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From:	TopCat <topcat@******.net>
Subject:	Martial Arts in SRII
Date:	Mon, 15 Jan 1996 14:24:25 -0600

Message no. 1 One of the fave subjects of the list... heheh

As far as martial arts rules, me and a few of my local cohorts endeavored to
create a perfect martial arts system along Shadowrun lines. Here's what we
basically decided.

1) No 100% accurate system is possible if you want to get thru at least 1
fight per session.

2) Assume that the unarmed combat skill is defined as a martial art or
fighting style.

3) If someone really wishes to specialize (rules-lawyering the subject to
the breaking point) then say that they can. But, they only get the bonus
dice for specialization when they are fighting someone who is using that
style and they, themselves, are using that style. Works with the rules and
tones down the munching.

4) Order a copy of Hero Games' _Ultimate Martial Artist_ handbook. It's
supposed to have rules for conversion to SRII. I'm still awaiting my copy
so I don't know how well it works out. Anyone out there tried it?

-- TopCat

From:	turing@******.com (Mark Perneta)
Subject:	Re: Martial Arts in SRII
Date:	Mon, 15 Jan 1996 13:07:33 -0800 (PST)

Message no. 2 > One of the fave subjects of the list... heheh

Oh, good. I love a controversy!

> As far as martial arts rules, me and a few of my local cohorts endeavored to
> create a perfect martial arts system along Shadowrun lines. Here's what we
> basically decided.
>
> 1) No 100% accurate system is possible if you want to get thru at least 1
> fight per session.

Well, if you look at HERO, no system that is even 80% accurate is
possible if you want more than one fight. Simplicity is the key here.

> 2) Assume that the unarmed combat skill is defined as a martial art or
> fighting style.
>
> 3) If someone really wishes to specialize (rules-lawyering the subject to
> the breaking point) then say that they can. But, they only get the bonus
> dice for specialization when they are fighting someone who is using that
> style and they, themselves, are using that style. Works with the rules and
> tones down the munching.

But it loses a bit in flavor. I think there's a middle ground,
and I've been working with UMA (see later comments) to try and come up
with something.

> 4) Order a copy of Hero Games' _Ultimate Martial Artist_ handbook. It's
> supposed to have rules for conversion to SRII. I'm still awaiting my copy
> so I don't know how well it works out. Anyone out there tried it?

The phrase you are looking for here is "blows spiky chunks." UMA
by itself is a great book, and we use it to play HERO with. The SR2
conversions are horrible. The idea behind them is just to take the
maneuver you are using (direct from UMA) and use the TN adjustment.
Unfortunately, it lacks a few things. Like, how is it decided how you
get these maneuvers in your skill list? Is there a "default mode," or
once I select a maneuver in one of my actions, am I then in that "mode"
until the start of my next action when I choose a new one?
Overall, UMA is good source for building arts under SR2. As far
as specific rules, leave them with the HERO system.

Mark.

--
TURING@******.COM | TURING@**.COM |Finger TURING@******.COM for PGP Key
"Oh, wait! No! What if we want | 1024/AA575951 1994/07/17
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The opinions expressed in this post do not reflect the views of normal,
non-drooling people.

From:	"Mark Steedman" <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject:	Re: Martial Arts in SRII
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 1996 08:49:04 GMT

Message no. 3 Mark Perneta writes
[trim]
>
> Well, if you look at HERO, no system that is even 80% accurate is
> possible if you want more than one fight. Simplicity is the key here.
>
> > 4) Order a copy of Hero Games' _Ultimate Martial Artist_ handbook. It's
> > supposed to have rules for conversion to SRII. I'm still awaiting my copy
> > so I don't know how well it works out. Anyone out there tried it?
>
> The phrase you are looking for here is "blows spiky chunks." UMA
> by itself is a great book, and we use it to play HERO with. The SR2
> conversions are horrible. The idea behind them is just to take the
> maneuver you are using (direct from UMA) and use the TN adjustment.
> Unfortunately, it lacks a few things. Like, how is it decided how you
> get these maneuvers in your skill list? Is there a "default mode," or
> once I select a maneuver in one of my actions, am I then in that "mode"
> until the start of my next action when I choose a new one?
> Overall, UMA is good source for building arts under SR2. As far
> as specific rules, leave them with the HERO system.
>
> Mark.
>
I have been using the Hero system stuff ok though only one player
really tried to take advantage of it. The problem is that the
conversions as printed don't really explain what to add the bonuses
to and are in terms of 1st edition auto successes e.t.c. I converted
the bonuses to bonus dice e.t.c. and ended up with about three pages
of notes sorting out what you add to what, when you can use it and
mostly dealing with the special attacks such as joint break and so on
(little is needed to use the basic stuff)
I just use the standard SR skills as skill plus/minus OCV bonus as
dice (TN variations are far too powerful in SR), and you are allowed
a max of manouvers equal to a matrial arts skill, general covers all,
concentration a group and specialisation just your art, now charge
karma equal to hero system costs for each manouver. Yes its expensive
but it works moderately well, i don't know anything like enough about
reality for accuratcy (a reason to use someone elses system). The +4
power for an offensive strike (as opposed to hero +4D6 damage) is
still really really lethal! (might be better at SR power +1/2 hero DC
bonus) you can wind trolls past power 24 without the game dealiness
variations mentioned in behind the sceens, add dikoted katana welcome
Dragon burgers (though i very much doubt the dragon would be silly
enough to get in the way somehow)

Mark

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