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Message no. 1
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@****.INFORMATIK.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: Magic Circles (was: Speed is...)
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 13:21:02 +0100
Gurth wrote:
> Could you draw a ritual circle with just your finger on a clean concrete
> floor? I mean, you won't see anything that looks like a circle but you
> have gone through the motions to draw one...
Hm... I think you _would_ see the circle... some kind of red-is, at least
after about half a metre... ever scrapped over concrete floor?
*ouch*

Sascha
--
+---___---------+-----------------------------------------+------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst | The one does not |
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de |learn from history|
| \___ __/ | or | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| Westerstr. 20 / 26121 Oldenburg | through it again.|
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| *Wearing hats is just a way of live* | |
+---------------+-----------------------------------------+------------------+
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Message no. 2
From: "Andrew W. Ragland" <RAGLAN45@*****.MMC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Magic Circles (was: Speed is...)
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 11:45:28 -0500
> Could you draw a ritual circle with just your finger on a clean concrete
> floor? I mean, you won't see anything that looks like a circle but you
> have gone through the motions to draw one...

In certain NeoPagan covens, being able to do an entire ritual without tools
of any sort is a requirement for advancement to a higher degree. Magic
being amatter of symbolism and intent, I would say yes, that you could draw
a magic circle by just pointing your finger, but you'd have to be an
initiate to do it, probably 2nd or better.

Andrew W. Ragland |GTW @*+(-) s++/+ a c++(++++)| _ Prayer Division|
Product Support Manager |G+ y* L e* W !N o+ K w++$ M+| /\ /\ Ariadne, |
R & M BioMetrics / BioQuant|O+$ V+ +PS- +PE- Y+ PGP @*+ | |-*-| Strengthen |
raglan45@*****.mmc.edu |5@ X+ R+++>$ h---- b+++ r+++| \/_\/ The Web! |
The Internet is a Process, not a Thing
Message no. 3
From: "S.F. Eley" <gt6877c@*****.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Magic Circles (was: Speed is...)
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 14:13:17 -0400
Andrew Ragland writes:

> In certain NeoPagan covens, being able to do an entire ritual without tools
> of any sort is a requirement for advancement to a higher degree.

Really? How odd.. I thought it was something everyone did. I prefer to
use tools (or improvise tools) when available, of course, but when motivated
enough I find it easy to walk into the middle of a field and cast Circle on
the spot without any preparation. It's the motivation that matters, not
"degree" of any sort. In my uninitiated experience, of course. >8->


> Magic
> being amatter of symbolism and intent, I would say yes, that you could draw
> a magic circle by just pointing your finger, but you'd have to be an
> initiate to do it, probably 2nd or better.

I disagree (see above for justification), though you're right that it
should be more difficult. I'd suggest instead that ritual magic without the
proper ritual materials should have either a Target Number modifier of
(Force x 2) - Willpower, or require an extra Magic Test with target number
(Force x 2) - Willpower. That makes simple magic easy to do without tools,
and high-Force magic more or less tough depending on one's Willpower.


Blessings,

_TNX._

--
Stephen F. Eley (-) gt6877c@*****.gatech.edu )-( Student Pagan Community
http://wc62.residence.gatech.edu| Gray's Corollary to Clarke's Theorem:
My opinions are my opinions. | "Any technology that is distinguishable
Please don't blame anyone else. | from magic is insufficiently advanced."
Message no. 4
From: "Andrew W. Ragland" <RAGLAN45@*****.MMC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Magic Circles (was: Speed is...)
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 13:26:38 -0500
>> In certain NeoPagan covens, being able to do an entire ritual without tools
>> of any sort is a requirement for advancement to a higher degree.
>Really? How odd.. I thought it was something everyone did. I prefer to
>use tools (or improvise tools) when available, of course, but when motivated
>enough I find it easy to walk into the middle of a field and cast Circle on
>the spot without any preparation. It's the motivation that matters, not
>"degree" of any sort. In my uninitiated experience, of course. >8->

Well, bear in mind I'm speaking from a more old-line trad than you are in
all likelihood. The new wave of thought says that intent is enough, and
that if you have what it takes you can do it on your own. I come from an
older school of thought that says that first you learn to work with tools,
then you learn to work without tools. That's why I put my rules fix the way
I did. YMMV.

>proper ritual materials should have either a Target Number modifier of
>(Force x 2) - Willpower, or require an extra Magic Test with target number
>(Force x 2) - Willpower. That makes simple magic easy to do without tools,
>and high-Force magic more or less tough depending on one's Willpower.

I like the second better than the first, for the reason you stated. If
you're trying to do something that normally requires tools, you should have
to make a Willpower-based test. However, I'd also include Sorcery skill or
Magic Rating in there somehow. What about a Resisted test, Force*2 vs
Magic+Willpower, to determine if you can do the necessary work in your head?

Andrew W. Ragland |GTW @*+(-) s++/+ a c++(++++)| _ Prayer Division|
Product Support Manager |G+ y* L e* W !N o+ K w++$ M+| /\ /\ Ariadne, |
R & M BioMetrics / BioQuant|O+$ V+ +PS- +PE- Y+ PGP @*+ | |-*-| Strengthen |
raglan45@*****.mmc.edu |5@ X+ R+++>$ h---- b+++ r+++| \/_\/ The Web! |
The Internet is a Process, not a Thing

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