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Message no. 1
From: Sebastian Wiers <seb@***.RIPCO.COM>
Subject: Re: Melee Idea
Date: Sat, 6 May 1995 15:35:05 -0500
On the topic of fast combatants in melee;
I play an elven Samurai with a reaction of 16 (wire 3, high stats, bioware).
That was as a starting caracter, its gone down to 14 sice he got sick and had
to take drugs and shut off the suprathyriod. I Imediately raised these "well,
if i'm fast, don't I get a combat bonus" questions, and the answer was a big
no. But, bieng fast is an advantage: you should always have supperior
position, if a least by walking around to somenes backside before they get an
action. And you can hold your action and strike at the most inconvinincing
time.
A sitiution did arise that peaved me, however. We wre aproached by a bunch
of thugs. I hit him, and he got the "friends in melee" advantage; even though
I went on 34, and none of his friends could do anything until 7.
Message no. 2
From: Brett Ryan Brown <calvinoi@*******.SCRI.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Melee Idea
Date: Sat, 6 May 1995 18:16:02 EDT
> A sitiution did arise that peaved me, however. We wre aproached by a bunch
> of thugs. I hit him, and he got the "friends in melee" advantage; even
though
> I went on 34, and none of his friends could do anything until 7.

I just thought about how stupid (and unrealistic) that is. Maybe the
"friends in melee" should only apply after the friends have gotten into
the fight. In the above example, the guy's friends would've have been
standing around picking their noses while you were in action. I really
don't think that it's fair that the guy should have gotten advantages for
them. Perhaps a(nother) new rule? (Or is this already in the book, and
people are going to shout at my blatant ignorance?)

--
_/_/_/_/ _ calvinoi@*******.scri.fsu.edu
_/ | | _ _
_/ __ _ | | __ __ (_) _ _ ___ (_) Fight the War.
_/ / _` | | | \ V / | | | ' \ / _ \ | | Fuck the Norm.
_/_/_/_/ \__,_| |_| \_/ |_| |_||_\ \___/ |_| Don't Conform.
================================================ --------------
Message no. 3
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Melee Idea
Date: Sat, 6 May 1995 21:28:00 -0400
I've stayed out of this, but...

>>>>> "Sebastian" == Sebastian Wiers <seb@***.RIPCO.COM>
writes:

Sebastian> I play an elven Samurai with a reaction of 16 (wire 3, high
Sebastian> stats, bioware).

Um, Reaction/Initiative bonuses from different boosts do not combine. You
only get the best one, and that's your Wired-3.

Sebastian> That was as a starting caracter, its gone down to 14 sice he got
Sebastian> sick and had to take drugs and shut off the suprathyriod. I
Sebastian> Imediately raised these "well, if i'm fast, don't I get a combat
Sebastian> bonus" questions, and the answer was a big no.

The question is "do you get an *extra* combat bonus" and the answer is
still "no."

Sebastian> But, bieng fast is an advantage: you should always have
Sebastian> supperior position,

No, you don't. Good tactics will beat speed every time. And that's not even
beginning to touch on the psychology of warfare and combat; all the speed
in the world will do you no good if I've psyched you out with Kujikiri
techniques, for example.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> | Ingredients of Happy Fun Ball include an
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox | unknown glowing substance which fell to
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! | Earth, presumably from outer space.
Message no. 4
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Melee Idea
Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 11:05:24 +0200
>I just thought about how stupid (and unrealistic) that is. Maybe the
>"friends in melee" should only apply after the friends have gotten into
>the fight.

I've never really used that rule, mostly because IMO it's pretty hard to
define who is involved in a melee with whom and who isn't, when there's a
bunch of people standing together.


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I'm not into DIY, I'm into YDI.
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
Message no. 5
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Melee Idea
Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 11:05:32 +0200
>Um, Reaction/Initiative bonuses from different boosts do not combine. You
>only get the best one, and that's your Wired-3.

I thought you could combine things like wired reflexes and enhanced
articulation, so you'd have a +5 Reaction and +5+2D6 Initiative. Anyway,
that's the way we always played it (and will continue to do so).


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I'm not into DIY, I'm into YDI.
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
Message no. 6
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Melee Idea
Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 11:08:45 -0400
>>>>> "Gurth" == Gurth <gurth@******.NL> writes:

>> Um, Reaction/Initiative bonuses from different boosts do not combine. You
>> only get the best one, and that's your Wired-3.

Gurth> I thought you could combine things like wired reflexes and enhanced
Gurth> articulation, so you'd have a +5 Reaction and +5+2D6 Initiative.

The ruling from Tom Dowd is that different boosts don't combine; you only
get the best unless the boost specifically says that it does combine with
another boost. Therefore, while you do get the bonus to active skills, you
do not combine the Reaction increases.

Someone want to confirm that with the DLoH answers lists? I have this
nagging feeling that that ruling applies to Initiative but not Reaction.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> | Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain types
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox | of skin.
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! |
Message no. 7
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Melee Idea
Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 16:50:47 BST
> A sitiution did arise that peaved me, however. We wre aproached by a bunch
> of thugs. I hit him, and he got the "friends in melee" advantage; even
though
> I went on 34, and none of his friends could do anything until 7.

Hey, I'm a GM, and where possible, I try to use that rule to ensure PC's
can't cream the opposition immeiately with wolf-pack tactics.

It might not be fair, but we want things to be a challenge.

but you're right, the main advantage of being faster than the other guy
is nbeing able to place yourself to youir advantage, and to hit
him by surprise: You have a hgher reaction for the surprise test.


Mr Rat, since when did only the highest reaction bonus count? For Dice
yet, surely not for stuff like the +6 for wired 3, and +1 for Enhanced
Artic?

Phil (Renegade; who relies on multiple raction boost for 3D+9 ! )
Message no. 8
From: NIGHTFOX <DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Melee Idea
Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 11:10:00 -0700
>Gurth> I thought you could combine things like wired reflexes and enhanced
>Gurth> articulation, so you'd have a +5 Reaction and +5+2D6 Initiative.
>
>Someone want to confirm that with the DLoH answers lists? I have this
>nagging feeling that that ruling applies to Initiative but not Reaction.

the ruling is for that you can't combine initiativer enhancement.
No magic with cyber - but magic WILL enhance natural high inititiative
so you can cast increase init +3 on a cat and give it 5 dice for initiative.

Phys ad abilities don't count as natural.


My favorite speed wise was the elf Caine.

these were the stats - i think - they might too high - but you get the idea

Quickness 12 ?
Int 10 ?
Reaction 19 ?
Initiative 4d6 - thats a definate

Biotech and cyber ware together can be scary



Nightfox
Message no. 9
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Melee Idea
Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 11:04:27 +0200
> >Um, Reaction/Initiative bonuses from different boosts do not combine. You
> >only get the best one, and that's your Wired-3.
>
> I thought you could combine things like wired reflexes and enhanced
> articulation, so you'd have a +5 Reaction and +5+2D6 Initiative. Anyway,
> that's the way we always played it (and will continue to do so).

Rexlex enhancements are not compatible with each other, not reaction
enhancements. So this means that its possible to load up on stuff like
enhanced articulation that give you a +1 on your reaction, but
its impossible to get boosted and wired reflexes working together.

--
"Believe in Angels." -- The Crow

GCS d H s+: !g p1 !au a- w+ v-(?) C++++ UA++S++L+$>++++ L+>+++ E--- N+ W(+)(---)
M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5++ R+++ tv b++ e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(-) y?
Message no. 10
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Melee Idea
Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 11:33:38 +0200
>Mr Rat, since when did only the highest reaction bonus count? For Dice
>yet, surely not for stuff like the +6 for wired 3, and +1 for Enhanced
>Artic?

We play it that way: only the largest dice bonus applies, but otherwise
everything else does (unless you take Wired-1 _and_ Wired-2 for instance
(kinda dumb, really), in which case you get only the best one). Otherwise
the samurai wouldn't have an Initiative of 13+3D6...


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I'm not into DIY, I'm into YDI.
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
Message no. 11
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Melee Idea
Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 13:55:24 +0200
> Someone want to confirm that with the DLoH answers lists? I have this
> nagging feeling that that ruling applies to Initiative but not Reaction.

Yep, this goes only for reflex enhancements (stuff that gives extra dice)
but not reaction enhancements. I'll scann the files for any reference.

--
"Believe in Angels." -- The Crow

GCS d H s+: !g p1 !au a- w+ v-(?) C++++ UA++S++L+$>++++ L+>+++ E--- N+ W(+)(---)
M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5++ R+++ tv b++ e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(-) y?

Further Reading

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