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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (White Noise)
Subject: Matrix? How many Deckers
Date: Tue Sep 18 01:50:05 2001
Hi Everyone:

Just finished reading the Matrix chapter in SR3.Don't really understand it
all yet.

QQQ What happens if say a dozen deckers get honked off at a certain Corp and
decide to trash its matrix site. They all have their own decks and all jack
in form different sites. Can they see each other in the matrix? Once they
gain access to the Corp site can they gang-up to fight off IC? Is it
possible to have so many deckers, that there is not enough IC to attack all
of them?(If possible, this would leave some free to run amuck, while the
others fought the IC).

White Noise
(Annoying or Irritating Sound)


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Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Downtym)
Subject: Matrix? How many Deckers
Date: Tue Sep 18 02:25:03 2001
On Mon, 17 Sep 2001, White Noise wrote:

> QQQ What happens if say a dozen deckers get honked off at a certain Corp and
> decide to trash its matrix site. They all have their own decks and all jack
> in form different sites. Can they see each other in the matrix? Once they
> gain access to the Corp site can they gang-up to fight off IC? Is it
> possible to have so many deckers, that there is not enough IC to attack all
> of them?(If possible, this would leave some free to run amuck, while the
> others fought the IC).

I hate to reference it, but that scene from "Hackers" is what I think
about in this situation. I think that any reasonablly sized mega would
be able to find a way to fight off a decker invasion (From closing the
SAN so that no one can log in to throwing IC from other parts of the
system at the deckers, to bringing in their own deckers).

I do believe that if such a virtual storm broke out that the mega
would begin shutting down that system. They might even take it offline
forcibly (Read, "Pull the plug!!!") and use the IC and wage deckers to
hold off the intruders long enough to save any important data to disk.

I would expect that in this scenario the general rules about black IC
being a rare thing would fall apart immediately and you would see some
of the blackest IC creep out from the mega's servers to gank the
deckers.

I would say that *enough* skilled deckers could make a very bad day
for the corp. Some to hold off the IC, some to keep the system from
crashing (A few guys with "Swerve" utilities that just sit there and
force the system to stay online), and a group to penetrate the system
quickly and rip the data out of it anyway they can. While this would
work for a small time, I would expect the corp to eventually shut off
the power - one way or another - to the system in order to force the
deckers offline. Expect that any system attacked in such a way is
going to be super paranoid over the next few weeks/months/years and
that upgrades will quickly ensue.

Given my knowledge of modern, real-life computer
intrusion/counter-intrusion techniques, these are the
scenarios I would expect. Given my knowledge of Shadowrun
decking...well, give me a few more weeks to get back into the decker
groove and we'll see. ;-)

Downtym |
Email: gte138j@*****.gatech.edu | Post no bills
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (sven)
Subject: Matrix? How many Deckers
Date: Tue Sep 18 02:35:01 2001
White Noise wrote:
>
> QQQ What happens if say a dozen deckers get honked off at a
> certain Corp and
> decide to trash its matrix site. They all have their own
> decks and all jack
> in form different sites. Can they see each other in the
> matrix? Once they

I'd say they meet at a mutual rendez-vous point and continue from there
on. After all you can spot decker icons in the matrix and I'd say it be
easy if the decker is letting you :)

> gain access to the Corp site can they gang-up to fight off IC? Is it
> possible to have so many deckers, that there is not enough IC
> to attack all

Depends a bit on how you interpret the security tally, I for one always
thought that it counts towards all deckers entering that system. Fi. if
a previous decker messed around and raised the security tally up to a
"red" alert you would suffer the consequences of that.

>From that point of view it would certainly make it a lot easier to run
around in a host as a team :)

> of them?(If possible, this would leave some free to run
> amuck, while the others fought the IC).

Yep, I think so. You could assign different tasks to the team members,
fi. scouts (sensor), code breakers (deception utils), slicers (bod and
combat utils), ...

But don't forget that besides IC there could well be an army of deckers
set on standby to defend corporate assets :)

Just my thoughts,

-sven ;)
--
Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Jane VR)
Subject: Matrix? How many Deckers
Date: Tue Sep 18 04:05:02 2001
>
>But don't forget that besides IC there could well be an army of deckers
>set on standby to defend corporate assets :)
>

Do corporate deckers use cyberdecks when defending their system? Or as
legitimate users do they have as much memory access as they need?

Jane

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Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Damion Milliken)
Subject: Matrix? How many Deckers
Date: Tue Sep 18 04:50:01 2001
Jane VR writes:

> Do corporate deckers use cyberdecks when defending their system? Or as
> legitimate users do they have as much memory access as they need?

I think that they still need their own 'deck' to interact with the host.
However, their 'deck' probably wouldn't need Masking, and a whole bunch of
other utilities, and could be a decktop style system rather than a portable
one, and thus could be twice as good as some intruding deckers deck could
be. Additionally, since they'd have the system passcodes, they wouldn't need
to make system tests to do anything, and thus the system wouldn't counter
their successes, and they may well generate many more successes than the
intruding decker is capable of. They don't, as far as I can tell, get to run
the host as their 'deck' - the host still runs ICE and stuff.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
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Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Jane VR)
Subject: Matrix? How many Deckers
Date: Tue Sep 18 05:40:01 2001
>From: Damion Milliken <dam01@***.edu.au>

>Additionally, since they'd have the system passcodes, they wouldn't need
>to make system tests to do anything, and thus the system wouldn't counter
>their successes,


Darn it, something else I've been doing wrong. Thanks for this sentence,
Damion, decking just got a whole lot harder for my PCs. ;)

As far as programs go, the attack programs are m u c h bigger than ones like
Browse and Analyse etc, and with the corp decker using the same rating deck
as the PC (which seemed like a good place to start) IC was more effective
than the decker, which wasn't what I expected.

Jane

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Message no. 7
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Matrix? How many Deckers
Date: Tue Sep 18 05:55:01 2001
On Tue, 18 Sep 2001, Damion Milliken wrote:

> I think that they still need their own 'deck' to interact with the host.
> However, their 'deck' probably wouldn't need Masking, and a whole bunch of
> other utilities, and could be a decktop style system rather than a portable
> one, and thus could be twice as good as some intruding deckers deck could
> be. Additionally, since they'd have the system passcodes, they wouldn't need
> to make system tests to do anything, and thus the system wouldn't counter
> their successes, and they may well generate many more successes than the
> intruding decker is capable of. They don't, as far as I can tell, get to run
> the host as their 'deck' - the host still runs ICE and stuff.

this is covered, IIRC, in the matrix sourcebook. they dont need masking,
and they have lower TN's the higher the rating the system is, enabling
them to attack the intruding deckers easier (unless the deckers also have
legit passcodes...in which case its easy for both of them:-)
the security tallies are individual to the decker, but the system going on
passive or active alert isn't, and applies to all. similarily, ICE is
launched per decker's security tally, so they'd each have to fight/avoid
thier own ICE. theres no rules for desktop style decks, but not having
masking etc would help incerease the all round usefullness of the deck -
the MPCP would only be split three (?) ways instead of four, and so on.
again, the corporate deckers would have thier own decks, but , being a
corporate, generally have better decks than the cobbled together ones the
PC's have. in my game, anyway...:-)



--
john@*****.net
"You can't uninstall evil." -Tycho Brahe
Message no. 8
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Damion Milliken)
Subject: Matrix? How many Deckers
Date: Tue Sep 18 06:10:00 2001
John@*****.co.uk writes:

> theres no rules for desktop style decks

Really? I haven't read Matrix much, but there used to be rules for them in
VR 2.0. Essentially, they costed half as much, and took up significantly
more space, and weighed heaps more.

> again, the corporate deckers would have thier own decks, but , being a
> corporate, generally have better decks than the cobbled together ones the
> PC's have. in my game, anyway...:-)

I usually tend to think that the million nuyen decks that PCs run around
with are not exactly the norm for corp employees, even the decker ones. Only
a couple of corp employees would get million nuyen decks - the rest would
have more economical options. Likewise, PC sammies often tend to have
tricked out guns worth thousands and thousands of nuyen. Most corp security
personnel in your game must be very dangerous if you equip them with
_better_ guns and armour than your players use :-).

As Jane mentioned, ICE is often a more effective protective measure than a
decker. The advantage of a decker is that he is very versatile.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
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Message no. 9
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lady Jestyr)
Subject: Matrix? How many Deckers
Date: Tue Sep 18 06:25:01 2001
At 10:30 AM 18/09/2001 +0000, John@*****.co.uk wrote:

>passive or active alert isn't, and applies to all. similarily, ICE is
>launched per decker's security tally, so they'd each have to fight/avoid
>thier own ICE.

Whoa... I don't have my books to hand, so I can't double check, but this
-really- doesn't make sense. I can't see that legit corp deckers would be
targeted by their own corporation's IC. I certainly wouldn't take a corp
job if that were the case. "What, you want me to throw down against
shadowrunner deckers AND fight off programs that are -supposed- to be on my
side? Er, take your job offer and shove it, I'm off to get a job at the
stuffer shack."

Seriously, that's like a corp hiring a mage for security and saying "Oh, by
the way, if it gets dangerous, our security guards are gonna shoot at you
as well as at the shadowrunners."

Lady Jestyr
"If you can't be a good example, then you'll just
have to be a horrible warning." - Catherine Aird
* jestyr@*****.com | URL: http://www.ladyjestyr.com/ *
Message no. 10
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Matrix? How many Deckers
Date: Tue Sep 18 06:30:01 2001
According to Jane VR, on Tue, 18 Sep 2001 the word on the street was...

> Do corporate deckers use cyberdecks when defending their system? Or as
> legitimate users do they have as much memory access as they need?

They need cyberdecks. However they could have the advantage of plugging
those decks directly into the mainframe, giving them unlimited bandwidth.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If only it were almost easy.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 11
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Damion Milliken)
Subject: Matrix? How many Deckers
Date: Tue Sep 18 07:00:01 2001
Lady Jestyr writes:

> >passive or active alert isn't, and applies to all. similarily, ICE is
> >launched per decker's security tally, so they'd each have to fight/avoid
> >thier own ICE.
>
> Whoa... I don't have my books to hand, so I can't double check, but this
> -really- doesn't make sense. I can't see that legit corp deckers would be
> targeted by their own corporation's IC. I certainly wouldn't take a corp
> job if that were the case. "What, you want me to throw down against
> shadowrunner deckers AND fight off programs that are -supposed- to be on my
> side? Er, take your job offer and shove it, I'm off to get a job at the
> stuffer shack."

But corporate deckers should only be generating a Security Tally if they
start doing things that their passcodes do not allow. If their passcodes
allow them to perform all sorts of combat related actions, then they've
nothing to fear from ICE while combating intruding deckers. OTOH, if they
start to poke around the secure files on their host, and they're not allowed
to, then they may well generate a Security Tally and activate ICE against
them, too.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
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Message no. 12
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Matrix? How many Deckers
Date: Tue Sep 18 08:45:01 2001
On Tue, 18 Sep 2001, Damion Milliken wrote:

>
> Really? I haven't read Matrix much, but there used to be rules for them in
> VR 2.0. Essentially, they costed half as much, and took up significantly
> more space, and weighed heaps more.

cool, sounds interesting for the corporates to have. since VR 2 has been
supersceeded, OOP etc, could you give me a rundown of the rules?

> I usually tend to think that the million nuyen decks that PCs run around
> with are not exactly the norm for corp employees, even the decker ones. Only
> a couple of corp employees would get million nuyen decks - the rest would
> have more economical options. Likewise, PC sammies often tend to have
> tricked out guns worth thousands and thousands of nuyen. Most corp security
> personnel in your game must be very dangerous if you equip them with
> _better_ guns and armour than your players use :-).

oh no, not the general corp, but the corp deckers, yes! :-) reasoning
behind it is that you can put any monkey in armour & weapons, and with
some cyberwear investment (and some corps could do it for cost!) they're
quite effective, deckers need a lot more allround skill etc, and serve as
big bad guys in the system; they know the system inside out...


--
john@*****.net
"You can't uninstall evil." -Tycho Brahe
Message no. 13
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Matrix? How many Deckers
Date: Tue Sep 18 08:45:04 2001
On Tue, 18 Sep 2001, Lady Jestyr wrote:

>
> Whoa... I don't have my books to hand, so I can't double check, but this
> -really- doesn't make sense. I can't see that legit corp deckers would be
> targeted by their own corporation's IC. I certainly wouldn't take a corp

my bad, that was meant to come out referring to the invading deckers only,
since the corp ones have the pascodes and the IC just ignores them..
--
john@*****.net
"You can't uninstall evil." -Tycho Brahe
Message no. 14
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Jonathan)
Subject: Matrix? How many Deckers
Date: Tue Sep 18 10:00:01 2001
> QQQ What happens if say a dozen deckers get honked off at a certain Corp
and
> decide to trash its matrix site. They all have their own decks and all
jack
> in form different sites. Can they see each other in the matrix?

Sensor tests would have to be made to see the icons but yes it is plausible
that they would see each other. Also depends what programs the deckers are
running due to the fact there are two different programs for seeing IC and
icons.


Once they
> gain access to the Corp site can they gang-up to fight off IC?

If they all see it they can attack it.

Is it
> possible to have so many deckers, that there is not enough IC to attack
all
> of them?(If possible, this would leave some free to run amuck, while the
> others fought the IC).
>

yes it is possible that some could be used as a distraction, but in all
honesty if the IC was balck hammer or killjoy do YOU really want to
volunteer to be the decoy?

> White Noise
> (Annoying or Irritating Sound)
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
Message no. 15
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Jonathan)
Subject: Matrix? How many Deckers
Date: Tue Sep 18 10:05:01 2001
> Whoa... I don't have my books to hand, so I can't double check, but this
> -really- doesn't make sense. I can't see that legit corp deckers would be
> targeted by their own corporation's IC. I certainly wouldn't take a corp
> job if that were the case. "What, you want me to throw down against
> shadowrunner deckers AND fight off programs that are -supposed- to be on
my
> side? Er, take your job offer and shove it, I'm off to get a job at the
> stuffer shack."
>
> Seriously, that's like a corp hiring a mage for security and saying "Oh,
by
> the way, if it gets dangerous, our security guards are gonna shoot at you
> as well as at the shadowrunners."
>

Unlike today there are no "passcodes" "passwords" etc. A corps IC
WOULD be
able to recognize friendlies or it would end up attacking gray and white IC
as well whenever it came in contact.
Message no. 16
From: shadowrn@*********.com (aaron b chappell)
Subject: Matrix? How many Deckers
Date: Tue Sep 18 17:50:00 2001
That sounds like an interesting shadowrun, Infiltrate site A and keep
corp goons from pulling plug B for X number of minutes so deckers can
make life merry hell for the mega's system, *Evil GM Cackle* (TM). Maybe
if anyone expresses interest I'll tell ya'll how it went. Or even go and
geek corp deckers while there Jacked In to help out.


Gwylly, Elven Speed Adept and Wetworker (Reasonable Rates Flexible
Methods
"One for all and all for one if he's out of arms reach than go for your
gun"
Words to live by
Death on the Wind (TM)

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Message no. 17
From: shadowrn@*********.com (sven)
Subject: Matrix? How many Deckers
Date: Tue Sep 18 22:35:01 2001
Jane VR wrote:

> As far as programs go, the attack programs are m u c h bigger
> than ones like
> Browse and Analyse etc, and with the corp decker using the
> same rating deck
> as the PC (which seemed like a good place to start) IC was
> more effective
> than the decker, which wasn't what I expected.

With the difference that the decker can go on stealth mode and the IC
can't. The decker can use the combat manoeuvers much more to their
advance where as the IC just have as goal to eliminate a threat and go
straight for their target.

Occasionally I use NPC deckers that aren't corporate related, but are
accessing the system at the same time as the PC (just to confuse the
players that not every NPC is a target :)).
Last time the PC was asked to urgently leave the system node alone buy
another illegal decker (NPC) because he was messing up the system and
this endangered the NPCs mission/goals (just to make the matrix world a
bit more alive :)).

just my thoughts,

-sven ;)
--
Message no. 18
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lady Jestyr)
Subject: Matrix? How many Deckers
Date: Tue Sep 18 23:30:03 2001
At 11:34 AM 18/09/2001 -02-30, Jonathan wrote:

>> Seriously, that's like a corp hiring a mage for security and saying "Oh,
>by
>> the way, if it gets dangerous, our security guards are gonna shoot at you
>> as well as at the shadowrunners."
>>
>
>Unlike today there are no "passcodes" "passwords" etc. A corps IC
WOULD be
>able to recognize friendlies or it would end up attacking gray and white IC
>as well whenever it came in contact.

I agree with you in principle, but one minor niggle on the fact side: if
there are no passcodes or passwords, what's the "Validate Passcode"
operation for?

Lady Jestyr
"If you can't be a good example, then you'll just
have to be a horrible warning." - Catherine Aird
* jestyr@*****.com | URL: http://www.ladyjestyr.com/ *
Message no. 19
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Jonathan)
Subject: Matrix? How many Deckers
Date: Tue Sep 18 23:40:01 2001
> I agree with you in principle, but one minor niggle on the fact side: if
> there are no passcodes or passwords, what's the "Validate Passcode"
> operation for?
>

I imagine I could be mistaken in a ceratin degree. From the main book and
the canon companion you do have access to keypads and what not. Validate
passcode could be a nodes operation in handling that data (recognizing say a
vault doors combination). Then again it could actually mean deckers/system
users have passcodes rather than say a security level (ie Joe smoe from sub
level 6 would have security access to sub level 6 terminals however trying
to use his sub level 6 identification from a sub level 5 terminal would
result in a passive/full alert)

Mind you this is all speculation and assumption on my part for in truth I
know very little about the matrix and how it exactly works :)
Message no. 20
From: shadowrn@*********.com (White Noise)
Subject: Matrix? How many Deckers
Date: Tue Sep 18 23:40:07 2001
>From: aaron b chappell <wetworker4@****.com>
>Reply-To: shadowrn@*********.com
>To: shadowrn@*********.com
>Subject: Re: Matrix? How many Deckers
>Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 17:46:35 -0700
>
>That sounds like an interesting shadowrun, Infiltrate site A and keep
>corp goons from pulling plug B for X number of minutes so deckers can
>make life merry hell for the mega's system, *Evil GM Cackle* (TM). Maybe
>if anyone expresses interest I'll tell ya'll how it went. Or even go and
>geek corp deckers while there Jacked In to help out.

I'd like to know how it went.

My original idea was inspired by the movie The Sting. When somebody asked
the Old Pro if he thought they could get anybody to help them pay the bad
guy back, his reply was(something like) "Luther only had a few friends, so
we can probably only count on four or five thousand guys to help us".

If a Corp geeked somebody that all the shadow runners really liked, and they
did it in a way that it pissed everyone off, there would likely be lots of
Runners looking to get even. Even a Corp has finite resources. Corps are
used to dealing with less than a dozen Runners at a time. If lots showed up
and made a coordinated attack on the Corp it would be in real trouble. And
if the Matrix Run also involved a Ground Assault that trouble would quickly
get out of the Corp's control. If there were enough other problems out in
the City even Lone Star would have a hard time figuring out were to respond
first.

White Noise
(Annoying or Irritating Sound)

>Gwylly, Elven Speed Adept and Wetworker (Reasonable Rates Flexible
>Methods
>"One for all and all for one if he's out of arms reach than go for your
>gun"
> Words to live by
>Death on the Wind (TM)
>
>________________________________________________________________
>GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
>Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
>Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
>http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
>


_________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 21
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Damion Milliken)
Subject: Matrix? How many Deckers
Date: Wed Sep 19 11:40:00 2001
White Noise writes:

> If a Corp geeked somebody that all the shadow runners really liked, and they
> did it in a way that it pissed everyone off, there would likely be lots of
> Runners looking to get even. Even a Corp has finite resources. Corps are
> used to dealing with less than a dozen Runners at a time. If lots showed up
> and made a coordinated attack on the Corp it would be in real trouble. And
> if the Matrix Run also involved a Ground Assault that trouble would quickly
> get out of the Corp's control. If there were enough other problems out in
> the City even Lone Star would have a hard time figuring out were to respond
> first.

Of course, the level of planning, organisation, and co-ordination required
for such a simultaneous strike by a large number of dissidents may well
catch the attention of those it is to be directed against before it occurs,
prompting either heightened security or perhaps pre-emptive retaliation.
It'd probably be about as likely as terrorists simultaneously hijacking four
planes and crashing them into the World Trade Center and Pentagon without
successfully being detected by counter-terrorist and intelligence
agencies... ;-)

Oh, wait, maybe it's not so outlandish at all ... :-(

How effective do people consider SR era corporate (and government)
intelligence agencies to be? Are they of a standard that would possibly tap
into such plannings? Do the corps have 'spies' on the streets and in the
runner communities? It would certainly be conceivable, especially
considering that many runners are ex-corp employees. It wouldn't be too
difficult to slip agents into the stream. Additionally, corp Johnsons/Fixers
are already tapped right into the runner network, and so determining the
'word on the street' might not be too difficult at all.

What do you think the chances are of my team of runners successfully
planning and pulling of a hijacking of 4 airliners from Sea-Tac, and then
crashing them into the Renraku Arcology? <grin>

Would Renraku get word of this plan? Would the airline companies or whoever
runs Sea-Tac (Seattle government?) get wind of it when the runners started
asking around for things like details on the security systems used at the
airport, or the flight plans of particular long range aircraft? How about
when they began to suss out structural plans of the Arc, in order to find
the best spot to hit. And to dig into anti-air defence plans for the Arc. Is
it likely that Renraku would hear about this through their networks? Would
they then persue things and try to find out what was actually happening, and
perhaps put a stop to it?

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
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Message no. 22
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Valeu John EMFA)
Subject: Matrix? How many Deckers
Date: Wed Sep 19 13:05:01 2001
>> If a Corp geeked somebody that all the shadow runners really liked, and
they
>> did it in a way that it pissed everyone off, there would likely be lots
of
>> Runners looking to get even. Even a Corp has finite resources. Corps are
>> used to dealing with less than a dozen Runners at a time. If lots showed
up
>> and made a coordinated attack on the Corp it would be in real trouble.
And
>> if the Matrix Run also involved a Ground Assault that trouble would
quickly
>> get out of the Corp's control. If there were enough other problems out in

>> the City even Lone Star would have a hard time figuring out were to
respond
>> first.

<snip>
>How effective do people consider SR era corporate (and government)
>intelligence agencies to be? Are they of a standard that would possibly tap
>into such plannings? Do the corps have 'spies' on the streets and in the
>runner communities? It would certainly be conceivable, especially
>considering that many runners are ex-corp employees. It wouldn't be too
>difficult to slip agents into the stream. Additionally, corp
Johnsons/Fixers
>are already tapped right into the runner network, and so determining the
>'word on the street' might not be too difficult at all.

Isn't this what the wrong party table in the SR comp is for?

>What do you think the chances are of my team of runners successfully
>planning and pulling of a hijacking of 4 airliners from Sea-Tac, and then
>crashing them into the Renraku Arcology? <grin>

Sure, if you're discreet and maybe use only one (possibly two) jets, it
could work.

>Would Renraku get word of this plan? Would the airline companies or whoever
>runs Sea-Tac (Seattle government?) get wind of it when the runners started
>asking around for things like details on the security systems used at the
>airport, or the flight plans of particular long range aircraft? How about
>when they began to suss out structural plans of the Arc, in order to find
>the best spot to hit. And to dig into anti-air defence plans for the Arc.
Is
>it likely that Renraku would hear about this through their networks? Would
>they then persue things and try to find out what was actually happening,
and
>perhaps put a stop to it?

I think general blue-prints are easily availability (re: green host) and
from those, it should just be a matter of planing for anyone with a demo
background to gauge where to hit.
(Demolition background only. I prefer to think of the active skill of the
wiring/dismantling of the bomb.)
Message no. 23
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Bira)
Subject: Matrix? How many Deckers
Date: Wed Sep 19 16:30:01 2001
On Tue, 18 Sep 2001 20:38:55 -0700
"White Noise" <whytenoise@*******.com> wrote:

> If a Corp geeked somebody that all the shadow runners really liked, and they
> did it in a way that it pissed everyone off, there would likely be lots of
> Runners looking to get even. Even a Corp has finite resources. Corps are
> used to dealing with less than a dozen Runners at a time. If lots showed up
> and made a coordinated attack on the Corp it would be in real trouble. And
> if the Matrix Run also involved a Ground Assault that trouble would quickly
> get out of the Corp's control. If there were enough other problems out in
> the City even Lone Star would have a hard time figuring out were to respond
> first.

There really aren't that many runners around, so their response wouldn't be in the
form of massive assaults. They'd do what they do best: use sneaky guerrila tactics. Except
this time the ops wouldn't be the "polite" stuff they usually do. Sure, get in
and steal heaps of paydata - but this time leave a bomb (or a Green Ring-8 dispenser) on
your way out.

The decker assault could still be done, since it doesn't take an army to do it.

This is not enough to destroy a big corp (say, a mega), but with planning the
runners can hurt them noticeably. If the responsible for the initial murder was Ares, for
example, they could targer one of it's subsidiaries.


--
Bira -- SysOp da Shadowland.BR
http://www.shadowland.com.br
Redator de Shadowrun da RPG em Revista
http://www.rpgemrevista.f2s.com
Message no. 24
From: shadowrn@*********.com (aaron b chappell)
Subject: Matrix? How many Deckers
Date: Thu Sep 20 16:15:01 2001
> Corps are
>used to dealing with less than a dozen Runners at a time. If lots showed
up
>and made a coordinated attack on the Corp it would be in real trouble.
And
>if the Matrix Run also involved a Ground Assault that trouble would
quickly
>get out of the Corp's control. If there were enough other problems out
in
>the City even Lone Star would have a hard time figuring out were to
respond
>first.

Hey all,

Look at the cannon ball shadowrun on Mr. Zeebub's Shadowrun Page It
Reminds me of something to that effect


Gwylly, Elven Speed Adept and Wetworker (Reasonable Rates Flexible
Methods
"One for all and all for one if he's out of arms reach than go for your
gun"
Words to live by
Death on the Wind (TM)

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Message no. 25
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Wallace Blade)
Subject: Matrix? How many Deckers
Date: Thu Sep 20 17:40:01 2001
And, they don't have to have all the chips in their deck, so they can have
them higher leveled too. :)

Wallace Blade
Sepherim (Dagger in sperethiel)
"The Matrix was made to serve,
but only obeys those of us that love her."
Nodo 666: http://www16.brinkster.com/sepherim


_________________________________________________________________
Descargue GRATUITAMENTE MSN Explorer en http://explorer.msn.es/intl.asp
Message no. 26
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Matrix? How many Deckers
Date: Tue Sep 25 09:10:01 2001
On Thu, 20 Sep 2001, Damion Milliken wrote:

>
> How effective do people consider SR era corporate (and government)
> intelligence agencies to be? Are they of a standard that would possibly tap
> into such plannings? Do the corps have 'spies' on the streets and in the
> runner communities? It would certainly be conceivable, especially

I have always thought that its a matter of direction, and that they're
both good.. ie Govt. spooks can spy on other goverments, military buildups
etc, and thats pretty much thier remit, but corp. spooks would be more
"corporate shadowrunners", and they're very good at industrial espionage.
I'm sure both areas overlap at times, but generally they'd focus on thier
areas; corporate spies would focus on other corporate plans, which is what
makes shadowrunners so effective; they meet with a johnson once, and the
plans hot to trot, and deniable, not using corp resources etc...
the flip side of this is that if the corp spooks decide the runners are
too much of a threat they've got the expertise adn manpower to hunt them
down and squash them, but generally they dont; also becuase teh same spook
may want to use the same team for a mission of thier own in a week or
two...:-)
I dont see Johnson's feeding intel back up the chain, more of them going
to a denaible resource for discrete jobs, I dont see them tied into the
shadow underworld as much as say, a fixer..

--
john@*****.net
Debi Newberry: You're a psychopath.
Martin Blank: No, no. Psychopaths kill for no reason. I kill for *money*.
It's a *job*. That didn't come out right. - Gross Point Blank

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