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Message no. 1
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: MBTs (was Re: SR4 comments)
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 19:09:50 +0200
According to Jan Jaap van Poelgeest, on 09-04-2005 18:17 the word on the
street was...

> [snip Gurth's voice of reason&reality]

Don't insult me -- I live in a world all of my own ;)

> I agree with what you say in that it'd be an
> unconventional thing to equip a contemporary tank
> with. However I'm assuming that there aren't many big
> standing armies in the 6th world

It depends on the kinds of warfare you expect to find in the SR world, I
think. The game designers apparently see it as a world where MBTs are
still useful -- and face it, if warfare is similar to the majority of
wars fought today, then MBTs will still be useful (ask peacekeeping
troops in the former Yugoslavia, for example).

> As Max Noel more-or-less suggested, reactive
> armour (perhaps triggerable upon demand) might be
> sufficient protection/deterrance against such assaults
> anyway.

During the Vietnam War, some American AFV crews strapped Claymore mines
to the sides of their vehicles for this reason. Or at least, that's what
it says in the excellent book "Vietnam Tracks" by Simon Dunstan -- I've
never seen a single photograph to support this claim, however, and I
have certainly looked at my share of photos of US vehicles in Vietnam :)

> Perhaps the gimmicks I have in mind would be more
> appropriate for riot control type vehicles, not MBTs
> built for open warfare.

I think so. A riot-control vehicle will find more use for gas
dispensers, disorientating strobe lights, etc. than an MBT will, IMHO.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Kemen (keemde, h gekeemd): het spelen van computerspelletjes
-> Possibly NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Site: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 2
From: ShadowRN@********.demon.co.uk (Paul J. Adam)
Subject: MBTs (was Re: SR4 comments)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 21:33:32 +0100
In article <42580C5E.7010807@******.nl>, Gurth <gurth@******.nl> writes
>It depends on the kinds of warfare you expect to find in the SR world,
>I think. The game designers apparently see it as a world where MBTs are
>still useful -- and face it, if warfare is similar to the majority of
>wars fought today, then MBTs will still be useful (ask peacekeeping
>troops in the former Yugoslavia, for example).

As one Leopard commander said, when asked why he'd fired fifty-two
rounds of 105mm ammunition during one 'peace enforcement' task -
"because I didn't have fifty-three!"

>During the Vietnam War, some American AFV crews strapped Claymore mines
>to the sides of their vehicles for this reason. Or at least, that's
>what it says in the excellent book "Vietnam Tracks" by Simon Dunstan --
>I've never seen a single photograph to support this claim, however, and
>I have certainly looked at my share of photos of US vehicles in Vietnam :)

Not seen evidence of vehicles with Claymores attached, but heard several
participants describe how M113 ACAVs would barely be halted before two
of the crew would be out, uncoiling razor wire and rigging Claymores to
prevent close approaches with satchel charges and other nastiness.

>I think so. A riot-control vehicle will find more use for gas
>dispensers, disorientating strobe lights, etc. than an MBT will, IMHO.

Searchlights and loudhailers are useful too.


--
Paul J. Adam
Message no. 3
From: hangfire@*****.com (Tim)
Subject: MBTs (was Re: SR4 comments)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 22:44:48 +0100
Tanks have a variety of measures for use against infantry/crowds from using
their main guns (M494 105 MM APERS-T Flechette rounds (Think worlds biggest
shotgun shells and that's pretty much it)) to using the .50 CAL M2, 2x 7.62
M240 (Commanders weapons on the M1 A1 and Coaxial weapon and loader's
weapon) your typical MBT is more than ready to handle close up fighting as
it is. Also please remember that you never ever send a tank in by itself
it's always in a combined arms operation with support from helicopters,
mechanized infantry and etc etc.
Message no. 4
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: MBTs (was Re: SR4 comments)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:03:47 +0200
According to Tim, on 09-04-2005 23:44 the word on the street was...

> Tanks have a variety of measures for use against infantry/crowds from using
> their main guns (M494 105 MM APERS-T Flechette rounds (Think worlds biggest
> shotgun shells and that's pretty much it)) to using the .50 CAL M2, 2x 7.62
> M240 (Commanders weapons on the M1 A1 and Coaxial weapon and loader's
> weapon) your typical MBT is more than ready to handle close up fighting as
> it is.

All of these are only useful if your targets are not right up against
the tank. If you're forced to drop hand grenades over the side,
something has gone wrong...

> Also please remember that you never ever send a tank in by itself
> it's always in a combined arms operation with support from helicopters,
> mechanized infantry and etc etc.

As I also pointed out at the beginning of this thread :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Kemen (keemde, h gekeemd): het spelen van computerspelletjes
-> Possibly NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Site: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 5
From: shane@**************.net (Shane Mclean)
Subject: MBTs (was Re: SR4 comments)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:05:12 +0100
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
> All of these are only useful if your targets are not right up against
> the tank. If you're forced to drop hand grenades over the side,
> something has gone wrong...

True, but don't underestimate the usefullness of a well timed neutral turn.
Grind, grind, grind.


Shane

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