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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Jane van Roekel)
Subject: magic resistance tests
Date: Wed Aug 29 01:20:01 2001
Hi people,

A quick question about the spellcasting/target resisting process. In the
case of combat spells, do the targets make damage resistance tests as well
as spell resistance tests?

jane

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Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Damion Milliken)
Subject: magic resistance tests
Date: Wed Aug 29 09:45:01 2001
Jane van Roekel writes:

> A quick question about the spellcasting/target resisting process. In the
> case of combat spells, do the targets make damage resistance tests as well
> as spell resistance tests?

No, they only get the Spell Reistance Test (p 183 SR3). This is one of the
reasons spells are so dangerous - if you don't fully resist it, it takes
full effect, plus may be even nastier if the caster got many successes. The
only exception is Elemental Manipulation Spells, which are handled a little
differently. These do not get a Spell Resistance Test, but instead the
target may make normal Dodge and Damage Resistance Tests.

For example, Cynthia is casting a Manabolt at a Bug Spirit. The Manabolt is
Force 4, she has a Sorcery of 6, and allocates no dice from her Spell Pool.
The Bug's Willpower and situational modifiers make the TN 7. She chooses to
make the spell a Moderate Damage Level. Rolling, she gets 2 successes. The
Bug, rolling it's Willpower, gets 1 success. The Bug takes Moderate damage,
staged up with Cynthias 1 net success to Moderate damage :-).

Another example: Cynthia is casting a Manabolt at a ganger. The ganger's
Willpower is 3. There are no situational modifiers. Cynthia casts the same
Manabolt as above. She gets 4 successes. The ganger gets 2 on his Willpower
based Spell Resistance Test. Cynthia has 2 net successes, and so stages the
damage from Moderate to Serious.

Note that this makes Deadly Damage Level spells extremely effective. If they
take effect at all, even with a single success, the target takes Deadly
damage. Ouch! OTOH, the caster probably has to resist Deadly Drain, too.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
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Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Michael Choiniere)
Subject: magic resistance tests
Date: Wed Aug 29 10:55:01 2001
> Note that this makes Deadly Damage Level spells extremely effective. If
they
> take effect at all, even with a single success, the target takes Deadly
> damage. Ouch! OTOH, the caster probably has to resist Deadly Drain, too.
>


True dat, but if you're popping off a stun spell then the drain is alot more
managable. If you're feeling especially brutal you can always finish them
off while they're down....
Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Graht)
Subject: magic resistance tests
Date: Wed Aug 29 11:55:01 2001
At 11:41 PM 8/29/2001 +1000, Damion Milliken wrote:
>Jane van Roekel writes:
>
> > A quick question about the spellcasting/target resisting process. In the
> > case of combat spells, do the targets make damage resistance tests as well
> > as spell resistance tests?
>
>No, they only get the Spell Reistance Test (p 183 SR3). This is one of the
>reasons spells are so dangerous - if you don't fully resist it, it takes
>full effect, plus may be even nastier if the caster got many successes. The
>only exception is Elemental Manipulation Spells, which are handled a little
>differently. These do not get a Spell Resistance Test, but instead the
>target may make normal Dodge and Damage Resistance Tests.
>
>For example, Cynthia is casting a Manabolt at a Bug Spirit. The Manabolt is
>Force 4, she has a Sorcery of 6, and allocates no dice from her Spell Pool.
>The Bug's Willpower and situational modifiers make the TN 7. She chooses to
>make the spell a Moderate Damage Level. Rolling, she gets 2 successes. The
>Bug, rolling it's Willpower, gets 1 success. The Bug takes Moderate damage,
>staged up with Cynthias 1 net success to Moderate damage :-).

Please note however that if the bug had rolled 2 or more success the spell
would have absolutely no effect on the bug.

To Life,
-Graht
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader II
--
Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Jane van Roekel)
Subject: magic resistance tests
Date: Wed Aug 29 19:35:01 2001
>From: Graht <davidb@****.imcprint.com>
>
>At 11:41 PM 8/29/2001 +1000, Damion Milliken wrote:
>>
>>For example, Cynthia is casting a Manabolt at a Bug Spirit. The Manabolt
>>is
>>Force 4, she has a Sorcery of 6, and allocates no dice from her Spell
>>Pool.
>>The Bug's Willpower and situational modifiers make the TN 7. She chooses
>>to
>>make the spell a Moderate Damage Level. Rolling, she gets 2 successes. The
>>Bug, rolling it's Willpower, gets 1 success. The Bug takes Moderate
>>damage,
>>staged up with Cynthias 1 net success to Moderate damage :-).
>
>Please note however that if the bug had rolled 2 or more success the spell
>would have absolutely no effect on the bug.
>

Thanks guys.

Jane

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Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Fenris F-e-n-r-i-s)
Subject: magic resistance tests
Date: Wed Aug 29 19:45:01 2001
*snip*
>>Please note however that if the bug had rolled 2 or more success the spell
>>would have absolutely no effect on the bug.
>>
>
>Thanks guys.
>
>Jane
>

Isn't this all covered in Shadowrun:Third Edition?

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Message no. 7
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Graht)
Subject: magic resistance tests
Date: Thu Aug 30 09:50:01 2001
At 11:40 PM 8/29/2001 +0000, Fenris F-e-n-r-i-s wrote:

>*snip*
>>>Please note however that if the bug had rolled 2 or more success the spell
>>>would have absolutely no effect on the bug.
>>
>>Thanks guys.
>>
>>Jane
>
>Isn't this all covered in Shadowrun:Third Edition?

Yes it is. But Jane is a new player and the concepts of Shadowrun magic
are typically confusing to new players (took me a while to get used to it ;)

This list isn't just about sharing ideas. It's also about sharing
knowledge and experience. So when someone is new and/or confused about
something us old timers gracefully answer their question(s).

:)

To Life,
-Graht
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader II
--
Message no. 8
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Fenris F-e-n-r-i-s)
Subject: magic resistance tests
Date: Thu Aug 30 14:00:00 2001
>
>Yes it is. But Jane is a new player and the concepts of Shadowrun magic
>are typically confusing to new players (took me a while to get used to it
>;)
>
>This list isn't just about sharing ideas. It's also about sharing
>knowledge and experience. So when someone is new and/or confused about
>something us old timers gracefully answer their question(s).
>
>:)
>
>To Life,
>-Graht
>ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader II
>--

Speaking of which, why the frag aren't there any spells listed in Shadowrun:
Third Edition??? All it has is the mechanics of magic, but no actual
"spells".


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Message no. 9
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lars Wagner Hansen)
Subject: magic resistance tests
Date: Thu Aug 30 14:15:01 2001
From: "Fenris F-e-n-r-i-s" <kadeshaderow@*******.com>
> Speaking of which, why the frag aren't there any spells listed in Shadowrun:
> Third Edition??? All it has is the mechanics of magic, but no actual
> "spells".

Maybe you should check out pages 191-198. In my book there is no less than 126
spells, of which a few have more than one appliacátion, such as Increase
(Attribute).

Lars
--
Lars Wagner Hansen, Jagtvej 11, 4180 Sorø
l-hansen@*****.tele.dk http://home4.inet.tele.dk/l-hansen
--
SRGC v0.22 SR1 SR2++ SR3+++ h+ b+++ B--- UB++ IE+ RN LST W++ dk sa++ ma+
sh++ ad++++ ri mc rk-- m- (e-- o t-- d-) gm+ M- P-
--
Main Rule of Usenet: Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to
their level, then beat you with experience.
Message no. 10
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Fenris F-e-n-r-i-s)
Subject: magic resistance tests
Date: Thu Aug 30 14:35:01 2001
>
>Maybe you should check out pages 191-198. In my book there is no less than
>126
>spells, of which a few have more than one appliacátion, such as Increase
>(Attribute).
>
>Lars
>--
>

WHOOPS!!!
Sorry, I haven't read through the entire book yet, I'm usually a Street
Samurai/Rigger/Anything that doesn't have to do with Decking and Magic.
I had skimmed through that part, I always thought it was part of the Matrix
section, my mistake, heheh.

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Message no. 11
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Jane VR)
Subject: magic resistance tests
Date: Thu Aug 30 19:25:01 2001
>From: "Fenris F-e-n-r-i-s" <kadeshaderow@*******.com>

>>
>
>Isn't this all covered in Shadowrun:Third Edition?
>

Yes, it is, but I wanted to check that I was reading it right.

Halfway through 2nd session we worked out we had been doing ranged combat
all wrong, and melee combat still seems weird to me, but my players all
agree that that is the right way. So I thought I'd check on the magic stuff
in advance (No one has cast a spell yet, although lots of spirits get
summoned).

Jane

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Message no. 12
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Valeu John EMFA)
Subject: magic resistance tests
Date: Fri Aug 31 01:40:00 2001
>Halfway through 2nd session we worked out we had been doing ranged combat
>all wrong, and melee combat still seems weird to me, but my players all
>agree that that is the right way. So I thought I'd check on the magic stuff

>in advance (No one has cast a spell yet, although lots of spirits get
>summoned).

I'm lucky on that point too. I also fudged combat, making easier on
everyone.
At first, EVERYONE, including NPCs, fired in SS (one shot = one action) just
to keep it simple and get everyone used to the system. Recently, I started
allowing SA shots.
Maybe in a couple of sessions, we'll start using Burst (woooo, ahhhhh!)
I call this a learning curve. Brings me back into the game slowly and helps
the others get thier feet wet.

The mage only shows up on occasion and we've only had one session of vehicle
combat (what a mess. Literally a bunch of Twisted Metal :) ) So those rules
are fine. And for once I understand the spell system (after 5 years of
playing too).

As for summoning sprits.... It still doesn't seem clear to me HOW a shaman
summons a spirit of the land. It tells how a mage summons an elemental, but
what does a shaman do, Snap his fingers?
Message no. 13
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Damian Sharp)
Subject: magic resistance tests
Date: Fri Aug 31 01:55:01 2001
On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, Valeu John EMFA wrote:

> As for summoning sprits.... It still doesn't seem clear to me HOW a shaman
> summons a spirit of the land. It tells how a mage summons an elemental, but
> what does a shaman do, Snap his fingers?

Essentially, yes. It's just an action for the shaman to summon the spirit,
but it can't leave its domain, and the shaman can only have 1 'actively
controlled' spirit at a time.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Damian Sharp of Real Life, College Graduate |
| Zauviir Seldszar of Wildlands, Scribe of House Maritym |
| Xavier Kindric of Shandlin's Ferry, member of Valindar |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
'You are cheese. American now, Swiss when I am done.'
Message no. 14
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Valeu John EMFA)
Subject: magic resistance tests
Date: Fri Aug 31 12:55:01 2001
>> As for summoning sprits.... It still doesn't seem clear to me HOW a
shaman
>> summons a spirit of the land. It tells how a mage summons an elemental,
but
>> what does a shaman do, Snap his fingers?

>Essentially, yes. It's just an action for the shaman to summon the spirit,
>but it can't leave its domain, and the shaman can only have 1 'actively
>controlled' spirit at a time.

ok. But is it a simple or Complex action? And how do you determine how
many services the spirit gives to the shaman?

EMFA John Valeu
-AKA- TimeKeeper
"I'm making my peace with God. Is that a free, simple or complex action?"
--MOTO 42
Message no. 15
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Caric)
Subject: magic resistance tests
Date: Fri Aug 31 15:10:01 2001
John inquired:

> >> As for summoning sprits.... It still doesn't seem clear to me HOW a
> shaman
> >> summons a spirit of the land. It tells how a mage summons an
elemental,
> but
> >> what does a shaman do, Snap his fingers?
>
> >Essentially, yes. It's just an action for the shaman to summon the
spirit,
> >but it can't leave its domain, and the shaman can only have 1 'actively
> >controlled' spirit at a time.
>
> ok. But is it a simple or Complex action? And how do you determine how
> many services the spirit gives to the shaman?

It's an exclusive complex action. Basically the shaman cannot be sustaining
any spells while trying to summon the spirit. Successes equal services as
far as that goes. Remember though that once a service has been used the
spirit can no longer "go remote."

Caric-the-DAWG-shaman

;)
Message no. 16
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Caric)
Subject: magic resistance tests
Date: Fri Aug 31 15:15:01 2001
John inquired:

> >Halfway through 2nd session we worked out we had been doing ranged combat
> >all wrong, and melee combat still seems weird to me, but my players all
> >agree that that is the right way. So I thought I'd check on the magic
stuff
>
> >in advance (No one has cast a spell yet, although lots of spirits get
> >summoned).

hmmm...that's cool. Most people I talk to say that their group hardly ever
uses spirits. Elementals always get their day in the sun, but spirits have
been getting the shaft it seems in many games. Glad to hear someone else
likes to use them besides myself.

> I'm lucky on that point too. I also fudged combat, making easier on
> everyone.
> At first, EVERYONE, including NPCs, fired in SS (one shot = one action)
just
> to keep it simple and get everyone used to the system. Recently, I
started
> allowing SA shots.
> Maybe in a couple of sessions, we'll start using Burst (woooo, ahhhhh!)
> I call this a learning curve. Brings me back into the game slowly and
helps
> the others get thier feet wet.
>
> The mage only shows up on occasion and we've only had one session of
vehicle
> combat (what a mess. Literally a bunch of Twisted Metal :) ) So those
rules
> are fine. And for once I understand the spell system (after 5 years of
> playing too).
>
> As for summoning sprits.... It still doesn't seem clear to me HOW a
shaman
> summons a spirit of the land. It tells how a mage summons an elemental,
but
> what does a shaman do, Snap his fingers?

Well, first you do a little dance, then you make a little love and the next
thing you know you're gettin' down with spirit.

~Caric
Message no. 17
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Chris Maxfield)
Subject: magic resistance tests
Date: Sat Sep 1 01:55:01 2001
--=====================_3372411==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Records show that at 05:10 on Saturday 1/09/01, Caric scribbled:
>hmmm...that's cool. Most people I talk to say that their group hardly ever
>uses spirits. Elementals always get their day in the sun, but spirits have
>been getting the shaft it seems in many games. Glad to hear someone else
>likes to use them besides myself.

Really? In our games the shamans always conjure a spirit when entering a
new domain. It only takes a couple of seconds, costs nothing, does not have
to be noticeable, and nature spirits are just so incredibility useful in so
many ways; particularly the paranormal powers of confusion, accident,
search and movement, and the endless possibilities of physical services.

Elementals are infrequently used in our games because they are so damned
expensive and really don't do much more physical damage than a nature
spirit, i.e. a nature spirit can materialize and attack a target(s) in
melee as a physical service. At force 5 and above very few people can stand
up to a physical melee attack from a nature spirit.

Chris

--=====================_3372411==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
<font size=3>Records show that at 05:10 on Saturday 1/09/01, Caric
scribbled:<br>
&gt;hmmm...that's cool.&nbsp; Most people I talk to say that their group
hardly ever<br>
&gt;uses spirits.&nbsp; Elementals always get their day in the sun, but
spirits have<br>
&gt;been getting the shaft it seems in many games.&nbsp; Glad to hear
someone else<br>
&gt;likes to use them besides myself.<br><br>
Really? In our games the shamans always conjure a spirit when entering a
new domain. It only takes a couple of seconds, costs nothing, does not
have to be noticeable, and nature spirits are just so incredibility
useful in so many ways; particularly the paranormal powers of confusion,
accident, search and movement, and the endless possibilities of physical
services.<br><br>
Elementals are infrequently used in our games because they are so damned
expensive and really don't do much more physical damage than a nature
spirit, i.e. a nature spirit can materialize and attack a target(s) in
melee as a physical service. At force 5 and above very few people can
stand up to a physical melee attack from a nature spirit.<br><br>
Chris<br>
</font></html>

--=====================_3372411==_.ALT--
Message no. 18
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Keith Duthie)
Subject: magic resistance tests
Date: Sat Sep 1 10:30:01 2001
On Sat, 1 Sep 2001, Chris Maxfield wrote:

> Elementals are infrequently used in our games because they are so damned
> expensive and really don't do much more physical damage than a nature
> spirit, i.e. a nature spirit can materialize and attack a target(s) in
> melee as a physical service. At force 5 and above very few people can stand
> up to a physical melee attack from a nature spirit.

Sadly, you can only have one spirit in a domain. So if you're up against
some real nasties you're better off with elementals - at least then you
can have a group of them mob an opponent.

--
Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change ready.
http://users.albatross.co.nz/~psycho/ O- -><-
Message no. 19
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Chris Maxfield)
Subject: magic resistance tests
Date: Sat Sep 1 10:50:01 2001
--=====================_35494268==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Records show that at 00:26 on Sunday 2/09/01, Keith Duthie scribbled:
>Sadly, you can only have one spirit in a domain. So if you're up against
>some real nasties you're better off with elementals - at least then you
>can have a group of them mob an opponent.

Very true - if you can afford the high cost of having and using group of
elementals in this way.

Chris

--=====================_35494268==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
<font size=3>Records show that at 00:26 on Sunday 2/09/01, Keith Duthie
scribbled:<br>
&gt;Sadly, you can only have one spirit in a domain. So if you're up
against<br>
&gt;some real nasties you're better off with elementals - at least then
you<br>
&gt;can have a group of them mob an opponent.<br><br>
Very true - if you can afford the high cost of having and using group of
elementals in this way.<br><br>
Chris<br>
</font></html>

--=====================_35494268==_.ALT--
Message no. 20
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Jason Spadaro)
Subject: magic resistance tests
Date: Sun Sep 2 09:55:00 2001
While we're talking about spirits....

One of my players decided on playing an aspected shaman; a conjurer, so
he started off using the points given at character gen. to buy some city
spirits. My question is, how does domain affect those spirits? I mean,
don't services go away when the shaman leaves the spirit's domain?
Anyhow, up till now I've just let him use services if he's in the right
domain, even if he's left it before.

Also, I thought you could have spirits up to your charisma.

-Jason
Message no. 21
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Chris Maxfield)
Subject: magic resistance tests
Date: Sun Sep 2 10:25:01 2001
Records show that at 23:58 on Sunday 2/09/01, Jason Spadaro scribbled:
>One of my players decided on playing an aspected shaman; a conjurer, so
>he started off using the points given at character gen. to buy some city
>spirits. My question is, how does domain affect those spirits? I mean,

I don't understand what you mean by "buy city spirits with chargen points"?
A shaman just conjures spirits up, taking a couple of seconds, as required.
Anyway, conjured nature spirits are only around for a short while,
vanishing at the next sunrise or sunset, whichever is first. :-)

>don't services go away when the shaman leaves the spirit's domain?

Yep. Gone. Poof. No more. The shaman has no influence over the spirit
though it still occupies the shaman's slot for a spirit in that domain. ;-)

>Anyhow, up till now I've just let him use services if he's in the right
>domain, even if he's left it before.

As soon as the shaman leaves a domain, he forfeits all remaining services
with his spirit left in the domain, though the spirit left continues
fulfilling the last request until it is finished or sunrise/sunset happens,
whichever occurs first (SR3, p184). At that point the spirit departs. The
shaman can not issue requests to the spirit in the domain that he has left,
even if he returns to that domain.

>Also, I thought you could have spirits up to your charisma.

That's the restriction for hermetic mages' elementals, and for watchers for
all magicians. The restriction for shamans and their nature spirits is
one-spirit-per-domain. :-)

Chris
Message no. 22
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Chris Shaffer)
Subject: magic resistance tests
Date: Sun Sep 2 11:00:01 2001
>One of my players decided on playing an aspected shaman; a conjurer, so
>he started off using the points given at character gen. to buy some city
>spirits. My question is, how does domain affect those spirits? I mean,
>don't services go away when the shaman leaves the spirit's domain?
>Anyhow, up till now I've just let him use services if he's in the right
>domain, even if he's left it before.

All remaining services are lost when the shaman leaves the spirit's
domain. It will continue performing the last service ordered. After he
leaves the domain, he cannot issue new orders to the spirit, even if he
returns to the spirit's domain. Also, he can only have one spirit per
domain - it's impossible to have two city spirits at the same time. The
spirit disappears at the next sunrise/sunset, as normal. Aspected shamanic
conjurers should use their spell points to bond foci. Using them to
conjure spirits is a waste.

>Also, I thought you could have spirits up to your charisma.

That rule only applies to elementals summoned by hermetic mages. It makes
sense for an aspected hermetic conjurer to use spell points to have
elementals on-call at game start, since elementals are expensive and
time-consuming to conjure, remain until services are used, and don't
disappear at sunset/sunrise. However, I'd probably bond foci first and
then use the left over spell points for elementals.


-----
A society run by the media is a mediocracy.
Chris Shaffer chris@*****.net
http://www.uic.edu/~shaffer/
Message no. 23
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Damion Milliken)
Subject: magic resistance tests
Date: Sun Sep 2 14:15:01 2001
Chris Maxfield writes:

> Yep. Gone. Poof. No more. The shaman has no influence over the spirit
> though it still occupies the shaman's slot for a spirit in that domain. ;-)

Hmmm. This makes me think. So say Guy Smiley, spirit conjurer extrordanaire,
summons a Hearth spirit in a building. He commands it to Conceal the bomb he
just placed there. Now, he jumps out the window, and summons an Air Spirit
to assist him in floating to the ground. Once on the street outside, he
summons a City Spirit to Conceal him again.

Unfortunately for him, the watcher spirit patrolling the building noticed
all this magical activity and reported him to the security mage. The goon
squad rounds the corner...

Guy Smiley leaps through an open window of a nearby building as a fusilade
of bullets rips up the pavement where he was just standing. He's back in
Hearth domain.

Does this mean that he cannot summon another Hearth spirit, as he already
has one in the other building Concealing the bomb?

I'll have to check this out - it could well be a fairly big limitation on
spirits that I hadn't noticed before... <evil GM grin>

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
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Message no. 24
From: shadowrn@*********.com (BD)
Subject: magic resistance tests
Date: Sun Sep 2 16:15:01 2001
> Does this mean that he cannot summon another Hearth spirit, as he already
> has one in the other building Concealing the bomb?
>
> I'll have to check this out - it could well be a fairly big limitation on
> spirits that I hadn't noticed before... <evil GM grin>
> Damion Milliken

Naw, not unless he jumped into the same building he'd just jumped out of.
Guy can only have one spirit in a particular area as delimited by domain.
So if he was bored (and quick) enough, he could raise a spirit in every
damned house in Seattle.

That's my off-the-cuff, not lookin'-at-any-books answer. :)

====-Boondocker

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Message no. 25
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Valeu John EMFA)
Subject: magic resistance tests
Date: Sun Sep 2 18:55:01 2001
> > Does this mean that he cannot summon another Hearth spirit, as he
> already
> > has one in the other building Concealing the bomb?
> >
> > I'll have to check this out - it could well be a fairly big limitation
> on
> > spirits that I hadn't noticed before... <evil GM grin>
> > Damion Milliken
>
> Naw, not unless he jumped into the same building he'd just jumped out
> of.
> Guy can only have one spirit in a particular area as delimited by domain.
>
> So if he was bored (and quick) enough, he could raise a spirit in every
> damned house in Seattle.
>
> That's my off-the-cuff, not lookin'-at-any-books answer. :)
>
[Valeu John EMFA]
That's if he can visit every building in the plex by nightfall (or
daybreak).
Or do you mean just put them on "Stand By"?
Message no. 26
From: shadowrn@*********.com (BD)
Subject: magic resistance tests
Date: Sun Sep 2 23:20:01 2001
>> So if he was bored (and quick) enough, he could raise a spirit in every
>> damned house in Seattle.
>>
>> That's my off-the-cuff, not lookin'-at-any-books answer. :)

> [Valeu John EMFA]
> That's if he can visit every building in the plex by nightfall (or
> daybreak). Or do you mean just put them on "Stand By"?

S'why I said "quick," John-Boy. ;) And what's Stand By? Is that like an
energy-saver mode for spirits? As far as I know, a spirit conjured will
piss off at daybreak/nightfall regardless of whether you've ignored them
and left them in the metaplanes or had them vacumning your mansion all day.
As far as -I- know. :)

====-Boondocker

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Message no. 27
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Valeu John EMFA)
Subject: magic resistance tests
Date: Mon Sep 3 02:50:01 2001
>>> So if he was bored (and quick) enough, he could raise a spirit in every
>>> damned house in Seattle.
>>>
>>> That's my off-the-cuff, not lookin'-at-any-books answer. :)

>> [Valeu John EMFA]
>> That's if he can visit every building in the plex by nightfall (or
>> daybreak). Or do you mean just put them on "Stand By"?

> S'why I said "quick," John-Boy. ;) And what's Stand By? Is that like an
>energy-saver mode for spirits? As far as I know, a spirit conjured will
>piss off at daybreak/nightfall regardless of whether you've ignored them
>and left them in the metaplanes or had them vacumning your mansion all day.
> As far as -I- know. :)

Exclusive Complex Action to summon a spirit. Simple action to summon a
spirit on stand by (or On Call, On Tap, whatever). I guess that's just when
you tell them to "wait for my call".
Of course if they're just cleaning up the place and a fire fight breaks out,
you damn well better be sure that thier going to be more then just on stand
by...

EMFA John Valeu
-AKA- TimeKeeper
"I don't write the rules, just follow and when necessary break them."
Message no. 28
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Jane VR)
Subject: magic resistance tests
Date: Mon Sep 3 20:25:01 2001
>From: Valeu John EMFA <ValeuJ@*************.navy.mil>

> >>> So if he was bored (and quick) enough, he could raise a spirit in
>every
> >>> damned house in Seattle.
> >>>
> >>> That's my off-the-cuff, not lookin'-at-any-books answer. :)
>
> >> [Valeu John EMFA]
> >> That's if he can visit every building in the plex by nightfall (or
> >> daybreak). Or do you mean just put them on "Stand By"?
>
>
> > As far as -I- know. :)
>
>Exclusive Complex Action to summon a spirit. Simple action to summon a
>spirit on stand by (or On Call, On Tap, whatever). I guess that's just
>when
>you tell them to "wait for my call".


I thought that was for mages and elementals?

Jane

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Message no. 29
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Jane VR)
Subject: magic resistance tests
Date: Mon Sep 3 20:30:01 2001
>From: BD <l3oondocker@*****.com>

> Naw, not unless he jumped into the same building he'd just jumped out
>of.
> Guy can only have one spirit in a particular area as delimited by domain.


So does an apartment block have one Hearth spirit for the whole building or
one per apartment?

Jane

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Message no. 30
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Damion Milliken)
Subject: magic resistance tests
Date: Mon Sep 3 23:20:01 2001
Jane VR writes:

> >Exclusive Complex Action to summon a spirit. Simple action to summon a
> >spirit on stand by (or On Call, On Tap, whatever). I guess that's just
> >when you tell them to "wait for my call".
>
> I thought that was for mages and elementals?

Until you summon them spirits of all types exist on the metaplanes.
Summoning an elemental takes a number of hours equal to the Force, and
circles, and materials, and all that jazz. The elemental then appears in
astral space near you. Summoning a nature spirit takes an Exclusive Complex
Action, and the spirit then appears in astral space near you. Having a
spirit (of any type) hang around in astral space near you takes up a
service. This is rather moot with nature spirits, as they depart at sunrise
or sunset. But with elementals, it would suck. It takes no tasks to send a
spirit of any type back to its home metaplane. It then takes a Complex
Action to get it to appear in astral space near you again. This, obviously,
is most useful for elementals, in order to avoid wasting all your services
having them hang around all the time. When a spirit of any type is hanging
around in astral space near you, it takes a Simple action to order it to do
stuff.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
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e++>++++$ h- r++>+++ y->+++
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Message no. 31
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Damion Milliken)
Subject: magic resistance tests
Date: Mon Sep 3 23:20:03 2001
Jane VR writes:

> So does an apartment block have one Hearth spirit for the whole building or
> one per apartment?

I think that any given bit of "Hearth" domain, no matter how large or how
small, has an infinite number of hearth spirits. My reasoning for this is
that each and every shaman present in the domain can summon his own hearth
spirit, regardless of whether the other shamans have or not.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
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V- PS+ PE- Y+ PGP-@>++ t+ 5 X+>+++ R++ !tv(--) b+ DI+++@ D G+
e++>++++$ h- r++>+++ y->+++
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Message no. 32
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Bira)
Subject: magic resistance tests
Date: Tue Sep 4 00:15:01 2001
On Tue, 04 Sep 2001 00:26:58 +0000
"Jane VR" <kadjari@*******.com> wrote:

>
>
>
> >From: BD <l3oondocker@*****.com>
>
> > Naw, not unless he jumped into the same building he'd just jumped out
> >of.
> > Guy can only have one spirit in a particular area as delimited by domain.
>
>
> So does an apartment block have one Hearth spirit for the whole building or
> one per apartment?

I'd say one per apartment, and maybe a slightly more powerful one for the whole
building. A shopping mall has one for every store and another for the mall as a whole, and
so on...

--
Bira -- SysOp da Shadowland.BR
http://www.shadowland.com.br
Redator de Shadowrun da RPG em Revista
http://www.rpgemrevista.f2s.com
Message no. 33
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Bira)
Subject: magic resistance tests
Date: Tue Sep 4 00:15:04 2001
On Tue, 04 Sep 2001 00:21:55 +0000
"Jane VR" <kadjari@*******.com> wrote:

> >Exclusive Complex Action to summon a spirit. Simple action to summon a
> >spirit on stand by (or On Call, On Tap, whatever). I guess that's just
> >when
> >you tell them to "wait for my call".
>
>
> I thought that was for mages and elementals?
>
> Jane

To summon an elemental, a mage needs to perform a ritual that takes (Force) hours,
and requires (Force x 1.000) nuyen in materials. After this time passes in the game, you
make a Summoning test as normal...

An elemental has no absolute time limit: it can stay "on standy" in the
metaplanes for an indefinite amount of time. It takes a Complex Action for the mage to
call it to her presence. For every 24 hours an elemental spends in the physical or astral
planes, it spends one service, in addition to any others it may be performing. It doesn't
need to obey domain boundaries, but needs to stay somewhat close to the mage. And a mage
can also have (Charisma) summoned elementals at the same time.

It's a tradeoff: a shaman summons his spirits instantly, but can have only one per
domain and they have a pre-set time limit (sunrise/sunset), wheter active or "on
standby". A mage needs a costly and time-consuming ritual to summon an elemental, but
he can keep him "on standby" forever, and can command a bunch of elementals at
the same time, which can be most useful.

--
Bira -- SysOp da Shadowland.BR
http://www.shadowland.com.br
Redator de Shadowrun da RPG em Revista
http://www.rpgemrevista.f2s.com
Message no. 34
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Bira)
Subject: magic resistance tests
Date: Tue Sep 4 00:30:01 2001
On Tue, 4 Sep 2001 13:16:46 +1000 (EST)
Damion Milliken <dam01@***.edu.au> wrote:

> Jane VR writes:
>
> > So does an apartment block have one Hearth spirit for the whole building or
> > one per apartment?
>
> I think that any given bit of "Hearth" domain, no matter how large or how
> small, has an infinite number of hearth spirits. My reasoning for this is
> that each and every shaman present in the domain can summon his own hearth
> spirit, regardless of whether the other shamans have or not.

You can also link that to the "domestic deities" myth that some ancient
religions/cultures have. To a shaman, a hearth spirit is the god of a specific
"home", be it an apartment, a shopping mall or an office building. It inhabits
that "home" and can exert its power over it.

So when two shamans summon a hearth spirit in the same place, they're actually
summoning two manifestations of the same domestic deity. Bear in mind that shamanic
summoning is not based on imperious orders ("I command thee, o spirit...") like
hermetic conjuring. The shaman has to ask, persuade or even beg the spirit for its
services, which are seen as favors, and "bound" nature spirits are more
free-willed than elementals.

So, the spirit of a certain hearth can "oppose itself" if two enemies
summon it at the same time, but it will probably avoid doing anything to harm its domain
or the people who inhabit it (if it's well treated by them - otherwise, it might not
care). If a shaman ends up forcing a spirit to do this, he may earn reprimands from his
totem later on.

--
Bira -- SysOp da Shadowland.BR
http://www.shadowland.com.br
Redator de Shadowrun da RPG em Revista
http://www.rpgemrevista.f2s.com
Message no. 35
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Chris Maxfield)
Subject: magic resistance tests
Date: Tue Sep 4 04:40:01 2001
Records show that at 10:26 on Tuesday 4/09/01, Jane VR scribbled:
>So does an apartment block have one Hearth spirit for the whole building or
>one per apartment?

I'd say one Hearth spirit (per shaman!) for the entire block, not per
apartment. For the same reason that there is one city spirit for an entire
city in spite of all the different regions, districts and neighbourhoods
that makeup a city; and one forest spirit for all the separate
micro-climates and individual ecosystems that make up a single "forest".
Further, the description on p184 (SR3) of a Hearth domain says it is "an
occupied building" not apartment, unit or residence, but building. :-)

Chris
Message no. 36
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Chris Maxfield)
Subject: magic resistance tests
Date: Tue Sep 4 04:50:01 2001
Records show that at 13:15 on Tuesday 4/09/01, Damion Milliken scribbled:
>Until you summon them spirits of all types exist on the metaplanes.

Nah. All spirits are created from nothing by the Art and Will of the
conjurer in the act of conjuring. ;-)

>or sunset. But with elementals, it would suck. It takes no tasks to send a
>spirit of any type back to its home metaplane. It then takes a Complex
>Action to get it to appear in astral space near you again. This, obviously,

A minor clarification: It only takes a Simple Action to retrieve a nature
spirit from standby.

Chris

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