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Message no. 1
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Megas
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 15:32:02 -0700 (PDT)
Guys, I have a terminology question.

I've heard huge/mega corps referred to as both
zaibatsus and keiretsus (sp?). One is used currently,
one I've only seen used in Shadowrun. I just can't
remember which is which. I SUSPECT zaibatsu is the SR
term, but I'm not sure.

Can someone help?

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

Can you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

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Message no. 2
From: Lady Jestyr jestyr@*********.html.com
Subject: Megas
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 08:36:12 +1000
>Guys, I have a terminology question.
>
>I've heard huge/mega corps referred to as both
>zaibatsus and keiretsus (sp?). One is used currently,
>one I've only seen used in Shadowrun. I just can't
>remember which is which. I SUSPECT zaibatsu is the SR
>term, but I'm not sure.

Zaibatsu is the one I've heard in SR.

Hey, can anyone provide translations for zaibatsu/keiretsu?

Lady Jestyr
~ Hell hath no fury like a geek with a whippersnipper ~

* jestyr@*****.com | URL: http://staff.dumpshock.com/jestyr *
Message no. 3
From: Matthew Bond mgb@*****.swinternet.co.uk
Subject: Megas
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 00:22:53 +0100
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lady Jestyr" <jestyr@*********.html.com>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 11:36 PM
Subject: Re: Megas


>
> >Guys, I have a terminology question.
> >
> >I've heard huge/mega corps referred to as both
> >zaibatsus and keiretsus (sp?). One is used currently,
> >one I've only seen used in Shadowrun. I just can't
> >remember which is which. I SUSPECT zaibatsu is the SR
> >term, but I'm not sure.
>
> Zaibatsu is the one I've heard in SR.
>
> Hey, can anyone provide translations for zaibatsu/keiretsu?
>

Well, I'm just reading the Tom Clancy novel "Debt of Honour", and
Zaibatsu is used in that to refer to the heads of the Japanese
Corporations, so I would suspect that it is a real Japanese word.

Matt
Message no. 4
From: Dan Grabon djmoose@******.kornet.net
Subject: Megas
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:53:36 +0900
On 10/19/00 7:32 AM, Rand Ratinac at docwagon101@*****.com wrote:

> I've heard huge/mega corps referred to as both
> zaibatsus and keiretsus (sp?). One is used currently,
> one I've only seen used in Shadowrun. I just can't
> remember which is which. I SUSPECT zaibatsu is the SR
> term, but I'm not sure.

>From what I remember, the huge Japanese conglomerates used to be known as
zaibatsu, but after it became apparent that they were too powerful and
influential, they were reformed (somewhat) and renamed keiretsu, which lacks
the negative, power-hungry connotations of zaibatsu. Think the switch
happened in the 70's or 80's.

In SR terms, with the rise of the megacorps it makes sense to bring the old
term back.

Hope my info is correct there... it's been a few years since I took that
course, and it wasn't very engaging to begin with :)

-moose

---
Dan "Moose" Grabon - djmoose@******.kornet.net
Don't do something, just sit there!
Message no. 5
From: Augustus shadowrun@********.net
Subject: Megas
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 18:17:53 -0700
----- Original Message -----
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*********.html.com>

> Hey, can anyone provide translations for zaibatsu/keiretsu?

I've never seen/heard the term keiretsu used before...

But... Zaibatsu is to refer to a corporation large enough to control the
economy around it.

Augustus
Message no. 6
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Megas
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:47:24 -0700 (PDT)
> > Hey, can anyone provide translations for
zaibatsu/keiretsu?
>
> I've never seen/heard the term keiretsu used
before...
> Augustus

Just FYI...

I've heard keiretsu(sp?) used twice. 1. In the
movie/book Rising Sun. 2. By my mother, who's a high
school economics teacher and knows a HELL of a lot of stuff.

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

Can you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

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Message no. 7
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Megas
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 11:26:47 +0200
According to Rand Ratinac, at 15:32 on 18 Oct 00, the word on the street
was...

> I've heard huge/mega corps referred to as both
> zaibatsus and keiretsus (sp?). One is used currently,
> one I've only seen used in Shadowrun. I just can't
> remember which is which. I SUSPECT zaibatsu is the SR
> term, but I'm not sure.

I do know that "zaibatsu" was used by Gibson in Neuromancer (or one of the
sequels, I don't remember that closely) and I do believe it also appears
in a few SR books, but I couldn't tell you which one(s). No idea about the
other one, though.

--
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Message no. 8
From: DV8 dv8@***.nl
Subject: Megas
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 11:39:51 +0200
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
> > I've heard huge/mega corps referred to as both
> > zaibatsus and keiretsus (sp?). One is used currently,
> > one I've only seen used in Shadowrun. I just can't
> > remember which is which. I SUSPECT zaibatsu is the SR
> > term, but I'm not sure.
> I do know that "zaibatsu" was used by Gibson in Neuromancer (or one of the
> sequels, I don't remember that closely) and I do believe it also appears
> in a few SR books, but I couldn't tell you which one(s). No idea about the
> other one, though.

Keiretzu is the Japanese term for a congolomrate of companies that come
together to stand stronger against another keiretzu. Zaibatzu I'm not so
sure of. I believe it's a vertical market chain group.

Regards,

DV8

"Abashed the Devil stood,...and felt how awful Goodness is,..."
- John Milton, Paradise Lost
Message no. 9
From: Paul Collins paulcollins@*******.com
Subject: Megas
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 23:28:21 +1000
>From memory, a Zaibatsu was a group of company's that basically worked with
each other exclusively. For example, the mining company or importer got the
raw materiels, sold to a processing company, sold their goods to a factory,
then used a distribitor to a retail outlet or an exporter. And all use the
same bank.
All the individual company's may or may not have been owned by the central
company (Usually the bank I think). They where all broken up by the
Americans after WW2 (Supposedly), and they don't exist anymore. (Yeah,
right)
Combine this sort of business with the job for life policy, and a zaibatsu
could control a persons whole life.

Annachie

------------------------------------------------

-----In the worlds before Monkey, primal chaos reigned. Heaven sought
order. But the phoenix can fly only when it's feathers are grown. The four
worlds formed again and yet again, as endless aeons wheeled and passed.
Time and the pure essances of Heaven and the moisture of Earth, the powers
of the sun and the moon all worked upon a certain rock, old as creation.
And it became magically fertile. The first egg was named "Thought".
Tathagata Budha, the Father Budha, said "With our thoughts, we make the
world".
Elemental forces caused the egg to hatch. From it came a stone monkey.
The nature of monkey was irrepressible!

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These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

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