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Message no. 1
From: Fahnuir All Aidur <FAHNUIR@******.BITNET>
Subject: Metaplanes
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 18:13:36 PRT
I'm having a problem with one of my players. He says that he wants to visit t
he metaplane of death (he insists that he needs to talk to a dead friend in ord
er to get some information about his Ex-wife ant queen, but i'm having a proble
m with the plot.

1st- As long as i remember (i don't have the grimoire with me here...), there h
ave only been discovered the metaplanes corresponding to each of the nature and
insect spirits and the 4 hermetic metaplanes.

2nd- What would he find in that metaplane (all those guys that he killed.... hu
mmm... nice... *grin*)

3rd
My bigest problem is if that metaplane exists (or if it is possible for that
metaplane to exist. IMHO, i think that such a metaplane could exist, as could a
metaplane of life, but i would like to hear the opinion of the ppl of this lis
t.

Also, i was thinking in sending them to the past (or future) using metaplanes
or a weird Free Spirit, or sending them to a metaplane of horror (like Ravenl
of of AD**), but i'm not sure of how far i would bend the rules.


Also... I need rules for wicca magic for the adventure i'm planing to create f
or them. Anyone knows of published rules, house rules, unofficial rules from ma
gazines, anything ????

Thanx...
Fahnuir All Aidur
Message no. 2
From: The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Metaplanes
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 19:02:20 -0600
>1st- As long as i remember (i don't have the grimoire with me here...), there h
>ave only been discovered the metaplanes corresponding to each of the nature and
>insect spirits and the 4 hermetic metaplanes.

What lies beyond death has always been a mystery - and I am of the
opinion that it should remain so in Shadowrun. Communication with the
dead doesn't require traveling to a death metaplane - ask any medium.

In fact, given that magic is real in Shadowrun coupled with the lack of
ressurection type spells could mean that many mediums read as mundane
but are looked upon as frauds or small-timers in the magic scene. This
PC may ask around about soothsayers only to be told repeatedly "you don't
want to deal with them - they're just charlatans" making it difficult to
find one who will do the job. An excellent role-playing opportunity.

>2nd- What would he find in that metaplane (all those guys that he killed.... hu
>mmm... nice... *grin*)

>My bigest problem is if that metaplane exists (or if it is possible for that
>metaplane to exist. IMHO, i think that such a metaplane could exist, as could a
> metaplane of life, but i would like to hear the opinion of the ppl of this lis

Well, it is possible, depending on how you define some of the grayer shades
of the Shadowrun background. Death can be considered as much an essential
force of nature as the trees, water, and other things

>Also, i was thinking in sending them to the past (or future) using metaplanes
>or a weird Free Spirit, or sending them to a metaplane of horror (like Ravenl

This falls outside the bounds of vanilla Shadowrun but fits into many
other sci-fi themes, and offers some interesting campaign plots. Do a lot
of thinking beforehand though, to work out the consequence of what the PCs
see and do.

>of of AD**), but i'm not sure of how far i would bend the rules.

Go ahead and say AD&D. It's not like that Hastur guy, you know, Hastur the
Unspeakable, where you say his name three times and he eats you. :)

>Also... I need rules for wicca magic for the adventure i'm planing to create f
>or them. Anyone knows of published rules, house rules, unofficial rules from ma
>gazines, anything ????

White Wolf published some gross voodoo rules some time back (gross as in
"rules rape"); other have worked up other concoctions, such as Todd
Montgomery's Zombie rules, which are featured in NERPS. I think you can
do fine with the rules as is, and just dress the wicca dudes in apropriate
garments and equipment.



J Roberson
Message no. 3
From: "Jason Carter, Nightstalker" <CARTER@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Metaplanes
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 19:10:08 -0800
>> I'm having a problem with one of my players. He says that he wants to visit
>>the metaplane of death (he insists that he needs to talk to a dead friend in
>>order to get some information about his Ex-wife ant queen, but i'm having a
>>problem with the plot.

I don't want to know...

>>1st- As long as i remember (i don't have the grimoire with me here...), there
>>have only been discovered the metaplanes corresponding to each of the nature
>>and insect spirits and the 4 hermetic metaplanes.

Actually there are the Realms of Man, Waters, Sky, and Land, and the Realms of
Air, Earth, Water, and Sky. The Grimoire does not state that there are
metaplanes for the insect spirits but I would assume that there are or at least
one Realm of Insects.

There is most definately no metaplane of Death. The Dead are dead and cannot
be contacted from this reality (as far as the official rules go.).

>>2nd- What would he find in that metaplane (all those guys that he killed....
>>hummm... nice... *grin*)

A very distrubing experience...

>> Also, i was thinking in sending them to the past (or future) using
>>metaplanes or a weird Free Spirit, or sending them to a metaplane of horror
>>(like Ravenloft of AD**), but i'm not sure of how far i would bend the rules.

You don't have to break or even bend the rules if the experience doesn't really
send them into the past. The metaplane or free spirit could easily use a very
inticate form of say the entertainment spell to "send them back in time".
As for Ravenloft, anything could happen if they accidentally run across a
metaplane.

===============================================================================
See Ya in Shadows, "Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer."
Jason J Carter -- Deep Throat, The X-Files
The Nightstalker Carter@***.EDU
Message no. 4
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Metaplanes
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 1994 21:21:35 -0600
Ok, send them to their metaplane, and when they escape, they realize it
was all an elaborate simsense program that the agents of BadDude Inc.
were using to read their thoughts...


____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> To flame me, log on to ICBMnet and
\/ Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> target 44 09' 49" N x 93 59' 57"
W
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 1.0.1) GAT d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++
n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)
Message no. 5
From: steven mancini <mancinis@******.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Metaplanes
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 1994 01:16:49 EST
To quote Fahnuir All Aidur:
]
] 1st- As long as i remember (i don't have the grimoire with me here.), there
] have only been discovered the metaplanes corresponding to each of the nature
] and insect spirits and the 4 hermetic metaplanes.
]
The grimoire states in the section concerning the mechanics that
there are an infinite number of metaplanes and that the gm should feel
free to create which-ever planes suit his purpose.

] 2nd- What would he find in that metaplane (all those guys that he killed.
] nice... *grin*)
]
If this is a serious question- I would say no. If he succeeds, he
would find his quest. If not- nothing. Those venturing to a metaplane
for the true name of a free spirit do not return with more than that
name. *HOWEVER* if the various planes (Battle, fear,etc) happen to
manifest as people who he killed, ie someone he slew is the one
dishing out the damage on the Plane of Battle, that is just too bad
for him and wonderful for the therapist who gets his business for t
the next several years. :)

] 3rd
] My bigest problem is if that metaplane exists (or if it is possible for that
] metaplane to exist. IMHO, i think that such a metaplane could exist, as could
] a metaplane of life, but i would like to hear the opinion of the ppl of this
] list.

Not sure what your "biggest problem" is- the above statement, as I
received it, is not clear.

As for the metaplane of "life" you could tag that as the astral
plane which is only "solid" to living objects...
Or perhaps it could be similar to the "Well of Souls" from christian
mythology that, on the day it is emptied, the world comes to an
end...


]
] Also, i was thinking in sending them to the past (or future) using metaplanes
] or a weird Free Spirit, or sending them to a metaplane of horror
] (like Ravenloftof of AD**), but i'm not sure of how far i would bend the
] rules.

The past/future idea is an interesting one. It may work instead of
Life/Death quite easily- the go to the past, ask her what they need
to know (presuming she is not an Ant Queen yet I hope), and return.
[PS: THANK YOU! This little message just gave me an idea how to
scare the shit out of one of my players!!!]

] Also... I need rules for wicca magic for the adventure i'm planing to create
] for them. Anyone knows of published rules, house rules, unofficial rules from
] magazines, anything ????
]
You might try the USENET groups for info. As far as sr-related,
I have no idea.

Da Minotaur
Message no. 6
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Metaplanes
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 00:09:23 +0100
John W. Carter said on 12 Oct 95...

> Waitaminit.. I was under the impression that metamagic could not work on
> other metamagic (eg, masking & quickening) I'll look it up to know
> for sure, but am I wrong?

On a metaplane, anything and everything can work, depending on the reality
of the plane you're on. Take HB for an example: from one part to the next,
just about everything changes (isn't that a song? :). If the reality
allows metamagic, it will work. If the reality of the plane doesn't allow
magic at all, everyone's a mundane there.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
We are one / We are free / We are headed for obscurity
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-

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Message no. 7
From: Eve Forward <lutra@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Metaplanes
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 16:50:27 -0700
Yeah, I think my rigger should get the skill "Fly Metaplanes".
What we needed in HB was Build/Repair Metaplanes, actually.

-E
Message no. 8
From: Tim Kerby <tkerby@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Metaplanes
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 22:38:55 EDT
On Fri, 13 Oct 1995 00:09:23 +0100 Gurth wrote:

>If the reality of the plane doesn't allow magic at all, everyone's a mundane there.

If everyone is a mundane, how do they get back?
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____TIM KERBY____ |===================================================
tkerby@***.net |"Never relax. Your run may be over, but someone, somewhere,
drekhead@***.com | is just starting his and the target could be you."
_________________ |
Message no. 9
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Metaplanes
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 11:02:14 +0100
Tim Kerby said on 12 Oct 95...

> On Fri, 13 Oct 1995 00:09:23 +0100 Gurth wrote:
>
> >If the reality of the plane doesn't allow magic at all, everyone's a
> >mundane there.
>
> If everyone is a mundane, how do they get back?

By doing whatever it is that needs to be done on the metaplane. Most
planes have some or another test you have to complete, if you screw it up
you get sent to the next on, if you do it right you go to the Citadel
where you get your question answered (or whatever it was you went to the
plane for).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Anything but face reality
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-

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Message no. 10
From: Ulrike Ulrike@*************.com
Subject: Metaplanes
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 00:16:08 +0200
I joined the list yesterday and catched the discussion about Planescape
and metaplanes.

Now I just develope a Astral Quest setting (Initiation) for a Druid
(totem Sun). I have the Grimoire 2.01D, but not Awakening and also not
the London Sourcebook.

There are special rules for Celtic Druids in this situation?

It is mentioned that you must travel to the metaplane of your totem.
Urban totems are always on the Human Plane. There are also the three
other Nature Planes and the four Elementar Planes. Now, where does Sun
or Moon etc. fit in?

Can a mage travel to a totem metaplane (and really meet one) or can a
shaman chat with another totem, if s/he wants? I'm simply not sure how
to interpret the sourcebook.

I appreciate any comment, tip or suggestion to this topic.

~Ulrike
___
Ulrike@*************.com
http://www.dragonlibrary.com
Message no. 11
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Metaplanes
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:43:03 EDT
In a message dated 4/14/99 5:17:17 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
Ulrike@*************.com writes:

> I joined the list yesterday and catched the discussion about Planescape
> and metaplanes.

Ew...a newbie to the list and such a fun topic to start out with..I'm SOOO
Sorry ;-P

> Now I just develope a Astral Quest setting (Initiation) for a Druid
> (totem Sun). I have the Grimoire 2.01D, but not Awakening and also not
> the London Sourcebook.
> There are special rules for Celtic Druids in this situation?

Sort of yes, but they are all optional really.

> It is mentioned that you must travel to the metaplane of your totem.
> Urban totems are always on the Human Plane. There are also the three
> other Nature Planes and the four Elementar Planes. Now, where does Sun
> or Moon etc. fit in?

Nature. Sun and Moon are aspects of a more abstract nature, and their
"domains" overlap where appropriate. For instance, "Sun" would be
anywhere
that sunlight reaches. Thus it could be approached from any number of
different places. Moon is kind of the same way, but could probably be
restricted to only a plane/orientation or two.

> Can a mage travel to a totem metaplane (and really meet one) or can a
> shaman chat with another totem, if s/he wants? I'm simply not sure how
> to interpret the sourcebook.

I would honestly have to say "yes" to both of these parts. As per the rules,
an initiated magician of any tradition can travel to any metaplane they
choose to. Theoretically, it would be possible therefore to travel to Nature
(Land) as a Hermetic Magician and speak to a Mountain oriented power about
insights as to a new "earth based magic".

> I appreciate any comment, tip or suggestion to this topic.

Good Luck?

-K
Message no. 12
From: Jeremy DeVore jmortir@******.net
Subject: Metaplanes
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:07:10 -0500
>Can a mage travel to a totem metaplane (and really meet one) or can a
shaman chat with another totem, if s/he wants? I'm >simply not sure how to
interpret the sourcebook.
>
>I appreciate any comment, tip or suggestion to this topic.
>
> ~Ulrike

Ahhhhh... Now this reminds me of my present project (that I am having to
start over because my computer crashed and deleted EVERYTHING... but I am
not bitter...). It's a pretty damned ambitious project and I haven't had
much time to work on it and I am about to start GMing it very soon so I had
better get jumping or brainstorming so I can adlib it as I go. Essentially I
am going to be adapting the old Wizards of the Coast sourcebook Primal Order
to Shadowrun. Primal Order has a lot of interesting ideas but they just
don't fit what I wanting to do with my campaign, so I am gonna be making up
a whole lot as I go. For those who don't know Primal Order is a sourcebook
about gods and goddesses. And as the mana levels come back I am gonna have a
few gods who stayed on earth reawaken from their mundane lives (sorta like
Gentle from Clive Barker's Imajica). Nothing dramatic the mana levels are
just returning, but they have a few perks. Different dimensions will also be
very important, because the campaign happens to revolve around the
characters dimension hopping and one of the characters (each player will
have three characters - a mage, a decker, and then a miscellaneous third -
so that no one will be left out during an adventure) becoming a god (the one
that they take the most interest in roleplay the best). I have already told
them all that this is going to be a very dangerous campaign they can never
know exactly what they'll find in another dimension so don't get attached to
their characters. I am gonna have so many details I am going to have to
flesh out so I am sorry if I seem a little sketchy there.

I'll answer any questions if ya'll have any. And I'll be back a little later
with details.

Later

J

ICQ# 27381095
http://www.shreve.net/~jmortir/AWINS

"Tis a nobler thing I... Awww screw it! BYE!"
Message no. 13
From: A Halliwell u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk
Subject: Metaplanes
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:30:40 +0100 (BST)
And verily, did Jeremy DeVore hastily scribble thusly...
|
|>Can a mage travel to a totem metaplane (and really meet one) or can a
|shaman chat with another totem, if s/he wants? I'm >simply not sure how to
|interpret the sourcebook.
|>
| >I appreciate any comment, tip or suggestion to this topic.
|>
|> ~Ulrike
|
|Ahhhhh... Now this reminds me of my present project (that I am having to
|start over because my computer crashed and deleted EVERYTHING... but I am
|not bitter...).

nnnnnnnnnnggghhhh... Muuuuuusssssst, ssstop my self..... MUSTN'T MENTION
MICROSHITE!!!!!! Damn!

:)

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 14
From: Mongoose m0ng005e@*********.com
Subject: Metaplanes
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 05:37:40 -0500
:Now I just develope a Astral Quest setting (Initiation) for a Druid
:(totem Sun). I have the Grimoire 2.01D, but not Awakening and also not
:the London Sourcebook.
:
:There are special rules for Celtic Druids in this situation?
:
:It is mentioned that you must travel to the metaplane of your totem.
:Urban totems are always on the Human Plane. There are also the three
:other Nature Planes and the four Elementar Planes. Now, where does Sun
:or Moon etc. fit in?


They don't have their own place, AFAIK, at least not one that metahumans
know of. There are versions of the sun and moon in most metaplaces, I
think. I'd have the Druid do a quest tot the plane appropriate for the
domain his home circle is in, or maybe whatever circle he is doing the quest
in. (And yes, I'd say he must do it in a druidic circle). That would
(99.9%) make it a quest to some metaplane of the land, which is what you'd
expect for a druidic initiation.

Mongoose
Message no. 15
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Nivek Sregor)
Subject: metaplanes
Date: Sat Sep 1 21:15:01 2001
Is there a metaplane that represents the matrix?
--

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Message no. 16
From: shadowrn@*********.com (M.S. "Herc" Bobroff)
Subject: metaplanes
Date: Sun Sep 2 02:20:01 2001
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nivek Sregor" <thedarkmessiah@*******.com>


> Is there a metaplane that represents the matrix?

Yes ... though not directly ... if your GM allows it then the Matrix
would be a sub-domain of the Metaplane of Man.

-Mike B.

Further Reading

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