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Message no. 1
From: NightLife <habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU>
Subject: Making players care
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 19:19:25 -0500
I'd like to ask a question. How do other GM's make characters care about the
ever abstract concept of saving the world. Right now I have a group with a
prevelant mercenary attitude. I'd like to shift it towards having the desire
to do what needs be done simply because it does. I'm not adverse to the old
patron idea but I'd also like to have the players give a damn about the
world even if its nothing more than self preservation. Getting paid to do
something isn't bad but the general concern should also be present. Because
apparently having extensive romantic relationships aren't the key. So any
ideas? Also Brad aka The Immortal Mental. I know you're also reading this
so keep your mouth shut.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Goodie!
Maybe it's those Rocket Skates I ordered from the ACME company!
The last pair backfired and almost blew my legs halfway to my Duodenum.
But I'll get that pesky Road Runner yet.
With My Life's Blood I swear it!

"Deadpool #3"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
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Message no. 2
From: Mark McKenna <mmckenn@*****.BGSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Making players care
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 19:55:08 -0500
On Thu, 20 Feb 1997, NightLife wrote:

> I'd like to ask a question. How do other GM's make characters care about the
> ever abstract concept of saving the world. Right now I have a group with a
> prevelant mercenary attitude. I'd like to shift it towards having the desire
> to do what needs be done simply because it does. I'm not adverse to the old
> patron idea but I'd also like to have the players give a damn about the
> world even if its nothing more than self preservation. Getting paid to do
> something isn't bad but the general concern should also be present. Because
> apparently having extensive romantic relationships aren't the key. So any
> ideas? Also Brad aka The Immortal Mental. I know you're also reading this
> so keep your mouth shut.
What my Gm did to make me care for the world was a stick a few marally
righteous characters with me, i.e. Bull and Johnny, and give me reason to
save the world, example I have a girlfriend in the game and I adpoted a
12 year old boy because he hated his parents, so now as a character I can
not go out and think thst the world means nothing for now I have people
depending on me that aren't shadowrunners, so that means I'm inclined to
save the world if I have a chance to, plus I don't want my cat, Fugly, to
go hungry either
MrWhite

******************************************************************************


Mark W. McKenna Quote:
920 E. Wooster Apt. #4 "Oops I'll call you in a sec..."
Bowling Green, Ohio -the 7 second phone call
43402 <Mr. White>
(419)353-2405 Hobbies:Avid Shdowrun and Rifts RPG player

******************************************************************************
Message no. 3
From: Zanphier <zanphier@*****.CSRA.NET>
Subject: Re: Making players care
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 20:01:41 -0500
At 07:19 PM 2/20/97 -0500, you wrote:
>I'd like to ask a question. How do other GM's make characters care about the
>ever abstract concept of saving the world. Right now I have a group with a
>prevelant mercenary attitude. I'd like to shift it towards having the desire
>to do what needs be done simply because it does. I'm not adverse to the old
>patron idea but I'd also like to have the players give a damn about the
>world even if its nothing more than self preservation. Getting paid to do
>something isn't bad but the general concern should also be present. Because
>apparently having extensive romantic relationships aren't the key. So any
>ideas? Also Brad aka The Immortal Mental. I know you're also reading this
>so keep your mouth shut.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.

here is how I do it..find something they value the most, a)family, if any
left b)Favorite place to hang out c)Anything they would give a damn about.
Take it, destroy it, do something with it where they themselves have to make
the moral decision to do something to get it back. If they don't even do
that..perturb them have a reoccuring villian that always has something to do
with their runs. pretty soon they will get fed up with him and decide if
they destroy him they will end those problems.
My Input...Like it if you want..Use it if you like..but give me the respect
of givin it to ya.
Zan
Message no. 4
From: NightLife <habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Making players care
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 20:52:23 -0500
>here is how I do it..find something they value the most, a)family, if any
>left b)Favorite place to hang out c)Anything they would give a damn about.

D. Money

After the next session I think I'll take a sabbatical for 3 or 4 months.
Then re-organize. And start over.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Goodie!
Maybe it's those Rocket Skates I ordered from the ACME company!
The last pair backfired and almost blew my legs halfway to my Duodenum.
But I'll get that pesky Road Runner yet.
With My Life's Blood I swear it!

"Deadpool #3"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
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Message no. 5
From: Gavin Lewis <lewis@**.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Making players care
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 10:13:04 +0800
>I'd like to ask a question. How do other GM's make characters care about the
>ever abstract concept of saving the world. Right now I have a group with a
>prevelant mercenary attitude. I'd like to shift it towards having the desire
>to do what needs be done simply because it does. I'm not adverse to the old
>patron idea but I'd also like to have the players give a damn about the
>world even if its nothing more than self preservation. Getting paid to do
>something isn't bad but the general concern should also be present. Because
>apparently having extensive romantic relationships aren't the key. So any
>ideas? Also Brad aka The Immortal Mental. I know you're also reading this
>so keep your mouth shut.

Another problem that is common in a lot of RPG's! One solution is to offer
the players the option of running a "save the world mission" (Not actually
save the World BUT a morally high mission) OR a "lets get personel rewards
mission". If they choose the former, then your PC's have some sort of
concern. But, they will more than likely pick the mission that has rewards.

If so run the adventure normally, but at the end of the adventure have a
plot twist which has a basic result of ..... "if only the players had choose
the first mission, they would have been able to stop the onslaught that has
befallen them now". Sort of a "if only they had destroyed the 'evil' before
it go so tough".

Have the effects of the 'evil' (for lack of a better word), hurt them
emotionally. Destroy their homes, kill their family, rob their bank account,
kill the cat etc etc. AND make it blatantly obvious that bigger issues (like
saving the world) involve the PC's, otherwise, they will be "corks floating
in a sea of apathy". Soon the PC's will realise that it is better to try and
have a say on the bigger issues of the world, as opposed to just feeling the
effects of these bigger issues.

Gav


"In crises the most daring email: lewis@**.edu.au
course is often the safest" tel: +61 9 239 5525
fax: +61 9 239 5544
Henry A. Kissinger Gavin Lewis
The University of Notre Dame - Aust.
Message no. 6
From: NightLife <habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Making players care
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 20:56:04 -0500
>What my Gm did to make me care for the world was a stick a few marally
>righteous characters with me, i.e. Bull and Johnny, and give me reason to
>save the world, example I have a girlfriend in the game

I tried that one but it doesn't seem to affect them.

> and I adpoted a
>12 year old boy because he hated his parents, so now as a character I can
>not go out and think thst the world means nothing for now I have people
>depending on me that aren't shadowrunners, so that means I'm inclined to
>save the world if I have a chance to, plus I don't want my cat, Fugly, to
>go hungry either
>MrWhite

Perhaps children. Hmmm maybe it time for a little bundle of joy to come
their way.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Goodie!
Maybe it's those Rocket Skates I ordered from the ACME company!
The last pair backfired and almost blew my legs halfway to my Duodenum.
But I'll get that pesky Road Runner yet.
With My Life's Blood I swear it!

"Deadpool #3"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
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Message no. 7
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Making players care
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 20:16:07 -0700
NightLife wrote:
|
| I'd like to ask a question. How do other GM's make characters care about the
| ever abstract concept of saving the world. Right now I have a group with a
| prevelant mercenary attitude. I'd like to shift it towards having the desire

The group I have has the same philosophy. So, I trick them
into saving the world. Basically, I just put their lives
(or bank accounts, or friends, or whatever) in jeapordy and
as a byproduct of dealing with the threat they end up
saving the world and getting a reputation as being the guys
in white hats :)

BTW, not every adventure is like this (just every other one ;)

-David
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 8
From: NightLife <habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Making players care
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 22:43:59 -0500
>The group I have has the same philosophy. So, I trick them
>into saving the world. Basically, I just put their lives
>(or bank accounts, or friends, or whatever) in jeapordy and
>as a byproduct of dealing with the threat they end up
>saving the world and getting a reputation as being the guys
>in white hats :)

If I have to trick them there is no point in even continuing. I'd settle for
this abstaction. I've set a foundation. Now a buidling is to be laid. They
don't like my design and their design won't work on the basic foundation. So
as a necessity the building takes on the necessary elements to fit on the
laid foundation. So the foundation remains the same but the buidling is a
compromise. IE. I don't mind rewarding them some of the time but not all the
time. Self preservation alone would have sufficed as a reason to save the
world. I would have thought the idea of family and marriage would add to
that. But as I said I guess not. Doesn't this sound like some soap opera.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Goodie!
Maybe it's those Rocket Skates I ordered from the ACME company!
The last pair backfired and almost blew my legs halfway to my Duodenum.
But I'll get that pesky Road Runner yet.
With My Life's Blood I swear it!

"Deadpool #3"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Message no. 9
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Making players care
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 20:58:01 -0700
Nightlife wrote:

[snip: I trick the characters]

[snip: soap factory :)]

Quick question: Are the character mercenary, or are the players mercenary?

-David
Message no. 10
From: NightLife <habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Making players care
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 23:52:49 -0500
At 08:58 PM 2/20/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Nightlife wrote:
>
>[snip: I trick the characters]
>
>[snip: soap factory :)]
>
>Quick question: Are the character mercenary, or are the players mercenary?
>
>-David
>

Quick answer: The characters were divided down the middle half being merc
the other half not. The same answer applies to the players half and half

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Goodie!
Maybe it's those Rocket Skates I ordered from the ACME company!
The last pair backfired and almost blew my legs halfway to my Duodenum.
But I'll get that pesky Road Runner yet.
With My Life's Blood I swear it!

"Deadpool #3"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Message no. 11
From: NightLife <habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Making players care
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 23:53:31 -0500
I really need a vacation preferably out of state. Any suggestions.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Goodie!
Maybe it's those Rocket Skates I ordered from the ACME company!
The last pair backfired and almost blew my legs halfway to my Duodenum.
But I'll get that pesky Road Runner yet.
With My Life's Blood I swear it!

"Deadpool #3"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Message no. 12
From: Gavin Lewis <lewis@**.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Making players care
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 13:23:12 +0800
>I really need a vacation preferably out of state. Any suggestions.

Come over to Australia and play some SRII where you dont have to deal with
so much of *&$#! ;)

Gav
Message no. 13
From: NightLife <habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Making players care
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 00:13:35 -0500
At 01:23 PM 2/21/97 +0800, you wrote:
>>I really need a vacation preferably out of state. Any suggestions.
>
>Come over to Australia and play some SRII where you dont have to deal with
>so much of *&$#! ;)
>
>Gav
>

You know that really sounds nice. If I had the $ I would. To think
everything went to hell in a handbasket three months ago and I'm not sure
why. Never in six years of gaming has sh*t like this happened. Makes me want
to scrap the whole hobby. One guy I know was right I don't think I've ever
been in a really good gaming group.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Goodie!
Maybe it's those Rocket Skates I ordered from the ACME company!
The last pair backfired and almost blew my legs halfway to my Duodenum.
But I'll get that pesky Road Runner yet.
With My Life's Blood I swear it!

"Deadpool #3"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Message no. 14
From: Mark McKenna <mmckenn@*****.BGSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Making players care
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 01:12:56 -0500
On Thu, 20 Feb 1997, NightLife wrote:

> I really need a vacation preferably out of state. Any suggestions.
>
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Come to Ohio, everything is blooming out here, and you get to meet Bull
and the rest of us
McKenna
******************************************************************************


Mark W. McKenna Quote:
920 E. Wooster Apt. #4 "Oops I'll call you in a sec..."
Bowling Green, Ohio -the 7 second phone call
43402 <Mr. White>
(419)353-2405 Hobbies:Avid Shdowrun and Rifts RPG player

******************************************************************************
Message no. 15
From: Dolores Chesser <shaggy68@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Making players care
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 00:19:05 -0600
Nightlife Says:

> I'd like to ask a question. How do other GM's make characters care about
the
> ever abstract concept of saving the world. Right now I have a group with
a
> prevelant mercenary attitude. I'd like to shift it towards having the
desire
> to do what needs be done simply because it does. I'm not adverse to the
old
> patron idea but I'd also like to have the players give a damn about the
> world even if its nothing more than self preservation. Getting paid to do
> something isn't bad but the general concern should also be present.
Because
> apparently having extensive romantic relationships aren't the key. So any
> ideas? Also Brad aka The Immortal Mental. I know you're also reading
this
> so keep your mouth shut.

Try throwing their family into the campaign and putting them in danger, or
maybe even kill one of them off. (Harsh eh?) Then let them find out the
person who did it is the person who is trying to unsave the world. Give
the characters enemies, make them want vengeance. Then trick(?) them into
trying to save the world.

John
Message no. 16
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Making players care
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 01:49:18 -0500
At 07:19 PM 2/20/97 -0500, NightLife wrote these timeless words:
>I'd like to ask a question. How do other GM's make characters care about the
>ever abstract concept of saving the world. Right now I have a group with a
>prevelant mercenary attitude. I'd like to shift it towards having the desire
>to do what needs be done simply because it does. I'm not adverse to the old
>patron idea but I'd also like to have the players give a damn about the
>world even if its nothing more than self preservation. Getting paid to do
>something isn't bad but the general concern should also be present. Because
>apparently having extensive romantic relationships aren't the key. So any
>ideas? Also Brad aka The Immortal Mental. I know you're also reading this
>so keep your mouth shut.
>
Ok, this is "let's talk about our characters nd how they got the way they
are" time, so of course I'm going to open my yap...:) Sorry..:)

How did Bull become the kind, caring, panther assault carrying Ork Decker
family man that he is today? Good question, and one tat damned hard to
answer. Obviously, part of it was how I play my character. I've always
had a hard time playing a total prick bastard mercenary type, let alone a
totally evil character. Too far outside my own personality for me to do
for too long. Besides, when I created Bull, my SR experience was a bit
limited, but everything I'd read or heard about the game suggested that
cold hearted mercs were more the norm, so I set about creating a uniques
character.

I didn't want to play Human, as that's boring. And since my buddy Rusty
(The only other PC at the time) was plaing a Shaman, Magic was out. I
decided to go with an Ork, since you can't play an ork in most games. And
I decided to take a decker, since I know drek about Computers in real life,
and because that's definatley not the average Ork Character. Plus, when I
created his background, I made him a fairly "Nice" character that ended up
forced into teh shadows...

Hmmm, I'm straying off the original topic, aren't I? This is how to create
a caring character, not how to make an existing one care... Ok, new
direction...

Ok, well, a few things early on in the game really shaped Bull's character.
We were hired to "kneecap" a man who had stolen a bit of money from his
employer (or something like that), to kind of warn him to give the money
back. The man turned out to be a ghoul, and he trashed the very weak and
inexperienced Bull and Johnny 99, and Johnny lost his temper and opened up
with his Uzi III, killing (so we though:)) the ghoul.

We didn't get paid, and pissed off the Johnson, and the ghoul eventually
came back for revenge... Thus, Johnny and I learned the hard way to follow
the run's perameters.

Another time, we did the Mecurial module. We tried to shoot the dragon
down with a rocket, and shot Kyle Morgan. Plus, I got into their computer
systems, stole the opposing group's funds, and tried to make it look like
Kyle ripped them off... Oops... I wan't a very good decekr at the time...

Let's just say I pissed off the world's greatest assasin, and spent the
next several months getting tortured and blown up every step of the way.
Fortunately Kyle didn't want us dead, just taught a lesson... Have you
seen Die Hard 3? We did that...

That taught us a good bit of humility, as well as a sense of who we really
were. Small specks to teh pros...:)

I've also gotten my sorry rear end into a mess with a famlly... If you can
manage it, a family provides a lot or RP oppurtunities, story hooks, and a
way to get the character to do what you want. I made the mistake ofsaying
I'd sleep with a girl Bull was seeing, and not specifically saying I was
playing it safe. Tinner roles randomly, and next thing I know, she's
pregnant. Now, my character was far too nice to just say "Too Bad", or to
give her some cash and send her on her way... Besides, Tiner knew me as a
person well enough to know what kind of woman I liked, and turned Marie
into that woman. So I kinda liked her, so we lived together a while, then
got married (Bull and Marie, not me and Tinner!:)), and eventually had twins:)

Another time, during a certain Harlequin related run, Johnny tried to
infiltrate a group of elf wannabes that we were hired to kill. This was
our one and only attempt at wetwork. He infiltrated, then as a test of
loyalty, was told to kill a little girl who was the daughter (I think) of
one of the otehr members. Johnny figured it was just a test, and that the
gun wasn't loaded, so he pulled the trigger...

Click... Nothing happened... So just because, he pulled the trigegr twice
more... Bang...:( he hadn't chamebred the first round, so it dry fired
once...

needless to say, it was a bit of a cluster frag from tehre on out... We
vowed never to do wet work again...

Well, I hope I gave you a few ideas... Granted,the biggest thing for our
group was teh fact that we made "nice" characters to start with... But
make it clear that whatever you want your characters to do in your game,
they need to do or it will effect *them*... If it's not going to bother
them, why should they care? But if it will frag up their lives, they'll care.

Hope that helps a little... I'll shut up now...:)

Bull
--
Now the Fearless Leader of the New Star Wars Mailing List!

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****.com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"I finally find a guy I like, and you got to go and kill him!"
-Kom, "Outlanders"
Message no. 17
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Making players care
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 01:47:50 -0500
It's all about PAIN.

PC's are not motivated by nuyen.
They can always score more cash by robbery than by good deeds.

PC's are not even necessarily motivated by love.
I've seen mrecs cold enough to wax their own wives over an imagined slight.

No, what really motivates PC's is deep, unending, soul burning pain.
This only works if you get inside your players heads a little, and this can
be a drak and scary place to go.
Let me give you an example ...

The game I currently run has some great players - Bull and Mark McKenna
from this list are two of them.
Then I have a couple guys that just never seem to get the hang of it.

Maybe the worst offender in the second category is Brian/Codis.
Codis was a merc without a soul.
He had NO personal life, not ties, nothing he loved.
And I had no way to motivate him to do "good" runs.

So I had to get tricky.
I sat down with Brian and tried to decide what he really enjoyed most about
the SR game.
He liked magic, spirits and POWER (he's a reforming munchkin :-))

My solution was to offer Brian even greater power than his sammy could deal
with.
A free spirit (demon) made a deal with him.
If Codis would remove all his cyber, the spirit <named Sensei - based
loosely off Tutor from Threats> would grant him power beyond all belief.
It worked - Codis had every scrap of cyber removed, and allowed the spirit
to possess him.
At first, everything was great, Codis suddenly had more power than he knew
what to do with.
His initiative tests suddenly became subject to the rule of six!
He could cast ANY spell in the book at limited levels.
In short he was every munchkin's dream - the ultimate cybernijamage!

Then he woke up with a dead girl in his bed ...
Three times ...
Then he started "sleep walking" to strange bars to pick up "new meat"

And the girls (and boys) started getting younger ...
And the deaths became more gruesome ..
To tell the truth I really offended myself with how graphic my descriptions
of his actions became.
At one point I had the PLAYER shaking he was so scared fo what his
character had done ...

But ... IT WORKED!!

Suddenly Codis could see just how much of a monster he had become!
He became much more of a team player.
He wanted to do good deeds to atone for his evil.
Anything the voice in his head wanted was something to avoid, and likewise
if Mr. Demon wanted to avoid a situation, that was where Codis wanted to
be!
The power he had was sudenly a curse to be free of, rather than a gift.
He began to see the bigger picture.

This tactic is like I said, a lot of work, and takes a while.
You have to know your players on a persona level and get into some
stroytelling that might be a little too - dare I say intimate? - for some
groups.
It doesn't have to be anything like a demon possession, just find ONE thing
that the player values and threaten it with extinction.
For Codis it was his humanity, maybe for someone else, it would be a
crippling disease, or the Borrowed Time flaw.
Whatever it is, if you can make the PLAYER feel for his character, you're
well on your way to making him care about saving the world.

Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com./users/bluewizard
"Let's go scare Al."
Message no. 18
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Making players care
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 01:54:18 -0500
At 10:43 PM 2/20/97 -0500, NightLife wrote these timeless words:
>If I have to trick them there is no point in even continuing. I'd settle for
>this abstaction. I've set a foundation. Now a buidling is to be laid. They
>don't like my design and their design won't work on the basic foundation. So
>as a necessity the building takes on the necessary elements to fit on the
>laid foundation. So the foundation remains the same but the buidling is a
>compromise. IE. I don't mind rewarding them some of the time but not all the
>time. Self preservation alone would have sufficed as a reason to save the
>world. I would have thought the idea of family and marriage would add to
>that. But as I said I guess not. Doesn't this sound like some soap opera.
>
Well, like you said in an earlier post... If this isn't the game you want
to run, and the characters you want your players to play, maybe it is time
to start over... I've had to do this myself...

Simply sit down with your players, and put some restrictions on your
players new characters. Tell them you can play whatever, within these
guidelines, and set the guidelines at something you can work with and want
to work with. Don't let them play merc bastards... Make it a point to
give them a little "Extra" background and baggage...

"Yeah, ok... But you still have parents and a sister here in Seattle, and
you keep in close contact." Lay the guilt trip on them. make sure they
know what you want to run, and how you want to run it. I guess then it
will smply come down to whether or not tehy want to continue playing, and
with you as the GM...

And sadly, sometimes, you just can't keep a group together because you have
too many conflicting personalities and gaming styles...:(

Good luck, and I hope some of this helped...

Bull
--
Now the Fearless Leader of the New Star Wars Mailing List!

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****.com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"I finally find a guy I like, and you got to go and kill him!"
-Kom, "Outlanders"
Message no. 19
From: Tim P Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Making players care
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 03:36:49 EST
On Fri, 21 Feb 1997 00:19:05 -0600 Dolores Chesser writes:
>Nightlife Says:
>
>Try throwing their family into the campaign and putting them in danger,
or
>maybe even kill one of them off. (Harsh eh?) Then let them find out the
>person who did it is the person who is trying to unsave the world. Give
>the characters enemies, make them want vengeance. Then trick(?) them
into
>trying to save the world.
>
> John
>

Yeah, just don't do something so stupid as to hit them with everything at
once. A GM I know pretty much "trashed" my friend's rigger in one night.
Corporate ARMY killed his entire family, 8 kids and all (along with
everyone else in the building), and destroyed about 900,000 (before
street index) worth of drones and vehicles all because the rigger was
seen in the same general are as some corp guy. Now your thinking this
could be a great plot thickener...but seriously, on the FIRST session
with a brand new character? And he was the only one who lost anything
significant. Even the other players in felt that it was senseless
overkill. Motivated that player to never go to another of that guy's
games.

~Tim
Message no. 20
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Making players care
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 04:15:52 -0500
At 01:12 AM 2/21/97 -0500, Mark McKenna wrote these timeless words:
>Come to Ohio, everything is blooming out here, and you get to meet Bull
>and the rest of us
>McKenna

The poor guy is (If I remember rightly) already from Ohio... Cincinatti, I
think...:)

Bull
--
Now the Fearless Leader of the New Star Wars Mailing List!

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****.com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"I finally find a guy I like, and you got to go and kill him!"
-Kom, "Outlanders"
Message no. 21
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Making players care
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 10:06:42 -0500
Perhaps with your group of players the way to get them interested in "saving the
world" is to use reverse psychology.

Have them be hired to do a few random well-paying jobs, and then after number
three or four give them the clues that indicate that they have been working for
WinterNight or the Bugs or even the Enemy all along, and that a true END OF
THE WORLD is now about a year away, just a few more pieces to collect... Their
Mr. Johnson says here, have some more money MUHAHAHAHA and let them
think it over. Perhaps they now know enough based on their previous missions to
actually hurt a few components of WinterNights plan, so they either can work to
blow up the world for great pay or work to undo their previous work for free. And
their oposition is so much bigger than them all they can hope to do is push back
the clock... hopefully they will have some sense of responsibility...

Double-Domed Mike
Message no. 22
From: Dvixen <dvixen@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Making players care.
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 17:31:26 -0800
Hey Nightlife, make ya a deal. I'll send my GM down to your group, and you
come up here.

(And on another note....)

After some thinking about our most recent game, I realised that we had a
character that just wasn't integrating with our group all that well. (Damn
haughty elves) So our pharmaceutically-minded decker, Zero (aka Chastity)
decided to have a bit of fun with the elf, and got all of the PC's (Celt,
Caber, Zero) involved, although indirectly. Zero like to flirt. Especially
if they are playing hard to get.

First of all. We have a cat. Fang. It's not a cat. We don't know what it
is, and Fang makes the elf (Random, although Zero and now Celt call him
Master Entropy) damned nervous. Celt heard him chanting one night, a very
peculiar mantra, 'It's not a cat. It's not a cat...' Guess Fang has tried
to sleep with him, and decided to tell Random that his head was on his
tail. <shrug> We've had the cat for so long, that even the character who
hates magic, barely reacts.

Well, Celt was watching Trid, Caber was programming. Zero wanders in and
asks Celt to do her a favour. In return, she would tweak one of Celt's
false ID's. Then she tells Caber that she installed a camera unit into
Random's room a few days earlier, and shows him the code to activate. (We
didn't ask exactly *why* Zero put a camera in his room, we had a pretty
good idea.) (We all have rooms in the warehouse, though not all characters
live there.. It's convienient.)

"Okay, here's the plan." She says, all serious. Now we know something is
up. She hands Fang to Celt. "Can you make me look exactly like Fang?" Celt
shapechanges Zero into a pretty good replica of Fang. The stripes were a
bit off colour, but who's gonna notice in the dark? Neither Caber or Celt
offer to help Zero/Fang climb out of the jumpsuit she had been wearing.

So off Zero/Fang goes to Random's room. Zero basically made sure Random
didn't get back to sleep. Twenty minutes later, the real Fang gets away
from Caber, and runs to Random's door to see what's going on. We forgot
the cat could open doors. *sigh* In runs a second Fang, the spell drops,
Zero streaks out of teh room to her own, Random yells for Celt, who is
just hopping on the back of Caber's bike and heading out of the warehouse.


The date? April 1st.

(Celt is now convinced that Zero follows Coyote, and who ever said Sea
doesn't know how to appreciate a good joke?)

--

Dvixen dvixen@********.com
"And I thought First Ones were rare." - Ivanova - Babylon 5
The opinions expressed are those of the myriad voices in my head
Message no. 23
From: NightLife <habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Making players care.
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 08:01:13 -0500
At 05:31 PM 2/24/97 -0800, you wrote:
>Hey Nightlife, make ya a deal. I'll send my GM down to your group, and you
>come up here.
>
>(And on another note....)
>
I would but don't I need to wear a lot of flannel and have a pair of snow
shoes. On top of that I don't know the "Eh" dialect. ;-) Seriously thanks
for the invite though.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Goodie!
Maybe it's those Rocket Skates I ordered from the ACME company!
The last pair backfired and almost blew my legs halfway to my Duodenum.
But I'll get that pesky Road Runner yet.
With My Life's Blood I swear it!

"Deadpool #3"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Further Reading

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Thwap!