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Message no. 1
From: Logan Graves <logan1@*****.INTERCOM.NET>
Subject: Merlin (was: Re: IE's)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 20:28:16 -0400
Rick St Jean wrote:
>
> But nothing stops immortal humans like merlin coming
> back and tearing them apart taking earth back from those fragging
> dandelion eating pansies.... but i digress.

Hold it -- time out! Who said Merlin was human? Did I miss something
here? I always figured him for a'nother fraggin I.E!

--Fenris
_______________________________________________logan1@*****.intercom.net
(>) To live is to war with trolls. --Henrik Ibsen
(>) To war with trolls is to die! --Genghis Grimtooth
Message no. 2
From: Rick St Jean <Platinum@*****.CA>
Subject: Re: Merlin (was: Re: IE's)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 20:35:35 -0400
Logan Graves wrote:
>
> Hold it -- time out! Who said Merlin was human? Did I miss something
> here? I always figured him for a'nother fraggin I.E!
>
> --Fenris

no way. If anything he is a cross between a human and a demon.

PLEASE LET MERLIN BE HUMAN..... I had enough of elves.

A Plea from the library of
Platinum
Message no. 3
From: Logan Graves <logan1@*****.INTERCOM.NET>
Subject: Re: Merlin (was: Re: IE's)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 21:15:44 -0400
Rick St Jean wrote:
>
> no way. If anything he is a cross between a human and a demon.
>
> PLEASE LET MERLIN BE HUMAN..... I had enough of elves.

OR maybe he's a cross between a human and immortal elf. Hummn?

--Ricochet Rita, Razorgal
_______________________________________________logan1@*****.intercom.net
(>) We do more damage before 9:00 am
than most folks do all day!
(>) --RR,R
Message no. 4
From: Stefan <casanova@******.PASSAGEN.SE>
Subject: Re: Merlin (was: Re: IE's)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 20:43:41 +0000
> > But nothing stops immortal humans like merlin coming
> > back and tearing them apart taking earth back from those fragging
> > dandelion eating pansies.... but i digress.
>
> Hold it -- time out! Who said Merlin was human? Did I miss something
> here? I always figured him for a'nother fraggin I.E!

Was Merlin an Elf ? Ehh I always though he was some sort of demon or
spirit or something ....

/Stefan
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Frag you and the datastream you came on!" - Sinjin the decker
------------------------------------------------------------------------
... E-Mail .............................. casanova@***.passagen.se ...
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Message no. 5
From: David Thompson <david.s.thompson@****.EDU>
Subject: Re: Merlin (was: Re: IE's)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 15:15:47 -0400
At 08:43 PM 10/7/97 +0000, you wrote:
>> > But nothing stops immortal humans like merlin coming
>> > back and tearing them apart taking earth back from those fragging
>> > dandelion eating pansies.... but i digress.
>>
>> Hold it -- time out! Who said Merlin was human? Did I miss something
>> here? I always figured him for a'nother fraggin I.E!
>
>Was Merlin an Elf ? Ehh I always though he was some sort of demon or
>spirit or something ....
>
Really? I thought he was a human living backwards in time, or was that
from the cartoon version...

--DT
Message no. 6
From: "Fisher, Victor" <Victor-Fisher@******.COM>
Subject: Merlin (was re: IEs')
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 15:29:44 -0400
Here's an excerpt about the 'man' in question from The Camelot
Project at the University of Rochester:


MERLIN, Arthur's adviser, prophet and magician, is basically the
creation of Geoffrey of Monmouth, who in his twelfth-century History of
the Kings of Britain combined the Welsh traditions about a bard and
prophet named Myrddin with the story that the ninth-century chronicler
Nennius tells about Ambrosius (that he had no human father and that he
prophesied the defeat of the British by the Saxons). Geoffrey gave his
character the name Merlin us rather than Merdinus (the normal
Latinization of Myrddin) because the latter might have suggested to his
Anglo-Norman audience the vulgar word "merde." In Geoffrey's book,
Merlin assists Uther Pendragon and is responsible for transporting the
stones of Stonehenge from Ireland, but he is not associated with Arthur.
Geoffrey also wrote a book of "Prophecies of Merlin" before his History.
The Prophecies were then incorporated into the History as its seventh
book. These led to a tradition that is manifested in other medieval
works, in eighteenth-century almanac writers who made predictions under
such names as Merlinus Anglicus, and in the presentaion of Merlin in
later literature. Merlin became very popular in the Middle Ages. He is
central to a major text of the thirteenth-century French Vulgate cycle,
and he figures in a number of other French and English romances. Sir
Thomas Malory, in the Morte d'Arthur presents him as the adviser and
guide to Arthur. In the modern period Merlin's popularity has remained
constant. He figures in works from the Renaissance to the modern period.
In The Idylls of the King, Tennyson makes him the architect of Camelot.
Mark Twain, parodying Tennyson's Arthurian world, makes Merlin a
villain, and in one of the illustrations to the first edition of Twain's
work illustrator Dan Beard's Merlin has Tennyson's face. Numerous
novels, poems and plays center around Merlin. In American literature and
popular culture, Merlin is perhaps the most frequently portrayed
Arthurian character.


________________________________________
George Kuffs: I'm looking for a really big gun which holds a lot of
bullets.
Gun Salesman: God bless you, young man.
<Kuffs looking into camera: I always wanted a gun.>
Salesman: Is this what you had in mind? It's a 9mm Beretta. 15 in the
clip, 1 in the pipe.
Kufffs: Got one that holds more?
Salesman: No...
Kuffs: I'll take two.
- from the movie _Kuffs_
Message no. 7
From: Rick St Jean <Platinum@*****.CA>
Subject: Re: Merlin (was: Re: IE's)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 16:51:32 -0400
Logan Graves wrote:
>
> Rick St Jean wrote:
> >
> > no way. If anything he is a cross between a human and a demon.
> >
> > PLEASE LET MERLIN BE HUMAN..... I had enough of elves.
>
> OR maybe he's a cross between a human and immortal elf. Hummn?
>
you are evil and have no heart :~(
Message no. 8
From: Stefan <casanova@******.PASSAGEN.SE>
Subject: Re: Merlin (was: Re: IE's)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 23:03:51 +0000
> >> > But nothing stops immortal humans like merlin coming
> >> > back and tearing them apart taking earth back from those fragging
> >> > dandelion eating pansies.... but i digress.
> >>
> >> Hold it -- time out! Who said Merlin was human? Did I miss something
> >> here? I always figured him for a'nother fraggin I.E!
> >
> >Was Merlin an Elf ? Ehh I always though he was some sort of demon or
> >spirit or something ....
> >
> Really? I thought he was a human living backwards in time, or was that
> from the cartoon version...

Well that was my silly imagination playing anyway ... I have always
thought he was something supernatural ... not just plain ol' human.

/Stefan

------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Frag you and the datastream you came on!" - Sinjin the decker
------------------------------------------------------------------------
... E-Mail .............................. casanova@***.passagen.se ...
... HomePage .............................. http://hsl.home.ml.org ...
... HomePage ................... http://www.bugsoft.hik.se/sl11ls/ ...
... ICQ .................................................. 1403212 ...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 9
From: Stefan <casanova@******.PASSAGEN.SE>
Subject: Re: Merlin (was: Re: IE's)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 23:05:17 +0000
> > > no way. If anything he is a cross between a human and a demon.
> > >
> > > PLEASE LET MERLIN BE HUMAN..... I had enough of elves.
> >
> > OR maybe he's a cross between a human and immortal elf. Hummn?

are you implying that Merlins was some sort of a freak and a bastard
? :)

> you are evil and have no heart :~(

It's a sick sad world isn't it ? :)

/Stefan

------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Frag you and the datastream you came on!" - Sinjin the decker
------------------------------------------------------------------------
... E-Mail .............................. casanova@***.passagen.se ...
... HomePage .............................. http://hsl.home.ml.org ...
... HomePage ................... http://www.bugsoft.hik.se/sl11ls/ ...
... ICQ .................................................. 1403212 ...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 10
From: Logan Graves <logan1@*****.INTERCOM.NET>
Subject: Re: Merlin (was re: IEs')
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 17:28:43 -0400
Fisher, Victor wrote:
>
<snip some very fascinating stuff about the Big "M.">
> In American literature and
> popular culture, Merlin is perhaps the most frequently portrayed
> Arthurian character.

Okay that's the Fifth World's legend of Merlin, but how does he fit
into the Sixth World? He must have been either the progeny of (or *one*
of) the immortal elves or some form of extra dimensional entity. Since
during the times you specified, the mana cycle was still low.

--Fenris
_______________________________________________logan1@*****.intercom.net
(>) To live is to war with trolls. --Henrik Ibsen
(>) To war with trolls is to die! --Genghis Grimtooth
Message no. 11
From: Frank Pelletier <jeanpell@****.IVIC.QC.CA>
Subject: Re: Merlin (was re: IEs')
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 18:19:47 +0000
Logan Graves <logan1@*****.INTERCOM.NET>

> Okay that's the Fifth World's legend of Merlin, but how does he fit
> into the Sixth World? He must have been either the progeny of (or *one*
> of) the immortal elves or some form of extra dimensional entity. Since
> during the times you specified, the mana cycle was still low.
>
> --Fenris

Okay...I haven't followed the IE saga from day one... But, it seems,
from a FASA point-of-view anyways, that many "great" luminaries were
(or still are) elves. Here, we have Merlin, maybe. And, of course,
Leonardo Da Vinci was supposed to be one. So I have this simple
question... What about "evil" elves? Hitler? Torquemada?
Nero? Ceasar? What about Morgan le Fey? It seems, IMHO that,
if great "good" people were elves, than their "evil" counterpart
should be also..
Life isn't always a shining path of roses, ya know ;)

Just my two nuyens,

Trinity
"Life is a blur"
Message no. 12
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Merlin (was re: IEs')
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 00:33:51 +0100
In article <343AA98B.2255@*****.intercom.net>, Logan Graves
<logan1@*****.INTERCOM.NET> waffled & burbled about Merlin (was re:
IEs')
>Fisher, Victor wrote:
>>
> <snip some very fascinating stuff about the Big "M.">
>> In American literature and
>> popular culture, Merlin is perhaps the most frequently portrayed
>> Arthurian character.
>
> Okay that's the Fifth World's legend of Merlin, but how does he fit
>into the Sixth World? He must have been either the progeny of (or *one*
>of) the immortal elves or some form of extra dimensional entity. Since
>during the times you specified, the mana cycle was still low.

Merlin was a demon, a product of an unholy union of man and otherworld
creature.

Now, if you take that little snippet, provided by the devil's advocate
view of the legendary figure, why does Merlin have to be an elf,
immortal or otherwise.

He was a possesed "humanoid", possessed, probably by, or actually was a
Horror. He existed during a time of great strife and pain for England,
through a period with Arthur and his father, when Britain was wracked
with brutal wars and infighting. He fed from the pain of the populace,
and the discourse of the nation. Later, when England became peaceful
during Arthur's reign, he caused the situation behind Launcelot du lac
and Guinevere, causing immense pain to Arthur's heart and soul, and
thoroughly enjoying the feedback from this. His only mortal enemy, was
the "good" (tm) witch, Morgain le Fey (Morag of the Fairies) who finally
in a tumultuous battle, trapped Merlin within his own domain deep in the
bowels of the earth, wrapped in impermiable crystal.

So, make of that what you will.

--
Dark Avenger -:- http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk -
Unofficial Shadowtk Newbies Guide, Edgerunners Datastore &
Beginnings of the Underseas Sourcebook.
http://freespace.virgin.net/pete.sims - Alternative UK Sourcebook (U/C)
Message no. 13
From: Logan Graves <logan1@*****.INTERCOM.NET>
Subject: Re: Merlin (was re: IEs')
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 20:03:21 -0400
Avenger wrote:
>
> <snip yet even more fascinating stuff about the Big "M.">
> Merlin was a demon, a product of an unholy union of man and otherworld
> creature.
>
> Now, if you take that little snippet, provided by the devil's advocate
> view of the legendary figure, why does Merlin have to be an elf,
> immortal or otherwise.
>
> He was a possesed "humanoid", possessed, probably by, or actually was a
> Horror. He existed during a time of great strife and pain for England,
> through a period with Arthur and his father, when Britain was wracked
> with brutal wars and infighting. He fed from the pain of the populace,
> and the discourse of the nation. Later, when England became peaceful
> during Arthur's reign, he caused the situation behind Launcelot du lac
> and Guinevere, causing immense pain to Arthur's heart and soul, and
> thoroughly enjoying the feedback from this. His only mortal enemy, was
> the "good" (tm) witch, Morgain le Fey (Morag of the Fairies) who finally
> in a tumultuous battle, trapped Merlin within his own domain deep in the
> bowels of the earth, wrapped in impermiable crystal.
>
> So, make of that what you will.


Sounds like one of those Insidious Immortal Elf(tm)(r)(c) plans to me...
But ya never know?

It still doesn't explain the magic/lack-of-magic thingie, 'tho.
--Fenris
_______________________________________________logan1@*****.intercom.net
(>) To live is to war with trolls. --Henrik Ibsen
(>) To war with trolls is to die! --Genghis Grimtooth
Message no. 14
From: Logan Graves <logan1@*****.INTERCOM.NET>
Subject: Re: Merlin (was re: IEs')
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 20:13:50 -0400
In our last episode, sombody 'real' profound wrote:

> Sounds like one of those Insidious Immortal Elf(tm)(r)(c) plans to me...
> But ya never know?

> It still doesn't explain the magic/lack-of-magic thingie, 'tho.>

Although, the more I think about it, any sort of sophisticated science
(alchemy, chemistry, scatology, whatever, etc) probably seem like Magik
to feudal England. Just the sort of thing an IE would have prior
knowledge about, eh?

--Fenris (who's being rude & answering his own post ;)

_______________________________________________logan1@*****.intercom.net
(>) To live is to war with trolls. --Henrik Ibsen
(>) To war with trolls is to die! --Genghis Grimtooth
Message no. 15
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Merlin (was: Re: IE's)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 22:33:10 -0400
In a message dated 97-10-07 05:39:00 EDT, logan1@*****.INTERCOM.NET (Logan
Graves) writes:

> > no way. If anything he is a cross between a human and a demon.
> >
> > PLEASE LET MERLIN BE HUMAN..... I had enough of elves.
>
> OR maybe he's a cross between a human and immortal elf. Hummn?
>
At least it's not as bad as one character I know, his father is "Nemesis"
from the Horrors book (okay, not -his- father, but his family's blood line is
traced back to such).

-K
Message no. 16
From: Rick St Jean <Platinum@*****.CA>
Subject: Re: Merlin (was re: IEs')
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 22:34:24 -0400
Logan Graves wrote:
>
> In our last episode, sombody 'real' profound wrote:
>
> > Sounds like one of those Insidious Immortal Elf(tm)(r)(c) plans to me...
> > But ya never know?
>
> > It still doesn't explain the magic/lack-of-magic thingie, 'tho.>
>
> Although, the more I think about it, any sort of sophisticated science
> (alchemy, chemistry, scatology, whatever, etc) probably seem like Magik
> to feudal England. Just the sort of thing an IE would have prior
> knowledge about, eh?

It just sounds like you have Immortal Elves on the Brain. I can accept
him as a free spirit, a demon,a dragon or some kinda lich. Isn't he
supposed to be imprisioned within a tree somewhere in britain and the
druids are safeguarding his location.
It seems, (like someone mentioned earlier) that all great figures and
those behind the scenes are always elves.
Message no. 17
From: NightLife <habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Merlin (was: Re: IE's)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 01:15:56 -0400
>Really? I thought he was a human living backwards in time, or was that
>from the cartoon version...
>
> --DT

I think you're talking about Gandalf.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

I summon the unholy demons of Apathy, Sarcasm and Cynicism!!

Wally from the Dilbert comics

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Message no. 18
From: Chris Maxfield <cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: Merlin (was re: IEs')
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 17:42:38 +1000
At 18:19 7/10/97 +0000, Frank Pelletier wrote:
>Okay...I haven't followed the IE saga from day one... But, it seems,
>from a FASA point-of-view anyways, that many "great" luminaries were
>(or still are) elves. Here, we have Merlin, maybe. And, of course,
>Leonardo Da Vinci was supposed to be one. So I have this simple
>question... What about "evil" elves? Hitler? Torquemada?
>Nero? Ceasar? What about Morgan le Fey? It seems, IMHO that,
>if great "good" people were elves, than their "evil" counterpart
should be
also..
>Life isn't always a shining path of roses, ya know ;)

You gotta take the good with the bad. For example, it has always puzzled me
as to why people can believe that inexplicable, fantastic events/things
with good outcomes are defined as miracles but inexplicable, fantastic
things/events with bad outcomes are not.

But this "IE in history" meme is something that I despise. It is similar to
the "Ancient Atronauts" drek. It explains away wonderful, outstanding or
talented people, ideas or devices in history to the IEs. It rapes the
successes of the human race. By this meme, these great people in history
are not ordinary folk who have achieved amazing (or infamous) things with
their lives. Rather, they are IEs. Ordinary mundanes can, obviously, never
hope to ascend to such lofty heights of achievement - it takes an IE to do
it and common, ordinary folk are far below the required talents. We, the
human race, have achieved frag all. It has been handed to us, on a plate,
by those IEs.

OK. That's probably over doing it. But even if just a few famous figures in
history are IEs then the same problem still applies. I despise IEs as
historical figures and I view any author/GM who uses such with contempt.

Chris




_______________________________________________________________
Chris Maxfield We are restless because of incessant
<cmaxfiel@****.org.au> change, but we would be frightened if
Canberra, Australia change were stopped.
Message no. 19
From: Ray & Tamara <macey@***.BRISNET.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: Merlin (was re: IEs')
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 14:49:25 +1000
Trinity wrote:
> Okay...I haven't followed the IE saga from day one... But, it seems,
> from a FASA point-of-view anyways, that many "great" luminaries were
> (or still are) elves. Here, we have Merlin, maybe. And, of course,
> Leonardo Da Vinci was supposed to be one. So I have this simple

They have stepped away from that idea now. I'm guessing that no more famous
faces from the past will turn out to be IE's. And Leo being an elf is in the
novel only, which I believe is contradicted by a flyer that FASA released.

> question... What about "evil" elves? Hitler? Torquemada?
> Nero? Ceasar? What about Morgan le Fey? It seems, IMHO that,
> if great "good" people were elves, than their "evil" counterpart
should be
also..
> Life isn't always a shining path of roses, ya know ;)

It also says in one of the novels that Alachia became Queen of England at
some stage. She wasn't exactly 'good'.

NightRain.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| The universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

EMAIL: macey@***.brisnet.org.au
Message no. 20
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Merlin (was re: IEs')
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 12:48:57 +0100
And verily, did Avenger hastily scribble thusly...
<Evil Merlin idea snipped...>

|So, make of that what you will.

Looks a little bit too close to the abortion that was the RIFTS version in
RIFTS England, if you ask me....

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 21
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Merlin (was: Re: IE's)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 12:57:04 +0100
And verily, did NightLife hastily scribble thusly...
|
|>Really? I thought he was a human living backwards in time, or was that
|>from the cartoon version...
|>
|> --DT
|
|I think you're talking about Gandalf.

I don't know where you got THAT idea from...

Gandalf wasn't human. He was on of the... errr... things that are slightly
less powerfull than Valar....
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 22
From: Bredget Stroud <bstroud@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Merlin (was: Re: IE's)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 05:49:57 -0700
DT wrote:

>Really? I thought he was a human living backwards in time, or was that
>from the cartoon version...
>
> --DT

That was from the cartoon version... Gargoyles wasn't it?

Then Nightlife replied:

>I think you're talking about Gandalf.

Isn't he from The Hobbit?

Bredget Stroud
MSMail Support Engineer
bstroud@*********.com

"Difficulties, hardships, &
challenges cause some to break,
> and others to break records." -- unknown
Message no. 23
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Merlin (was: Re: IE's)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 14:25:08 +0100
|>I think you're talking about Gandalf.
|
|Isn't he from The Hobbit?

And more significantly from "Lord of the Rings", yes...

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 24
From: Scott Roberts <shayd@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Merlin (was re: IEs')
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 10:41:10 -0400
At 05:42 PM 10/8/97 +1000, you wrote:
>At 18:19 7/10/97 +0000, Frank Pelletier wrote:
>>Okay...I haven't followed the IE saga from day one... But, it seems,
>>from a FASA point-of-view anyways, that many "great" luminaries were
>>(or still are) elves. Here, we have Merlin, maybe. And, of course,
>>Leonardo Da Vinci was supposed to be one. So I have this simple
>>question... What about "evil" elves? Hitler? Torquemada?
>>Nero? Ceasar? What about Morgan le Fey? It seems, IMHO that,
>>if great "good" people were elves, than their "evil"
counterpart should be
>also..
<snip>

In one of the novels (I believe it is the one with the Earthdawn crossover
books, starring Harlequin and the black female elf, where they summon up
part of the Wild Hunt), Alachia (at least, I'm pretty sure it's her) is
depicted as driving along with Adolf Hitler in one of his caravans. She's
also depicted as Queen Victoria.

OTOH, as far as Merlin is concerned, I have it on relatively good authority
(Paul Hume) that Merlin (and the rest of the Arthurian mythos) is explained
in the FASA universe as a particularly long duration mana spike in early
England, and that Merlin is a *human* who apparently found some way to live
for a very long time. Yes, the Ambrose at the beginning of VR 2.0 is
indeed Merlin Ambrosius.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You Don't Like My Point Of View, You Think That I'm Insane..."
shayd@********.net--Scott "Shayd" Roberts--Cybernex, Inc.
Director of Roleplaying, Shadowrun MUX Seattle (shadowrun.dnaco.net 4201)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 25
From: Hernandez <hernandez@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Merlin (was: Re: IE's)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 08:08:36 -0700
> And verily, did NightLife hastily scribble thusly...
> |
> |>Really? I thought he was a human living backwards in time, or was that
> |>from the cartoon version...
> |>
> |> --DT
> |
> |I think you're talking about Gandalf.
>
> I don't know where you got THAT idea from...
>
> Spike said:
>
> Gandalf wasn't human. He was on of the... errr... things that are
slightly
> less powerfull than Valar....

He was one of the Maiar. They steward the world under the direction of the
Valar

MoonShadow
hernandez@********.com
ICQ 3220365

May the god, goddess, or deity of your choice bless,
curse, or completely ignore you, as per your wishes
Message no. 26
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@*****.ONET.PL>
Subject: Re: Merlin (was: Re: IE's)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 17:59:45 +0000
On 8 Oct 97, Spike disseminated foul capitalist propaganda by
writing:

> And verily, did NightLife hastily scribble thusly...
> |
> |>Really? I thought he was a human living backwards in time, or was that
> |>from the cartoon version...
> |>
> |> --DT
> |
> |I think you're talking about Gandalf.
>
> I don't know where you got THAT idea from...
>
> Gandalf wasn't human. He was on of the... errr... things that are
> slightly less powerfull than Valar.... --

Maiar (or Majar, I'm not sure of the english spelling), that is. They
were not _sligtly_ less powerful than Valar... (What's the English
plural of Valar? Valari? I don't think it's Valars. :>) After all,
Valari created the world, and Majar(i?) were just very powerful,
spellcasting spirits.

Something akin to a Force 20 Free Spirit with Sorcery Power. :>


Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@*****.onet.pl; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (SS) (PC) (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae
Palatinae
Vote for unilateral withdrawal! (It'll solve the population problem!)
Message no. 27
From: Mike <cynner29@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Merlin (was: Re: IE's)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 12:30:24 -0400
At 05:59 PM 10/8/97 +0000, you wrote:
>On 8 Oct 97, Spike disseminated foul capitalist propaganda by
>writing:
> Gandalf wasn't human. He was on of the... errr... things that are
> slightly less powerfull than Valar.... --

Mike (Leszek Karlik) wrote:
>
>Maiar (or Majar, I'm not sure of the english spelling), that is. They
>were not _sligtly_ less powerful than Valar... (What's the English
>plural of Valar? Valari? I don't think it's Valars. :>) After all,
>Valari created the world, and Majar(i?) were just very powerful,
>spellcasting spirits.
>
>Something akin to a Force 20 Free Spirit with Sorcery Power. :>
>
My brother, the Movie Nut, informed me that shooting of a live-action
"Hobbit" had just begun in Austraila. Unfortunately that's all he knew,
just enough to keep me up at night worrying about how Hollywood is going to
trash this. Anyone know more?

Cynner -
Message no. 28
From: Mike <cynner29@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Merlin (was: Re: IE's)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 12:54:28 -0400
Nightlife replied:
>>I think you're talking about Gandalf.

Bredget Stroud worte:
>Isn't he from The Hobbit?

ACK...ACK...<<gasping for air>>
Never do that when someone's drinking a coke. :)

Tell me you're kidding. A role-player that hasn't read the "LotR" series is
like a US lawyer that hasn't read the Constitution. In the sense that it
may not always be applicable but it's the root of what you're doing.

Cynner - Gone to look for a towel, before this coke dries.
Message no. 29
From: "Rick J. Irvine" <irvine@***.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Merlin (was: Re: IE's)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 14:02:42 -0500
At 12:54 PM 10/8/97 -0400, Cynner wrote:
>ACK...ACK...<<gasping for air>>
>Never do that when someone's drinking a coke. :)
>
>Tell me you're kidding. A role-player that hasn't read the "LotR" series is
>like a US lawyer that hasn't read the Constitution. In the sense that it
>may not always be applicable but it's the root of what you're doing.
>
> Cynner - Gone to look for a towel, before this coke dries.

Speaking of towels, I'd say the same thing about the Hitchhiker's Guide
to the Galaxy. *Grin* Never ever leave your apartment w/o your handy
dandy towel.

(It'll come in really handy for my Gnome character)

Cheers,
Rick
Message no. 30
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Merlin (was re: IEs')
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 02:26:32 +0100
In article <24049.199710081148@*****.teach.cs.keele.ac.uk>, Spike
<u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK> waffled & burbled about Merlin (was re:
IEs')
>And verily, did Avenger hastily scribble thusly...
><Evil Merlin idea snipped...>
>
>|So, make of that what you will.
>
>Looks a little bit too close to the abortion that was the RIFTS version in
>RIFTS England, if you ask me....

That being the case, then one must assume that the horrors are also
ripped from Rifts, neh?

According to Rifts - England, Mrrlyn is an alien, known as the Zllyphan,
they have the ability to possess the recently deceased and bring the
corpse back to life.

I don't have the Earthdawn books, so i know not, nor care whether
horrors can possess humans or other life forms, however, the possibility
that Merlin was a Horror was also suggested. Whether being a horror ties
in with a Rifts alien intelligence, is rather immaterial. I was simply
offering an alternative to the incessant and irritating involvement of
IE with every major figure and plot throughout flipping eternity.

If you watch the movie Excalibur, you'll see that in this film, Morgan
le Fey traps merlin in his domain, inside a crystal, defeating him after
Arthur drives Excalibur into the earth (thus wounding Merlin) after
discovering Guinevere with Lancelot. Sorry, that the movie, two books
and a RPG sourcebook are so similar for your tastes Sascha. :)

I will immediately write to the director, and authors, and mention to
them that they are so similar they are causing problems, and reallyu
shouldn't steal ideas from each other. :)


--
Dark Avenger -:- http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk -
Unofficial Shadowtk Newbies Guide, Edgerunners Datastore &
Beginnings of the Underseas Sourcebook.
http://freespace.virgin.net/pete.sims - Alternative UK Sourcebook (U/C)
Message no. 31
From: "SHANE J. WINZAR" <s702399@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Merlin (was: Re: IE's)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 16:10:43 +1000
On Wed, 8 Oct 1997, Spike wrote:
> |>Really? I thought he was a human living backwards in time, or was that
> |>from the cartoon version...
> |>
> |
> |I think you're talking about Gandalf.
>
> I don't know where you got THAT idea from...
>
> Gandalf wasn't human. He was on of the... errr... things that are slightly
> less powerfull than Valar....

I think he was a Maiar (sp?) ...it's been a while since I read the
Silmarillion.

-Tamino

---------------------------------------------------------
Tamino aka Shane Winzar : s702399@*****.student.gu.edu.au
---------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 32
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Merlin (was re: IEs')
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 04:14:04 -0400
Scott Roberts once dared to write,

>OTOH, as far as Merlin is concerned, I have it on relatively good authority
>(Paul Hume) that Merlin (and the rest of the Arthurian mythos) is explained
>in the FASA universe as a particularly long duration mana spike in early
>England, and that Merlin is a *human* who apparently found some way to live
>for a very long time. Yes, the Ambrose at the beginning of VR 2.0 is
>indeed Merlin Ambrosius.

Hmmm, I want to believe that there can be non Elven immortals
besides the great dragons but something tells me FASA will never outright
say so. sigh.
Anyway, this concept of Merlin still running around can give a new
twist to the Shadowrun universe. Pondering this made me ponder a game
where Damien Knight was the Pendragon (original or otherwise). I like the
concept but it sounds too optimistic for my game.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

"All artists are victims of their desire to be unique"
-Original source unknown

I am MC23
Message no. 33
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Merlin (was: Re: IE's)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 21:52:05 +0100
|Speaking of towels, I'd say the same thing about the Hitchhiker's Guide
|to the Galaxy. *Grin* Never ever leave your apartment w/o your handy
|dandy towel.
|
|(It'll come in really handy for my Gnome character)

Just hope he never comes across a situation where he might need it.
(The ravenous bugblatter beast of traal isn't very nice, even if you DO have
a towel....)

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 34
From: Ray & Tamara <macey@***.BRISNET.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: Merlin (was: Re: IE's)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 10:55:49 +1000
> >>I think you're talking about Gandalf.
>
> Bredget Stroud worte:
> >Isn't he from The Hobbit?
>
> ACK...ACK...<<gasping for air>>
> Never do that when someone's drinking a coke. :)
>
> Tell me you're kidding. A role-player that hasn't read the "LotR" series is
> like a US lawyer that hasn't read the Constitution. In the sense that it
> may not always be applicable but it's the root of what you're doing.

I haven't read them. I got through the Hobbit after several attempts, but I
still can't get my way through theLotR series. They are too, ah...
'childish' (for want of a better word). I don't mean that to be offensive by
the way. I just found that Tom Bombadil for example, really annoyed me. He
sang to much, and made the book seem like a sort of satire/joke. And the
Hobbit was full of that sort of stuff.

NightRain.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| The universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

EMAIL: macey@***.brisnet.org.au
Message no. 35
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Merlin (was: Re: IE's)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 22:09:56 +0100
Ray & Tamara said on 10:55/ 9 Oct 97...

> I haven't read them. I got through the Hobbit after several attempts, but I
> still can't get my way through theLotR series. They are too, ah...
> 'childish' (for want of a better word). I don't mean that to be offensive by
> the way. I just found that Tom Bombadil for example, really annoyed me. He
> sang to much, and made the book seem like a sort of satire/joke. And the
> Hobbit was full of that sort of stuff.

The Hobbit is a children's book, after all, so it's to be expected. LotR
is a good book, IMHO, but I found it tough going because of the somewhat
old-fashioned writing style, though.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
The stupid is always possible.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 36
From: Czar Eggbert <czregbrt@*********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Merlin (was: Re: IE's)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 15:20:52 -0500
On Wed, 8 Oct 1997, Mike wrote:

> Nightlife replied:
> >>I think you're talking about Gandalf.
>
> Bredget Stroud worte:
> >Isn't he from The Hobbit?
>
> ACK...ACK...<<gasping for air>>
> Never do that when someone's drinking a coke. :)
>
> Tell me you're kidding. A role-player that hasn't read the "LotR" series is
> like a US lawyer that hasn't read the Constitution. In the sense that it
> may not always be applicable but it's the root of what you're doing.
>
<OT Silly stuff>
Damn! What do you mean, Freedom of Speach? Where is that? Oh ya. I'd been
meaning to read that some day. Your right it would make your case much
stronger...Wait, wait! Where are you going?
</OT Silly Stuff>

But I've never Read any Tolken... None at all! I keep meaning to
read LotR but I never get the chance... But on that same note a SR player
that has never read Gibson, now thats a shame.

<more OT>
How many people have read the Wrinkel in Time series? I read it
first when I was 10 and I still enjoy it today :)

> Cynner - Gone to look for a towel, before this coke dries.
>


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Czar Eggbert
Ruler, Dark Side of the Moon.
homepage: http:\\www.creighton.edu\~czregbrt
mailto:czregbrt@*********.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality!? Is that some new game?"
-MDF
"I'll need morphine, lots of it, and a pistol."
-The English Patient
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 37
From: Rick St Jean <Platinum@*****.CA>
Subject: Re: Merlin (was re: IEs')
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 22:48:16 -0400
MC23 wrote:
>
> Scott Roberts once dared to write,
>
> >OTOH, as far as Merlin is concerned, I have it on relatively good authority
> >(Paul Hume) that Merlin (and the rest of the Arthurian mythos) is explained
> >in the FASA universe as a particularly long duration mana spike in early
> >England, and that Merlin is a *human* who apparently found some way to live
> >for a very long time. Yes, the Ambrose at the beginning of VR 2.0 is
> >indeed Merlin Ambrosius.
>
> Hmmm, I want to believe that there can be non Elven immortals
> besides the great dragons but something tells me FASA will never outright
> say so. sigh.
> Anyway, this concept of Merlin still running around can give a new
> twist to the Shadowrun universe. Pondering this made me ponder a game
> where Damien Knight was the Pendragon (original or otherwise). I like the
> concept but it sounds too optimistic for my game.
>
actually i think he is pinned up somewhere. Or maybe pulling strings
from behind the scenes. But wouldn't it be quite an adventure trying to
find out. Maybe the elves are hiding him.... or he will return with
atlantis.

Another rant from the library of
Platinum
Message no. 38
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Merlin (was: Re: IE's)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 11:24:32 +0100
| But I've never Read any Tolken... None at all! I keep meaning to
|read LotR but I never get the chance... But on that same note a SR player
|that has never read Gibson, now thats a shame.

I've never read Gibson....
(Never really got 'round to it...)


|<more OT>
| How many people have read the Wrinkel in Time series? I read it
|first when I was 10 and I still enjoy it today :)

Wrinkle in time?
Is that "A nick of time"?
Where a bloke gets trapped in a time loop and has to take a massive jolt of
evergy before he can escape, and then ends up bouncing through alternate
realities?
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Merlin (was: Re: IE's), you may also be interested in:

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