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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: SteveG@***********.co.za (Steve Garrard)
Subject: Magic Fingers, firearms, and you (Was Shiva-style Gun-fu) (A
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 14:17:59 +0200
Jonathan Hurley wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Timothy J. Lanza
> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 3:06 AM
> To: Shadowrun Discussion
> Subject: RE: Magic Fingers, firearms, and you (Was Shiva-style Gun-fu)
> (Attn: Paul Adam please comment :)
>
> At 02:30 AM 2/4/2004, Jonathan Hurley wrote:
> >Simrigs do *not* move the body, simrigs *record* the user's
> neuromuscular
> >activity to be recorded into a simchip. This chip is then
> played by someone
> >who has a datajack so they can experience the recording -
> there is a safety
> >lockup in most datajacks that *locks out* the body's
> reaction to sim (more
> >info in decking). The limited simrig employed by the smartgun system
> >presumably is used to feed the processor with the user's
> body positioning
> so
> >the processor can locate the gun. I'm expanding on the rules
> a bit to allow
> >the processor to feed back to the user an indication of how
> he should move.
> >(Ref, P 301 SR3).
> >***
>
> They do if no RAS override is present, or more precisely the
> body does what the simrig tells it to. It's the RAS override
> that prevents deckers,
> chipheads, and riggers from making movements, not the
> associated simsense device.
>
> Skillwires are simsense based devices, too. They wouldn't
> function at all if simsense couldn't drive the body.
>
> -----Reply Message-----
>
> When did skillwires come into play? For that matter, when did
> the subject of
> RAS overrides come into play? A simrig is primarily a
> *recording* device.
> While it can be used as a simdeck, simdecks *do* have RAS
> override. And
> that's a full 2 essence simrig. The limited (.1 essence) simrig that a
> normal smartlink has is "for body posture/gun position
> sensing" (p32 M&M). I
> don't think it is likely that the limited purpose simrig has
> the playback
> features of the full-on one. I also don't think a skillwire
> system moves
> the
> body either; it just tells the user what to do. The lack of
> muscle memory
> (important for physical activity) is one of the reasons
> skillwires don't
> allow access to pool dice.
>
> [snip]

Am I the only one here who's bothered by the thought of accidentally
shooting my best friend because I looked at him with my gun drawn and had
the "wrong" thought?

I don't believe that ANY smartlink system will involve moving your body for
you or even firing the gun for you when crossing a predetermined point in
space. It assists, whether by "suggesting" the correct movement to follow or
posture to assume, or simply by representing these things visually,
whichever you prefer/interpret. But a system that can fire my gun for me?
What if it malfunctions?

No corporation worth it's weight in spit is gonna try and sell that one to
anybody, with the possible exception of military, even if they COULD
convince the various governments to allow them to distribute in their
regions.


Slayer

"Beware my wrath, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
- Unknown Dragon



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Message no. 2
From: silvercat@***********.org (Jonathan Hurley)
Subject: Magic Fingers, firearms, and you (Was Shiva-style Gun-fu) (A
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 13:21:17 -0500
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Garrard
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 7:18 AM
To: 'Shadowrun Discussion'
Subject: RE: Magic Fingers, firearms, and you (Was Shiva-style Gun-fu) (A
ttn: Paul Adam please comment :)

Am I the only one here who's bothered by the thought of accidentally
shooting my best friend because I looked at him with my gun drawn and had
the "wrong" thought?

I don't believe that ANY smartlink system will involve moving your body for
you or even firing the gun for you when crossing a predetermined point in
space. It assists, whether by "suggesting" the correct movement to follow or
posture to assume, or simply by representing these things visually,
whichever you prefer/interpret. But a system that can fire my gun for me?
What if it malfunctions?

No corporation worth it's weight in spit is gonna try and sell that one to
anybody, with the possible exception of military, even if they COULD
convince the various governments to allow them to distribute in their
regions.

-----Reply Message-----

I glossed over the other nice thing about cybernetically controlled weapons
- they don't fire when you don't want them to. (Smartguns "don't waste
bullets" when walking fire, etc). The user always has both positive (the gun
fires when the user wants) and negative (the guns doesn't fire when the user
doesn't want) control over the gun. In the case of a smartgun-II system
using the designated point in the called-fire mode; remember, calling the
shot is a free action - the OODA loop for it is very short to begin with.
All reliable smartgun-II manufacturers probably only allow the designated
point to be valid for a second or two (after all, the target is presumably
moving) any only within a few degrees of the path of fire.

And the possibility of malfunction is another reason I wasn't happy about
the simsence rig having direct control of the user's muscles - I originally
just wanted a feedback that indicated how the user should move to bring the
gun on target.

Guns are already subject to unreliable firing mechanisms that could fire
when you don't want them to - it's called the trigger finger. Taking the
reflex arc out of the equation would probably make things SAFER. Clenching a
fist *is* a reflex action to several stimuli. That's one reason you don't
put your finger into the trigger guard until you are ready to fire. As of
2060, the smartgun system is a 10-15 year old system, well tested, and the
bugs are mostly out of the theory. And I seem to recall that smartguns have
an IFF ability in canon literature - I just don't recall where. (I mean that
if the user recognizes them as friendly by looking at them, it won't fire at
them even if a burst of autofire is outbound).

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These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.