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From:	David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject:	Melee Question
Date:	Fri, 2 Jan 1998 08:27:02 -0700

Message no. 1 :)

I only have one problem with melee combat: if both opponents have
combat pools the characer with the higher initiative is at a
disadvantage, assuming everything is more or less equal. Character A
attacks character B and uses his combat pool. B uses his combat pool
to defend. At the beginning of B's action phase his combat pool
refreshes. B attacks and uses his combat pool. A defends but is out
of combat pool. B thrashes A.

I've fixed this by ruling that combat

From:	Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Melee Question
Date:	Fri, 2 Jan 1998 10:35:50 -0500

Message no. 2 -David
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes.
Art is knowing which ones to keep."
--
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
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Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 10:26:23 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Halley's Comet
In-Reply-To: <199801021511.IAA04774@******.carl.org>; from David Buehrer on
Fri, Jan 02, 1998 at 08:11:04AM -0700
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On Fri, Jan 02, 1998 at 08:11:04AM -0700, David Buehrer wrote:
> Bull wrote:
> /
> / Speaking of which, that brings up a whole interesting idea. In an Awakened
> / world, what sort of "power" would the comet have, real or perceived?
> /
> / The comet seems to have almost a mystical presence in the Real World today,
> / because it only comes around once in a lifetime. And after the whole Halle
> / Bop comet non-sense earlier this year, it makes you wonder how people would
> / respond to the return of the comet.
> /
> / Could make for an interesting "Cult of the Comet" magical group...:]
>
> I could easily see a magician/group using the appearance of a comet,
> a lunar eclipse, a solar eclipse, etc, as a requirement for a ritual
> spell.
>
>

From:	John Dukes <dukes@*******.NET>
Subject:	Re: Melee Question
Date:	Fri, 2 Jan 1998 10:35:36 -0600

Message no. 3 Thanks to losthalo I've been rethinking my views on melee/unarmed
combat and it's brought up a question.

Can an untrained person counter attack?

I can see an untrained person being able to defend themselves.
But I can't see an untrained/inexperienced person actively
counter-attacking.

Thoughts?

-David
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes.
Art is knowing which ones to keep."
--
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 10:35:50 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Melee Question
In-Reply-To: <199801021527.IAA05102@******.carl.org>; from David Buehrer on
Fri, Jan 02, 1998 at 08:27:02AM -0700
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On Fri, Jan 02, 1998 at 08:27:02AM -0700, David Buehrer wrote:
> Thanks to losthalo I've been rethinking my views on melee/unarmed
> combat and it's brought up a question.
>
> Can an untrained person

From:	Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject:	Re: Melee Question
Date:	Sat, 3 Jan 1998 03:54:03 +1100

Message no. 4 Just a reminder that the validity of hypnotic regression is tenuous at
best... it's very easy for the hypnotist to find what he's looking for,
no matter what actually happened (ref: multiple cases involving sexual
abuse which may or may not have actually occurred). As for how much the
brain actually stores... unless you have an eidetic memory, you *don't*
store it all, not where you can get to it, anyway. Whether it exists in
the subconscious or not, I cannot remember (or is that the point?)

--
John Pederson Canthros, the shapeshifter-mage
<<-------------------------------------------------------------->>
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
<<-------------------------------------------------------------->>
lobo1@****.com canthros1@***.com john.e.pederson@***********.edu
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/4864 ICQ UIN 3190186
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 11:42:34 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Bull - in - the - box

On Fri, 2 Jan 1998 02:59:36 -0500 "Steven A. Tinner"
<bluewizard@*****.COM> writes:

<<By now, I'm sure most of you know about the curse of Wendigoism that I
have placed on our good friend Bull. After months of research, Bull has
finally

From:	Stefan <casanova@******.PASSAGEN.SE>
Subject:	Re: Melee Question
Date:	Fri, 2 Jan 1998 20:17:30 +0000

Message no. 5 Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst | The light at the |
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de|end of the tunnel is|
| \___ __/ | | the headlight of an|
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | approaching train. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | -- Skip (?) |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 12:57:39 -0600
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "Carlton B. Davis" <davisc74@***.ACS.UWOSH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bull - in - the - box
In-Reply-To: <00f401bd1754$62fecf40$0b06cecf@*****>
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Dunno if you want a spoiler or not, but I figured I might as well toss it
in. EGM ideas for a BINAB

I know at least one person mentioned the idea of copying Bull... but

From:	Mon goose <landsquid@*******.COM>
Subject:	Re: Melee Question
Date:	Fri, 2 Jan 1998 15:26:23 PST

Message no. 6 On the other hand, I disagree due to inconsistencies in its use.
If you use a KP to get a reroll on a B/R skill, is that KP gone?
It should be if you're using the rule above. Do you only get it
back if the item breaks? How about using a KP for a reroll when
healing a low-essence Sammie? Is that KP gone till the Sammie
gets wounded again? Does it come back after he would have naturally
healed? What about using KP for rerolling a sustained spell that
gets sustained for a long time (via elemental)? Is there any
difference between rerolling successes (which might 'stay' with
the spell),

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: Melee Question
Date:	Sat, 3 Jan 1998 12:46:46 +0100

Message no. 7 --
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
Salsa shark
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 12:46:47 +0100
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Organization: Plastic Warriors
Subject: Re: Another barriers question (not related to the psychokinetic
In-Reply-To: <199801021434.HAA04285@******.carl.org>
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David Buehrer said on 7:34/ 2 Jan 98...

> My feeling is that when the physical barrier is cast it expands like a
> balloon and acts like a soap bubble.
>
> If it can flow around an object (like a teammate within the radius)
> as it's expanding it will. Things get a little wierd when things
> that are connected to the ground, like rocks, light poles and trees,
> are involved (and objects that reach up from the

From:	Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject:	Re: Melee Question
Date:	Sat, 3 Jan 1998 12:56:27 +0000

Message no. 8 This means that if the use points from their KP at other times they
definitely wont have it available in the next combat. It makes them
think twice about the risk.

And as for those people who deliberately start a fight to recover
their KP Shadowlands 6 has a wonderful little solution : Bad Karma.
This can be used in any game where the Players try to maintain moral
standards and basicaly gives the GM a Karma pool for his NPC's.
Points are added whenever the players do something bad. Points are
burned for a re-roll or extra dice. Points can also be used to buy
the NPC's those little extras, like a sniper rifle.
Fox on the Net
ICQ UIN - 5239612
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Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 04:27:55 PST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Mon goose <landsquid@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Optical Memory Chips
Content-Type: text/plain

>I've been doing some stuff on personal computers for NERPS lately,
>and I found one nasty glitch in SR... The costs of optical memory.

Well, depends on what you regard as "memory".

>a) OMCs store up to 1 Gp, while mini-CDs store up to 100 Mp. And
>hermetic library stored on OMCs instead of CDs is only 200¥ more per
rating point squared. (SRII rulebook)

The overiding cost here is the INFORMATION- the format is a mere
convinience. I assumeyourpresumtion is, due

From:	Andy Gardner <A.Gardner@******.COM>
Subject:	Re: Melee Question
Date:	Sat, 3 Jan 1998 13:24:07 +0000

Message no. 9 As is only appropritefor a physical manipulation.

>> And ditto on the ruling that once a physical barrier has been cast
>> that it can't be moved.
>
>The barrier would be locked in place in the situation I sketched above,
but if the horizontal wall isn't there, it could move up and down. I
feel the barrier should move with the spell lock.

Actually, Gurth, almost ANY use of such an interpretation in doors would
lock the barrier in place. It goes through the floor, right? Well,
doesnt it appear in between thefloor boards? Doesn't it apear INSIDE
the walls, IE inbetwwen the drywall layers or whatever? That meansit
wouuld "hang" an lots of studs, wiring, floorsupports, etc, almost
immeditely.

The only situation I can see such an inteprtation allowing a moving
barrier in is if the barrier is fully in the open or moving away from
solid earth. Possibly it mightmove ok in a perfectly smooth, straight
pipe with no blocking external supports.

OK, what happens If Im on the subway and I cast

From:	Mon goose <landsquid@*******.COM>
Subject:	Re: Melee Question
Date:	Sat, 3 Jan 1998 05:36:22 PST

Message no. 10 BTW, best use of barrir I've ever seen- we are inside an aquaduct and
have to disarm a bomb. I say "gee, it would be nice if we were dry."
Mage helps by stopping water flow with Barrier. We all turn and glare-
"why didn't you do that 20 minutes ago?". Of course, it was a bictch
when the barrier came down, us still in the pipe. We used a MANA
barrier then, so as not to get washed away.

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Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 12:56:27 +0000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Melee Question
In-Reply-To: <19980102232623.24648.qmail@*******.com> from "Mon goose" at
Jan
2, 98 03:26:23 pm
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And verily, did Mon goose hastily scribble thusly...
|
|>Thanks to losthalo I've been rethinking my views on melee/unarmed
|>combat and it's brought up a question.
|>
|>Can an untrained person counter attack?
|
| According to the rules, yes- default to quickness (+2),no combat
|pool (skill needed for test = 0).
| An untrained person would be more likely to instinctively go on
|"full defense", and likely safer doing so. But a real dirty down
|drunken bar brawler, sure, he'll swing at anybody who comes at him,
|training or not, bad idea or not.

But if he has no combat pool, it's impossible to counter-attack, because you
don't have any dice to counter-attack with!

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk|

From:	Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject:	Re: Melee Question
Date:	Sat, 3 Jan 1998 13:42:23 +0000

Message no. 11 And verily, did losthalo hastily scribble thusly...
|This... I have a theoretical problem with. What, exactly, is casting the
|spell if it isn't the magician? Once the spell is in existence, it can
|carry out a program of events, affect a target, whatever, but it takes a
|magician shaping mana, to get the spell into existence in the first place.

Yes? From the way I read it, the spell IS cast by the mage.
However, it's imbued with some form of intellect, and can decide when to
trigger itself independently.

I think I got that right...

|Is it his subconscious handling the spell for him, or what? The spell is
|just a pattern of ideas and methods for manipulating mana, sitting in the
|magician's memory, until he does something with it. How can a spell,
|sitting in your memory, cast itself?

I thought the mage cast the spell, and t

From:	Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject:	Re: Melee Question
Date:	Sat, 3 Jan 1998 13:43:52 +0000

Message no. 12 >> Hey, can I play in Ivy's game? I want to lock an Armor spell with
>> 449 KP worth of extra dice, and one reroll!
>
>Yeah, me too!
>;P

Not ME! I'd want at least 5 re-rolls with that many dice, to ga-ran-tee
400+ succeses. Sheesh, basic probality, my friends. %^)

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From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: Melee Question
Date:	Sat, 3 Jan 1998 21:31:11 +0100

Message no. 13 Hey, there's a URL in my sig file now!
Check it out at: www.lowephoto.com.

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Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 11:56:56 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: "David R. Lowe" <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Crash of 29
Mime-Version: 1.0
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<snip crash stuff>

Most of the theories I've seen about the Crash have involved corrupted
data. What if it was the OS itself that caused the problem? Either a
deliberate or accidental flaw in the dominant operating system that
inherently corrupted all data it was working with?

Now I'm not trying to knock any particular system, I'm just trying to put
it in real world terms. What if, tomorrow, all machines using Windows
software in all its insepid forms irrevocably crashed? The entire world is
not on Windows machines, but I would wager 90% of world wide business would
come to a halt. Think what that would do to the economy.

Just a few thoughts, and please, don't turn this into an OS war. I just
used Windows as an example because of its prominance in the business
sector.

D.

David R. Lowe (dlowe@*********.com)
Photography/Design

Hey, there's a URL in my sig file now!
Check it out at: www.lowephoto.com.

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Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 12:04:52 -0800
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: David <a0021875@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Melee Combat Revisited
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> This one, however, has some
> potential merit. however, the suggestion that it be made +2TN for every
> 10 segments or part thereof would not and should not work, simply because
> if my initiative is 33 and my opponent's is 34, I suddenly get a +2 TN
> because he's roughly 2 milliseconds faster.
>
> --
It wasnt meant to have a +2 mod for such a small distance of time in the
initiative, it only counts when the faster combatant goes beyond 10
segments..

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: Melee Question
Date:	Sat, 3 Jan 1998 21:31:11 +0100

Message no. 14 On 3 Jan 98 at 12:44, Andy Gardner wrote:

> I agree that it's true that all FASA sources say a possessed
> person is unrecoverable EXCEPT for 2XS. In there Montgomery's sister is
> in a hive and is connected up, effectively cocooned. IIRC there are even
> things going through the connection to the 'aura'.

>
> OK, FASA say that the novels aren't canon but the entire process of
> insect possession is a little nebulous.

You pretty much just answered your own question. One of my pet peeves
about SR novels is that most of the writers have taken liberties with the
game in order to accomplish what they wanted in a novel.

> Do people get cocooned first, the possessed or the way round ?

Generally, as I understand it, they are

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