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From:	lutra@******.com (Eve Forward)
Subject:	Martial Arts (forwarded)
Date:	Mon, 30 Oct 1995 08:45:37 -0800

Message no. 1 Adam Getchell has asked me to forward this to the list because
his mailer is giving him trouble.

___________________________________________________________

>On Tue, 24 Oct 1995, Sebastian Wiers wrote:
>
>Talking of which, has anyone got any ideas on extra special moves for
>those martial arts -I was hoping each would have a special advantage and
>3 special moves.
>
>Any other comments?

Martial Arts aren't constructed on the 'special advantage and 3 special
moves' of coin-op arcade games or movies. Each martial art has areas that
it concentrates on and a style of techniques that is difficult to
understand without studying the art in some detail. Even then, it might be
easy to talk about Tae Kwon Do or Muay Thai specializing in kicks without
really understanding what this entails. Heck, even different kwans or
schools of Tea Kwon Do have different ways of delivering the same kick!

And then there are styles like Jujitsu (any of several dozen schools) or
Hapkido that do practically everything. Or styles like Capeoira or Aikido
that do particular things well and don't worry about the other things.

Personally, I'd go with the specific techniques as given in the Shadowrun
rule book. For example:

Front Strike Throw (Kata-Tori Irimi Nage):

This technique is used to counterattack an attack. Success renders opponent
on the ground for (Opponents' Body)M Stun and in position for an arm pin,
such as Ikkyo Ude-Osae or Yonkyo Tekubi-Osae.

The above technique is an Aikido one. The Hapkido variant would also
subject the opponent to a knife hand to the neck and probably inflict
damage to the neck (as the striking knife-hand then wraps around the neck
for a dropping shoulder throw), at the cost of increased difficulty. Since
the same techniques can be interpreted differently for each martial art,
there's no practical way of limiting a martial art to an advantage and 3
special moves.

Just my comments. ;-)
>
> The Digital Mage : mn3rge@****.ac.uk
> Shadowrun Web Site under construction at
> http://www.bath.ac.uk/~mn3rge/Shadowrun.html

=================================================================
Adam Getchell
acgetche@*********.engr.ucdavis.edu
http://it-training.ucdavis.edu/html/getchell.html
=================================================================

"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability in the opponent."
-- Sun Tzu

From:	The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.ac.uk>
Subject:	Re: Martial Arts (forwarded)
Date:	Mon, 30 Oct 1995 17:34:47 +0000 (GMT)

Message no. 2 On Mon, 30 Oct 1995, Eve Forward wrote:

> Martial Arts aren't constructed on the 'special advantage and 3 special
> moves' of coin-op arcade games or movies. Each martial art has areas that
> it concentrates on and a style of techniques that is difficult to
> understand without studying the art in some detail. Even then, it might be
> easy to talk about Tae Kwon Do or Muay Thai specializing in kicks without
> really understanding what this entails. Heck, even different kwans or
> schools of Tea Kwon Do have different ways of delivering the same kick!
I realise this fact -but for the purposes of an RPG with a definite
number of rules and way of doing things a compromise has to be struck.

> Personally, I'd go with the specific techniques as given in the Shadowrun
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> rule book. For example:
^^^^^^^^^
Where are these specific techniques? The ones under teh skill
specialisation?

> Front Strike Throw (Kata-Tori Irimi Nage):
>
> This technique is used to counterattack an attack. Success renders opponent
> on the ground for (Opponents' Body)M Stun and in position for an arm pin,
> such as Ikkyo Ude-Osae or Yonkyo Tekubi-Osae.
>
I have tried with my martial arts to give a multitude of variations by
combining techniques and special effects. An example (going from the
above example) could be:
Aikido Wrist lock combining the special effects of a Sweep/Takedown and
Lock.

Or perhaps the basic Grapple maneuver (but rolling the Aikido rating)
combining with the Special Effect of Throw (the actual description of
this could be a heavy takedown or a literal throw).

Or perhaps the Avoid Multiple Opponents maneuver with the Sweep/Takedown
and Stun effects.

> The above technique is an Aikido one. The Hapkido variant would also
> subject the opponent to a knife hand to the neck and probably inflict
> damage to the neck (as the striking knife-hand then wraps around the neck
> for a dropping shoulder throw)

Even though there is no Hapkido M Art write up for my system yet the
above could be simulated with the basic Techniques:

Grapple with Takedown and a 'one-off' special effect (GM discretion) of
Knife-Hand strike: 2 successes Damage (Str)M can't be staged up.

Or maybe Grapple with a Lock -next turn maintain teh grapple and be able
to inflict damage and then throw causing even more damage.

> the same techniques can be interpreted differently for each martial art,
> there's no practical way of limiting a martial art to an advantage and 3
> special moves.
The 3 special manuevers and a general advantage are soemthing EXTRA that
can only be gained if the Martial Art Concentration is taken. The
description of the M Arts includes a list of the BAsic Techniques
available while using that M Art.

> Just my comments. ;-)
And readily welcomed -at least its some feedback (hint hint :)

The Digital Mage : mn3rge@****.ac.uk
Shadowrun Web Site under construction at
http://www.bath.ac.uk/~mn3rge/Shadowrun.html

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