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Message no. 1
From: "V.A.L.I.S." <campbellcc@***.HENDRIX.EDU>
Subject: Matrix 2.0 (version 2.0)
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 14:17:30 +0100
Ok, maybe my last question was a little vauge...
I'm mainly intrested in 2 things, how does the armor program reduce
damage, and where does hardening apply. I think I have the rest figured
out. (and if I don't I'm going to make it up as I go along by god! ;-> )
You know... the list tend to focus a whole lot more on magic then
either combat/cyber, or the 'trix... I wonder why that is???


Sincerely,

Courtney C. Campbell...
(Male-Agnostic-Heterosexual-American)

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* Courtney C. Campbell *
* Campbellcc@*****.hendrix.edu *
* Http://www.hendrix.edu/homes/stu/campbellcc/ *
* ____| *
* |_|__ "I am not mad. *
* | I am intrested in freedom." *
* -James Douglas Morrison *
*---------------------------------------------------------------------*
* "Remember, no matter where you go, there you are." -Buckaroo Banzai *
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Matter is plastic in the face of mind
-Tractates Cryptica Scriptura
Phillip Kindred Dick/VALIS
Message no. 2
From: MC23 <mc23@****.NET>
Subject: Re: Matrix 2.0 (version 2.0)
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 15:41:50 -0500
V.A.L.I.S.wrote,
>Subject: Matrix 2.0
>In matrix 2.0 what is the resisted test to hit. I.E. I can find the target
>numbers, but then the decker rolls what dice (how many) to hit, and the IC
>rolls what dice to resist (system rating?). And inversely, The IC rolls
>system rating against target number, and the decker resists damage with
>?bod?, and does armor program cut the number of success? or does it just
>automatically stage down the damage? And where is hardening applied. (I'm
>refering to killer/blaster IC, i.e. as in the kind that just does damage to
>the decks condition moniter.
> You notice also, that it never gives a description of what the
>different parts of the deck do? It just tells what it costs to build them
>(i.e. _hardening_) I've been looking over the rules for two days, and if
>I've missed something simple I'm sorry. Cybercombat is pretty complex, and
>I'm having a _lot_ of trouble figureing out which dice to roll against
>what, that's my main problem. Is there any resource on the net that makes
>this clear? I haven't even opened the black book due to the sentence "the
>rules presented in VR 2.0 replace all previously published Shadowrun Matrix
>rules (unless noted otherwise)."
>
>ack! help!
Eek, I've always hit this wall with matrix rules. Since our (my
friends and I) first few attepts at decking convinced us it took too much
away from the central part of our game we have left decking up to NPC's
and plot devices. Since VR2.0 I've been meaning to tackle these new
rules to see if Deckers could be more easily added to the group.
As far as definitions of what the parts of the deck does, that
hasn't changed. The major changes were in using it all. Anyway you may
have to return to SRII rulebook for those parts. I would also suggetst
what I have planned to get used to the new rules before I add them to my
game. Go to Paolo Marcucci's Shadowrun Archive (
http://www.interware.it/shadowrun/ ) and try his Matrix 2.0 Online Host
generator for some test Nodes to try the rules on. It's a great little
web program to use.

V.A.L.I.S. also wrote,
>Subject: Matrix 2.0 (version 2.0)
>Ok, maybe my last question was a little vauge...
> I'm mainly intrested in 2 things, how does the armor program reduce
>damage, and where does hardening apply. I think I have the rest figured
>out. (and if I don't I'm going to make it up as I go along by god! ;-> )
I'd have to search the rules as well. Matrix is still this beast for
me.
> You know... the list tend to focus a whole lot more on magic then
>either combat/cyber, or the 'trix... I wonder why that is???
Cuz, the Matrix is this big scary place so I run away in fear.<grin>
I think a few others might have used similiar cop outs on Deckers like I
have. Then again, the Matrix could be this pure place where the rules
never cause confusion.



Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal
names more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves,
they answered to another name, because if another discovered their real
name, it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 3
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Matrix 2.0 (version 2.0)
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 14:49:06 -0700
V.A.L.I.S. wrote:
|
| I'm mainly intrested in 2 things, how does the armor program reduce
| damage, and where does hardening apply. I think I have the rest figured
| out. (and if I don't I'm going to make it up as I go along by god! ;-> )

Okay, armor is effective against White, Grey and Black IC. Hardening is
only effective against Black IC. If you're going up against Black IC you
get to add the Armor and Hardening together when it attacks you (you may
think that's a bonus, but it's not, Black IC is tough). I can't remember
exactly how armor and hardening work (subtracts from the rating of the
IC?).

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 4
From: Ted Cabeen <cabeen@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Matrix 2.0 (version 2.0)
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 16:02:46 -0800
At 03:41 PM 1/8/97 -0500, you wrote:
>V.A.L.I.S.wrote,
>>Subject: Matrix 2.0
>>In matrix 2.0 what is the resisted test to hit. I.E. I can find the target
>>numbers, but then the decker rolls what dice (how many) to hit, and the IC
>>rolls what dice to resist (system rating?). And inversely, The IC rolls
>>system rating against target number, and the decker resists damage with
>>?bod?, and does armor program cut the number of success? or does it just
>>automatically stage down the damage? And where is hardening applied. (I'm
>>refering to killer/blaster IC, i.e. as in the kind that just does damage to
>>the decks condition moniter.
The attack test is not resisted. It is just like attacking in regular
combat. The decker rolls computer skill plus hacking pool(if any) against
the listed target number. He gets X successes. If he hits, he does damage
equal to the base damage of the attack program with a power of it's rating,
staged up by the X successes. (pg. 48) The GM then rolls a number of dice
equal to the Security Value against a target number of the Power of the
attack, reduced by any armor the IC has(Armor is an IC option). The number
of successes the IC gets stages the damage down just like in regular combat.
When the decker is attacked by IC, the IC rolls a number of dice equal to
the Security Rating against the given Target number. If it hits, it does
damage with power equal to the IC's rating, with a damage code that is
dependent on the system that is running it. (M on Blue and Green, S on
Orange and Red/p. 41) This damage is staged up by the number of successes
that the IC got on its test. The decker then rolls Bod dice against the
attack with the power reduced by the rating of his armor program and
hardening. (see below for my discussion on hardening) The number of
successes stages down like normal.
The decker always rolls Computer skill when it dosen't say otherwise and
can add hacking pool dice to that if necessary. The IC rolls Security
Value always, unless it says otherwise because it is the computer which is
attacking, using the IC as a weapon.
> Eek, I've always hit this wall with matrix rules. Since our (my
>friends and I) first few attepts at decking convinced us it took too much
>away from the central part of our game we have left decking up to NPC's
>and plot devices. Since VR2.0 I've been meaning to tackle these new
>rules to see if Deckers could be more easily added to the group.
I had the same problem. If I can get a player who wants to play a decker,
I'm planning on sitting down with them and working out the decking rules.
I think I have them now.
> As far as definitions of what the parts of the deck does, that
>hasn't changed. The major changes were in using it all. Anyway you may
>have to return to SRII rulebook for those parts.
Some things have changed though. The ASIST stuff is new, and there is no
load speed, or limits on the amout of Active or Storage memory one can put
in a deck. The ICCM filer is cool, and the max response increase is now 3.
>> I'm mainly intrested in 2 things, how does the armor program reduce
>>damage, and where does hardening apply. I think I have the rest figured
>>out. (and if I don't I'm going to make it up as I go along by god! ;-> )
Okay, I found it. Armor and Hardening work the same way. Hardening is
just permanent Armor that also help against black and grey IC. Both reduce
the power of the attack against the player just like armor in regular
combat. Although it dosen't really say this directly, it does mention it
in the Black IC section, where it says that Black IC's power is reduced by
Hardening, but not Armor when attacking the Decker's meat body. I think
that Hardening should act as permanent armor. In the old system, it did
the same thing as the Armor program did, but on a permanent basis. (If you
look at Fastjack's quote in Shadowtech concerning Hardening in C2 decks, he
says exactly this.) Since Armor has changed to now reduce the power of
attacks against you, I figure hardening should also change to reflect the
new rules and reduce power just like the armor program. I think I got it
all. If you've got any questions, don't hesitate.
--
______________________________________________________________________________
Ted Cabeen http://shadowland.rh.uchicago.edu cabeen@******.com
Check Website or finger for PGP Public Key secabeen@******.uchicago.edu
"I have taken all knowledge to be my province." -F. Bacon cococabeen@***.com
"Human kind cannot bear very much reality."-T.S.Eliot 73126.626@**********.com
Message no. 5
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Matrix 2.0 (version 2.0)
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 14:46:18 +0100
David Buehrer said on 14:49/ 8 Jan 97...

> Okay, armor is effective against White, Grey and Black IC. Hardening is
> only effective against Black IC. If you're going up against Black IC you
> get to add the Armor and Hardening together when it attacks you (you may
> think that's a bonus, but it's not, Black IC is tough). I can't remember
> exactly how armor and hardening work (subtracts from the rating of the
> IC?).

One thing that bugs me about VR2.0 is the way the rules are all over the
place, instead of nicely grouped together. The index isn't much help in
finding out what, for example, Hardening does either -- it gives page
numbers for the construction, and that's about it.
Like I said in the other message, you'll need to read the descriptions of
each piece of IC to find out how it's affected by Hardening.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Why are these dudes all dressed up in white?
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 6
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Matrix 2.0 (version 2.0)
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 14:46:18 +0100
V.A.L.I.S. said on 14:17/ 8 Jan 97...

> I'm mainly intrested in 2 things, how does the armor program reduce
> damage, and where does hardening apply. I think I have the rest figured
> out. (and if I don't I'm going to make it up as I go along by god! ;-> )

Armor reduces the Power Level of an incoming attack. For example, if a
Killer-5 attacks you in an Orange host, you resist 5S damage; with an
Armor-2 running on your deck, you resist only 3S.

The function of Hardening is very well hidden in the VR2.0 book, but its
use is explained under the various IC descriptions starting on page 38...
For example, against Blaster it increases the IC's TN, while against
Killer it's useless, and against Black IC it gives extra armor.

> You know... the list tend to focus a whole lot more on magic then
> either combat/cyber, or the 'trix... I wonder why that is???

Perhaps because a lot of people don't like the matrix all that much
(especially before VR2.0 came out), and because computers are a lot
better-known (IRL) than magic is.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Why are these dudes all dressed up in white?
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
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Message no. 7
From: Ted Cabeen <cabeen@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Matrix 2.0 (version 2.0)
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 10:52:37 -0800
At 02:46 PM 1/9/97 +0100, you wrote:
>V.A.L.I.S. said on 14:17/ 8 Jan 97...
>
>> I'm mainly intrested in 2 things, how does the armor program reduce
>> damage, and where does hardening apply. I think I have the rest figured
>> out. (and if I don't I'm going to make it up as I go along by god! ;-> )
>
>Armor reduces the Power Level of an incoming attack. For example, if a
>Killer-5 attacks you in an Orange host, you resist 5S damage; with an
>Armor-2 running on your deck, you resist only 3S.
>
>The function of Hardening is very well hidden in the VR2.0 book, but its
>use is explained under the various IC descriptions starting on page 38...
>For example, against Blaster it increases the IC's TN, while against
>Killer it's useless, and against Black IC it gives extra armor.
I disagree. I think Hardening acts as permanent Armor, as it did in SRII,
and it also has special effects against Blaster and Black IC because it
defends against The Blaster's MPCP blast and against THe Black's frying,
which Armor dosen't help. These are special cases, so that's why they are
mentioned.

BTW: Did my other Matrix 2.0 message go through? It was really long, and I
think it might have died.
--
______________________________________________________________________________
Ted Cabeen http://shadowland.rh.uchicago.edu cabeen@******.com
Check Website or finger for PGP Public Key secabeen@******.uchicago.edu
"I have taken all knowledge to be my province." -F. Bacon cococabeen@***.com
"Human kind cannot bear very much reality."-T.S.Eliot 73126.626@**********.com
Message no. 8
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Matrix 2.0 (version 2.0)
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 11:58:53 +0100
Ted Cabeen said on 10:52/ 9 Jan 97...

> I disagree. I think Hardening acts as permanent Armor, as it did in SRII,
> and it also has special effects against Blaster and Black IC because it
> defends against The Blaster's MPCP blast and against THe Black's frying,
> which Armor dosen't help. These are special cases, so that's why they are
> mentioned.

I spent quite some time yesterday looking through VR2.0 (it was some time
since I'd read it) and the only rules for Hardening I could find were
those in the IC chapter, and for constructing it... The Cyberbombat rules
don't mention whether or not Hardening should be used as armor against all
attacks, so it would help if anyone has a definite source for the exact
uses of Hardening...

> BTW: Did my other Matrix 2.0 message go through? It was really long, and I
> think it might have died.

I don't think I've seen it yet, but I still have about 200 mails to go
through...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Why are these dudes all dressed up in white?
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Version 3.1:
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Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
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