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Message no. 1
From: MC23 mc23@**********.com
Subject: [META] Ballot Result- Protest
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:56:07 -0400
Once upon a time, David Buehrer wrote;

>39 list members chose to express their opinion, 350+ did not. I'm
>assuming that the 39 list members who voted want a list t-shirt. I'm
>assuming that the majority of the 350+ members who did not vote do not
>want a list t-shirt or are indifferent.

If you want things to fit your world view fine. I'd rather find out
about what that really means.

>But the point is that everyone has had the opportunity to express their
>opinion in one form or another. If you're unhappy that you are in the
>minority that's fine. There's no law that says you have to be happy.
>But the process has been, and continues to be, fair. Please, do not
>try to shame the other members of the list for having a different
>opinion than you do. Please understand that at this point in time you
>are in the minority and that's just the way it is.

And is this your way into shaming the minority then?

-MC23, who is really being turned off by the way things are handled this
year-

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 2
From: David Buehrer dbuehrer@******.carl.org
Subject: [META] Ballot Result- Protest
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 08:20:15 -0600 (MDT)
MC23 wrote:
/
/ Once upon a time, David Buehrer wrote;
/
/ >39 list members chose to express their opinion, 350+ did not. I'm
/ >assuming that the 39 list members who voted want a list t-shirt. I'm
/ >assuming that the majority of the 350+ members who did not vote do not
/ >want a list t-shirt or are indifferent.
/
/ If you want things to fit your world view fine. I'd rather find out
/ about what that really means.

Okay. Everyone who feels that the process is being handled poorly or
unfairly, please email me privately. I will tally the results and simply
post to the list the number of emails that I got. MC23, I'll let you
decide how long unhappy list members have to contact me.

Maybe the goal of producing the 99 t-shirt in time for GenCon is
misguided <shrug>.

/ >But the point is that everyone has had the opportunity to express their
/ >opinion in one form or another. If you're unhappy that you are in the
/ >minority that's fine. There's no law that says you have to be happy.
/ >But the process has been, and continues to be, fair. Please, do not
/ >try to shame the other members of the list for having a different
/ >opinion than you do. Please understand that at this point in time you
/ >are in the minority and that's just the way it is.
/
/ And is this your way into shaming the minority then?

As I'm participating in this debate I am trying to communicate with a calm
and reasoning voice. It is was not my intention to shame the minority. It
was my intention to point out that there has always been a minority, there
is a minority, and there will always be a minority, anytime a group is
asked to make a decision. And that if you want to be part of any group
that you have to accept the fact that at some point in time you will be in
the minority. I guess I was asking, in a round about way, that those who
appear to be in the minority as far as the 99 t-shirt goes to please accept
the decision of the majority. If you or any other member of the list feel
that my post(s) was shaming, than I apologize.

And having said that, it does come to mind that just because a person
appears to be in the minority that doesn't mean that they have to
meekly accept the voice of the majority. I do not mean to imply that
those in disagreement should shuffle off quietly to the corner. If you
are in disagreement I fully respect your right to voice your
disagreement. However, please let us work hard to keep the debate calm
(as calm as debates can be :-/ and please respect everyone's opinion as
you would your own.

-David B.
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
ShadowRN GridSec
The ShadowRN FAQ
http://shadowrun.html.com/hlair/BuildHtmlFAQ.php3?title=ShadowRN&faqlistúqsrn
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 3
From: Tim Kerby drekhead@***.net
Subject: [META] Ballot Result- Protest
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 10:42:34 -0400
On 7 Apr 99, at 8:20, David Buehrer wrote:

> Okay. Everyone who feels that the process is being handled poorly or
> unfairly, please email me privately. I will tally the results and simply
> post to the list the number of emails that I got. MC23, I'll let you
> decide how long unhappy list members have to contact me.

Should be in your box now.

> Maybe the goal of producing the 99 t-shirt in time for GenCon is
> misguided <shrug>.

Why? We didn't start last year until June and got it done.

> As I'm participating in this debate I am trying to communicate with a calm
> and reasoning voice. It is was not my intention to shame the minority.
> It was my intention to point out that there has always been a minority,
> there is a minority, and there will always be a minority, anytime a group
> is asked to make a decision. And that if you want to be part of any group
> that you have to accept the fact that at some point in time you will be in
> the minority. I guess I was asking, in a round about way, that those who
> appear to be in the minority as far as the 99 t-shirt goes to please
> accept the decision of the majority. If you or any other member of the
> list feel that my post(s) was shaming, than I apologize.

Don't apologize. Your right. This goes back to the maturity I was
speaking of previously (and I am not singling out any one here....)

> And having said that, it does come to mind that just because a person
> appears to be in the minority that doesn't mean that they have to meekly
> accept the voice of the majority. I do not mean to imply that those in
> disagreement should shuffle off quietly to the corner. If you are in
> disagreement I fully respect your right to voice your disagreement.
> However, please let us work hard to keep the debate calm (as calm as
> debates can be :-/ and please respect everyone's opinion as you would your
> own.

However, this I disagree with. When we do finally get all this
straightened out and are doing a final shirt vote (one that means
something), I do not want to hear a peep from anyone on either side
of the fence. If you like the shirt that wins, buy it. If you don't
like it, keep your money. And shut up. Both of you.

Until then, though, you are right. Friendly debate about things is
the way to go. Especially since I don't think we have resolved
anything, vote or no.

--

================================================================ - Tim Kerby -
drekhead@***.net - ICQ-UIN 2883757 -
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity;
and I'm not sure about the the universe." -Albert Einstein
Message no. 4
From: MC23 mc23@**********.com
Subject: [META] Ballot Result- Protest
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 23:37:50 -0400
Once upon a time, David Buehrer wrote;

>As I'm participating in this debate I am trying to communicate with a calm
>and reasoning voice. It is was not my intention to shame the minority.
...
>If you or any other member of the list feel
>that my post(s) was shaming, than I apologize.

I didn't believe you meant harm but I wanted to warn you how you
presented yourself.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 5
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: [META] Ballot Result- Protest
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 21:56:53 -0500
On Wed, 7 Apr 1999 08:20:15 -0600 (MDT) David Buehrer
<dbuehrer@******.carl.org> writes:
<SNIP>
>Maybe the goal of producing the 99 t-shirt in time for GenCon is
>misguided <shrug>.
<SNIP>

I think that goal just puts the work at a busy time. A lot of list
members *i'm guessing) are students and have school now and during most
of the shirt creation process. I don't know about Ausie school-goers,
but, AFAIK, European students are in school to about mid-July.

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel)
WARNING: Virus found: Win.com
Disinfect? (Y/N)

___________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 6
From: A Halliwell u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk
Subject: [META] Ballot Result- Protest
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 12:29:27 +0100 (BST)
And verily, did dghost@****.com hastily scribble thusly...
|I think that goal just puts the work at a busy time. A lot of list
|members *i'm guessing) are students and have school now and during most
|of the shirt creation process. I don't know about Ausie school-goers,
|but, AFAIK, European students are in school to about mid-July.

Whereas British ones tend to get a LOT of free time after about Mid-may.
(I talking students here, not pupils BTW)

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 7
From: David Buehrer dbuehrer@******.carl.org
Subject: [META] Ballot Result- Protest
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 07:52:48 -0600 (MDT)
MC23 wrote:
/
/ Once upon a time, David Buehrer wrote;
/
/ >As I'm participating in this debate I am trying to communicate with a calm
/ >and reasoning voice. It is was not my intention to shame the minority.
/ ...
/ >If you or any other member of the list feel
/ >that my post(s) was shaming, than I apologize.
/
/ I didn't believe you meant harm but I wanted to warn you how you
/ presented yourself.

And it was much appreciated. With regards to email I know how easy it
is for something to come across the wrong way and do my darndest to
avoid inflamatory or provocative statements when composing posts. But
despite that they still slip through (hey, I'm only human :) Thank you
for letting me know that I wasn't coming across well. It gave me an
opportunity to try again.

-David B.
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
ShadowRN GridSec
The ShadowRN FAQ
http://shadowrun.html.com/hlair/BuildHtmlFAQ.php3?title=ShadowRN&faqlistúqsrn
--
mailto:dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 8
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: [META] Ballot Result- Protest
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 20:46:51 -0500
On Fri, 9 Apr 1999 12:29:27 +0100 (BST) A Halliwell
<u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk> writes:
<SNIP>
>Whereas British ones tend to get a LOT of free time after about Mid-may.
>(I talking students here, not pupils BTW)

What's the difference?

--
D. Ghost

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
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Message no. 9
From: Allen Versfeld moe@*******.com
Subject: [META] Ballot Result- Protest
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:15:25 +0200
dghost@****.com wrote:
>
> On Fri, 9 Apr 1999 12:29:27 +0100 (BST) A Halliwell
> <u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk> writes:
> <SNIP>
> >Whereas British ones tend to get a LOT of free time after about Mid-may.
> >(I talking students here, not pupils BTW)
>
> What's the difference?

I'm guessing (based on South African usage of the terms) that 'student'
refers to those at University, Technikon, Technical college, etc and
that 'pupil' refers to those at school.


>
> --
> D. Ghost
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
> or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]


--
Allen Versfeld
moe@*******.com
Wandata
Message no. 10
From: Starrngr@***.com Starrngr@***.com
Subject: [META] Ballot Result- Protest
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 03:42:49 EDT
In a message dated 4/14/99 12:15:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time, moe@*******.com
writes:

> > What's the difference?
>
> I'm guessing (based on South African usage of the terms) that 'student'
> refers to those at University, Technikon, Technical college, etc and
> that 'pupil' refers to those at school.

Or perhaps he means something COMPLETELY different alltogether. in this case
he could be refering to Students as in those who attend school, but pupils as
in those things in the center of your eye that you use to watch girls in
short summer dresses.
Message no. 11
From: Allen Versfeld moe@*******.com
Subject: [META] Ballot Result- Protest
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:52:00 +0200
Starrngr@***.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 4/14/99 12:15:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time, moe@*******.com
> writes:
>
> > > What's the difference?
> >
> > I'm guessing (based on South African usage of the terms) that 'student'
> > refers to those at University, Technikon, Technical college, etc and
> > that 'pupil' refers to those at school.
>
> Or perhaps he means something COMPLETELY different alltogether. in this case
> he could be refering to Students as in those who attend school, but pupils as
> in those things in the center of your eye that you use to watch girls in
> short summer dresses.

Aaah, those girls! Aaah, those summer dresses! Aaaah, those girl
students in summer dresses!

--
Allen Versfeld
moe@*******.com
Wandata
Message no. 12
From: A Halliwell u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk
Subject: [META] Ballot Result- Protest
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:47:18 +0100 (BST)
And verily, did dghost@****.com hastily scribble thusly...
|
|On Fri, 9 Apr 1999 12:29:27 +0100 (BST) A Halliwell
|<u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk> writes:
|<SNIP>
|>Whereas British ones tend to get a LOT of free time after about Mid-may.
|>(I talking students here, not pupils BTW)
|
|What's the difference?

Pupils don't have any choice. They legally HAVE to go to school.
:)

And pupils don't usually finish school for the summer until July.
Students tend to have their exams in May, and can then laze about doing
nothing until September or October.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 13
From: A Halliwell u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk
Subject: [META] Ballot Result- Protest
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:48:20 +0100 (BST)
And verily, did Allen Versfeld hastily scribble thusly...
|I'm guessing (based on South African usage of the terms) that 'student'
|refers to those at University, Technikon, Technical college, etc and
|that 'pupil' refers to those at school.

Correct!

Get that man a beer....

:)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 14
From: A Halliwell u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk
Subject: [META] Ballot Result- Protest
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:49:59 +0100 (BST)
And verily, did Allen Versfeld hastily scribble thusly...
|Aaah, those girls! Aaah, those summer dresses! Aaaah, those girl
|students in summer dresses!

Aye, there were a few of them about last week, in the nice, warm, spring
sunshine...

Of course, yesterday, it snowed, which put a stop to that...

:(
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |

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