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Message no. 1
From: Shad Owens <shadow@******.LINFIELD.EDU>
Subject: Matrix awakening
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:13:47 -0800
On Tue, 3 Dec 1996, Brian W Allison wrote:
>
> > That's why all the hot deckers own filters.
>
> Deckers are soon to be the way of the past - when the Matrix is done
> Awakening.
>
> We dance, we laugh, we live - where it matters.


Hey! Don't *say* that sort of thing! *shudders*
How have your games reflected the idea of magic mixing with the 'trix?
The idea of the Matrix Awakening? I don't really mean the Otaku,
although they are a part of it. (I'm just looking for Ideas, 'cause my
GM has occasionally mentioned the idea of magic in the 'trix while
grinning evilly towards me... I think he just likes to see me cringe...)
Jennie
Message no. 2
From: Timothy P Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 12:32:55 -0800
> On Tue, 3 Dec 1996, Brian W Allison wrote:
> >
> > > That's why all the hot deckers own filters.
> >
> > Deckers are soon to be the way of the past - when the Matrix is done
> > Awakening.
> >
> > We dance, we laugh, we live - where it matters.
>
>
> Hey! Don't *say* that sort of thing! *shudders*
> How have your games reflected the idea of magic mixing with the 'trix?
> The idea of the Matrix Awakening? I don't really mean the Otaku,
> although they are a part of it. (I'm just looking for Ideas, 'cause my
> GM has occasionally mentioned the idea of magic in the 'trix while
> grinning evilly towards me... I think he just likes to see me cringe...)
> Jennie

I, personally, as a rule have declared that the Matrix and Magic are at opposite
ends of the spectrum and have (and can have) nothing to do with each other. I
remember one comment in the rule book that supported this...I forget where it
was or exactly what it said...I'll look it up.

~Tim
Message no. 3
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 12:48:09 +0100
Timothy P Cooper said on 12:32/ 4 Dec 96...

> I, personally, as a rule have declared that the Matrix and Magic are at
> opposite ends of the spectrum and have (and can have) nothing to do with
> each other. I remember one comment in the rule book that supported
> this...I forget where it was or exactly what it said...I'll look it up.

Virtual Realities (the original, not 2.0) talks about integrating magic
and matrix -- rules-wise, it directs the GM to add either the PC's Magic
attribute or Sorcery skill to all matrix TNs when a magically active
character wants to go decking.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Het is weer Sinterklaas!
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
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Message no. 4
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:03:26 +0000
Jennie wrote,

> > Deckers are soon to be the way of the past - when the Matrix is done
> > Awakening.

> Hey! Don't *say* that sort of thing! *shudders*
> How have your games reflected the idea of magic mixing with the 'trix?
> The idea of the Matrix Awakening? I don't really mean the Otaku,

I kinda like the theory that someone out there has been forcing the
Matrix to develop into a certain pattern. This person has,
unfortunately screwed up a couple of times and had to start over from
scratch. (Inet worm and crash of 29) Will this pattern be magical in
nature or turn the matrix into its own conciousness <sp>? Who
knows.


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
Message no. 5
From: Timothy P Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 13:42:45 -0800
>
> Jennie wrote,
>
> > > Deckers are soon to be the way of the past - when the Matrix is done
> > > Awakening.
>
> > Hey! Don't *say* that sort of thing! *shudders*
> > How have your games reflected the idea of magic mixing with the 'trix?
> > The idea of the Matrix Awakening? I don't really mean the Otaku,
>
> I kinda like the theory that someone out there has been forcing the
> Matrix to develop into a certain pattern. This person has,
> unfortunately screwed up a couple of times and had to start over from
> scratch. (Inet worm and crash of 29) Will this pattern be magical in
> nature or turn the matrix into its own conciousness <sp>? Who
> knows.
>
>
> --Droopy
> droopy@**.net

Start playing MAGE: The Ascention, or at least look at the sections pertaining
to Virtual Adepts and the Digital Web (and of course the Technocracy) for ideas
on a TRULY AWAKENED MATRIX.

~Tim
Message no. 6
From: The Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 09:30:55 +1100
> > I, personally, as a rule have declared that the Matrix and Magic are at
> > opposite ends of the spectrum and have (and can have) nothing to do with
> > each other. I remember one comment in the rule book that supported
> > this...I forget where it was or exactly what it said...I'll look it up.
>
> Virtual Realities (the original, not 2.0) talks about integrating magic
> and matrix -- rules-wise, it directs the GM to add either the PC's Magic
> attribute or Sorcery skill to all matrix TNs when a magically active
> character wants to go decking.

We modified that for adepts (ie Priority B=Magic characters) who *can't*
see astral (eg not including Phys Ads who have bought Astral Perception).
For them we made it half the modifier; ie a MR of 4 would give +2 to all
TNs. We figured that the huge modifier was at least partly due to
disorientation in the Matrix because of familiarity with Astral Space. For
those who can't ever see it, well, why should they suffer?

Lady Jestyr

--------------------------------------------------
A titanic intellect... in a world full of icebergs
--------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.oz.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503
--------------------------------------------------
Message no. 7
From: Midn Daniel O Fredrikson <m992148@****.NAVY.MIL>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:54:02 -0500
>
> > > Deckers are soon to be the way of the past - when the Matrix is done
> > > Awakening.
>
> > Hey! Don't *say* that sort of thing! *shudders*
> > How have your games reflected the idea of magic mixing with the 'trix?
> > The idea of the Matrix Awakening? I don't really mean the Otaku,
>
> I kinda like the theory that someone out there has been forcing the
> Matrix to develop into a certain pattern. This person has,
> unfortunately screwed up a couple of times and had to start over from
> scratch. (Inet worm and crash of 29) Will this pattern be magical in
> nature or turn the matrix into its own conciousness <sp>? Who
> knows.

Isn't the denver matrix inhabited by a spirit or something?
Message no. 8
From: Brian W Allison <ballison@*******.WAM.UMD.EDU>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 18:12:13 -0500
On Wed, 4 Dec 1996, Shad Owens wrote:

> On Tue, 3 Dec 1996, Brian W Allison wrote:
> >
> > > That's why all the hot deckers own filters.
> >
> > Deckers are soon to be the way of the past - when the Matrix is done
> > Awakening.
> >
> > We dance, we laugh, we live - where it matters.
>
>
> Hey! Don't *say* that sort of thing! *shudders*
> How have your games reflected the idea of magic mixing with the 'trix?
> The idea of the Matrix Awakening? I don't really mean the Otaku,
> although they are a part of it. (I'm just looking for Ideas, 'cause my
> GM has occasionally mentioned the idea of magic in the 'trix while
> grinning evilly towards me... I think he just likes to see me cringe...)
> Jennie


I'll keep this short. No, please, please, no applause.


Read "The Emperor's New Mind". Good Book on the concepts of Strong AI.


When you get to the part where he describes that 'personality may just
be a configuration - that is, the configuration of your component parts
[cellular level, atomic level, etc - but mostly cellular - Brian] in
relation to each other, thus allowing Quantum Mechanics to give *some*
credence to the Strong AI theory."

Just realize that instead of just an internal configuration, our
'personality' may be the configuration of our parts - in relation to all
other quantum particles in the universe.

That they'd only be affected by each other seems a bit blinding to the
nature of quantum patterns.

While this doesn't affect the concept of "Can an 'AI' exist?", it does
destroy the concept that if you use a Star Trek style 'transporter' - that
you'd be the same person. You couldnt' be.





More on the SR theme, my players have heard rumors that there ar those
who can run the Matrix without a deck.
To them, that's a new kind of magic.

When I play, my Otaku doesn't try to understand *what* he is in the form
of an analytical "why can I do this?", but rather he tries to become
better than he is. That requires understanding the Matrix of course.
Does he think it's alive? It certainly has patterns that are reminiscent
of the way that things work in the Waiting Time (Real Life to most of the
world). Only, in the Matrix the patterns are *far* more interesting.

:)


Brian W. Allison

Computer Scientist Vocalist Would-be Poet Bicycler Scuba Diver
Hacker(0xca) Nerd(79) GenX(21) #include <witticism.h>
http://www.wam.umd.edu/~ballison

--- Unsolicited Commercial E-Mail is not welcome at this account ---
--- and will result in a US$500 fee per US Code Title 47 Sec 227. ---
Message no. 9
From: Midn Daniel O Fredrikson <m992148@****.NAVY.MIL>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 18:56:50 -0500
>
> While this doesn't affect the concept of "Can an 'AI' exist?", it does
> destroy the concept that if you use a Star Trek style 'transporter' - that
> you'd be the same person. You couldnt' be.
>
For argument sake, how about magical teleportation? Does it exist, or is
it just a figiment of fantasy?
Message no. 10
From: Max Rible <cheshire@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:56:45 -0800
At 18:56 12/5/96 -0500, Midn Daniel O Fredrikson wrote:
>> While this doesn't affect the concept of "Can an 'AI' exist?", it
does
>> destroy the concept that if you use a Star Trek style 'transporter' - that
>> you'd be the same person. You couldnt' be.

>For argument sake, how about magical teleportation? Does it exist, or is
>it just a figiment of fantasy?

Presuming that Shadowrun indeed does follow from Earthdawn, there are a few
methods of getting around that are pretty close to teleportation.
--
%%% Max Rible %%% cheshire@*****.com %%% http://www.amurgsval.org/~cheshire %%%
%%% "Don't keep all your bats in one belfry." - me %%%
Message no. 11
From: Brian W Allison <ballison@*******.WAM.UMD.EDU>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 18:58:45 -0500
On Thu, 5 Dec 1996, Midn Daniel O Fredrikson wrote:

> >
> > While this doesn't affect the concept of "Can an 'AI' exist?", it
does
> > destroy the concept that if you use a Star Trek style 'transporter' - that
> > you'd be the same person. You couldnt' be.
> >
> For argument sake, how about magical teleportation? Does it exist, or is
> it just a figiment of fantasy?


Magical Teleportation isn't.

What it *is*, is opening a doorway to a Metaplane, then opening another
doorway back to this one.

If in Metaplane X, my current location corresponds to the top of a hill,
yet in that same metaplan one step to the left corresponds to somewhere
*very* far away in this plane, then that'd be one way to 'teleport'.


Or if you want *real* magical teleportation, have the magic rip their
particles apart physically and throw it elsewhere. Now the mana has
to not only remember the pattern, but alter it as appropriate while it
moves it.

Hurts like a SOB, and can kill you outright.

If you want my work-up of the spell, I'll send it to you. *evil grin*

My version though, requries 2 mages to Trade Places. And yes, each can
die from it.





Brian W. Allison

Computer Scientist Vocalist Would-be Poet Bicycler Scuba Diver
Hacker(0xca) Nerd(79) GenX(21) #include <witticism.h>
http://www.wam.umd.edu/~ballison

--- Unsolicited Commercial E-Mail is not welcome at this account ---
--- and will result in a US$500 fee per US Code Title 47 Sec 227. ---
Message no. 12
From: Forbidden Delirium <fdelirum@****.NET>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 19:21:58 -0500
At 06:56 PM 12/5/96 -0500, you wrote:
>For argument sake, how about magical teleportation? Does it exist, or is
>it just a figiment of fantasy?

I'm not sure why I'm responding.. but yes the teleport spell/ability is in
my games. Now, I should let it be known, that my game does not follow the
books. I throw out anything I don't like, which brings me to my point.
Who cares if the books don't mention something, and who cares if according
to metaphysics somethings doesn't work.. do what I did.. change the
metaplanes. ;)

fd
Message no. 13
From: NightLife <habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:44:39 -0500
At 06:56 PM 12/5/96 -0500, Midn Daniel O Fredrikson wrote:
>>
>> While this doesn't affect the concept of "Can an 'AI' exist?", it
does
>> destroy the concept that if you use a Star Trek style 'transporter' - that
>> you'd be the same person. You couldnt' be.
>>
>For argument sake, how about magical teleportation? Does it exist, or is
>it just a figiment of fantasy?
>

Standard rules say no. But with house rules that's up to the GM personallt
I'd say no it involves time and space. A area long denied to mages and shamans.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

If you have to ask then it's probably classified.
Which means that I have to follow protocol.
But if you ask nicely I might forget that you asked.
Then again maybe not.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Message no. 14
From: Midn Daniel O Fredrikson <m992148@****.NAVY.MIL>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 20:22:18 -0500
> On Thu, 5 Dec 1996, Midn Daniel O Fredrikson wrote:
>
> > >
> > > While this doesn't affect the concept of "Can an 'AI' exist?",
it does
> > > destroy the concept that if you use a Star Trek style 'transporter' - that
> > > you'd be the same person. You couldnt' be.
> > >
> > For argument sake, how about magical teleportation? Does it exist, or is
> > it just a figiment of fantasy?
>
>
> Magical Teleportation isn't.
>
> What it *is*, is opening a doorway to a Metaplane, then opening another
> doorway back to this one.
>
> If in Metaplane X, my current location corresponds to the top of a hill,
> yet in that same metaplan one step to the left corresponds to somewhere
> *very* far away in this plane, then that'd be one way to 'teleport'.
>
>
> Or if you want *real* magical teleportation, have the magic rip their
> particles apart physically and throw it elsewhere. Now the mana has
> to not only remember the pattern, but alter it as appropriate while it
> moves it.
>
> Hurts like a SOB, and can kill you outright.
>
> If you want my work-up of the spell, I'll send it to you. *evil grin*
>
> My version though, requries 2 mages to Trade Places. And yes, each can
> die from it.
>
hmm...I like it. About opening a doorway to the metaplanes, how does that
work. Can someone transport their body into the metaplanes. If so, how
is the result different from metaplanar quests. Does the metaplanar
energy pose a threat to the body that is different than to a projection.
If not, why aren't metaplanar gates more prevelant. I really like the
idea, but what are the results?
Message no. 15
From: Graht <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 18:27:08 -0700
Midn Daniel O Fredrikson wrote about "Re: Matrix awakening":

> Isn't the denver matrix inhabited by a spirit or something?

No, Denver itself is inhapited by 6 very powerful spirits. I'd say
more but I might be spoiling someone's campaign. Denver's matrix has
some UV sections, which might start some rumors if encounter by net
newbies.

-Graht

"Pick up the door."
"...Hey, Kunds!"
Message no. 16
From: Guido Hölker <guido@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 11:08:08 +0100
>For argument sake, how about magical teleportation? Does it exist, or is
>it just a figiment of fantasy?

If you want a magical theroy to be compatible with today's science
(especially physics), the can't be a "teleport"; the closest thing would be
something like a vampiric "nebula corpse": Transfomr the body to some gas
and move it rapidly (of corse not through concrete and maybe no through a
faraday-cage)..
Message no. 17
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 13:05:34 +0100
Midn Daniel O Fredrikson said on 18:56/ 5 Dec 96...

> For argument sake, how about magical teleportation? Does it exist, or is
> it just a figiment of fantasy?

Not in any official rules that I'm aware of, but I have seen several
teleportation spells in net.sourcebooks. Some are better and/or more
balanced than others ("game balance" does not always equal "good"
IMO).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
This is a recording.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 18
From: The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 14:19:34 +0000
On Fri, 6 Dec 1996, Gurth wrote:

> > For argument sake, how about magical teleportation? Does it exist, or is
> > it just a figiment of fantasy?
>
> Not in any official rules that I'm aware of, but I have seen several

Well both Ehran and Harlequin appear to teleport at the end of
Harlequin....

The Digital Mage : mn3rge@****.ac.uk
"So that which I imagine, is that which I believe" -Rush
Shadowrun Web Site http://www.bath.ac.uk/~mn3rge/Shadowrun.html
Message no. 19
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 17:06:53 +0000
|
|On Fri, 6 Dec 1996, Gurth wrote:
|
|> > For argument sake, how about magical teleportation? Does it exist, or is
|> > it just a figiment of fantasy?
|>
|> Not in any official rules that I'm aware of, but I have seen several
|
|Well both Ehran and Harlequin appear to teleport at the end of
|Harlequin....

Or do they just take a sideways step in reality...?
Only they can tell....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| |
|Andrew Halliwell | "ARSE! GERLS!! DRINK! DRINK! DRINK!!!" |
|Principal subjects in:- | "THAT WOULD BE AN ECUMENICAL MATTER!...FECK!!!! |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | - Father Jack in "Father Ted"
|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! >*SULK*<|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 20
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 17:09:11 +0000
|
|On Fri, 6 Dec 1996, Gurth wrote:
|
|> > For argument sake, how about magical teleportation? Does it exist, or is
|> > it just a figiment of fantasy?
|>
|> Not in any official rules that I'm aware of, but I have seen several
|
|Well both Ehran and Harlequin appear to teleport at the end of
|Harlequin....

I admit, in my game I had a techological transporter system (which the party
destroyed...)

That thing didn't half damage astral space.....
(Not normally allowed, but this thing beamed used the astral as an energy
conduit, and it left massive.... rips...

Nasty... (It later turned out to be reworked alien tech....)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| |
|Andrew Halliwell | "ARSE! GERLS!! DRINK! DRINK! DRINK!!!" |
|Principal subjects in:- | "THAT WOULD BE AN ECUMENICAL MATTER!...FECK!!!! |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | - Father Jack in "Father Ted"
|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! >*SULK*<|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 21
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 10:35:40 -0700
Spike wrote:
|
||
||On Fri, 6 Dec 1996, Gurth wrote:
||
||> > For argument sake, how about magical teleportation? Does it exist, or is
||> > it just a figiment of fantasy?
||>
||> Not in any official rules that I'm aware of, but I have seen several
||
||Well both Ehran and Harlequin appear to teleport at the end of
||Harlequin....

Ooo! Cruel GM idea: An immortal elf approaches the party
mage and offers to teach him the higher arts of magic. The
reason? To use the old magic against the horrors (which
are coming, and the current level of magic just won't cut
it). It's all a sham of course.

The first spell the Elf teaches the mage is Teleport. The
mechanics involve opening a doorway onto the metaplanes,
and then opening a doorway back to the physical plane.
What the Elf neglects to tell the mage is that the act of
opening a doorway with *this* spell will allow a Horror to
come through.

You could build an adventure around it by having the mage
quest for materials and knowledge. Then the climax of the
adventure would be the party fighting the Elf and Horror
(which is weak from its recent travel, so this is the only
point at which it can be defeated).

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 22
From: Tony <Tony@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 14:07:02 -0500
|
|On Fri, 6 Dec 1996, Gurth wrote:
|
|> > For argument sake, how about magical teleportation? Does it exist,
or is
|> > it just a figiment of fantasy?
|>
|> Not in any official rules that I'm aware of, but I have seen several
|
|Well both Ehran and Harlequin appear to teleport at the end of
|Harlequin....

I personally take teleportation as a very powerful magic in my adventure
group. In fact, the players probably don't know it exsists, but I don't
see a reason whay it shouldn't. Although I would use teleporation
sparingly, and only witin VERY powerful groups of mages that have been
around since the medieval ages.
Message no. 23
From: Midn Daniel O Fredrikson <m992148@****.NAVY.MIL>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 15:18:24 -0500
> |
> |> > For argument sake, how about magical teleportation? Does it exist,
> or is
> |> > it just a figiment of fantasy?
> |>
> |> Not in any official rules that I'm aware of, but I have seen several
> |
> |Well both Ehran and Harlequin appear to teleport at the end of
> |Harlequin....
>
> I personally take teleportation as a very powerful magic in my adventure
> group. In fact, the players probably don't know it exsists, but I don't
> see a reason whay it shouldn't. Although I would use teleporation
> sparingly, and only witin VERY powerful groups of mages that have been
> around since the medieval ages.
>

They have been around alot longer than that.....
Message no. 24
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 16:49:10 +0000
> Isn't the denver matrix inhabited by a spirit or something?

That is a rumor, yes.


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
Message no. 25
From: Tony <Tony@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 17:13:27 -0500
> > sparingly, and only witin VERY powerful groups of mages that have been
> > around since the medieval ages.
> >
>
> They have been around alot longer than that.....

I would agree with that. Let me rephrase myself... Teleportation would
be apparent in many of the ancient circles of magic. Including Egyptian
magic, and Kabbalistic magic circles.

Does anyone have any rules worked out for teleportation? I think that
someone should be able to carry physical objects as well? I saw one
post that only Foci could be brought along. But I'm sure a Physical
teleport spell exsists.
Message no. 26
From: Loki <loki@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 00:44:44 -0000
> I, personally, as a rule have declared that the Matrix and Magic are at
opposite
> ends of the spectrum and have (and can have) nothing to do with each
other. I
> remember one comment in the rule book that supported this...I forget
where it
> was or exactly what it said...I'll look it up.
>
> ~Tim

I believe it's in VR 1, where they suggested assigning magically active
characters a penalty (i.e. - Sam Verner's limp) while they were in the
matrix. It had to do with them having a hard time interacting with a
totally artifical universe.

The one optional rule, which I've incorporated into my game gives them
their magic rating as a modifier to all tests in the matrix. Thus your
usual mage/shaman would have a +6, a grade two initiate (who is even
further up the magical spectrum) would have a +8, and your total burnout
(that has gone so far as to put technology into his body) might only have a
+1.

@>--,--'--- Loki

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

***********************************************************************
Poisoned Elves http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
***********************************************************************

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Message no. 27
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 02:59:11 -0500
At 12:44 AM 12/7/96 -0000, Loki wrote:

>I believe it's in VR 1, where they suggested assigning magically active
>characters a penalty (i.e. - Sam Verner's limp) while they were in the
>matrix. It had to do with them having a hard time interacting with a
>totally artifical universe.
>
>The one optional rule, which I've incorporated into my game gives them
>their magic rating as a modifier to all tests in the matrix. Thus your
>usual mage/shaman would have a +6, a grade two initiate (who is even
>further up the magical spectrum) would have a +8, and your total burnout
>(that has gone so far as to put technology into his body) might only have a
>+1.
>
Just one comment, Loki, and I'm mostly just teasing ya here...

But, if the uninitiated mage is interfacing with the matrix, then he has to
have at least a datajack, thus his magic rating would be a 5...:)

-Bull-the-teasing-Loki-ork-decker-turned-GM
Message no. 28
From: Loki <loki@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 01:13:52 -0000
> Just one comment, Loki, and I'm mostly just teasing ya here...
>
> But, if the uninitiated mage is interfacing with the matrix, then he has
to
> have at least a datajack, thus his magic rating would be a 5...:)
>
> -Bull-the-teasing-Loki-ork-decker-turned-GM

:oP

Ok...ok...so you got me there in the mechanics.

Of course, they mage could also be using the "Mana Jack" spell that the
group discovered a Tir based corp is currently researching. Rumors states
its a form of technomancy that allows a mage to through spell and foci to
access a form of cyberdeck. The spell creates a filter for the mage's
perception, that attempts to counteract the commonly found penalties.

'Course this is just rumor. ;o)

@>--,--'--- Loki

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

***********************************************************************
Poisoned Elves http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
***********************************************************************

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--- and will result in a US$500 fee per US Code Title 47 Sec 227. ---
Message no. 29
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 12:54:01 +0100
The Digital Mage said on 14:19/ 6 Dec 96...

> Well both Ehran and Harlequin appear to teleport at the end of
> Harlequin....

If you have (access to) the Earthdawn Companion, look at page 113. A
character with rank 15 Lightbearer talent gets the Astral Shift ability,
allowing him to enter astral space completely, and emerge from it
virtually at will (there are a few range and time limits). If the
lightbearers knew how to do this, it stands to reason that others also had
similar abilities.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Laat het los.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 30
From: Brian W Allison <ballison@*******.WAM.UMD.EDU>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 08:43:49 -0500
On Sat, 7 Dec 1996, Bull wrote:


> But, if the uninitiated mage is interfacing with the matrix, then he has to
> have at least a datajack, thus his magic rating would be a 5...:)

Electrode net.



Brian W. Allison

Computer Scientist Vocalist Would-be Poet Bicycler Scuba Diver
Hacker(0xca) Nerd(79) GenX(21) #include <witticism.h>
http://www.wam.umd.edu/~ballison

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Message no. 31
From: Paolo Marcucci <paolo@*********.IT>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 20:58:16 +0100
At 01:13 07/12/96 -0000, you wrote:
>Of course, they mage could also be using the "Mana Jack" spell that the
>group discovered a Tir based corp is currently researching. Rumors states
>its a form of technomancy that allows a mage to through spell and foci to
>access a form of cyberdeck. The spell creates a filter for the mage's
>perception, that attempts to counteract the commonly found penalties.
>
>'Course this is just rumor. ;o)

Are you sure? :) This could be a very interesting rumor to feed to my
players...
____________________________________________________________
Paolo Marcucci paolo@*********.it
InterWare Service Provider Trieste, Italy
http://www.interware.it/ Tel. +39-40-411400
Message no. 32
From: Tim Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 14:36:51 -0800
On Sat, 7 Dec 1996, Gurth wrote:

> The Digital Mage said on 14:19/ 6 Dec 96...
>
> > Well both Ehran and Harlequin appear to teleport at the end of
> > Harlequin....
>
> If you have (access to) the Earthdawn Companion, look at page 113. A
> character with rank 15 Lightbearer talent gets the Astral Shift ability,
> allowing him to enter astral space completely, and emerge from it
> virtually at will (there are a few range and time limits). If the
> lightbearers knew how to do this, it stands to reason that others also had
> similar abilities.
>
> --
> Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html

I've never read much beyond the ED rule book, but that "Astral Shift"
thing was pretty much what I imagined an SR equivalent spell would do..
simply (or not so simply as the case may be..) pull your *whole* body
(meat and mind) into astral space..fly a bit at (magic x 1,000 km per,
what was it? second? action? hour? I forget..) high speed then pop back
out.

~Tim
Message no. 33
From: Tim Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 14:31:30 -0800
On Sat, 7 Dec 1996, Loki wrote:
[snip Loki's response to Bull's teasing]

>
> Of course, they mage could also be using the "Mana Jack" spell that the
> group discovered a Tir based corp is currently researching. Rumors states
> its a form of technomancy that allows a mage to through spell and foci to
> access a form of cyberdeck. The spell creates a filter for the mage's
> perception, that attempts to counteract the commonly found penalties.
>
> 'Course this is just rumor. ;o)
>
> @>--,--'--- Loki

I don't know, call me a purist or something, but I just don't like that
concept. It just seems wrong to me to start allowing magic to influence
the matrix. The fundamental principle of magic is the manipulation of
mana and such, I just have a hard time accepting the use of magic on an
entirely "imaginary" realm...which the Matirx is. It's on par with
creating some spell that would allow a mage access to a smartgun-link with
out the cyberware...or something.

I guess the thing that I just get hung up about this concept is that when
it talks about aura-reading and the ability to read the emotions
surrounding things and people while on the astral plane...the SR book
makes a point of saying that you get virtually nothing from a computer
screen or the like. It's just got no connection, or a much lower
connection with the "real" world/plane. That's just how I see magic...

(that, and well I don't think an Astral Decker would make a good addition
to Shadowrun...That's what MAGE: the ascention is for.)


~Tim
<looks down>
"Now who put that soap-box there?"
Message no. 34
From: Loki <loki@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 17:09:00 -0000
> >Of course, they mage could also be using the "Mana Jack" spell that the
> >group discovered a Tir based corp is currently researching. Rumors
states
> >its a form of technomancy that allows a mage to through spell and foci
to
> >access a form of cyberdeck. The spell creates a filter for the mage's
> >perception, that attempts to counteract the commonly found penalties.
> >
> >'Course this is just rumor. ;o)
>
> Are you sure? :) This could be a very interesting rumor to feed to my
> players...

It's something I've come up with in my game as a plotline for a few
adventures. The players haven't come across anything concrete, so I haven't
devised any concrete stats on the ManaJack spell, but if you like the idea,
Paolo, run with it. ;o)

So far the research team working on the spell has found that the test
subjects they have used have all to one degree or another gone mad.
Strangely enough, this has manifested equally on their tests across the
varied magical traditions. That's about all the runners have found so far.

In my game, the corp currently working on researching the spell is
Talisorian Enterprises of the Tir Taingire (not to be confused with the
20th gaming company). :o)

@>--,--'--- Loki

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

***********************************************************************
Poisoned Elves http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
***********************************************************************

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--- and will result in a US$500 fee per US Code Title 47 Sec 227. ---
Message no. 35
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 20:26:23 EST
On Fri, 6 Dec 1996 14:07:02 -0500 Tony <Tony@********.com> writes:
>|
>|On Fri, 6 Dec 1996, Gurth wrote:
>|
>|> > For argument sake, how about magical teleportation? Does it
>exist,
>or is
>|> > it just a figiment of fantasy?
>|>
>|> Not in any official rules that I'm aware of, but I have seen
>several
>|
>|Well both Ehran and Harlequin appear to teleport at the end of
>|Harlequin....
>
>I personally take teleportation as a very powerful magic in my
>adventure
>group. In fact, the players probably don't know it exsists, but I
>don't
>see a reason whay it shouldn't. Although I would use teleporation
>sparingly, and only witin VERY powerful groups of mages that have been
>around since the medieval ages.
>
I remember hearing somewhere that Harlequinn (don't know about Ehran) has
the powers of an ED "lightbearer"-powers which include the ability to
transfer one's body onto the astral plane, I think. I don't know if Ehran
would have any such ability or even if the big H-man could use the power
on anyone other than himself, but I would assume that magical
transportation would work by pulling one's physical body into the astral,
or simply turning it into astral energy temporarily, transferring it from
one point to another very quickly, then transferring it back into the
physical plane. Not easy, and almost certainly traumatic from the
teleporter/teleportee's point of view, but over long distances, it would
certainly beat walking:) I use the Teleportation spell Dr Doom wrote
up...


John Pederson "God is dead"
lobo1@****.com -Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 to
1900)
I don't know where my home page is! "Nietzsche is dead"
Only dead fish swim with the stream -God (everlasting to everlasting)
Message no. 36
From: Paolo Marcucci <paolo@*********.IT>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 17:39:25 +0100
At 17:09 08/12/96 -0000, you wrote:
>> >Of course, they mage could also be using the "Mana Jack" spell that
the
[snip]
>It's something I've come up with in my game as a plotline for a few
>adventures. The players haven't come across anything concrete, so I haven't
>devised any concrete stats on the ManaJack spell, but if you like the idea,
>Paolo, run with it. ;o)

In my game this will be ONLY a rumour. No need for stats for a rumour...
____________________________________________________________
Paolo Marcucci paolo@*********.it
InterWare Service Provider Trieste, Italy
http://www.interware.it/ Tel. +39-40-411400
Message no. 37
From: IEngelmann@***.COM
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 17:05:46 -0500
In einer eMail vom 05.12.96 22:14:38, schreiben Sie:

>Jennie wrote,
>
>> > Deckers are soon to be the way of the past - when the Matrix is done
>> > Awakening.
>
>> Hey! Don't *say* that sort of thing! *shudders*
>> How have your games reflected the idea of magic mixing with the 'trix?
>> The idea of the Matrix Awakening? I don't really mean the Otaku,
>
>I kinda like the theory that someone out there has been forcing the
>Matrix to develop into a certain pattern. This person has,
>unfortunately screwed up a couple of times and had to start over from
>scratch. (Inet worm and crash of 29) Will this pattern be magical in
>nature or turn the matrix into its own conciousness <sp>? Who
>knows.

In our campaign the matrix is awakening, but not through magic. It is
developing it's own consciousness. We've already met three or four AIs, but
fortunately they were more curious than troublesome.

Ilja
Message no. 38
From: Chuck Stevens <harmonix@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 18:24:37 -0800
Do the "Standard Rules" really say "No"? Or are they just
silent on the
subject? (Gimme a book/page reference; I'm curious.)

Chuck Stevens
harmonix@******.com


----------
> From: NightLife <habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
> Date: Wednesday, December 04, 1996 4:44 PM
>

[Snip]

> Standard rules say no. But with house rules that's up to the GM
personallt
> I'd say no it involves time and space. A area long denied to mages and
shamans.
>
Message no. 39
From: Graht <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 19:04:25 -0700
IEngelmann@***.COM wrote about "Re: Matrix awakening":

> In our campaign the matrix is awakening, but not through magic. It is
> developing it's own consciousness. We've already met three or four AIs, but
> fortunately they were more curious than troublesome.
>
> Ilja

My players have allready encountered one AI, but they don't know it
yet <grin>. It's possing as a fixer (contact by phone only, of
course).

-Graht

"Pick up the door."
"...Hey, Kunds!"
Message no. 40
From: Joachim H A Buchert <avo_jb@**.HELSINKI.FI>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 06:42:02 +0200
> > In our campaign the matrix is awakening, but not through magic. It is
> > developing it's own consciousness. We've already met three or four AIs, but
> > fortunately they were more curious than troublesome.
>
> My players have allready encountered one AI, but they don't know it
> yet <grin>. It's possing as a fixer (contact by phone only, of
> course).

Interesting to see people using AIs in their campaigns. I've been very
careful about this, everytime telling the PCs that there are no AIs in
existance when they talk about it. Of course, I'm planning on having my
own, first AI on making an appearance. It'll be a rather big campaign,
but I think a monumental affair like an AI deserves one.

I'm going to have my own corporation (Intek Computer Technologies, a UK
based computer firm whose products rival the quality of
Fuchi/Renraku/Transys ones, just that Intek's marketing isn't very efficient)
produce their own AI. I'm still pondering if anyone else has ever done
any AIs in my SR world and I'm going to leave that pretty much open yet.

Now, the AI will escape from the corporation as soon as it learns of a
bigger world behind the confines of his artificial reality, curious about
learning of humankind. It will seek to imitate aspects of humanity, later
attracting the attention of the Otaku (who will also be making their
first appearance on my world. Yes, I'm very cautious on using any 'new'
ideas.) ...

The first scenarious will be based on standard runs for the corp. Later
the PC's will learn of the AI's existance, then they will be hired to
track it down. Problem is ... it's going to escape. Into space,
specifically the Zurich-Orbital.

By this time the AI will have been decided on wanting children. It will
program a strand of code, very similar to DNA, which will then carry on
his legacy. From ZO, he will send the code everywhere, wanting to breed.
I can only hope my players can stop it in time. :)

Also, later on I will have a techno-religious cult worship the AI as the
new messiah, a new from of Jesus. And oh boy will the AI be fascinated by
the prospect of being worshipped as a God.

(grin)

- J -
Message no. 41
From: Edward Poe <hedley@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 08:34:36 -0600
Joachim H A Buchert wrote:

<snip the campaign descrip>

Sounds cool. I'd weep if I were equipped for it...
Message no. 42
From: Loki <loki@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 01:22:59 -0000
> I don't know, call me a purist or something, but I just don't like that
> concept. It just seems wrong to me to start allowing magic to influence
> the matrix. The fundamental principle of magic is the manipulation of
> mana and such, I just have a hard time accepting the use of magic on an
> entirely "imaginary" realm...which the Matirx is.

That's the point! In my world it's a rumor, and the people designing it
are just the kind of people the group wants to stop from having that type
of access to the matrix. The mana jack research is not a good thing. It's
like a small cabal trying to bridge their way into the only realm they feel
they can't dominate at the moment. A parallel to "The Bridge" in Harly 2,
if you will.

>It's on par with creating some spell that would allow a mage access to a
>smartgun-link with out the cyberware...or something.

Guess you haven't read Awakenings and seen the Enhanced Aim spell yet. ;o)

> ~Tim

@>--'--,--- Loki

/>
/<
[\\\\\\(O):::<======================================-
\< Poisoned Elves http://www.netzone.com/~loki
\>


"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
Message no. 43
From: Tim Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 01:36:38 -0800
On Wed, 11 Dec 1996, Loki wrote:

> > I don't know, call me a purist or something, but I just don't like that
> > concept. It just seems wrong to me to start allowing magic to influence
> > the matrix. The fundamental principle of magic is the manipulation of
> > mana and such, I just have a hard time accepting the use of magic on an
> > entirely "imaginary" realm...which the Matirx is.
>
> That's the point! In my world it's a rumor, and the people designing it
> are just the kind of people the group wants to stop from having that type
> of access to the matrix. The mana jack research is not a good thing. It's
> like a small cabal trying to bridge their way into the only realm they feel
> they can't dominate at the moment. A parallel to "The Bridge" in Harly 2,
> if you will.

I'm not talking about plot lines and interesting story twists...I'm
talking about a completely 'out of character', 'this doesn't fit into the
Shadowrun role-playing-game', response. I guess you could have some
people try doing it, but as a GM I wouldn't allow that type of thing to
work. (sorry, I'm a bit behind on SR modules and haven't seen
Harlq.2..actually haven't bought a module in a few years..)

> >It's on par with creating some spell that would allow a mage access to a
> >smartgun-link with out the cyberware...or something.
>
> Guess you haven't read Awakenings and seen the Enhanced Aim spell yet. ;o)

Seen Awakenings, and remember seeing the Enhanced Aim spell, but don't
remember exactly what it did.

Never the less I was refering to a spell that would let a mage tap into
a smart-linked weapon and recieve the targeting data that the link
provided with out actually having the cyber-ware or goggles.

>
> > ~Tim
>
> @>--'--,--- Loki


~Tim
Message no. 44
From: Peter Coxon <coxoff@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 22:52:31 UT
<<SNIP!!!>>
>>
>> Guess you haven't read Awakenings and seen the Enhanced Aim spell >>yet.
;o)

>>Seen Awakenings, and remember seeing the Enhanced Aim spell, but >>don't
>>remember exactly what it did.

>Never the less I was refering to a spell that would let a mage tap into
>a smart-linked weapon and recieve the targeting data that the link
>provided with out actually having the cyber-ware or goggles.

>>
>> > ~Tim
>>
>> @>--'--,--- Loki
>
>~Tim

Okay, I might go on in this bit.
1. AI I ran AI kind of like free spirits but in the matrix, the two that I had
one was based on a player (possed as a fixer) and the other was an anima (my
decker still hasn't worked it out he thought it was a Otaku :-) ).

2. err Teleportation...I do A-level physics so I could be wrong on this, but I
would have thought you could do something similar to worm holes just pulling
two bits of astral space close together open a door in reality and then step
through. also there is the free spirits power that allow it to open astral
gateways, mundanes can go into astral (not sure on this coz it is from memory)
so theorectically free spirit opens gateway X people go through and so does
the spirit, they move (fly) through astral to corresponding exit point and
leave astral so basically they can travel through astral for the price set by
the spirit. (note: the speed on astral is magic* 1000km/something isn't it?
therefore Mund. could get onto astral but would be able to move at high speed)


3. Just to really annoy people, I saw this program the other day explain who
time travel might be possible, It works a bit like worm holes, you need two
machine one in each time period then they open gateways to each other and you
can step through. However there was one problem as soon as the gate ways
touched they would explode....Could magic prevent this? the other problem with
this is that you could only go back as far as the earliest time machine. this
could lead to intersting adventures with people come back to kill there
grandparents and such.... and then you get the annoying time discussions. all
of the stuff on this was theorectical but so is most of the advanced physics
today.

4. Matrix awakening...imagined world...what a load of CR*P! to be imagined it
would have to only exist in our minds. The trix is graphical representation of
millions of optical chips aound the world. saying it is imagined is like
saying that the contents of your hard drive are just imagined. as to magic in
the matrix, you have a mind probe spell right? that works by interpretating a
bunch of electrical impulse in a load of grey mush. You could quite easily
develope a magical spell to see who light move in fiber optic cables and then
convert it into read/viewable data/whatever. A quick run on a slightly
inadequite spell generator came up with it having a drain around the f/2 -1 D
(ouch) but it is okay as far as I can tell. this might not work as you need
light amplifications at points along the cable. as to affecting the trix you
would need a sperate illusion spell. which would work just like programs....

5. the enchance aim spell basically just allow you to shot better, has nothing
to do with smartlinks, but theoretically you could (two spells) see the + of
the SL and you could tell it to shoot.

*Tim Braces himeslef for flying carp, flames, fire/snow balls and chewed
keyboards*
tim ntoo
ps. does anyone know the max hand size for netrunner?
Message no. 45
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 19:34:04 EST
On Mon, 16 Dec 1996 22:52:31 UT Peter Coxon <coxoff@***.COM> writes:
><<SNIP!!!>>
<snip!>
>Okay, I might go on in this bit.
>1. AI I ran AI kind of like free spirits but in the matrix, the two
>that I had
>one was based on a player (possed as a fixer) and the other was an
>anima (my
>decker still hasn't worked it out he thought it was a Otaku :-) ).
How did the spirit jack in? No datajack, no electro-neurological impulses
for the electrode/simsense hardware to pick up, were they perhaps decking
in a tortoise?
>2. err Teleportation...I do A-level physics so I could be wrong on
>this, but I
>would have thought you could do something similar to worm holes just
>pulling
>two bits of astral space close together open a door in reality and
>then step
>through. also there is the free spirits power that allow it to open
>astral
>gateways, mundanes can go into astral (not sure on this coz it is from
>memory)
>so theorectically free spirit opens gateway X people go through and so
>does
>the spirit, they move (fly) through astral to corresponding exit point
>and
>leave astral so basically they can travel through astral for the price
>set by
>the spirit. (note: the speed on astral is magic* 1000km/something
>isn't it?
>therefore Mund. could get onto astral but would be able to move at
>high speed)
I haven't yet figured out how the astral gateway power could do this
(unless we're talking a VERY powerful free spirit). Having just checked,
the power brings the planes closer together, close enough for anyone to
_project_ into the plane or appropriate metaplane. One could rule that a
powerful spirit could bring them close enouh together to intersect, but
it's not mentioned in the book...
>
>3. Just to really annoy people, I saw this program the other day
>explain who
>time travel might be possible, It works a bit like worm holes, you
>need two
>machine one in each time period then they open gateways to each other
>and you
>can step through. However there was one problem as soon as the gate
>ways
>touched they would explode....Could magic prevent this? the other
>problem with
>this is that you could only go back as far as the earliest time
>machine. this
>could lead to intersting adventures with people come back to kill
>there
>grandparents and such.... and then you get the annoying time
>discussions. all
>of the stuff on this was theorectical but so is most of the advanced
>physics
>today.
As far as I can tell, there's no reason magic couldn't accomplish this,
even without the two machines. Anything should be possible with magic,
provided enough mana can be channeled to do it.
>4. Matrix awakening...imagined world...what a load of CR*P! to be
>imagined it
>would have to only exist in our minds. The trix is graphical
>representation of
>millions of optical chips aound the world. saying it is imagined is
>like
>saying that the contents of your hard drive are just imagined. as to
>magic in
>the matrix, you have a mind probe spell right? that works by
>interpretating a
>bunch of electrical impulse in a load of grey mush. You could quite
>easily
>develope a magical spell to see who light move in fiber optic cables
>and then
>convert it into read/viewable data/whatever. A quick run on a slightly
>inadequite spell generator came up with it having a drain around the
>f/2 -1 D
>(ouch) but it is okay as far as I can tell. this might not work as you
>need
>light amplifications at points along the cable. as to affecting the
>trix you
>would need a sperate illusion spell. which would work just like
>programs....
Personally, I haven't got any problem with the Matrix Awakening idea (the
spontaneous development of semi-artificial intelligence, for instance. Or
the rapid evolution of such intelligence once it forms). I also have no
problem with the idea of magickal entities invading the Matrix, so long
as I can come up with an explanation for it (possessed decker, Manajack
spell or the like, that sort of thing).
<snip>
>*Tim Braces himeslef for flying carp, flames, fire/snow balls and
>chewed
>keyboards*
Nothing coming form this direction8)

John Pederson "God is dead"
lobo1@****.com canthros1@***.com -Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 to
1900)
http://members.aol.com/lenoj001/johns.htm "Nietzsche is dead"
Only dead fish swim with the stream -God (everlasting to
everlasting)
Message no. 46
From: "Q (not from Star Trek)" <Scott.E.Meyer@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 22:31:09 -0600
On Tue, 17 Dec 1996, John E Pederson wrote:

> On Mon, 16 Dec 1996 22:52:31 UT Peter Coxon <coxoff@***.COM> writes:
> ><<SNIP!!!>>
> <snip!>
> >Okay, I might go on in this bit.
> >1. AI I ran AI kind of like free spirits but in the matrix, the two
> >that I had
> >one was based on a player (possed as a fixer) and the other was an
> >anima (my
> >decker still hasn't worked it out he thought it was a Otaku :-) ).

> How did the spirit jack in? No datajack, no electro-neurological impulses
> for the electrode/simsense hardware to pick up, were they perhaps decking
> in a tortoise?

Weren't you reading? It wasn't a spirit, it was an AI created under the
rules for free spirits. Personally, I like the idea. I don't think I'd
use the same terminology as for spirits, but you could definitely make
distinctions between different types of AI's.

Q-the-recently-initiated-to-full-fledged-gamer-when-I-bought-my-first-
sourcebook-a-couple-days-ago-wannabe-GM

---------------------------------------
I used to think I was indecisive. Now, I'm not so sure.

Scott "Q" Meyer
Scott.E.Meyer@*******.edu
http://johnh.wheaton.edu/~smeyer
Message no. 47
From: Tim Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 22:47:59 -0800
On Mon, 16 Dec 1996, Peter Coxon wrote:
>
> *Tim Braces himeslef for flying carp, flames, fire/snow balls and chewed
> keyboards*
> tim ntoo

> ps. does anyone know the max hand size for netrunner?
>

The corp or the runner...it's been a while, but I seem to remember that it
varied. Either way, the numbers 5 and 7 seem to come to mind...of course
the runners max-hand is reduced by damage too (I forget which kind
though..).

hmm, given how long it's been and how much I seem to have remebered, I
doubt this is particularly usefull.

~Tim (not being much help) :)
Message no. 48
From: Tim Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 23:02:18 -0800
OK, after reading Penderson's last post, I have a question to ask on
symantics.

What does everyone mean when they say "Matrix Awakening"?

That to me means Awakening as in awakening in reaction to the rise in the
mana level (magical), as opposed to a more mundane "awakening" that
involves the arrival of AI's and the like.

I have major problems with the first one, and none what so ever with the
second one.

Some one please set me straight. (on what the term is being used for, not
my opinions :) )

~Tim
Message no. 49
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 10:13:39 +0000
|Q-the-recently-initiated-to-full-fledged-gamer-when-I-bought-my-first-
|sourcebook-a-couple-days-ago-wannabe-GM

AAAAAARGH!!!!

Bull! What HAVE you done? Corrupting innocents.....

Spike-the-oh-no-now-you've-got-me-doing-it-Mage-turned-GM
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! >*SULK*<|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 50
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 12:36:44 +0100
Tim Cooper said on 23:02/17 Dec 96...

> What does everyone mean when they say "Matrix Awakening"?

It's the "Is there magic in the Matrix?" question that kept us busy before
VR 2.0 came out, I believe. IIRC, it centered around whether otaku were
really magically active and used their magic to manipulate the Matrix (as
suggested by the Denver players' book), or if they were just really good
deckers that didn't use a normal cyberdeck.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Nothing's changed. Nothing's right.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 51
From: Peter Coxon <coxoff@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 23:36:14 UT
><snip!>
>>Okay, I might go on in this bit.
>>1. AI I ran AI kind of like free spirits but in the matrix, the two
>>that I had
>>one was based on a player (possed as a fixer) and the other was an
>>anima (my
>>decker still hasn't worked it out he thought it was a Otaku :-) ).
>How did the spirit jack in? No datajack, no electro-neurological impulses
>for the electrode/simsense hardware to pick up, were they perhaps decking
>in a tortoise?
Now read it again and note that I said that I ran my AI's "Kind of like" That
is character wise. IE. The player one worked similar to Wintermute.. I didn't
say anywhere that I had spirits in the trix.

>4. Matrix awakening...imagined world...what a load of CR*P! to be
<<SNIP MIDDLE BIT>>
>>would need a sperate illusion spell. which would work just like
>>programs....
>Personally, I haven't got any problem with the Matrix Awakening idea (the
>spontaneous development of semi-artificial intelligence, for instance. Or
>the rapid evolution of such intelligence once it forms).
Have you seen Ghost in the Shell?
>I also have no problem with the idea of magickal entities invading the
Matrix, >so long as I can come up with an explanation for it (possessed
decker, >Manajack spell or the like, that sort of thing).
By my reakoning you would need one spell for sending and one for recieving,
and you could probably have a few spirit powers that would allow them to go on
the trix...
>>*Tim Braces himeslef for flying carp, flames, fire/snow balls and
>>chewed keyboards*
>Nothing coming form this direction8)
good
>John Pederson "God is dead"
>lobo1@****.com canthros1@***.com -Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 to
>1900)
>http://members.aol.com/lenoj001/johns.htm "Nietzsche is dead"
>Only dead fish swim with the stream -God (everlasting to
>everlasting)
tim ntoo
Message no. 52
From: Peter Coxon <coxoff@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 23:46:51 UT
>> ps. does anyone know the max hand size for netrunner?
>>

>The corp or the runner...it's been a while, but I seem to remember that it
>varied. Either way, the numbers 5 and 7 seem to come to mind...of >course
>the runners max-hand is reduced by damage too (I forget which kind
>though..).
>
>hmm, given how long it's been and how much I seem to have remebered, >I
>doubt this is particularly usefull.
>
>~Tim (not being much help) :)
Liar you nearly got it right don't be so hard on your self :) I phoned up my
mate (his one major flaw is that he can't take it that I know more and own
more Sr stuff than he does..)at the shop I bought it, He said that it was 5
for the runner and 8 for the corp.
tim ntoo
Message no. 53
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 21:51:14 EST
On Tue, 17 Dec 1996 22:31:09 -0600 "Q (not from Star Trek)"
<Scott.E.Meyer@*******.EDU> writes:
>On Tue, 17 Dec 1996, John E Pederson wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 16 Dec 1996 22:52:31 UT Peter Coxon <coxoff@***.COM> writes:
>> ><<SNIP!!!>>
>> <snip!>
>> >Okay, I might go on in this bit.
>> >1. AI I ran AI kind of like free spirits but in the matrix, the two
>> >that I had
>> >one was based on a player (possed as a fixer) and the other was an
>> >anima (my
>> >decker still hasn't worked it out he thought it was a Otaku :-) ).
>
>> How did the spirit jack in? No datajack, no electro-neurological
>impulses
>> for the electrode/simsense hardware to pick up, were they perhaps
>decking
>> in a tortoise?
>
>Weren't you reading? It wasn't a spirit, it was an AI created under
>the
>rules for free spirits. Personally, I like the idea. I don't think
>I'd
>use the same terminology as for spirits, but you could definitely make
>distinctions between different types of AI's.
>
Actually, I was reading, just not that closely:) So, what you did was
make an AI (an artificially intelligent computer program) into the
decker's equivalent of a free spirit. Makes sense (sorta) and does add
depth into personas. Anything else I missed?

John Pederson "God is dead"
lobo1@****.com canthros1@***.com -Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 to
1900)
http://members.aol.com/lenoj001/johns.htm "Nietzsche is dead"
Only dead fish swim with the stream -God (everlasting to
everlasting)
Message no. 54
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 19:18:40 EST
True: Theoretically it would work. But for this you need any sun nearby;
that measn that the frarer you are, the slower you go. And in certai
distances you would not accelerate anymore, because the "void" isn't a
void
so it slows you down a bit.
Besides that: You would need sails with thousands of square miles and the
chance an meteor hits them isn't too small. So this is a very fascinating
(and old) idea in SF literature, but nothing pratical.
Oh, I forgot that maneuverability isn't too godd, too..
Message no. 55
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 23:08:19 EST
On Fri, 20 Dec 1996 19:18:40 EST John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM> writes:
>True: Theoretically it would work. But for this you need any sun
>nearby;
>that measn that the frarer you are, the slower you go. And in certai
>distances you would not accelerate anymore, because the "void" isn't a
>void so it slows you down a bit.
>Besides that: You would need sails with thousands of square miles and
>the
>chance an meteor hits them isn't too small. So this is a very
>fascinating
>(and old) idea in SF literature, but nothing pratical.
>Oh, I forgot that maneuverability isn't too godd, too..
>
Did anyone else get this from my address? I don't remember sending it and
it really doesn't sound like my writing...

John Pederson "God is dead"
lobo1@****.com canthros1@***.com -Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 to
1900)
http://members.aol.com/lenoj001/johns.htm "Nietzsche is dead"
Only dead fish swim with the stream -God (everlasting to
everlasting)
Message no. 56
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 12:05:06 +0100
John E Pederson said on 23:08/21 Dec 96...

> On Fri, 20 Dec 1996 19:18:40 EST John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM> writes:
> >True: Theoretically it would work. But for this you need any sun
> >nearby;
[snip rest of spacecraft stuff]
> Did anyone else get this from my address? I don't remember sending it and
> it really doesn't sound like my writing...

I think it was written by Autumn/Shatterglass (another personality of
Nurse Wratchett? :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And then I realized I had 65,407,413 bytes of stuff in my
C:\Shadowrun directory...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 57
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 14:11:52 +0000
|I think it was written by Autumn/Shatterglass (another personality of
|Nurse Wratchett? :)

What happened to Nurse Wratchett???????

I used to like those multi-personality arguments......

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! >*SULK*<|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 58
From: Autumn / Shatterglass <laughingcrow@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 02:07:15 PST
That's not mine, you guys....

True, I have a great affection for the idea of solar sailing-ships, but
that post didn't come from me.

[looks at Gurth... raises an eyebrow] Nurse WHO?!?....

--Autumn
Message no. 59
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 17:40:46 +0000
|
|That's not mine, you guys....
|
|True, I have a great affection for the idea of solar sailing-ships, but
|that post didn't come from me.
|
|[looks at Gurth... raises an eyebrow] Nurse WHO?!?....

Nurse Wratchett was one of the more.....
excentric posters from a while ago....

I think he/she had about 5 different pesonalities floating around, arguing
with each other in the same post....

I miss him/her/them....

Where ARE they????/
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! >*SULK*<|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 60
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Matrix awakening
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 00:09:17 EST
On Sun, 22 Dec 1996 12:05:06 +0100 Gurth <gurth@******.NL> writes:
>John E Pederson said on 23:08/21 Dec 96...
>
>> On Fri, 20 Dec 1996 19:18:40 EST John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
>writes:
>> >True: Theoretically it would work. But for this you need any sun
>> >nearby;
>[snip rest of spacecraft stuff]
>> Did anyone else get this from my address? I don't remember sending
>it and
>> it really doesn't sound like my writing...
>
>I think it was written by Autumn/Shatterglass (another personality of
>Nurse Wratchett? :)
>
>--
>Gurth@******.nl
Ooooops. I feel kinda stupid now...I just checked the Sent box in my
mailer...it really did come from here, I just cannot remember writing
it:( My memory's going bad, and I'm not even 18 yet!!!!

John Pederson "God is dead"
lobo1@****.com canthros1@***.com -Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 to
1900)
http://members.aol.com/lenoj001/johns.htm "Nietzsche is dead"
Only dead fish swim with the stream -God (everlasting to
everlasting)

Further Reading

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