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Message no. 1
From: SHADE <MFN6430@****.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: manifestation
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 1994 20:40:14 -0600
I was wrong manifestation does make the spirit a dual natured creature
sorry.

Isbin and Thurmite
Message no. 2
From: Wilson Reis de Souza Neto <wilson@*****.CETUC.PUC-RIO.BR>
Subject: Manifestation
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 15:50:54 GMT-3
People were talkin about FAB stuff

and

James Ojaste wrote:


> Speaking of evil nasty stuff, what happens if a mage unknowingly
> swallows a capsule or two of FAB, then goes astral? He can't
> really get back into his body, unless he somehow takes the FAB
> with him, and he can't just toss down a hellblast...
>
> Would he have to manifest and mime to the rest of the party
> to make his body throw up? :-)
>
> Yes, I know, I should let FAB die quietly... What we really need
> is a good set of new rules for astral space. Using astral strength
> to push around other astral entities, etc.

I'm almost sure i'm being stupid, but does a magician can manifest
while in astral space??????


tkz
Message no. 3
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Manifestation
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 12:21:33 -0700
> I'm almost sure i'm being stupid, but does a magician can manifest
> while in astral space??????

Only as a ghostly apperition..ANd remains unable to physically
interact on the physical plane..
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
Kind of a bummer. Gettin' your butt kicked by a dead guy.
- Lt Col McQueen
Message no. 4
From: Mike Bobroff <AirWisp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Manifestation
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 00:44:40 -0500
In a message dated 97-11-12 13:23:53 EST, you write:

> > Yes, I know, I should let FAB die quietly... What we really need
> > is a good set of new rules for astral space. Using astral strength
> > to push around other astral entities, etc.
>
> I'm almost sure i'm being stupid, but does a magician can manifest
> while in astral space??????

Yes, a mage can mainfest into the real world from the astral, they are just
unabe to manipulate things physically themselves.

Mike
Message no. 5
From: Fredrik Lindblom <fredrik.lindblom@******.KALMAR.SE>
Subject: Re: Manifestation
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 09:48:09 +0100
>> I'm almost sure i'm being stupid, but does a magician can manifest
>> while in astral space??????
>
>Yes, a mage can mainfest into the real world from the astral, they are just
>unabe to manipulate things physically themselves.

Funny, really. I seem to be unable to find where in the rules it says that
they can... Not in SRII and not in the Grimmy. Mages manifest a lot in the
"Secrets of Power" trilogy, though, if I remember right.

Anyway, in my group only initiates have the ability. (that was, by the way,
a house rule, yes) Astral scouting is such great an advantage already,
IMHO, that the mage should suffer the inconvenience of returning to his
body to report what he has seen. At least until he is initiated.

/FL
Message no. 6
From: NightRain <nightrain@***.BRISNET.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: Manifestation
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 09:11:33 +1000
> Speaking of evil nasty stuff, what happens if a mage unknowingly
> swallows a capsule or two of FAB, then goes astral? He can't
> really get back into his body, unless he somehow takes the FAB
> with him, and he can't just toss down a hellblast...
>
> Would he have to manifest and mime to the rest of the party
> to make his body throw up? :-)


He could just tell them to make his body throw up. No need for miming.

NightRain.

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Message no. 7
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Manifestation
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 11:31:45 +0100
Fredrik Lindblom said on 9:48/13 Nov 97...

> Funny, really. I seem to be unable to find where in the rules it says that
> they can... Not in SRII and not in the Grimmy. Mages manifest a lot in the
> "Secrets of Power" trilogy, though, if I remember right.

It's on page 86 of the Grimoire, under Astral Projection.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
So what if we're making a scene now?
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
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Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
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Message no. 8
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Manifestation
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 10:49:06 +0100
Wilson Reis de Souza Neto said on 15:50/12 Nov 97...

> I'm almost sure i'm being stupid, but does a magician can manifest
> while in astral space??????

Only partially; you can make yourself seen and heard on the physical
plane, but you can't touch anything there -- all the rules for being on
the astral plane still apply (which IMHO means you can't read roadsigns by
semi-manifesting this way).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
So what if we're making a scene now?
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
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Message no. 9
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Manifestation
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 18:00:13 +0000
|I'm almost sure i'm being stupid, but does a magician can manifest
|while in astral space??????

Yes, he can...
But only visibly, not phyisically like a spirit....
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 10
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Manifestation
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 15:30:52 -0500
In a message dated 97-11-13 03:48:21 EST, fredrik.lindblom@******.KALMAR.SE
writes:

> Funny, really. I seem to be unable to find where in the rules it says that
> they can... Not in SRII and not in the Grimmy. Mages manifest a lot in the
> "Secrets of Power" trilogy, though, if I remember right.

Don't take this wrong, I'm not going page hunting right now (too lazy)...but
Kyle Teller also does the same "manifest for the mundanes" in Burning Bright.
Later on, in Bug City however, it says that Teller is an Initiate so the
argument is goofy. And Sam had to be initiated in some fashion for the
first, as his trips to Dog on the Metaplanes to Learn the Dance would
indicate to me.

> Anyway, in my group only initiates have the ability. (that was, by the
way,
> a house rule, yes) Astral scouting is such great an advantage already,
> IMHO, that the mage should suffer the inconvenience of returning to his
> body to report what he has seen. At least until he is initiated.

It's a neat rule, but visually representative manifestation is capable by any
projecting magician. But have fun with the house rule, it does help in some
circumstances when I think about it.

-K
Message no. 11
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Manifestation
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 15:37:26 -0500
In a message dated 97-11-13 07:12:33 EST, u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK writes:

>
> |I'm almost sure i'm being stupid, but does a magician can manifest
> |while in astral space??????
>
> Yes, he can...
> But only visibly, not phyisically like a spirit....
> -
I have a mild idea here. What if seperated Manifestating into "Reflective"
(like a magician would) and "Tangible" (using an argument from the
Poltergeist Series).

-K
Message no. 12
From: Czar Eggbert <czregbrt@*********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Manifestation
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 18:43:18 -0600
On Thu, 13 Nov 1997, Gurth wrote:

> Wilson Reis de Souza Neto said on 15:50/12 Nov 97...
>
> > I'm almost sure i'm being stupid, but does a magician can manifest
> > while in astral space??????
>
> Only partially; you can make yourself seen and heard on the physical
> plane, but you can't touch anything there -- all the rules for being on
> the astral plane still apply (which IMHO means you can't read roadsigns by
> semi-manifesting this way).

Has anyone thought of using a spirit as a guide on an Astral
excursion? I've used Watchers and Nature Spirits on occasion to read signs
or papers, ect.

-=>Czar


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Czar Eggbert
Ruler, Dark Side of the Moon.
homepage: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/5648
mailto:czregbrt@*********.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality!? Is that some new game?"
-MDF
"I'll need morphine, lots of it, and a pistol."
-The English Patient
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 13
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Manifestation
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 10:30:21 -0500
Hi y'all,

I just noticed something in the BBB regarding Manifestation: anything with
this power gets a number of Spell Defense dice equal to its Essence. Ouch!
I never noticed this before. And here we all thought mages tore up
spirits without breaking a sweat. Not anymore.....

I have a question, though:

Does spell defense apply against critter powers? (I would say yes) How
about physad powers like killing hands (I would say no).

Comments?

Justin :)
Message no. 14
From: Peter David Boddy <pdboddy@****.CARLETON.CA>
Subject: Re: Manifestation
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 10:35:26 EST
Justin Pinnow writes:
> I just noticed something in the BBB regarding Manifestation: anything with
> this power gets a number of Spell Defense dice equal to its Essence. Ouch!
> I never noticed this before. And here we all thought mages tore up
> spirits without breaking a sweat. Not anymore.....

Ok, just another lurker question, what is the "BBB"?

Pete

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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| aka | Email: pdboddy@******.carleton.ca |
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Message no. 15
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Manifestation
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 10:39:18 -0500
> From: Peter David Boddy <pdboddy@****.CARLETON.CA>
> Date: Sunday, January 11, 1998 10:35 AM

> Justin Pinnow writes:
> > I just noticed something in the BBB regarding Manifestation: anything
with
> > this power gets a number of Spell Defense dice equal to its Essence.
Ouch!
> > I never noticed this before. And here we all thought mages tore up
> > spirits without breaking a sweat. Not anymore.....

> Ok, just another lurker question, what is the "BBB"?

It stands for Big Black Book (the main rulebook).

> Pete

Justin :)
Message no. 16
From: James Paul Morgan <jpmorgan@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Manifestation
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 11:42:33 -0700
On Sun, 11 Jan 1998, Justin Pinnow wrote:

> I just noticed something in the BBB regarding Manifestation: anything with
> this power gets a number of Spell Defense dice equal to its Essence. Ouch!
>

Where is this? I've never seen it either. Could you give us a page
number and a column or something?


> Does spell defense apply against critter powers? (I would say yes) How
> about physad powers like killing hands (I would say no).
>

Why should it apply to critter powers? A mage's magic pool only defends
against incoming spells, so why would the spirit's spell defense dice be
any different.

If it applied to innate critter powers, it would apply to innate physical
adept powers, such as distance strike or nerve strike. It should be
applied uniformly or not at all.


See ya around the Mulberry bush.

--James

:)
Message no. 17
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Manifestation
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 14:10:31 -0500
> From: James Paul Morgan <jpmorgan@***.EDU>
> Date: Sunday, January 11, 1998 1:42 PM

> On Sun, 11 Jan 1998, Justin Pinnow wrote:

> > I just noticed something in the BBB regarding Manifestation: anything
with
> > this power gets a number of Spell Defense dice equal to its Essence.
Ouch!

> Where is this? I've never seen it either. Could you give us a page
> number and a column or something?

BBB pg. 219 First column, under the heading "Manifestation"

> > Does spell defense apply against critter powers? (I would say yes)
How
> > about physad powers like killing hands (I would say no).
> See ya around the Mulberry bush.

> --James

> :)

Justin :)
Message no. 18
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Manifestation
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 20:48:40 +0100
Justin Pinnow said on 10:30/11 Jan 98...

> I just noticed something in the BBB regarding Manifestation: anything with
> this power gets a number of Spell Defense dice equal to its Essence. Ouch!
> I never noticed this before. And here we all thought mages tore up
> spirits without breaking a sweat. Not anymore.....

So that line suddenly appeared out of nothing in your copy of SRII when
you looked at it today too? :)

> I have a question, though:
>
> Does spell defense apply against critter powers? (I would say yes) How
> about physad powers like killing hands (I would say no).

I couldn't find anything about that in PAoE, but it does say there that at
the GM's option, magicians may use their Magic Rating instead of the
normal attribute when resisting a critter power, if the Magic Rating is
higher. Page 125: "Critter powers originate from the same Awakening that
brought magic to the world, and so magicians may have a better chance of
resisting such powers than mundanes."

From there, it's only a short step to allowing spell defense against
critter powers.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
Round here, hey man, I got a lot of time...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

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