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Message no. 1
From: Michael Coleman mscoleman@********.net
Subject: Man & Machine?
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 04:54:27 -0500
Has anyone heard of a release date for Man & Machine?

Mike
Message no. 2
From: Twist0059@***.com Twist0059@***.com
Subject: Man & Machine?
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 05:53:03 EDT
In a message dated 7/7/99 5:52:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
mscoleman@********.net writes:

> Has anyone heard of a release date for Man & Machine?
>
> Mike

Looks still like late August. The cover art is done, and, I believe, all the
writing.




-Twist
Message no. 3
From: Bull bull@*******.net
Subject: Man & Machine?
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 14:59:27 -0400 (EDT)
At 04:54 AM 7/7/99 -0500, Michael Coleman wrote these timeless words:
>Has anyone heard of a release date for Man & Machine?
>
Well, it was supposed to be August, and I think that's still the date
listed on FASA's Web Page, but...

FASA's art and editing are rushing Mechwarrior 3rd Edition (BT RPG) For gen
con, and aren't even sure if it'll be done in time. I'd expect Man and
Machine to be September, more likely... Hopefully Early September :]

Bull
--
Bull -- The Best Ork Decker You Never Met
bull@*******.net ===== bull22@***********.com
http://shadowrun.html.com/users/bull
ICQ: 35931890
====================================================== =
= Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any Fours? = =
======================================================
"Animals have 2 jobs: To taste good and to fit well."
-- Greg Proops, "Vs."
Message no. 4
From: Lehlan Decker DeckerL@******.com
Subject: Man & Machine?
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 14:59:51 -0400
>Well, it was supposed to be August, and I think that's still the date
>listed on FASA's Web Page, but...
>FASA's art and editing are rushing Mechwarrior 3rd Edition (BT RPG)
>For gen con, and aren't even sure if it'll be done in time. I'd expect Man
>and Machine to be September, more likely... Hopefully Early September :]

Grumble....Grumble....<slaps hand over mouth and screams>
I feel much better now. Fasa's quality is improving, but I'll be a happy
camper with all the core books (particulary bioware) are caught up with
3rd ed.

l
Message no. 5
From: Jyster Cap jyster007@*****.com
Subject: Man & Machine?
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 15:45:50 -0700 (PDT)
--- Bull <bull@*******.net> wrote:
> At 04:54 AM 7/7/99 -0500, Michael Coleman wrote
> these timeless words:
> >Has anyone heard of a release date for Man &
> Machine?
> >
> Well, it was supposed to be August, and I think
> that's still the date
> listed on FASA's Web Page, but...

I hope M&M has some new cyberware and bioware,
instead of just rewriting everything and conforming
it to SR3.
_________________________________________________________
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Message no. 6
From: arcady@***.net arcady@***.net
Subject: Man & Machine?
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 99 16:51:40 +700
>> these timeless words:
>> >Has anyone heard of a release date for Man &
>> Machine?
>> >
>> Well, it was supposed to be August, and I think
>> that's still the date
>> listed on FASA's Web Page, but...
>
>I hope M&M has some new cyberware and bioware,
>instead of just rewriting everything and conforming
>it to SR3.

I'm just wondering how they're planning on fitting all that stuff into one book.
I suspect M&M will be quite large in page count and price yet have smaller text
and images than it's predesessors.

Also will it have gear from books like Shadowbeat and NAGTRL or just the SS,
FoF, Shadowtech, and Cybertechnology. In other words will it compile the more
'obscure' gear as well.
Message no. 7
From: Bahamut Mighty Dragon Lord bahamut@**.com
Subject: Man & Machine?
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 20:07:22 -0400
<SNIP>
>
> I'm just wondering how they're planning on fitting all that stuff into one book.
> I suspect M&M will be quite large in page count and price yet have smaller text
> and images than it's predesessors.
>
> Also will it have gear from books like Shadowbeat and NAGTRL or just the SS,
> FoF, Shadowtech, and Cybertechnology. In other words will it compile the more
> 'obscure' gear as well.
>

I understood that Cannon Companion would deal with the weapons like FoF did for SR2 so
thats one lese for M&M
>
Message no. 8
From: Steadfast laughingman@*******.de
Subject: Man & Machine?
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 02:15:57 +0200
And so it came to happen that Jyster Cap wrote:
<snip divination contests>

> I hope M&M has some new cyberware and bioware,
> instead of just rewriting everything and conforming
> it to SR3.

I personally hope that it will be out quite soon, can't await the new toys.
Nanotechnology, I am a bit divided in my feelings with that. I think there
will be great potential, but I fear some kind of abusepossibility. If you
read the right novels (Neal Stephenson, Diamond Age par example) you can
truly be in fear. Well, that is of course if you are on the wrong side of
the SOTA-line. >:)

Uh, BTW, I bloody want M&M right bloddy now! Annyone remembering that old
soot standing in front of that building in Seattle, 2059 or so?
;o)

--

---> Steadfast
The one, the only.
That is, if you do not count the others.
Message no. 9
From: Da Twink Daddy datwinkdaddy@*********.com
Subject: Man & Machine?
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 19:20:26 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: <arcady@***.net>


> >I hope M&M has some new cyberware and bioware,
> >instead of just rewriting everything and conforming
> >it to SR3.
>
> I'm just wondering how they're planning on fitting all that stuff
into one book.
> I suspect M&M will be quite large in page count and price yet have
smaller text
> and images than it's predesessors.
>
> Also will it have gear from books like Shadowbeat and NAGTRL or just
the SS,
> FoF, Shadowtech, and Cybertechnology. In other words will it compile
the more
> 'obscure' gear as well.

Well, some gear that I consider obscure was in SR3, though not with as
in depth descriptions as in the original work (actually, I'm just
guessing I don't have the work it was originally in.)

I think M&M will be HUGE but it will have less atmosphere and more of
a "these are the rules for all that cool stuff you've already read
about" attitude. For example, some of the best parts of Cybertech were
the sections that Hatchetman wrote, I doubt M&M will have _any_ of
those. I will still mention that Cyberware distances you from
humanity, but not from a first-person storyline type thing. Also, a
lot of text in Shadowtech described what might be possible with the
body and how certain systems worked and what was involved in getting
implants. I think a lot of that will be gone or at least trimmed down
a LOT.

I never did like the cyberzombie rules, but they will probably take up
the same number of pages in M&M that they did in Cybertech. About the
only things from SSC they will include will be Cyberware not already
in SR3 and (updated) surgery rules. Probably about the same from FoF,
just the cyberware and descriptions maybe a few rules (but I think
most FoF rules made it into the Companion, right?) I bet the
cyberware, but not the atmosphere, from the books you mentioned will
be in there as well.

Basically I see it as being like a huge gear section. Plus, A chapter
on the effects of cyberware in social situations and within the person
getting them and a chapter on cybermancy and a Chapter on Surgery.
See, I think that's about it. Oh, I bet they'll also have all those
special mucked up rules about different pieces of cyberware affecting
different pieces of bioware and how armor [on cyberparts] doesn't work
like all other SR armor and how strength/quickness/body is impossible
to figure on anyone with more than one cyberpart etc.

Da Twink Daddy
bss03@*******.uark.edu
ICQ# 514984
Message no. 10
From: Steadfast laughingman@*******.de
Subject: Man & Machine?
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 02:22:50 +0200
And so it came to happen that arcady@***.net wrote:
<snip>
> I'm just wondering how they're planning on fitting all that stuff into one book.
> I suspect M&M will be quite large in page count and price yet have smaller text
> and images than it's predesessors.
>
> Also will it have gear from books like Shadowbeat and NAGTRL or just the SS,
> FoF, Shadowtech, and Cybertechnology. In other words will it compile the more
> 'obscure' gear as well.

AFAIC, M&M will "only" Cover everything Cyber and Bio plus some optional
rules. I only guess that the optional rules are all in regard to Bio and
Cyber like using Biotech on a wasted Cyberarm (I really do hope they cover
that one now a bit more clearly as in the StreetSammy)or anything that has
something to do with the more artifical power to the mundanes.
But I truly wonder where they put the Chemicals to like drugs or hyper.
Probably in the CC as they can be most likely be used as Weapons or, in a
way, armor. We'll see.

--

---> Steadfast
The one, the only.
That is, if you do not count the others.
Message no. 11
From: Schizi@***.com Schizi@***.com
Subject: Man & Machine?
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 20:27:01 EDT
In a message dated 7/7/99 7:52:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, arcady@***.net
writes:

> I'm just wondering how they're planning on fitting all that stuff into one
> book.
> I suspect M&M will be quite large in page count and price yet have smaller
> text
> and images than it's predesessors.

I think they will do it more like Cybertechnology, grouping a lot of objects
onto one or two pages.
Message no. 12
From: Bull bull@*******.net
Subject: Man & Machine?
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 20:44:02 -0400 (EDT)
At 04:51 PM 7/7/99 +700, arcady@***.net wrote these timeless words:
>
>I'm just wondering how they're planning on fitting all that stuff into one
book.
>I suspect M&M will be quite large in page count and price yet have smaller
text
>and images than it's predesessors.
>
Probably... As nice as it is to have pictures, I'd rather have three or
four items per page than one witha big picture.

>Also will it have gear from books like Shadowbeat and NAGTRL or just the SS,
>FoF, Shadowtech, and Cybertechnology. In other words will it compile the more
>'obscure' gear as well.
>
It should have all the cyberware... Man and Machine is effectively a
Shadowtech and Cybertechnology update, dealing with Cyberware and Bioware
(Which, as I understand it, Mike wanted to redo some. Not sure if they
went that route or not).

Cannon Companion should have all the Weapons and other misc. gear in it.

Not sure about some of the "obscure" stuff. It may appear there, or end up
being filler in another book, or may eventually get it's own book. Who knows?

Bull
--
Bull -- The Best Ork Decker You Never Met
bull@*******.net ===== bull22@***********.com
http://shadowrun.html.com/users/bull
ICQ: 35931890
====================================================== =
= Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any Fours? = =
======================================================
"Animals have 2 jobs: To taste good and to fit well."
-- Greg Proops, "Vs."
Message no. 13
From: Darrell L. Bowman darrell@******.dhr.state.nc.us
Subject: Man & Machine?
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 00:44:02 -0400
On 7 Jul 99, at 14:59, Lehlan Decker wrote:

> Grumble....Grumble....<slaps hand over mouth and screams>
> I feel much better now. Fasa's quality is improving, but I'll be a happy
> camper with all the core books (particulary bioware) are caught up with
> 3rd ed.

The quality of their sourcebooks hasn't though. They fall apart.

---
I chewed him, but only in self defence,
and I never swallowed.
-- Draco, from DragonHeart
Message no. 14
From: Michael & Linda Frankl mlfrankl@*****.msn.com
Subject: Man & Machine?
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 11:39:51 -0400
Nightshade said:
>The quality of their sourcebooks hasn't though. They fall apart.


That's the damn truth. My player's SR3 Core Rules are falling apart all over
the table. Darrell and Steve both have pages fluttering away. I'm lucky as I
take my core rule book apart anyway and sleeve it in a binder (helps prevent
this exact problem, but unfortunately doubles or triples the size).

What I think would be also a great idea is to do what AD&D did. Their core
rules 2.0 is top notch, plus you can download updates for errors and such
(1.0 wasn't so hot though). I already have 2 players that come to my table
with lap tops and expect to see this trend increase (DLOH hear my words).

;)

Mike, aka Smilin' Jack
Message no. 15
From: Darrell L. Bowman darrell@******.dhr.state.nc.us
Subject: Man & Machine?
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 22:48:32 -0400
On 11 Jul 99, at 11:39, Michael & Linda Frankl wrote:

> What I think would be also a great idea is to do what AD&D did. Their core
> rules 2.0 is top notch, plus you can download updates for errors and such
> (1.0 wasn't so hot though). I already have 2 players that come to my table
> with lap tops and expect to see this trend increase (DLOH hear my words).

Huh????? DLOH????

BTW peoples,.. I'm Nightshade :-)

The only problem with this is probably the same thing I came
up with trying to use my notebook at my Earthdawn game
though. I can look up something in the book quicker than I
could do a search on the ED CD. While it's more compact to
have everything you want on the computer, it's just hard to
beat flipping the pages for speed.

---
Of all my relations, I like sex the best and Eric the least.
--Random, Prince of Amber,
Nine Princes in Amber, by Roger Zelazny


Nightshade, Human Racoon Shaman
or
Raven, Elven Irish Rigger with an attitude.

Darrell Bowman
darrell@******.dhr.state.nc.us
Message no. 16
From: Michael & Linda Frankl mlfrankl@*****.msn.com
Subject: Man & Machine?
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 23:08:06 -0400
Nightshade replied:
>Huh????? DLOH????


Dark Lord on High. Typically refers to people like Mike Mulvihill or
previously Tom Dowd, though from what I gather the term is falling out of
usage.

>BTW peoples,.. I'm Nightshade :-)


And not on fire yet... ;)

>The only problem with this is probably the same thing I came
>up with trying to use my notebook at my Earthdawn game
>though. I can look up something in the book quicker than I
>could do a search on the ED CD. While it's more compact to
>have everything you want on the computer, it's just hard to
>beat flipping the pages for speed.

Yeah, that's why I used the AD&D Core Rules 2.0 as the reference. It is a
lot cooler that the ED CD. It has it's drawbacks too, but is sure as hell
beats dragging around 10+ books that are losing pages. Plus you can make an
archival copy to use when you're gaming and keep the original somewhere
safe, where evil book destroyers can't touch it. Try that with Core Rules
and Source Books. ;)


Back at ya, you pointy eared bastard. :)

Mike, aka Smilin' Jack
Message no. 17
From: Darrell L. Bowman darrell@******.dhr.state.nc.us
Subject: Man & Machine?
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 23:27:21 -0400
On 11 Jul 99, at 23:08, Michael & Linda Frankl wrote:

> Dark Lord on High. Typically refers to people like Mike Mulvihill or
> previously Tom Dowd, though from what I gather the term is falling out of
> usage.
Oh,.. yeah, ok,...

> >BTW peoples,.. I'm Nightshade :-)
>
>
> And not on fire yet... ;)

I think yet is the key word there.

> Yeah, that's why I used the AD&D Core Rules 2.0 as the reference. It is a
> lot cooler that the ED CD. It has it's drawbacks too, but is sure as hell
> beats dragging around 10+ books that are losing pages. Plus you can make
> an archival copy to use when you're gaming and keep the original somewhere
> safe, where evil book destroyers can't touch it. Try that with Core Rules
> and Source Books. ;)

Yeah, you're right about that. If it was done as a program
instead of just HTML it would probably work a lot better.

> Back at ya, you pointy eared bastard. :)

Err,... Nightshade don't have pointy ears,...

But the guy with the Ares Guardian and a Vindicator pointed
at you does,....

---
Of all my relations, I like sex the best and Eric the least.
--Random, Prince of Amber,
Nine Princes in Amber, by Roger Zelazny


Nightshade, Human Racoon Shaman
or
Raven, Elven Irish Rigger with an attitude.

Darrell Bowman
darrell@******.dhr.state.nc.us
Message no. 18
From: Matt Teixeira MMTeixeira@***********.com
Subject: Man & Machine?
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 10:09:51 -0400
> What I think would be also a great idea is to do what AD&D did. Their core
> rules 2.0 is top notch, plus you can download updates for errors and such
> (1.0 wasn't so hot though). I already have 2 players that come to my table
> with lap tops and expect to see this trend increase (DLOH hear my words).
>
>The only problem with this is probably the same thing I came
>up with trying to use my notebook at my Earthdawn game
>though. I can look up something in the book quicker than I
>could do a search on the ED CD. While it's more compact to
>have everything you want on the computer, it's just hard to
>beat flipping the pages for speed.

That all depends upon the speed of your CPU. I like the way the Core Rules
was done and use it more than the books - even on my Pentium 133. All on the
laptop, don't have to cart around a ton of books. All charts and tables
available by lookup.

Would love a Shadowrun equivalent of it....


Matthew M. Teixeira
mteixei1@*****.rr.com
Message no. 19
From: Aaron Binns sparrow@***.net.au
Subject: Man & Machine?
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 16:14:56 +1000
Matt Teixeira wrote:

> > What I think would be also a great idea is to do what AD&D did. Their core
> > rules 2.0 is top notch, plus you can download updates for errors and such
> > (1.0 wasn't so hot though). I already have 2 players that come to my table
> > with lap tops and expect to see this trend increase (DLOH hear my words).
> >
> >The only problem with this is probably the same thing I came
> >up with trying to use my notebook at my Earthdawn game
> >though. I can look up something in the book quicker than I
> >could do a search on the ED CD. While it's more compact to
> >have everything you want on the computer, it's just hard to
> >beat flipping the pages for speed.
>
> That all depends upon the speed of your CPU. I like the way the Core Rules
> was done and use it more than the books - even on my Pentium 133. All on the
> laptop, don't have to cart around a ton of books. All charts and tables
> available by lookup.
>
> Would love a Shadowrun equivalent of it....
>
> Matthew M. Teixeira
> mteixei1@*****.rr.com

Yeah but remember that fasa would likely get fasa interactive to do the CD, and
that fasa intereactive is owned by
micro-"death-to-all-who-oppose-the-great-billy-gates"-soft. Do you think that:
A; it would be cheap and affordable?
B: It wouldnt crash your machine or the OS or the program every 10 minutes?
C: It would be usable on anything other than a microsoft OS?
D: It would be out in time to be used in SR3 before SR4 comes out?
E: Wouldnt rewuire a new purchase every time there was an update?

Sorry but I use linux..and that should explain the above easily :)

As for a serious contribution - Id like to see it too. Are there any programmers
out there who might be willing to wizz something up and try to pass it through
for shareware usage licence by Fasa?

GreyWolf
Message no. 20
From: Twist0059@***.com Twist0059@***.com
Subject: Man & Machine?
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 02:55:18 EDT
In a message dated 7/13/99 2:15:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
sparrow@***.net.au writes:

> D: It would be out in time to be used in SR3 before SR4 comes out?


Not another fraggin' edition! {s scream.wav
I truly hope we don't see Shadowrun 4th Edition for another decade at the
very least, maybe never. All the mechanics (except SOTA) are finally working
smoothly and quickly, and we're almost done with the complete rules expansion
set overhall. It only took ten years, but finally we're approaching the
point where all of SR works in concert. So, of course, this means another
Matrix rules change is just a couple years away. :-) j/k



-Twist
Message no. 21
From: Jyster Cap jyster007@*****.com
Subject: Man & Machine
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 14:28:17 -0700 (PDT)
Have we got a timeframe for when Man & Machine
will be at the retailers? Early, mid, late
September? December? ;)
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Message no. 22
From: Twist0059@***.com Twist0059@***.com
Subject: Man & Machine
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 21:32:20 EDT
In a message dated 8/17/99 5:28:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
jyster007@*****.com writes:

> Have we got a timeframe for when Man & Machine
> will be at the retailers? Early, mid, late
> September? December? ;)


Late September/ Early October



-Twist
Message no. 23
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Man & Machine
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 11:10:53 +0200
According to Sebastian Wiers, at 23:14 on 23 Oct 99, the word on the
street was...

> :per the new
> :MaM rules
>
> F###ing "draft" folder glitch...
>
> Oh well.

On the subject of that book, I talked to Mike Mulvihill at Spiel '99 in
Essen yesterday and for those waiting for MaM, I guess the good news is
that he said it's gone to the printers, and IIRC he expects to see it on
his desk when he gets back to his office next week; apparently, it'll be a
144-page book. The bd news is that although we were promised simsense
rules, those will actually go into the Cannon Companion for reasons of
space -- MaM was up to 200 pages at one point, so they had to cut some
bits.

Oh, and "hi" to Arclight, Andreas, Arcaist, Watcher Spirit, and anyone
else I met yesterday :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Remember that all the items in the equipment lists are obviously
not available anywhere." --Gemini RPG, p. 100
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 24
From: Arcaist arcaist@*****.de
Subject: Man & Machine
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 22:54:30 +0200
> Oh, and "hi" to Arclight, Andreas, Arcaist, Watcher Spirit, and
anyone
> else I met yesterday :)

And "hi" to you, too :) ! I had my limited "Proteus Security Card"
signed by Mike M. You shoud've seen his face when I asked him to write
"Grounding is dead - thank god!"... *gg*

--
(>) Arcaist
WHO'S NEXT ?!

MMLX ::: www.s-s-r.de
Message no. 25
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Man & Machine
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 11:59:27 +0200
According to Arcaist, at 22:54 on 24 Oct 99, the word on the street was...

> And "hi" to you, too :) ! I had my limited "Proteus Security
Card"
> signed by Mike M. You shoud've seen his face when I asked him to write
> "Grounding is dead - thank god!"... *gg*

At least it's better than what he wrote on the pass one of my players
asked him to sign... ;)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Remember that all the items in the equipment lists are obviously
not available anywhere." --Gemini RPG, p. 100
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

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