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Message no. 1
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Max Initiative (was Re: Car Wars)
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 16:48:52 EST
On Sun, 16 Feb 1997 10:44:21 -0000 Tim Coxon <Tim.Ntoo@**********.COM>
writes:
>> <snip Car Wars>
>> >last thing What is the maximum theoreticle initive possible (not
>> >munckinising just trying to put together a good moving rule)
>>
>> I've heard it's something like 22 + 5D6 or thereabouts...I once had
>an
>> NPC with 18 + 8D6, but that required cheating:) (but it scared the
>crap
>> out the player with the highest initiative at the time...)
>>
>> --
>> -Canthros
>Okay I hate to do this but last night I got bored so I tired Maxing
>out a
>character, I ended up with a guy that could have a permanate intitive
>of
>(assume all six's are rolled) of 54 and a few times of 61 :)
>However I just thought that with that new edge from the companion (the
>one
>where you reroll the six's) theorectically but improbably could be
>infinate
>(unless you use my "loaded dice")

Well, first you've overlooked the fact that the "Adrenaline Surge" Edge
only provides an open-ended initiative die for someone whoe Initiative is
not enhanced in any other way, whether it's magickal or
technological...so, Physads, Street Sammies, Shapeshifters, and quite a
few other characters wouln't get anything at all out of this edge
(riggers and deckers I would allow, but only when they aren't
rigging/decking and don't have any other initiative enhancements) What
are "loaded dice"?


<snipping Car Wars, again (I don't have any experience with vehicle
combat in SR, let alone in anything else:) >

--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 2
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Max Initiative (was Re: Car Wars)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 01:13:43 -0500
At 04:48 PM 2/16/97 EST, L Canthros wrote these timeless words:
>rigging/decking and don't have any other initiative enhancements) What
>are "loaded dice"?
>
Weighted dice that will roll certain numbers almost every time... Usulayy
tehse are D6's designed to roll 6's...:)

>
><snipping Car Wars, again (I don't have any experience with vehicle
>combat in SR, let alone in anything else:) >
>
The only real vehicle combat experience I have, is with the ehicles I drive
in RL...:(:(

Bull:)
--
Now the Fearless Leader of the New Star Wars Mailing List!

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****.com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"I finally find a guy I like, and you got to go and kill him!"
-Kom, "Outlanders"
Message no. 3
From: Eric Hall <esh7695@******.SDSMT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Max Initiative (was RE:Car Wars)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 14:15:14 +0000
Gurth <gurth@******.NL> said...
> Tim Coxon said on 20:04/15 Feb 97...
> > last thing What is the maximum theoreticle initive possible (not
> > munckinising just trying to put together a good moving rule)
>
> Let's see, if we take the Speed Samurai and replace his wired refs by
> move-by-wire 4, a synaptic accelerator 1, and a reaction enhancer 6, he
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> gets an initiative of 26+6D6. The cost would be horrific in both nuyen and
> Essence, but it can be done.

You can't put a reaction enhancer with move-by wires
(Cybertechnology, p.38). I did figure it out though, taking into
account some stuff I think people have been missing.

</munchikin on>
The maximum theoretical initiative is the character's natural
reaction + 23+7d6. That means a character with natural Quickness and
Intelligence has a reaction of 29 +7d6.

How to get it:
Move-by-wire 4 (Q+4, R+8, Init +4d6)
Synaptic Accelerator 1 (Init +1d6)
Cerebral Boost 2 (I+2)
Muscle Augmentation 4 (Bioware) (Q+4)
Encephelon 3 (I+2)
Enhanced Articulation (R+1)
Increase Cybered Quickness +4 (Q+4)
Increase Cybered Intelligence +4 (I+4)
Increase Cybered Reaction +4 (R+4)
Dose of Kamikaze (Q+1, Init +1d6)
--------------------------------------------------------------
Total: (Q+13, I+8, R+13, Init +6d6)
(R+ ((13+8)/2) = R + 10)
This gives a total bonus of 23 to reaction and an additional 6d6 to
Initiative. The base essence cost is 7.95. The Body Index cost is
4.9. The total cost is 3,630,050Y plus whatever it costs to convince
a mage to cast three increase attribute spells on you.

</munchkin off>

Well, now I have to go create this as an NPC to torment my players
:-).

Rone-the-malicious-street-sam-turned-GM
----------------------------------------------
Eric Hall esh7695@******.sdsmt.edu
The Razor's Edge, Gear For Shadowrunners:
http://www.mcs.sdsmt.edu/~ehall/shadowrun/razor.html
Message no. 4
From: mike.paff@*****.COM
Subject: Re: Max Initiative (was RE:Car Wars)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 14:41:28 -0800
> From: Eric Hall <esh7695@******.SDSMT.EDU>
>
> </munchikin on>
> The maximum theoretical initiative is the character's natural
> reaction + 23+7d6. That means a character with natural Quickness and
> Intelligence has a reaction of 29 +7d6.
>
> How to get it:
[snip]
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> Total: (Q+13, I+8, R+13, Init +6d6)
> (R+ ((13+8)/2) = R + 10)
> This gives a total bonus of 23 to reaction and an additional 6d6 to

23.5 actually - an elf with Q 7 and I 6 would then end up with a
reaction of 30

> Initiative. The base essence cost is 7.95. The Body Index cost is
> 4.9. The total cost is 3,630,050Y plus whatever it costs to convince
> a mage to cast three increase attribute spells on you.
>
That's the real trick. The TNs for casting these spells would be
real killers. For a maxxed out elf, the Incr Int would have a TN of 20
and the Incr Quick would have a TN of 32! Then the Incr Reac would only
have a TN of 52!!
Also, I'm not certain if the Incr Cybered attribute spells go up to +4,
I think they may be limited to +3, which would limit the final reaction
to 28.

> </munchkin off>
Message no. 5
From: Rookie <rookie@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Max Initiative (was RE:Car Wars)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 15:48:52 -0700
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mike.paff@*****.COM wrote:
> >
> > </munchikin on>
> > The maximum theoretical initiative is the character's natural
> > reaction + 23+7d6. That means a character with natural Quickness and
> > Intelligence has a reaction of 29 +7d6.
> > </munchkin off>

Need not to mention that well he will be easier than hell to kill if the
spells are connected to the person via astral Space (Spell Locks) Slam a
nice Physical spell (Boom he's dead) Not to mention do't take him
anyware social he'll stick out real bad. Don't ever think about him
getting a woman. Unless she likes a person w/ no personality and loves
cold steal. Plus he himself with that negitive essence is active in
astral space because of Cybermancy. :)

-Rookie
--
On the third day of the second month,
In the year of two thousand and one,
there will be war. There will be death.
THERE WILL BE ARMAGEDDON.
-{Nostradamos}-
rookie@*******.com
5546@**.ev.maricopa.edu
http://www.netzone.com/~rookie


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<DT>mike.paff@*****.COM wrote:<BR>
&gt; &gt;<BR>
&gt; &gt; &lt;/munchikin on&gt;<BR>
&gt; &gt; The maximum theoretical initiative is the character's natural<BR>
&gt; &gt; reaction + 23+7d6. That means a character with natural Quickness
and<BR>
&gt; &gt; Intelligence has a reaction of 29 +7d6.<BR>
&gt; &gt; &lt;/munchkin off&gt;<BR>
<BR></DT>

<DT>Need not to mention that well he will be easier than hell to kill if
the spells are connected to the person via astral Space (Spell Locks) Slam
a nice Physical spell (Boom he's dead) Not to mention do't take him anyware
social he'll stick out real bad. Don't ever think about him getting a woman.
Unless she likes a person w/ no personality and loves cold steal. Plus
he himself with that negitive essence is active in astral space because
of Cybermancy. :)</DT>

<DT>&nbsp;</DT>

<DT>-Rookie<BR>
--&nbsp;<BR>
On the third day of the second month,<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp; In the year of two thousand and one,<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp; there will be war. There will be death.<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp; THERE WILL BE ARMAGEDDON.<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
-{Nostradamos}-<BR>
&nbsp;rookie@*******.com<BR>
&nbsp;5546@**.ev.maricopa.edu<BR>
&nbsp;http://www.netzone.com/~rookie<BR>;
&nbsp;</DT>

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Message no. 6
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Max Initiative (was Re: Car Wars)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 21:02:28 EST
On Mon, 17 Feb 1997 14:15:14 +0000 Eric Hall <esh7695@******.SDSMT.EDU>
writes:
<snip>

></munchikin on>
>The maximum theoretical initiative is the character's natural
>reaction + 23+7d6. That means a character with natural Quickness and
>Intelligence has a reaction of 29 +7d6.
<snip>
I'm saving this for later:)



>This gives a total bonus of 23 to reaction and an additional 6d6 to
>Initiative. The base essence cost is 7.95. The Body Index cost is
>4.9. The total cost is 3,630,050Y plus whatever it costs to convince
>a mage to cast three increase attribute spells on you.

If you've got someone willing to invest that much money into someone, I'd
think that they could maybe also invest in cultured bio and delta grade
cyber...that should reduce Essence cost to about 3.8...The only bad news
is that he won't be moving that fast for very long...very many doses of
Kamikaze will burn out his cyber real quick.


>
></munchkin off>
>
>Well, now I have to go create this as an NPC to torment my players
>:-).
>

If they're smart, they'll just blast the crap out of this guy when they
get half a chance...even with nine actions, a large enough team should be
able to survive at least one combat turn;)

--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 7
From: Shawn Baumgartner <Breakdown@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Max Initiative (was Re: Car Wars)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 21:10:11 -0500
THANK GOD FOR HYPER ROUNDS! Ol' billy badass with the megamods'll still
be down and out with a couple of DMSO/Hyper rounds. Or a cheap little
mindbender if'n y'all's a spellworm!

Say what you will, how you will, when you will. Free speech is a right, not a privelege.
Message no. 8
From: Mark McKenna <mmckenn@*****.BGSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Max Initiative (was Re: Car Wars)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 21:19:25 -0500
On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Shawn Baumgartner wrote:

> THANK GOD FOR HYPER ROUNDS! Ol' billy badass with the megamods'll still
> be down and out with a couple of DMSO/Hyper rounds. Or a cheap little
> mindbender if'n y'all's a spellworm!
>
> Say what you will, how you will, when you will. Free speech is a right, not a
privelege.
>
Give gamma-s a good try also, 10D stun is hard to pass up even though you
that modded out, but if the thing had that much cyber and bio, wouldn't
the people involoved into building such a creature, ie, Tinner had a habit
of doing this several times, put anti-toxin filters and such, in the
Liver, throat, skin etc, just about anywhere you could put a toxin
extractor. I'd say the spell would work better, but that's my opinion
McKenna
Message no. 9
From: Shawn Baumgartner <Breakdown@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Max Initiative (was Re: Car Wars)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 21:25:45 -0500
The Gamma's a good call, but imagine if your Squirt gets spashed in a
firefight: Packing Hyper, you're screwed, packing Gamma, EVERYBODY'S
screwed! I agree that the mana's the way to go, since it don't care
about the cyber (Of course if Modboy's portin' that much cyber, he's
probably a 'Zombie, which means the wizboy's gonna have to sweat to get
through to him; but then how many C-zomies are there really? <grin>)

Say what you will, how you will, when you will. Free speech is a right, not a privelege.
Message no. 10
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: Max Initiative (was Re: Car Wars)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 03:24:50 +0000
> From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
> Subject: Re: Max Initiative (was Re: Car Wars)
> >rigging/decking and don't have any other initiative enhancements) What
> >are "loaded dice"?
> >
> Weighted dice that will roll certain numbers almost every time... Usulayy
> tehse are D6's designed to roll 6's...:)

Not that you'd know from personal experience, right? <BG>


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
Message no. 11
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Max Initiative (was Re: Car Wars)
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 16:51:05 -0500
At 03:24 AM 2/17/97 +0000, Droopy wrote these timeless words:
>> From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
>> Subject: Re: Max Initiative (was Re: Car Wars)
>> >rigging/decking and don't have any other initiative enhancements) What
>> >are "loaded dice"?
>> >
>> Weighted dice that will roll certain numbers almost every time... Usulayy
>> tehse are D6's designed to roll 6's...:)
>
>Not that you'd know from personal experience, right? <BG>
>
Not I, Droopy...

I'm reknown for bad dice rolling at critical times (Not so much as
Shadowrun, but definately in the various Warhammer games, where a single
die can be especially critical!).

Although, I mych better than my GM, Tinner... He rolls a million times
worse than me...

Rightm Bubba?
<VBEG>

Bull
--
Now the Fearless Leader of the New Star Wars Mailing List!

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****.com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"I finally find a guy I like, and you got to go and kill him!"
-Kom, "Outlanders"

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