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Message no. 1
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Matrix (long but worth looking at :)
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 10:09:23 +0200
I've finally done it!

What? No, something else :)

I've written my own replacement for SR2's decking rules. Many of you
probably know about my feelings toward the rules in both VR and SR2, and
today I had some ideas buzzing around inside my head, so I sat down behind
my word processor and typed them down. The result is below, tell me what you
think...

(I've suddenly got this urge to buy an asbestos suit :)

---------------
MATRIX RULES v3.0

Why this, then?
Decking sucks where game mechanics are concerned. You roll loads of dice,
nothing ever happens, everything happens at once, and it's too abstract to
get a good idea of what is going on. Those, at least, are my own personal
feelings toward it. I bought Virtual Realities because I thought it would
help, but it only made things worse; now that Virtual Realities 2 is
supposed to come out this year, maybe things will get better. In the
meantime, this chapter is an attempt to make things more workable.

NODES
Nodes are no longer abstract places where you can be at any place or range
you desire nearly immediately. From now on, nodes are mapped out on grid
paper; the more powerful the node, the larger the area it encompasses.
For mapping out a node, you'll need grid paper, with the number of squares
contained in a node being equal to the Security Code (p.14, Virtual
Realities). For those who don't own this book, multiply the System Rating by
1 for a Blue node, 2 for a Green node, 3 for an Orange node, and 4 for a Red
node. The following table lists it all precisely:

NODE AREA TABLE
NODE 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Blue 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Green 2 4 6 8 10 12 14 16
Orange 3 6 9 12 15 18 21 24
Red 4 8 12 16 20 24 28 32

In a normal UMS (Universal Matrix Specifications) node, the node has a shape
that shows its function: an SPU is hexagonal, a datastore is square, etc. In
such systems, it can be a bit tricky to draw the node large enough for it to
have a "floorspace" equal to the area given on the table.
Sculpted nodes can have any shape the designer programmed into them, as long
as they have the required area. For example, you could make an SPU look like
an "L" instead of a hexagon.

Datalines
A dataline must end in one of the squares at the edge of a node. They may
not end inbetween two squares. Any number of datalines may end in the same
square.

Movement
A decker may move a number of squares up to his Intelligence per Action. If
he moves into a dataline, the entire dataline counts as one square, no
matter its actual length. The persona may not move through anything that
blocks the decker (the sides of the node, certain kinds of IC, etc.), but an
infinite number of personas and IC may occupy any given square. There's no
stacking rules in the Matrix, chummers.
Intelligence-boosting bioware or cyberware does increase the decker's
movement rate, but similar magic does not.

System Operations
These remain unchanged from those mentioned in SRII and Virtual Realities
(pages 166/167 and 11, respectively).

Hacking Pool
This is unchanged from the rules on page 85 of SRII.

COMBAT
This procedure has been significantly altered, to make it much more like
physical combat than it is in the SRII rules.
The steps taken are as follows:

1. Determine Range
Most utilities and ICE cannot make ranged attacks. The attacker must be in a
square adjacent to that of the target, or in the same square.
2. Make Attacker's Success Test
The attacker rolls a number of dice equal to the rating of the utility in
use, plus any desired Hacking Pool dice. Count the successes.
3. Make Target's Damage Resistance Test
If the attack was successful, the target makes a Damage Resistance Test;
deckers use their Bod rating, IC uses its rating. Count the successes
4. Determine the Result
Compare the successes. Depending on who rolled the most successes, the
damage is staged appropriately. A tie means the utility or IC does its base
damage. A clean miss occurs if the number of successes from the target's
Hacking Pool dice exceeds the attacker's successes.
5. Apply Damage
The damage is staged appropriately and applied to the target's condition
monitor.

Range and Base Target Number
Range for most utilities and IC is 1, which means the attacker must be in a
square adjacent to the target, or in the same square as the target.
Utilities with the Ranged option may attack from further away, as may some
IC (see below for details).
The base target number is the IC's rating for attacks against IC, or the
deck's Evasion rating if an atack is made against a decker. Some situational
modifiers may apply, usually incurred through use of defense utilities or
injuries.

-----
Phul Throttle is in a bit of a nasty situation, with that Killer-4 IC coming
up to, well, kill his deck. Phul whips out his Attack-5, and fires it at the
IC when it's come close enough. His target number is 4 because of the IC's
rating.
-----

Attacker's Success Test
The attacker rolls a number of of dice equal to the rating of the utility in
use. If the attacker is a decker, he may add Hacking Pool dice, though not
more than the base number of dice in use.

-----
Phul rolls 4 extra dice from his Hacking Pool, making it 9 in total. His
target number is 4; he scores 3 successes.
-----

Target's Damage Resistance Test
The target, if it is IC, rolls its rating against the rating of the
attacking utility. If the target is a decker, he rolls his Bod against the
attacking utility's rating, but he may substract his deck's Hardening from
the target number, just as armor does against a physical attack.

-----
The IC, being rating 4, rolls 4 dice against a target number of 5, scoring 1
success.
-----

Determine Result
Utilities and IC that can be used to actively attack with have a Damage
Code. Damage does not start at Light anymore, instead every Attack and
similar utilities must be bought with a damage built into it. The same goes
for IC.
If the attacker has more successes, the Damage Level is staged up by 1 for
every 2 successes in the attacker's favor. If the target has more successes,
the Damage Level is staged down in the same manner.

-----
Phul has 3 successes, the IC only 1, so that means there's 2 successes in
Phul's favor. Phul's Attack-5 has Moderate staging, His two successes bring
the damage done to the IC up to Serious.
-----

Apply Damage
This is done as normal.

UTILITIES

Executing a Utility
For all except for Combat utilities, make an Execution Test by rolling a
number of dice equal to the utility's rating, plus any desired Hacking Pool
dice. The target number is the node's System Rating, and the decker must
roll enough successes to beat the Security Rating (p.165, SRII). Note that
the number of net successes is equal to the number rolled, minus the number
required; if you roll 6 successes in a Red node, your utility works with 2
net successes.
With Combat utilities, the making of the attack counts as the Execution
Test, but it does still need to generate enough successes to overcome the
Security Rating.
The more successes, the better the utility works. There is no Resistance
Test on the part of the node.
Executing any utility is a Complex Action, unless otherwise noted. Utilities
either work continuously, or only at the moment they are activated.

Multiple Utilities At The Same Time
A decker can have more than one utility running at the same time, but at a cost.
-Any Hacking Pool dice used for one utility are not available for other
tests until that utility is shut down, either by the decker or by some other
means.
-For every utility past the first that is running, add +2 to all the
decker's target numbers, except Damage Resistance Tests.
-Switching a running utility off is a Free Action.

A decker may activate multiple utilities in the same Complex Action, but at
a +2 target number modifier per utility past the first.

UTILITY DESCRIPTIONS
Following are descriptions of all utilities that need to be altered to fit
in with these new Matrix rules. Utilities that are not mentioned can be used
unaltered from either SRII or Virtual Realities, but note that whenever
their description speaks of "successes," it means "net successes."

Armor
When executed, this utility adds its net successes to the Bod of the deck.
It degrades by 1 point every time a successful attack is made against the
persona's Bod Rating while Armor is active. The increase in Bod can never be
greater than Armor's Rating, including when Armor degrades past the increase
it originally provided. In such a case, the Bod increase becomes equal to
the new rating.
Once activated, Armor runs continually until switched off, or until its
rating reaches 0. In the latter case, its rating can be restored to normal
by shutting down and re-booting the cyberdeck.
When placed in a frame, its rating becomes the Bod Attribute of the frame.
Options: Link
Size: Rating^2 x 3 Mp

Attack
Attack must be bought with a specific Damage Level, which is the base damage
done by the Utility on a successful attack. Attack can be bought without a
Damage Level, in which case it starts at no damage, but can be staged up.
For example, Kev rolls 3 net successes for his no-damage Attack, meaning he
does a Light wound to his target. Had he rolled only 1 net success, he would
have done no damage whatsoever.
Attack -No damage: Size: Rating^2 x 2 Mp
Attack(L) -Light damage: Size: (Rating+1)^2 x 2 Mp
Attack(M) -Moderate damage: Size: (Rating+2)^2 x 2 Mp
Attack (S) -Serious damage: Size: (Rating+3)^2 x 2 Mp
Attack(D) -Deadly damage: Size: (Rating+5)^2 x 2 Mp
All: Options: Area-Effect, Link, Mobility, One-Shot, Penetration, Range
Target: Evasion against personas; IC Rating against IC

Auto Execute
This utility allows other utilities to be run simultaneously without
imposing a +2 modifier on the decker. It does not make Execution Tests
unnecessary, so its function is totally different than it is under Virtual
Realities rules!
Auto Execute must be run using an Execution Test, like any other utility. If
successful, it can control a total number of rating points of other
utilities equal to its number of successes multiplied by the deck's MPCP rating.

-----
Phul launches an Auto Execute-4 in a Blue-3 node. The program gets 2
successes, modified to 1 for being in a Blue node. Phul's MPCP is 5, so his
Auto Execute can control up to 5 rating points in other utilities.
-----

Note however that Auto Execute itself still gives a +2 if used at the same
time as another program. It cannot control itself, though it can be
controlled by another Auto Execute (which is rather pointless, by the way).
Auto Execute is required in a frame. Running it for that purpose requires an
Execution Test against a target number 4 to determine how many rating points
it may control.
Options: Link
Size: Rating^2 Mp

Black Hammer
This must be bought like Attack, and uses all rules for that utility. It
does Physical damage on the decker, instead of damaging the persona.
Options: Area-Effect, Mobility, One-Shot, Penetration, Range
Size: Rating^2 x 70 Mp
Cost Availability Street Index
rating x 20,000Y 24/30 days 5

Cloak
When executed, this utility adds its net successes to the Masking of the
deck. It degrades by 1 point every time a successful attack is made against
the persona's Masking Rating while Cloak is active. The increase in Masking
can never be greater than Cloak's Rating, including when Cloak degrades past
the increase it originally provided. In such a case, the Masking increase
becomes equal to the new rating.
Once activated, Cloak runs continually until switched off, or until its
rating reaches 0. In the latter case, its rating can be restored to normal
by shutting down and re-booting the cyberdeck.
When placed in a frame, its rating becomes the Masking Attribute of the frame.
Options: Link
Size: Rating^2 x 3 Mp

Killjoy
This must be bought like Attack, and uses all rules for that utility. It
does Stun damage on the decker, instead of damaging the persona.
Options: Area-Effect, Mobility, One-Shot, Penetration, Range
Size: Rating^2 x 60 Mp
Cost Availability Street Index
rating x 15,000Y 20/21 days 5

Mirrors
When executed, this utility adds its net successes to the Evasion of the
deck. It degrades by 1 point every time a successful attack is made against
the persona's Evasion rating while Mirrors is active The increase in Masking
can never be greater than Mirrors' Rating, including when Mirrors degrades
past the increase it originally provided. In such a case, the Evasion
increase becomes equal to the new rating.
Once activated, Mirrors runs continually until switched off, or until its
rating reaches 0. In the latter case, its rating can be restored to normal
by shutting down and re-booting the cyberdeck.
When placed in a frame, its rating becomes the Evasion Attribute of the frame.
Options: Link
Size: Rating^2 x 3 Mp

Relocate
When run, make an Execution Test against the Trace IC's rating. The Trace
rolls a Resistance Test usin the persona's Masking Rating as the target
number. If Relocate has more successes, the IC is sent on a wild goose chase.
Options: Link, Range
Size: Rating^2 x 2 Mp

Shield
When executed, this utility adds its net successes to the Hardening of the
deck. It degrades by 1 point every time an attack against which Hardening
defends, hits the persona while Shield is active. The increase in Hardening
can never be greater than Shield's Rating, including when Shield degrades
past the increase it originally provided. In such a case, the Hardening
increase becomes equal to the new rating.
Once activated, Shield runs continually until switched off, or until its
rating reaches 0. In the latter case, its rating can be restored to normal
by shutting down and re-booting the cyberdeck.
Options: Link
Size: Rating^2 x 4 Mp

Sleaze
Sleaze can be used against Access or Barrier IC or a Scanner utility. If the
Execution Test has at least 1 success, the persona becomes invisible to the
target.
If the decker stays within 1 square of the IC or other persona, he must
re-Sleaze every turn, but qith a +1 target number modifier per turn.
Options: Link, Range
Size: Rating^2 x 3 Mp

Smoke
Smoke causes a target number penalty to come in effect, +1 for every 2
successes rolled on the Execution Test. This penalty applies only in the
square the persona occupies when Smoke is executed, and the Smoke will stay
there even if the decker moves away. Once launched, a cloud of Smoke loses 1
point off the modifier per turn it stays active. A decker can launch as many
Smoke programs as he wants to, but they can only be placed into the square
the decker's persona is in.
Options: Link, Mobility, One-Shot, Range
Size: Rating^2 x 2 Mp


OPTIONS
Most options stay unmodified from Virtual Realities. Those that are changed
are noted here, as well as a new option called Range.

Area-Effect
For every point bought, the area of effect increase by one square; all
squares must be adjacent to one another, though they need not be formed into
a geometrical shape.
Area-Effect is incompatible with the Penetration option, while Shield
utilities function at twice their number of rolled successes, though it
degrades normally. Also add +2 to the target's Bod Rating or the IC's rating
(of the IC has hardened defenses) to resist the damage.
To determine the size of a utility with the Area-Effect option, add the
Area-Effect rating to the utility's rating.

Mobility
This needs a small addition, namely that the movement rate of a Mobile
utility is equal to its rating, but it must remain within line of sight of
the decker.

Range
For every point of Range bought, the persona may use the utility from 1
square of distance. Normally, a decker may only affect IC or personas in the
same square the decker is in, or in any adjacent squares; with Range 2, he
may affect any target or square within 3 squares with the one he occupies
himself. The maximum Range is equal to the rating of the utility.
To determine the size of a utility with the Range option, add +1 to its
rating per point of Range bought.

Staging
This option is not used anymore. If you've got an Attack program with
Staging, simply convert it to the corresponding new Attack proghram on page
xx--Attack with Serious staging becomes an Attack(S), for example..

INTRUSION COUNTERMEASURES
Under these new rules, IC must also be modified a bit. No longer omnipresent
in a node, they now have to conform to the square grid too.
Any necessary modifications to general or specific types of IC are noted below.

White IC
White IC is usually placed in a specific square, and will most often
interrogate anything that passes through or into that square or any square
adjacent to it. This means IC is most often placed at points where a node
can be entered or left--much more efficient than trying to form a row of IC
across a node.
If a persona remains within White IC's range, the IC will try to interrogate
it on every Action it gets. White is generally has a movement rate of 0, so
it can't move through a node.

Barrier
Barrier can affect a number of squares up to its rating, but the more it has
to protect, the weaker it becomes--the actual rating used to see if a
persona can Sleaze past it or kill it is its full rating divided by the
squares it protects. Round off to the nearest whole number: Barrier-8
extending over 3 squares uses a rating 3 against attempts to deceive or
destroy it.
If the decker crashes it, it disappears completely, and not just in the
square that was attacked.
Load Rating: 1/2 Rating (round down)
Movement: 0

Gray IC
For Gray IC, the movement rate equal to the IC's rating.

Killer
Normal Killer has a base damage of a Light wound and has a Load Rating equal
to 1/2 times its rating (round down).
Killer(M) has a base damage of a Moderate wound and has a Load Rating equal
to its rating.
Killer(S) has a base damage of a Serious wound and has a Load Rating equal
to 1 1/2 times its rating (round down).
Killer(D) has a base damage of a Deadly wound and has a Load Rating equal to
2 times its rating.
Target: Bod
Load Rating: see above


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Wizards never die, they just become metaphysically challenged
GC3.0: GAT/! dpu s:- !a>? C+(++) U P L E? W(++) N K- w+ O V? PS+ PE Y PGP-
t(+) 5 X R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G++ e h! !r(--) y? Unofficial Shadowrun
Guru :)
Message no. 2
From: John IV <John.Moeller@*.CC.UTAH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Matrix (long but worth looking at :)
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 18:58:05 -0600
I think your ideas are innovative, but I have a couple problems.

1. Space, and thus range, have no meaning in a computer's memory.
2. The number of programs running at a time is limited by a computer's
RAM, so there can't be an infinite number of programs. I think, however,
that RAM 61 years in the future will be a lot more sophisticated, so I
usually don't follow that rule anyway.
3. When you attack, you are attacking pieces of data. So I don't think
it should be like physical attacks.

I have a few problems with the current system, though.

1. It is incredibly complex and abstract, and you don't have any sense
of achieving anything (agreeing with gurth).
2. I don't think you should be able to see every connection exiting a
node. There are such things as hidden directories nowadays.

John IV <John.Moeller@*.cc.utah.edu>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Sometimes after an electrical storm I see in 5 dimensions. Why are the
sixty of you looking at me like that?"

--Cornfed, from _Duckman_
Message no. 3
From: Nika Nikolic <MNik@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Matrix (long but worth looking at :)
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 01:40:17 -0400
> I think your ideas are innovative, but I have a couple problems.

1. Space, and thus range, have no meaning in a computer's memory.
2. The number of programs running at a time is limited by a computer's
RAM, so there can't be an infinite number of programs. I think, however,
that RAM 61 years in the future will be a lot more sophisticated, so I
usually don't follow that rule anyway.
3. When you attack, you are attacking pieces of data. So I don't think
it should be like physical attacks.

I have a few problems with the current system, though.

1. It is incredibly complex and abstract, and you don't have any sense
of achieving anything (agreeing with gurth).
2. I don't think you should be able to see every connection exiting a
node. There are such things as hidden directories nowadays. <

but the way the matrix is made is it has no "walls", there are very few
retrictions on the actions done in the matrix. i agree with the hidden
directory/files view but then the person should look for that, since even
nowadays there are ways to see hidden files.

"Bandit" - Mika Nikolic
Message no. 4
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Matrix (long but worth looking at :)
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 11:08:00 +0200
>1. Space, and thus range, have no meaning in a computer's memory.

I know, I introduced those grid squares to make it easier on the players and
GM (my usual reaction to Matrix runs is "let's give it a shot (again)" and
after ten minutes I find myself saying "HERE! YOU FIND THIS, THAT, AND SUCH
DATA! I HATE THIS FUCKING MATRIX SHIT!" :).
I haven't tested the new rules yet, but I think that at least for me they'll
make it all a lot easier because I can have a much better sense of where
everything is, compared to those irritating things like "Sensor Range." If
you, OTOH, like those ranges, be my guest and keep using them.

>2. The number of programs running at a time is limited by a computer's
> RAM, so there can't be an infinite number of programs. I think, however,
> that RAM 61 years in the future will be a lot more sophisticated, so I
> usually don't follow that rule anyway.

I thought I didn't have to explain anymore that you can only run as many
programs as your Active memory allows... Maybe I should put that in anyway :)

>3. When you attack, you are attacking pieces of data. So I don't think
> it should be like physical attacks.

I think the _procedure_ should be the same -- it makes no sense at all to me
why Matrix combat is to _totally_ different from both physical and astral
combat as to warrant what is in fact a whole new combat system.


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
En ik zeg je weer niet wat ik nu denk dat ik je eigenlijk zeggen wil...
GC3.0: GAT/! dpu s:- !a>? C+(++) U P L E? W(++) N K- w+ O V? PS+ PE Y PGP-
t(+) 5 X R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G++ e h! !r(--) y? Unofficial Shadowrun
Guru :)
Message no. 5
From: "S.F. Eley" <gt6877c@*****.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Matrix (long but worth looking at :)
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 08:44:43 -0400
> >3. When you attack, you are attacking pieces of data. So I don't think
> > it should be like physical attacks.
>
> I think the _procedure_ should be the same -- it makes no sense at all to me
> why Matrix combat is to _totally_ different from both physical and astral
> combat as to warrant what is in fact a whole new combat system.

In physical combat, you're pulling a gun and shooting someone, or you're
pulling a sword and stabbing someone, or you're pulling a fist and breaking
someone's nose. Whatever you're doing, it's YOU doing it, and any weapons
you use are simply tools, extensions of yourself that behave according to
your skill.

In astral combat, you're manipulating the energy fields around someone.
Skill and innate magical ability are often the ONLY things involved.. If
you're lucky you have a weapon focus, which is once again an extension of
your own magic. Skill is still the critical factor. You're in control.

In Matrix combat, you're running a program and saying "See that IC? Now go
do your job." The attack program is NOT an extension of yourself; it's an
independent factor, and the way it attacks IC (and the way IC attacks your
persona, which isn't you either) is only metaphorically "combat." It's
much more a matter of decryption, memory reallocation, address redirection
and data-traffic scrambling, and it's not something a meat entity could do
within 3 seconds. Hence, Matrix combat is much more automatic, and the
decker's skill makes a difference only in how quickly he can execute his
programs, and whether he can modify their interfaces to match IC
situationally. He doesn't do "the real work," his programs do.

Because Matrix combat is automated data manipulation, and the other two
forms of combat aren't, it makes sense to me that Matrix combat looks
totally different.


Blessings,

_TNX._

--
Stephen F. Eley (-) gt6877c@*****.gatech.edu )-( Student Pagan Community
http://wc62.residence.gatech.edu| "The forces of evil are
My opinions are my opinions. | persistent, sir."
Please don't blame anyone else. | -- _Under a Killing Moon_
Message no. 6
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Matrix (long but worth looking at :)
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 23:03:36 +1000
S.F. Eley writes:

> [Physcial combat _you_ do it]
> [Astral combat _you_ do it]
> [Matrix combat you do _not_ do it]
>
> Because Matrix combat is automated data manipulation, and the other two
> forms of combat aren't, it makes sense to me that Matrix combat looks
> totally different.

In a role-playing sense, yes. But it makes an awful lot of sense to me if
the three combat systems used the same system to represent the combat. Less
rules to remember. The way the combat looks is entirely a role-playing and
descriptive thing. The way it works is merely a number crunching thing. I
think it'd be better if all combat systems had the same (or very closely
linked) systems, so as to speed up the number crunching part of combat.
Besides, from the descriptions of matrix combat in novels, it seems that the
decker actually feels like he's engaging in real combat anyway, so why not
have the same system for it? That way it actually helps get the decker into
the feel and mood of it, so that he thinks he's actually engaging in a
viscious sword fight with that balck ICE, when really he's running
subroutines.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a19 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+$ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
Message no. 7
From: Samuel Jones <sjones1@***.UNICOMP.NET>
Subject: Re: Matrix (long but worth looking at :)
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 12:24:44 CDT
>>3. When you attack, you are attacking pieces of data. So I don't think
>> it should be like physical attacks.
>
>I think the _procedure_ should be the same -- it makes no sense at all to me
>why Matrix combat is to _totally_ different from both physical and astral
>combat as to warrant what is in fact a whole new combat system.

I agree. When you do Astral attacks, your actually attacking someone's
psyche, or aura, or spirit, or whatever, but the combat system is the same.
When you go into the Matrix, the system itself is trying to simulate
reality(that's why it's called Virtual Reality!) That is why ideally the
player will tell you what his programs look like. ex: an attack program
isn't just an attack program, it's a huge cannon, or a dart, or a missile,
or an Ares Predator. Looking at the icons for attack programs, it makes
sense that an Ares Predator attack program can fire at a different range
than a Katana attack program of the same rating! Try not to dwell on what
is actually happening and concentrate on what the Matrix is trying to make
you THINK is happening.
Message no. 8
From: John IV <John.Moeller@*.CC.UTAH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Matrix (long but worth looking at :)
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 12:06:16 -0600
On Tue, 25 Jul 1995, Nika Nikolic wrote:

> but the way the matrix is made is it has no "walls", there are very few
> retrictions on the actions done in the matrix. i agree with the hidden
> directory/files view but then the person should look for that, since even
> nowadays there are ways to see hidden files.

Right. The decker does see things that the average wage-slave doesn't
(like "." directories), but I think there should be some paths that the
decker doesn't see automatically, and should make Perception checks for.

John IV <John.Moeller@*.cc.utah.edu>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Sometimes after an electrical storm I see in 5 dimensions. Why are the
sixty of you looking at me like that?"

--Cornfed, from _Duckman_
Message no. 9
From: John IV <John.Moeller@*.CC.UTAH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Matrix (long but worth looking at :)
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 12:19:23 -0600
On Tue, 25 Jul 1995, Gurth wrote:

> ...make it all a lot easier because I can have a much better sense of where
> everything is, compared to those irritating things like "Sensor Range." If
> you, OTOH, like those ranges, be my guest and keep using them.

I know your frustration. I'm curious; do you have whinig players like
me? It kind of sounds like you do.

> I thought I didn't have to explain anymore that you can only run as many
> programs as your Active memory allows... Maybe I should put that in anyway :)

Ok, Ok. But I always had a problem with that because the rules also say
that you run your programs in the node. So why should it be limited by
your own memory?

> I think the _procedure_ should be the same -- it makes no sense at all to me
> why Matrix combat is to _totally_ different from both physical and astral
> combat as to warrant what is in fact a whole new combat system.

Good point. It does make the game needlessly complex when the combat
system is different at every turn.

BTW, could somebody boil down astral combat for me (by private e-mail if
you wish)? I know, I'm an idiot if I haven't figured it out by now, but
it's always confused me.

John IV <John.Moeller@*.cc.utah.edu>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Sometimes after an electrical storm I see in 5 dimensions. Why are the
sixty of you looking at me like that?"

--Cornfed, from _Duckman_
Message no. 10
From: Nika Nikolic <MNik@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Matrix (long but worth looking at :)
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:26:49 -0400
In a message dated 95-07-25 14:39:54 EDT, you write:

>On Tue, 25 Jul 1995, Mika Nikolic wrote:
>
>> but the way the matrix is made is it has no "walls", there are very few
>> retrictions on the actions done in the matrix. i agree with the hidden
>> directory/files view but then the person should look for that, since even
>> nowadays there are ways to see hidden files.
>
>Right. The decker does see things that the average wage-slave doesn't
>(like "." directories), but I think there should be some paths that the
>decker doesn't see automatically, and should make Perception checks for.
>
>


your right that was my point also.
Message no. 11
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Matrix (long but worth looking at :)
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 23:03:16 +0200
>In Matrix combat, you're running a program and saying "See that IC? Now go
>do your job." The attack program is NOT an extension of yourself; it's an
>independent factor, and the way it attacks IC (and the way IC attacks your
>persona, which isn't you either) is only metaphorically "combat." It's
>much more a matter of decryption, memory reallocation, address redirection
>and data-traffic scrambling, and it's not something a meat entity could do
>within 3 seconds. Hence, Matrix combat is much more automatic, and the
>decker's skill makes a difference only in how quickly he can execute his
>programs, and whether he can modify their interfaces to match IC
>situationally. He doesn't do "the real work," his programs do.

If you look at the rules I posted, you'll notice that you rol the
_utility's_ rating, not some or another skill. So any geek with an Attack-10
can kill IC, even if (s)he doesn't know how anything works at all.

>Because Matrix combat is automated data manipulation, and the other two
>forms of combat aren't, it makes sense to me that Matrix combat looks
>totally different.

But I still don't think that justifies the entirely different way of damage
resolution -- that only confuses matters IMO. Why would every other kind of
combat you can think of in SR do damage by every 2 successes = +1 Damage
Level, while matrix combat does every success = 1 Light Wound?

Just use what you're comfortable with is my suggestion...


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
En ik zeg je weer niet wat ik nu denk dat ik je eigenlijk zeggen wil...
GC3.0: GAT/! dpu s:- !a>? C+(++) U P L E? W(++) N K- w+ O V? PS+ PE Y PGP-
t(+) 5 X R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G++ e h! !r(--) y? Unofficial Shadowrun
Guru :)
Message no. 12
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Matrix (long but worth looking at :)
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 23:03:47 +0200
>BTW, could somebody boil down astral combat for me (by private e-mail if
>you wish)? I know, I'm an idiot if I haven't figured it out by now, but
>it's always confused me.

Very simple: it's just melee combat. You have the option of using your
Sorcery skill in place of Unarmed Combat, but otherwise you use the normal
melee combat rules.


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
En ik zeg je weer niet wat ik nu denk dat ik je eigenlijk zeggen wil...
GC3.0: GAT/! dpu s:- !a>? C+(++) U P L E? W(++) N K- w+ O V? PS+ PE Y PGP-
t(+) 5 X R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G++ e h! !r(--) y? Unofficial Shadowrun
Guru :)
Message no. 13
From: Stephanos Piperoglou <sneakabout@**********.HOL.GR>
Subject: Re: Matrix (long but worth looking at :)
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 00:30:52 +0300
On Tue, 25 Jul 1995, Gurth wrote:

> I thought I didn't have to explain anymore that you can only run as many
> programs as your Active memory allows... Maybe I should put that in anyway :)

You don't run your program on your deck. You can run as many programs on
your deck as you want, but it won't get you anywhere... the whole idea is
getting the programs to run on the node.

Anyway, I'm writing a complete follow-up to your post, but bear with me,
it's a couple of pages long ;-) so it'll take a while to get there.
_________________________ ______________________________
______/ Stephanos J. Piperoglou \____/ sneakabout@**********.hol.gr \______
Aspiring Linux hacker, computer nut, RP gamemaster, sci-fi fan, High School
student, amateur writer, forensics champion, A-level candidate, math adept,
science geek, rave fan, people person, pleasantly plump, or in other words:
GCS/S/M/L/PA d- s++:++ a16 C++++ UL++>++++ P+ L+++>++++ E- W++ N+ K w--- O-
M+ !V PS+ PE++ Y+ PGP++ t+ 5++ X+ R+++ tv b++ DI? D+ G++ e->++++ h! r y?

...QED
Message no. 14
From: "Lindblom Fredrik, Training" <fredrik.lindblom@*******.TELIA.SE>
Subject: Re: Matrix (long but worth looking at :)
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 11:28:00 PDT
> So any geek with an Attack-10
>can kill IC, even if (s)he doesn't know how anything works at all.

But hey! Cool! That means me and You and all the other geeks in the world!
Wow! Unbelieveable what hidden abilities we have! :) :)

Just gotta get hold of the software, then. :) :)


MxM
Message no. 15
From: "Stephen M. Bugge" <bugge@********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Matrix (long but worth looking at :)
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 11:10:05 -0700
*-------------------------------------------*
|Stephen M. Bugge|<bugge@********.edu> |
|President, |<buug@***.com> |
|College GOP @ SU|<75764.240@**********.com>|
*-------------------------------------------*


On Thu, 27 Jul 1995, Lindblom Fredrik, Training wrote:

> > So any geek with an Attack-10
> >can kill IC, even if (s)he doesn't know how anything works at all.
>
> But hey! Cool! That means me and You and all the other geeks in the world!
> Wow! Unbelieveable what hidden abilities we have! :) :)
>
> Just gotta get hold of the software, then. :) :)
>
>
> MxM

If you find the software tell me I need to Fix my Bank Account, and my
grades, and my driving record, and my........
Message no. 16
From: Stephanos Piperoglou <sneakabout@**********.HOL.GR>
Subject: Re: Matrix (long but worth looking at :)
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 22:12:53 +0200
On Thu, 27 Jul 1995, Stephanos Piperoglou wrote:

> Anyway, I'm writing a complete follow-up to your post, but bear with me,
> it's a couple of pages long ;-) so it'll take a while to get there.

The post has gotten so long it's turned into a counter-proposal! I'll be
setting the lisy to NOMAIL for a couple of days because I don't have a
hard disk (long story) but expect Steve's own, twisted decking rules at
about one week from now.
_________________________ ______________________________
______/ Stephanos J. Piperoglou \____/ sneakabout@**********.hol.gr \______
Aspiring Linux hacker, computer nut, RP gamemaster, sci-fi fan, High School
student, amateur writer, forensics champion, A-level candidate, math adept,
science geek, rave fan, people person, pleasantly plump, or in other words:
GCS/S/M/L/PA d- s++:++ a16 C++++ UL++>++++ P+ L+++>++++ E- W++ N+ K w--- O-
M+ !V PS+ PE++ Y+ PGP++ t+ 5++ X+ R+++ tv b++ DI? D+ G++ e->++++ h! r y?

...QED
Message no. 17
From: David Herr <dherr@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Matrix (long but worth looking at :)
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 14:50:58 EDT
At risk of getting thwaped and flamed for bringing up an old subject and one that caused
much controversy. I must throw in my two cents. I love gurths rules. I have long hated
the matrix rules as writen in VR and SRII. In fact I am thinking of taking them even
further. In matrix combet you would do an attack roll based on your real world combat
skill of the appropriate type (I.E. firearms if your attack program looks like a gun or
armed combat for a sword) modified by one half your "decking" skill. Then you
would use your programs rating to determine "damage." This simulates that you
have a certain skill at wielding your programs as weapons in the matrix and as they apear
in the real world. It would also simulate the data manipulation that is a resault of the
program, the better the program (higher the rating) the better it destroys data.
Oh well just remember that this is just my two cents. donning asbestos suit and
grabing shield +200 against flying carps.
/-----------------------------------------------/
/Sam Herr Geek Code V2.0 soon to be 3.0 /
/ GU d- H+ s+:+ !g p? au- a-- w++ v+(---) C++++(++) /
/ UL P? L !3 N+ E? K- W--M-- !V -po+ Y+ t+ 5--j- R++/
/ G+++(++) tv+ b+++ D++ B--- e u- h! f+ r-- n---- y? /
/http://www.together.net/~dherr/earthdawn.html /
/-----------------------------------------------/
Message no. 18
From: David Herr <dherr@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Matrix (long but worth looking at :)
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 13:56:02 EDT
On Wed, 2 Aug 1995 03:38:33 +0200 (MET DST) Sascha wrote:

>Sam Herr wrote:
>> In fact I am thinking of taking
>> them even further. In matrix combet you would do an attack roll based on
>> your real world combat skill of the appropriate type (I.E. firearms if your
>> attack program looks like a gun or armed combat for a sword) modified by
>> one half your "decking" skill.
>But that's not right as far as I understand the Matrix. Maybe one could use
>the skill "decking" as basis-skill and concentrations like "attack
Prgs" and
>"Mask Prgs" and specific programms as specializations (like "Fuchi
Attack-6"),
>but combat in the matrix is _not_ the aequivalent (sp????) of physical combat.
>It's kind of a metapher, _looking_ like combat while the decker types in/thinks
>programm code to defeat hostile Programms. Or am I wrong?
>
>> Then you would use your programs rating to determine "damage." This
simulates
>> that you have a certain skill at wielding your programs as weapons in the
>> matrix and as they apear in the real world. It would also simulate the data
>But they are no one-to-one translations of "real-world-actions" (btw ask a
>Decker about his/her "Real World" :-), but just a graphic/sensory image
>of what is happening. Same thing: The Decker is not really _in_ Fuchi's
>computer (if he/she/it dares), but just the sensory part of his/her/its
>persona programs. Like the output you get when using telnet: YOU are not in
>[wherever], but you get the info's from there!
>
Right, thats how it works NOW we are trying to re-write the rules so that its
more like the novels. In the novels it is very much like the "real world." It
is all a very realistic vr-simulation of data. The deckers mind handles the sensory input
of the matrix just as it handles the sensory input of the eyes, nose, mouth, ears, and
body. To the decker he is infact holding a sword. He knows what is realy happening, i.e.
his simulted swing of the sword tells the attack program what specific piece of data to
run on and then the program runns on that piece of data. I very much like your idea of
having a decking base skill with specific concentrations. That may alow more flexablilty
in how a decker works and would more acuratly show that a decker wouldn't be a combat
monster. The decker should have some very low level combat skills (level 1 or 2) to show
that they have simulated training (against predictable computer ruitines) but no
"real world" experiance in combat wit!
h unpredicatble people. This ef
fect can be seen in martial arts training, people who only use the combinations forms and
attacks that they have learned, in the class room have only rating one, two or possibly 3.
were as people who have used them in an outside environment would have a much higher
rating.
8-)
P.S. I to train in martial arts.
/-----------------------------------------------/
/Sam Herr Geek Code V2.0 soon to be 3.0 /
/ GU d- H+ s+:+ !g p? au- a-- w++ v+(---) C++++(++) /
/ UL P? L !3 N+ E? K- W--M-- !V -po+ Y+ t+ 5--j- R++/
/ G+++(++) tv+ b+++ D++ B--- e u- h! f+ r-- n---- y? /
/http://www.together.net/~dherr/earthdawn.html /
/-----------------------------------------------/

Further Reading

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