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Message no. 1
From: Midn Daniel O Fredrikson <m992148@****.NAVY.MIL>
Subject: Magic Loss: Magicians vs Phy Adepts
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 23:03:58 -0500
Now I know that one of the greatest and most annoying debates is the
eternal one of phy adepts vs street sams. SO don;t worry, I'm not going
to start that one. (Applause accepted :) )

I was just pondering though the relative effect of magic loss of magicians
and phy adepts and the seemingly big (in my eyes) disparity.

If a magician loses magic, he can't cast as powerful as spells without
risking physical damage and he can't add as much magic pool to the spell.
Other than that, there really isn't that much damage done. Even if he
loses multiple points and gains a geas, he can get rid of that with
initiation. So magic loss hurts him, but he still can survive fairly
well. He can cast all of his spells, summon spirits (if he was ever able
to), interact with the astral plane (again, if he was ever able to). So
he keeps all of his abilities, though they might be lessened somewhat.

A phy adept get hammered really hard. If he loses magic, he loses
abilities, which can't be regained without initiation. They are gone for
good... Seems harsh (IHMO). The books always talk about burned-out
mages, but they never talk about burned out phy adepts.



Slightly related argument is the effects of bioaugmentation on the
relative magical abilities of the two. I can see why magician are
sensitive to the changes in the aura. After all, they are reaching out
with the aura into the astral plane, gathering enourmous amounts of
energy, and then using their aura to act as a conductor to fling this
energy at their enemies. Phy adepts aren't doing this (IHMO). They are
rarely in direct contact with the pure astral energies. Instead their
aura filters some amount of astral energy into their body and uses it to
augument their natural abilities, not create ones that are vastly new.
If you buy this interpretion of things, phy adepts bodys should be less
sensitive to slight organic changes. Also, phy adepts who magic is
focused on the working of their body. If the body changes, they should,
IMHO, be able to adjust to it.

Ok everyone, light your flamethrowers and go to it. (I'm wearing a
asbestos suit, do your worst) :)
Message no. 2
From: Ray & Tamara <macey@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Magic Loss: Magicians vs Phy Adepts
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 16:47:21 +1000
> If a magician loses magic, he can't cast as powerful as spells without
<snip> but.....
> he keeps all of his abilities, though they might be lessened somewhat.
>
> A phy adept get hammered really hard. If he loses magic, he loses
> abilities, which can't be regained without initiation. They are gone for
> good... Seems harsh (IHMO). The books always talk about burned-out
> mages, but they never talk about burned out phy adepts.

My wife Tamara was sitting here reading this, and her recommendation was
that if the physad loses a point or more of magic, they don't lose the
power. It just means that the physad can only use the new amount of magic
points for powers at any one time, and must spend time changing the
currently active powers. She plays a physad that started with this
ability, but I don't see why you couldn't use it to cover magic loss.

e.g. A physad has 6 magic points with the corresponding amount of powers.
Say she loses a point and now has 5 magic points. She still has 6 points
of powers though, but can only use 5 at any one time. She has to meditate
or whatever to change the currently active powers.

Also, if you want to lessen the effect of magic loss, do away with the Geas
requirement for physads (or doesn't that count for them normally, I can't
remember?).

Whether or not you use these rules, another idea Tamara suggested is that
if you wanted to allow normal physads access to extra powers, then you
could allow them to buy a new power that lets them have more powers than
magic points, and swap them around as per above. This idea was only just
suggested to me, so I have no idea how it would work out in a game.

Bye,

Ray
Message no. 3
From: Justin Pinnow <jpinnow@*****.EDU>
Subject: Re: Magic Loss: Magicians vs Phy Adepts
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 07:53:26 -0500
Midn Daniel O Fredrikson wrote:

> Now I know that one of the greatest and most annoying debates is the
> eternal one of phy adepts vs street sams. SO don;t worry, I'm not going
> to start that one. (Applause accepted :) )

Good, 'cause I was greasing my flamethrower when I saw the subject. ;)

> I was just pondering though the relative effect of magic loss of magicians
> and phy adepts and the seemingly big (in my eyes) disparity.

Okay.

> If a magician loses magic, he can't cast as powerful as spells without
> risking physical damage and he can't add as much magic pool to the spell.
> Other than that, there really isn't that much damage done. Even if he
> loses multiple points and gains a geas, he can get rid of that with
> initiation. So magic loss hurts him, but he still can survive fairly
> well. He can cast all of his spells, summon spirits (if he was ever able
> to), interact with the astral plane (again, if he was ever able to). So
> he keeps all of his abilities, though they might be lessened somewhat.

> A phy adept get hammered really hard. If he loses magic, he loses
> abilities, which can't be regained without initiation. They are gone for
> good... Seems harsh (IHMO). The books always talk about burned-out
> mages, but they never talk about burned out phy adepts.

Okay, here's my take on it. I don't see either as getting hitting
harder than the other. Why not? Well, they both lose a magic point
worth of ability per incident. They both have to initiate in order to
gain a magic point. They both take geasa according to how many points
they have lost. They both can remove these gease thru initiation. They
both can regain their lost abilities when they regain their magic point.

Thus, they get hit equally hard in my opinion. If you think it hits the
physad harder than the mage, you are coming down to differences in
class, not the system for loss of magic. In other words, if that's how
you feel, you should look at the balancing of the two classes, not the
system for losing magic points.

<Snip of the part I don't want to deal with> ;)

Justin :)
--
_____________________________________________________________________________
Justin Pinnow
jpinnow@*****.edu
Message no. 4
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Magic Loss: Magicians vs Phy Adepts
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 08:57:50 +1100
> I was just pondering though the relative effect of magic loss of magicians
> and phy adepts and the seemingly big (in my eyes) disparity.

Why, hell yeah!

> If a magician loses magic, he can't cast as powerful as spells without
> risking physical damage and he can't add as much magic pool to the spell.

Not even the magic pool; that's dependent on Sorcery. And Physical
Drain's not that much of a problem. "Oh look, I took a Moderate Physical
Drain. That means I can Treat it away in 30 seconds instead of having a
horrible headache (and +2 TNs) for six hours [or whatever]"

Gee, what a hardship. Just about all my character's spells cause her
physical drain, and she likes it that way...

> Ok everyone, light your flamethrowers and go to it. (I'm wearing a
> asbestos suit, do your worst) :)

I think it's a question of game balance. Mages tend to be [GENERALLY!!!]
pretty weak physically, compared with Sammies and PAs. Therefore, if
they take Bio/Cyber augmentation, it won't be excessive.. If a PA takes
Bio/Cyber, he's adding artificial augmentation to something he can (and
probably has) pump by magic. Can make for a really really rude PA - all
the benefits of a sammie, plus the opportunity for continual advancement
of a PA.



Lady Jestyr

-----------------------------------------------
A titanic intellect in a world full of icebergs
-----------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503/
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
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Message no. 5
From: "Q (not from Star Trek)" <Scott.E.Meyer@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: Magic Loss: Magicians vs Phy Adepts
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 18:21:41 -0600
On Tue, 25 Mar 1997, Lady Jestyr wrote:

> > I was just pondering though the relative effect of magic loss of magicians
> > and phy adepts and the seemingly big (in my eyes) disparity.
>
> Why, hell yeah!
>
> > If a magician loses magic, he can't cast as powerful as spells without
> > risking physical damage and he can't add as much magic pool to the spell.
>
> Not even the magic pool; that's dependent on Sorcery.

Well, not necessarily. The magic pool is limited by the magic attribute
in that the number of dice from the magic pool cannot exceed the
magician's magic rating. Therefore, a cybered or bioed magician still
won't be that powerful, regardless of how much sorcery skill he has. I
think that's a fair enough trade off.

-Q

---------------------------------------
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human
stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
-Albert Einstein

Scott "Q" Meyer
Scott.E.Meyer@*******.edu
http://johnh.wheaton.edu/~smeyer
Message no. 6
From: Ray & Tamara <macey@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Magic Loss: Magicians vs Phy Adepts
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 12:02:39 +1000
> > If a magician loses magic, he can't cast as powerful as spells without
> > risking physical damage and he can't add as much magic pool to the
spell.
>
> Not even the magic pool; that's dependent on Sorcery.

The total amount of magic pool is dependant on Sorcery, but the amount you
can use on one spell equals your magic rating.

Ray
Message no. 7
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Magic Loss: Magicians vs Phy Adepts
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:18:16 +1100
> > > risking physical damage and he can't add as much magic pool to the spell.
> >
> > Not even the magic pool; that's dependent on Sorcery.
>
> Well, not necessarily. The magic pool is limited by the magic attribute
> in that the number of dice from the magic pool cannot exceed the
> magician's magic rating. Therefore, a cybered or bioed magician still
> won't be that powerful, regardless of how much sorcery skill he has. I
> think that's a fair enough trade off.

Doh! We haven't been using that rule - can you give me a reference?

Lady Jestyr

-----------------------------------------------
A titanic intellect in a world full of icebergs
-----------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503/
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-----------------------------------------------
Now a Geocities Times Square Community Leader!
-----------------------------------------------
Message no. 8
From: Ray & Tamara <macey@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Magic Loss: Magicians vs Phy Adepts
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:56:59 +1000
> > Well, not necessarily. The magic pool is limited by the magic
attribute
> > in that the number of dice from the magic pool cannot exceed the
> > magician's magic rating. Therefore, a cybered or bioed magician still
> > won't be that powerful, regardless of how much sorcery skill he has. I
> > think that's a fair enough trade off.
>
> Doh! We haven't been using that rule - can you give me a reference?
>
> Lady Jestyr

Page 84 SRII. Under Magic Pool "The maximum number of Magic Pool dice that
a character can add to a Magic Success Test is equal to his Magic
Attribute".

Ray
Message no. 9
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Magic Loss: Magicians vs Phy Adepts
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:24:19 +0100
Lady Jestyr said on 16:18/25 Mar 97...

> > Well, not necessarily. The magic pool is limited by the magic attribute
> > in that the number of dice from the magic pool cannot exceed the
> > magician's magic rating. Therefore, a cybered or bioed magician still
> > won't be that powerful, regardless of how much sorcery skill he has. I
> > think that's a fair enough trade off.
>
> Doh! We haven't been using that rule - can you give me a reference?

SRII page 85, the fourth paragraph under Magic Pool.

--
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Message no. 10
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: Magic Loss: Magicians vs Phy Adepts
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:50:24 +0000
On 24 Mar 97 at 18:21, Q (not from Star Trek) wrote:
[snip]
> > Not even the magic pool; that's dependent on Sorcery.
> Well, not necessarily. The magic pool is limited by the magic attribute
> in that the number of dice from the magic pool cannot exceed the
> magician's magic rating. Therefore, a cybered or bioed magician still
> won't be that powerful, regardless of how much sorcery skill he has. I
> think that's a fair enough trade off.

Hm, maybe I just understand you wrong, but your _Magic_Pool_ isn't
limited by your Magic Attribute. The number of dice from the Pool you
can use in a single test is limited by your Magic Attribute, though.
See SRII, p. 85.

Sascha
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Message no. 11
From: Chris Maxfield <cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: Magic Loss: Magicians vs Phy Adepts
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 01:07:42 +1000
At 08:57 25/03/97 +1100, Lady Jestyr wrote:
> Midn Daniel O Fredrikson wrote:
>> I was just pondering though the relative effect of magic loss of magicians
>> and phy adepts and the seemingly big (in my eyes) disparity.
>
>Why, hell yeah!
>
>> If a magician loses magic, he can't cast as powerful as spells without
>> risking physical damage and he can't add as much magic pool to the spell.
>
>Not even the magic pool; that's dependent on Sorcery. And Physical
>Drain's not that much of a problem. "Oh look, I took a Moderate Physical
>Drain. That means I can Treat it away in 30 seconds instead of having a
>horrible headache (and +2 TNs) for six hours [or whatever]"
>
>Gee, what a hardship. Just about all my character's spells cause her
>physical drain, and she likes it that way...

<grin> Which is why we have a house rule declaring that physical drain
from spell casting cannot be healed by magic:-) It knocks the physical vs.
stun drain preference debate on the head. The look in the eyes of the spell
casters when physical drain is mentioned is a beautiful sight for any GM.

Back to the point of this thread. When a physad loses a point of
magic, one ability is blown away but the rest remain untouched. When a
magician (narrow definition) loses a magic point the affect tends to cut
across all abilities at least lightly though none severely:
a. the magician's spell's and spirit's max force are reduced to avoid
physical drain;
b. the maximum magic pool boost to spells is reduced;
c. the magician's ability to banish spirits is less effective;
d. the magician's ability to command uncontrolled spirits is reduced;
e. the magician's area-effect spells are reduced in area;
f. the magician's spell-casting becomes more obvious;
g. ritual magic maximum sustaining time is reduced if the team leader has
lost the magic point;
h. the astrally projecting magician's ability to pass astral barriers is
reduced;
i. an initiates Masking effectiveness is reduced;
j. the magician's aura reading ability is reduced;
k. astral quests are more dangerous;
l. the magician's risk of foci addiction increases.
... and there are probably more.

In summary, the physad suffers a deep but narrow penalty from magic loss
while the magician suffers broad and shallow penalties from magic loss. I
think they balance out.


Chris

_______________________________________________________________
Chris Maxfield We are restless because of incessant
<cmaxfiel@****.org.au> change, but we would be frightened if
Canberra, Australia change were stopped.
Message no. 12
From: Benjamin Pflugmann
Subject: Re: Magic Loss: Magicians vs Phy Adepts
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:26:53 +0100
Hello!

[...]

> a. the magician's spell's and spirit's max force are reduced to avoid
> physical drain;
> b. the maximum magic pool boost to spells is reduced;
> c. the magician's ability to banish spirits is less effective;
> d. the magician's ability to command uncontrolled spirits is reduced;
> e. the magician's area-effect spells are reduced in area;
> f. the magician's spell-casting becomes more obvious;
> g. ritual magic maximum sustaining time is reduced if the team leader has
> lost the magic point;
> h. the astrally projecting magician's ability to pass astral barriers is
> reduced;
> i. an initiates Masking effectiveness is reduced;
> j. the magician's aura reading ability is reduced;
> k. astral quests are more dangerous;
> l. the magician's risk of foci addiction increases.

Could some be so kind to explain the last point? Never heard of it.

> ... and there are probably more.
>


Thank You,

Benjamin.


--
pfb08188@*****.physik.uni-regensburg.de
benjamin@*****.leibniz.in-passau.de
Message no. 13
From: Gweedo The Killer Pimp <yawas@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Magic Loss: Magicians vs Phy Adepts
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 09:40:43 EST
On Wed, 26 Mar 1997 01:07:42 +1000 Chris Maxfield <cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU>
writes:
> <grin> Which is why we have a house rule...<snip>
--------
Especially now that a magician has to give a point of his magic rating to
give an ally life, it seems that magicians can lose magic points easier
than physads. I would guess even with all of the shallow cuts that a
magician takes he can get some of them back by getting a focus, or foci.
As far as I know it there are no foci to get physad powers back.

I like that house rule that you have. It would definately put a damper
on the mage in our group that casts force 10 hellblasts and nothing but.


Now using Gweedo the Killer Pimp ver. 3.1 sporting such features as:
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Message no. 14
From: Benjamin Pflugmann
Subject: Re: Magic Loss: Magicians vs Phy Adepts
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:01:18 +0100
Hello!

> On Wed, 26 Mar 1997 01:07:42 +1000 Chris Maxfield <cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU>
> writes:
> > <grin> Which is why we have a house rule...<snip>
> --------
> Especially now that a magician has to give a point of his magic rating to
> give an ally life, it seems that magicians can lose magic points easier
> than physads. I would guess even with all of the shallow cuts that a
> magician takes he can get some of them back by getting a focus, or foci.
> As far as I know it there are no foci to get physad powers back.
>
> I like that house rule that you have. It would definately put a damper
> on the mage in our group that casts force 10 hellblasts and nothing but.

Huh? How? Is he an initiate or has a focus? Ever thought about that nice
effect when a focus gets attact by an astral projected living?

>
>
> Now using Gweedo the Killer Pimp ver. 3.1 sporting such features as:
> A poleyester leisure suit, platform shoes, a pink cadillac, fuzzy dice,
> and a gold tooth!
>

Bye,

Benjamin.

--
pfb08188@*****.physik.uni-regensburg.de
benjamin@*****.leibniz.in-passau.de
Message no. 15
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Magic Loss: Magicians vs Phy Adepts
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:19:19 -0500
Benjamin said:
>> l. the magician's risk of foci addiction increases.
>
>Could some be so kind to explain the last point? Never heard of it.


Foci addiction occurs when a mage becomes overdependant on his
foci. Foci are quite useful in all manner of spellcasting, making it
easier for the mage to conjure greater effects. But, they are meant to
be used as TOOLS only, not a crutch.
When a mage gets used to that 'high' of using his foci, it becomes
harder for him not to. Mages who have stepped onto the 'Burnout' road,
come to rely on foci to allow them perform magickal feats the way they
used to.
If he continues the way of the burnout, he comes to rely on his
foci more and more, maybe up to the point where he can't perform the
'simplest' of effects with one to back him up.
I'm not trying to scare any mage players out there from playing
their characters, but mages should realize their foci are tools only.
the real power comes from within themselves [there, hope I didn't
confuse the point :-]
It would make a great character story if, say a PC or NPC mage
slowly became addicted to his foci, and what lengths he would go to to
satisfy his craving ["We seek the GRAIL!<evil grin>]. And would his PC
friends stand by and watch, or try to help him kick the habit
[potentially a dangerous task, indeed]
Message no. 16
From: Gweedo The Killer Pimp <yawas@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Magic Loss: Magicians vs Phy Adepts
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:40:43 EST
On Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:01:18 +0100 Benjamin Pflugmann
<benjamin.pflugmann@*****.PHYSIK.UNI-REGENSBURG.DE> writes:
>> I like that house rule that you have. It would definately put a
>damper
>> on the mage in our group that casts force 10 hellblasts and nothing
>but.
>
>Huh? How? Is he an initiate or has a focus? Ever thought about that
>nice
>effect when a focus gets attact by an astral projected living?
-----
He's the fraggin focus man. Whenever I run a game and he has that
character, I give him a +1 Target Modifer after he uses the focus more
than 10 times during one session.

I can't make out your last sentence please expleain :-)


Now using Gweedo the Killer Pimp ver. 3.1 sporting such features as:
A poleyester leisure suit, platform shoes, a pink cadillac, fuzzy dice,
and a gold tooth!
Message no. 17
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Magic Loss: Magicians vs Phy Adepts
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:57:17 -0500
>> <grin> Which is why we have a house rule...<snip>
>magician takes he can get some of them back by getting a focus, or foci.
>As far as I know it there are no foci to get physad powers back.

Well, Foci bring their own problems. All in all, I would say that the rules
are fairly balanced (except that I feel the Phys ads are too penalized to start)

>I like that house rule that you have. It would definately put a damper
>on the mage in our group that casts force 10 hellblasts and nothing but.

I considered a rule like that, but dropped. For 1, most of my players use
very LOW force spells....Having 30 different spells is more versitile and
useful to them. THey'll only take one or tow High force spells, usually
only the resisted spells.

And as for hellblast 10...HOW? Let's assume a strong guy: Grade 2,
Willpower 7, Sorcery 7

You didn't mention any force modifiers, and besides, you did say it was
physical damage, so we'll use the Force 10. Drain is F/2+6 D. This becomes
11 D Physical.
Assuming at that force we need no Magic Pool, so we can use it all for Drain
resistance: Roll 14 die.

I haven't done Pascal Numbers for a while, so my formula may be a bit
screwed up, so I won't try and do it "correctly". However, realizing the
odds of rolling an 11 on one die are 1 in 9. Thus we see that the odds are
that out of 14 die, you won't get two 11's.

SO your guy can do it a few times, but sooner or later his luck runs out and
BOOM, he's dead.

Besides, HellBlast sucks....so much accessory damage.

-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 18
From: Benjamin Pflugmann
Subject: Re: Magic Loss: Magicians vs Phy Adepts
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:54:50 +0100
>
> On Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:01:18 +0100 Benjamin Pflugmann
> <benjamin.pflugmann@*****.PHYSIK.UNI-REGENSBURG.DE> writes:
> >> I like that house rule that you have. It would definately put a
> >damper
> >> on the mage in our group that casts force 10 hellblasts and nothing
> >but.
> >
> >Huh? How? Is he an initiate or has a focus? Ever thought about that
> >nice
> >effect when a focus gets attact by an astral projected living?
> -----
> He's the fraggin focus man. Whenever I run a game and he has that
> character, I give him a +1 Target Modifer after he uses the focus more
> than 10 times during one session.

Sigh! I want so much money, too :-)

>
> I can't make out your last sentence please expleain :-)
>

Excuse me, if I do not use the right words, but am a german and only have
the german version of the books, so I have to guess, what are the
translations for the specific terms.

A being that is only in the astral space cannot attack another being that is
not active in the astral space (with astral sight, astral projection, ...).
There is no connection between astral space and physical space to do so. But
any active focus makes such a connection.

First, an astral character can attack that active focus and detroy it with
any (physical? - I do not have the Grimoire by hand) spell. The NT is the
focus force. If the attack is successful, the focus gets destroyed! No nice
focus any more :-)

Second, one can cast an (physical?) area spell on that focus and the effect
hits all livings in that area (in aspect of sight line).

No - I do not like destroying foci for fun, but it should make any magician
think twice before activating his foci. (For my character, an elf which can
only cast spells [a sorcerer?], this is a special problem, because he cannot
check the astral space for enemies [no astral sight], neither attack them).
Especially no magician should walk through the world with an activated
focus (this is like a bright torch in the astral space). And: Foci are VERY
expensive and therefore a thing that every thief like... and LONE STAR
surely thinks twice if this magic thing that this magician without SIN has,
really belongs to him - or is it stolen? Better confiscate it, until the
real owner has been found :-)

Enough for this. I think, You got the idea?

>
> Now using Gweedo the Killer Pimp ver. 3.1 sporting such features as:
> A poleyester leisure suit, platform shoes, a pink cadillac, fuzzy dice,
> and a gold tooth!
>

Bye,

Benjamin.

--
pfb08188@*****.physik.uni-regensburg.de
benjamin@*****.leibniz.in-passau.de
Message no. 19
From: Tim P Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Magic Loss: Magicians vs Phy Adepts
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:40:20 EST
On Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:57:17 -0500 Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU> writes:
>>> <grin> Which is why we have a house rule...<snip>
>>magician takes he can get some of them back by getting a focus, or
foci.
>>As far as I know it there are no foci to get physad powers back.
>
>Well, Foci bring their own problems. All in all, I would say that the
rules
>are fairly balanced (except that I feel the Phys ads are too penalized
to start)
>
>>I like that house rule that you have. It would definitely put a damper
>>on the mage in our group that casts force 10 hellblasts and nothing
but.
>
>I considered a rule like that, but dropped. For 1, most of my players
use
>very LOW force spells....Having 30 different spells is more versatile
and
>useful to them. THey'll only take one or tow High force spells, usually
>only the resisted spells.

Yup... there are lots of NON-combat spells that are VERY effective at
relatively low forces, and adding a half dozen or so spells to your
repertoire gives you a definite edge, as opposed to the "I'll take a
force 50 HellBlast spell and...uh.. that's it." type of character.

[snip drain comments]

Don't forget to include some Centering versus drain.

but basically that changes little (the centering thing) and it ends up
like you said below:

>SO your guy can do it a few times, but sooner or later his luck runs
>out and BOOM, he's dead.


>Besides, HellBlast sucks....so much accessory damage.

And... you can get a much BIGGER bang out of something like FlameBomb
(none of that annoying, T# = opponent's Body stuff) for even MORE
accessory damage!! Or even FlameThrower... Hell I once seared a hole
clean through a Dzoo-No-Qua (you know, those big vampire trolls with
MAGIC RESISTANCE) with it at force 6 --yes I did pump all the pool dice
into the success test, after all I had to get enough successes to
overcome the resistance...

~Tim (reminiscing)
Message no. 20
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Magic Loss: Magicians vs Phy Adepts
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:06:49 +1100
> Page 84 SRII. Under Magic Pool "The maximum number of Magic Pool dice that
> a character can add to a Magic Success Test is equal to his Magic
> Attribute".

Dang!

Oh well, looks like I'm going to have to get initiated again... *sigh*

Lady Jestyr

-----------------------------------------------
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Message no. 21
From: "ADAM B. TRELOAR" <s777317@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Magic Loss: Magicians vs Phy Adepts
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:26:39 +1000
> Page 84 SRII. Under Magic Pool "The maximum number of Magic Pool dice that
> a character can add to a Magic Success Test is equal to his Magic
> Attribute".

Is that magic rating or magic attribute? It makes one helluva difference
to us physical mages. Or shamans, in this case.

Guardian.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Any sufficiently advanced magic is indestinguishable from technology.
So there."
Adam Treloar aka Guardian
s777317@*****.student.gu.edu.au http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1900/
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 22
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Magic Loss: Magicians vs Phy Adepts
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 11:40:23 +0100
Benjamin Pflugmann said on 15:26/25 Mar 97...

> > l. the magician's risk of foci addiction increases.
>
> Could some be so kind to explain the last point? Never heard of it.

Carrying too many active foci around may cause a magician to get addicted
to those foci. It's explained in Awakenings on page 103, and can cause
Magic loss and force a geas onto the magician.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I'd tune into some friendly voices, talking 'bout stupid things.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 23
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Magic Loss: Magicians vs Phy Adepts
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 11:27:52 GMT
ADAM B. TRELOAR writes

> > Page 84 SRII. Under Magic Pool "The maximum number of Magic Pool dice that
> > a character can add to a Magic Success Test is equal to his Magic
> > Attribute".
>
> Is that magic rating or magic attribute? It makes one helluva difference
> to us physical mages. Or shamans, in this case.
>
I would assume magic rating in sorcery, thats how i have been doing
it anyhow. You get Geas for the point you put in physical adept so.
About the only things i can think of off hand that use your full
combined magic attribute are magic loss rolls and masking.

Eg spell radius would be based non 'spellcasting' attribute etc. I
ought to check again what awakenings says about this.

Mark

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