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From:	Johnflang@*.com (Johnflang@*.com)
Subject:	Magic Users
Date:	Fri, 18 Jun 2004 16:53:15 -0400

Message no. 1 In a message dated 6/18/2004 3:26:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gurth@******.nl writes:

> I didn't say I build mages with 5 Essence worth of implants. 1 or 2 points
> is my normal limit, too, so as to still keep a decent
> magical ability but
> at the same time get the benefits from technology.

I guess that is where we are different. I tell any newcomers that they are specialists on
a team of specialists. You have your specialty and you can fight in combat. Some people
on the team are specialists in fighting let them know every weapon every style. Stick to
your speciality and one skill in fighting.

Note this is for beginning characters. As they progress everyone on the team improves
their combat ability generally though not at the expense of thier specialty. The majority
of my magic attribute PC never get cyberware and bioware and this has not degraded their
ability to support the team.

Everyone has a different style. Mine is really good at what you do and fight, covert over
overt. If I sneak in, do the job get out and not fire a shot life is wonderful

John

From:	gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject:	Magic Users
Date:	Sat, 19 Jun 2004 11:16:10 +0200

Message no. 2 According to Johnflang@***.com, on Friday 18 June 2004 22:53 the word on
the street was...

> I guess that is where we are different. I tell any newcomers that they
> are specialists on a team of specialists. You have your specialty and
> you can fight in combat. Some people on the team are specialists in
> fighting let them know every weapon every style. Stick to your
> speciality and one skill in fighting.

That's also the philosophy of most of my players, so I can certainly
understand what you're saying -- most of the PCs are pretty good at one or
perhaps two things, but not at much else; some can't even really handle
themselves in combat or sneaking around...

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
... in real life, which was styled after the film.
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	james@****.uow.edu.au (James Niall Zealey)
Subject:	Magic Users
Date:	Mon, 21 Jun 2004 09:32:12 +1000

Message no. 3 > From:
> Johnflang@***.com
>
> In a message dated 6/18/2004 3:26:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gurth@******.nl
writes:
>

> I guess that is where we are different. I tell any newcomers that they are
specialists on a team of specialists. You have your specialty and you can fight in
combat. Some people on the team are specialists in fighting let them know every weapon
every style. Stick to your speciality and one skill in fighting.
>
> Note this is for beginning characters. As they progress everyone on the team
improves their combat ability generally though not at the expense of thier specialty. The
majority of my magic attribute PC never get cyberware and bioware and this has not
degraded their ability to support the team.
>
> Everyone has a different style. Mine is really good at what you do and fight, covert
over overt. If I sneak in, do the job get out and not fire a shot life is wonderful
>
> John

Except for the fact that having cybereyes and boosted reflexes DOES make
a mage better at magic. If you're stuck with normal vision in the dark,
you're in trouble. If you only get one spell a round, that's nothing
with being able to invis an entire party during your 3 passes.

Not to mention the fact that if you're doing all this with sustaining
foci or quickened spells, you'll have a lot of trouble with wards...

But at the same time, a mage without cyber still has his advantages -
enough to balance out the cyber's benefits.

In short, I think you cripple yourself by saying "my mage will
never/always have cyber".

From:	maxnoel_fr@*****.fr (Max Noel)
Subject:	Magic Users
Date:	Mon, 21 Jun 2004 01:40:14 +0200

Message no. 4 Le 21 juin 2004, à 01:32, James Niall Zealey a écrit :

> Except for the fact that having cybereyes and boosted reflexes DOES
> make a mage better at magic. If you're stuck with normal vision in the
> dark, you're in trouble. If you only get one spell a round, that's
> nothing with being able to invis an entire party during your 3 passes.

Although I agree with the cybereyes bit, of all the mages I've ever
met, very few ever *wanted* to cast more than 1 spell per turn, cybered
or not. The reason is simple: drain. To be efficient and not take
drain, a mage needs to rely on his spell pool heavily, and said spell
pool only refreshes once per turn, regardless of your initiative. Thus,
casting multiple spells in the same turn is often not only inefficient
(especially if your GM is lucky), but also dangerous.

-- Wild_Cat
maxnoel_fr at yahoo dot fr -- ICQ #85274019
"Look at you hacker... A pathetic creature of meat and bone, panting
and sweating as you run through my corridors... How can you challenge a
perfect, immortal machine?"

From:	wilson.reis@*****.com (Wilson Reis)
Subject:	Magic Users
Date:	Sun, 20 Jun 2004 22:47:12 -0300

Message no. 5 On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 01:40:14 +0200, Max Noel <maxnoel_fr@*****.fr> wrote:
>
>
> Le 21 juin 2004, à 01:32, James Niall Zealey a écrit :
>
> > Except for the fact that having cybereyes and boosted reflexes DOES
> > make a mage better at magic. If you're stuck with normal vision in the
> > dark, you're in trouble. If you only get one spell a round, that's
> > nothing with being able to invis an entire party during your 3 passes.
>
> Although I agree with the cybereyes bit, of all the mages I've ever
> met, very few ever *wanted* to cast more than 1 spell per turn, cybered
> or not. The reason is simple: drain. To be efficient and not take
> drain, a mage needs to rely on his spell pool heavily, and said spell
> pool only refreshes once per turn, regardless of your initiative. Thus,
> casting multiple spells in the same turn is often not only inefficient
> (especially if your GM is lucky), but also dangerous.
>

Well, Stun Bolt spells are clean, effective and most mages would like
to cast it more than once a round. The drain for a 6M StunBolt is only
2M, and the chance of rolling 3 or more 1´s with 6 willpower dice is
quite slim. Make it 7 with magic pool and you´re statistically far
from being stunned.

(The chance of having at least 4 successes in a roll of 6 dice against
TN 2 is 93,77% and that goes quite near 99% if you make it 7 dice, btw
)

And that is obviously not the only way a mage can be effective in combat.

Will

From:	gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject:	Magic Users
Date:	Mon, 21 Jun 2004 10:51:42 +0200

Message no. 6 According to Max Noel, on Monday 21 June 2004 01:40 the word on the street
was...

> Although I agree with the cybereyes bit, of all the mages I've ever
> met, very few ever *wanted* to cast more than 1 spell per turn, cybered
> or not. The reason is simple: drain.

Partly true, if you ask me. But don't forget that having an improved
initiative also allows you to do things other than cast more spells :) You
could, for example, use an action to observe the surroundings to find
where the enemy is, and then use your next action in the same turn to cast
a spell on them, open a door and cast a spell on the other side of it, and
so on.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
... in real life, which was styled after the film.
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

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