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Message no. 1
From: Ulrike Ulrike@*************.com
Subject: Metaplanes #2
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 22:43:21 +0200
First, thank you for your answers. The additional input is a great help.

Now, unfortunately I find me with more and more questions.

1) In my Grimoire 2.01D the Questlevel for a True Name is the Spirit
Energy at one place and the Force of the Free Spirit at another. What's
correct? (4 or 11 is quite different)

2) A first group goes on the above Quest. Another group chases the
first to prevent their success. What's the quest level of the second
group? BTW, I think the Free Spirit in question can also try to
intercept them, can't he?


~Ulrike
___
Ulrike@*************.com
http://www.dragonlibrary.com
Message no. 2
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Metaplanes #2
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 23:03:04 EDT
In a message dated 4/17/99 3:44:29 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
Ulrike@*************.com writes:

> In my Grimoire 2.01D the Questlevel for a True Name is the Spirit
> Energy at one place and the Force of the Free Spirit at another. What's
> correct? (4 or 11 is quite different)

IIRC, the target is the beings Force + Energy actually. Don't quote me on
that one though, because I know we don't play it that way. We usually have
it as the Force, with Energy being a threshold that must be superceded.

> 2) A first group goes on the above Quest. Another group chases the
> first to prevent their success. What's the quest level of the second
> group? BTW, I think the Free Spirit in question can also try to
> intercept them, can't he?

The second group has the same quest number as the first, and technically it
might be dealt out on a "Metaplace of Combat". As for the Free Spirit
intercepting...technically, yes the spirit should probably have a chance to
intercept. In our games, you get to that Citadel, and the spirit doesn't
want you having/succeeding then we (ie; this is a House Rule) have a "combat"
quest right there in the Citadel, and the being gets' the power of "Personal
Domain" absolutely free within that particular place.

just some thoughts.

-K
Message no. 3
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Metaplanes #2
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 08:52:03 +0200
According to Ulrike, at 22:43 on 17 Apr 99, the word on
the street was...

> 1) In my Grimoire 2.01D the Questlevel for a True Name is the Spirit
> Energy at one place and the Force of the Free Spirit at another. What's
> correct? (4 or 11 is quite different)

The Spirit Energy, according to page 78 of the English edition of the
Grimoire, second edition. (The whole text about going on an astral quest
to find a free spirit's true name is only one paragraph in this book, and
it doesn't mention the spirit's Force at all.)

> 2) A first group goes on the above Quest. Another group chases the
> first to prevent their success. What's the quest level of the second
> group? BTW, I think the Free Spirit in question can also try to
> intercept them, can't he?

IMHO, no. First of all to do an astral quest, everyone needs to project to
the same metaplane _together_ (Grimoire, page 94). Not necessarily from
the same place in the physical world, but at least at the same time and
with the intention of going together. Thus, it would not be possible to
chase someone onto a metaplane. (Still, it happens in Harlequin's Back,
but that's not quite a "standard" astral quest, is it? :)

The spirit in question might be able to do this, if the group goes to the
spirit's native plane, but I'd leave this up to the GM to decide in the
process of making an interesting adventure. However, how or why would it
know someone is on this quest? You don't immediately know it if someone is
breaking into some public records office to find out your full name,
either... The spirit gets its chance when the group tries its "conjuring"
ritual against the spirit.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I will not take these things for granted.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 4
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: Metaplanes #2
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 14:09:04 -0500
On Sun, 18 Apr 1999 08:52:03 +0200 "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl> writes:
>According to Ulrike, at 22:43 on 17 Apr 99, the word on
>the street was...
>
>> 1) In my Grimoire 2.01D the Questlevel for a True Name is the Spirit
>> Energy at one place and the Force of the Free Spirit at another.
What's
>> correct? (4 or 11 is quite different)

>The Spirit Energy, according to page 78 of the English edition of the
>Grimoire, second edition. (The whole text about going on an astral quest

>to find a free spirit's true name is only one paragraph in this book,
and
>it doesn't mention the spirit's Force at all.)

I really hate basing things on the Spirit Energy since in fluxuates as
the spirit gains power. What the's Quest rating to find the True Name of
the spirit that *just* bumped up to a 20 Force? 0. I hope MitS will
cahnge this.

>> 2) A first group goes on the above Quest. Another group chases the
>> first to prevent their success. What's the quest level of the second
>> group? BTW, I think the Free Spirit in question can also try to
>> intercept them, can't he?

>IMHO, no. First of all to do an astral quest, everyone needs to project
to
>the same metaplane _together_ (Grimoire, page 94). Not necessarily from
>the same place in the physical world, but at least at the same time and
>with the intention of going together. Thus, it would not be possible to
>chase someone onto a metaplane. (Still, it happens in Harlequin's Back,
>but that's not quite a "standard" astral quest, is it? :)

There two seperate Quests. The first is the Quest for the True Name.
The second is a Quest to prevent the success of the first Quest. The
second Quest would have the same Quest Rating as the first and if both
Quests are successful, there would be an astral battle at the Citadel
before the first group of Questors can learn what they came for. All
IMO, of course. :)

>The spirit in question might be able to do this, if the group goes to
the
>spirit's native plane, but I'd leave this up to the GM to decide in the
>process of making an interesting adventure. However, how or why would it

>know someone is on this quest? You don't immediately know it if someone
is
>breaking into some public records office to find out your full name,
>either... The spirit gets its chance when the group tries its
"conjuring"
>ritual against the spirit.

I thought I read something about the Spirit having the option of meeting
the anyone Questing for their True Name at the Citadel ...

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel)
WARNING: Virus found: Win.com
Disinfect? (Y/N)

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Message no. 5
From: chimerae@***.ie chimerae@***.ie
Subject: Metaplanes #2
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 23:05:52 +0100
and thus did Ulrike speak on 17 Apr 99, at 22:43:

> 1) In my Grimoire 2.01D the Questlevel for a True Name is the Spirit
> Energy at one place and the Force of the Free Spirit at another. What's
> correct? (4 or 11 is quite different)

In the section specifically dealing with true names it says Spirit
Energy. Personally I prefer to use Force as mentioned in the
overview of actions possible in the Metaplanes.
My main reason being that the Force of a spirit is more constant
than the Spirit Energy and using the Force prevents runners from
getting their hands easily on a True Name just after the Spirit
decided to increase it's Force.

> 2) A first group goes on the above Quest. Another group chases the
> first to prevent their success. What's the quest level of the second
> group? BTW, I think the Free Spirit in question can also try to
> intercept them, can't he?

Since the books doesn't deal with these things, you'll have to settle
for my opinion :).
2a. There are a number of options possible.
- You could not allow it. The rules state that mages can only work
together if they start at the same time. Likewise that works the
other way around if you want to obstruct some one.
- You could have the opposing party make a quest at the same
rating (of course they first need to know which metaplane to go to)
and if they manage to complete it before the first party is finished,
they find the trail and manage to intercept them and have a grande
battle at the citadel (or where ever you want).

- You could have the opposing party make a quest for the True
Name, but instead of receiving the name at the end, they have the
option to hide it, like astral concealment (p. 97), which forces the
first party to perform two quests to find the True Name. Alternatively
you could increase the difficulty of the quest for the first party at the
time that the second party completes their quest by the highest
level of initiation in that group. Again this assumes that the second
group finishes their quest before the first. If they don't, the
obstruction attempt has failed despite the fact that they might
complete the quest successfully.

2b. I always held the opinion that the quest itself consisted of the
difficulties thrown up by the Free Spirit, so I would say no. That
would not stop the spirit with interfering with the real world to prevent
the initiates from completing the quest. Since quests to the
Metaplanes tend to take a long time, this should pose quite some
challenges to the remaining defenders.

Hope this helps,


Martin Steffens
chimerae@***.ie
Message no. 6
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Metaplanes #2
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:36:01 +0200
According to dghost@****.com, at 14:09 on 18 Apr 99, the word on
the street was...

> I really hate basing things on the Spirit Energy since in fluxuates as
> the spirit gains power. What the's Quest rating to find the True Name of
> the spirit that *just* bumped up to a 20 Force? 0. I hope MitS will
> cahnge this.

My idea, too. Using the Force would be much better because the Spirit
Energy is only an indirect (and inaccurate) measure of the spirit's power.
A little house rule fixes it easily enough, though.

> There two seperate Quests. The first is the Quest for the True Name.
> The second is a Quest to prevent the success of the first Quest. The
> second Quest would have the same Quest Rating as the first and if both
> Quests are successful, there would be an astral battle at the Citadel
> before the first group of Questors can learn what they came for. All
> IMO, of course. :)

That makes sense, yes. This would also explain the ending of Harley's
Back, when the PCs arrive back at the bridge (= the Citadel).

> I thought I read something about the Spirit having the option of meeting
> the anyone Questing for their True Name at the Citadel ...

It has? I can't find anything about this in the Grimoire's section about
free spirits.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I will not take these things for granted.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 7
From: TalonMail@***.com TalonMail@***.com
Subject: Metaplanes #2
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:38:31 EDT
dghost@****.com, wrote:
> I really hate basing things on the Spirit Energy since in fluxuates as
> the spirit gains power. What the's Quest rating to find the True Name of
> the spirit that *just* bumped up to a 20 Force? 0. I hope MitS will
> cahnge this.

It does. The Quest Rating is (Spirit Energy + Force) in MITS.

Steve K.

Kenson's Cranial Collection
http://members.aol.com/talonmail
Message no. 8
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Metaplanes #2
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:56:21 EDT
In a message dated 4/18/1999 1:13:11 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
chimerae@***.ie writes:

> > 2) A first group goes on the above Quest. Another group chases the
> > first to prevent their success. What's the quest level of the second
> > group? BTW, I think the Free Spirit in question can also try to
> > intercept them, can't he?
>
> Since the books doesn't deal with these things, you'll have to settle
> for my opinion :).
> 2a. There are a number of options possible.
> - You could not allow it. The rules state that mages can only work
> together if they start at the same time. Likewise that works the
> other way around if you want to obstruct some one.

Ah, but in your own paraphrasing of the book, you have come to the crux of
the situation. If they are *working together*. In this case/instance, they
are not.

> - You could have the opposing party make a quest at the same
> rating (of course they first need to know which metaplane to go to)
> and if they manage to complete it before the first party is finished,
> they find the trail and manage to intercept them and have a grande
> battle at the citadel (or where ever you want).

We like this one, it's happened about three times now.

-K
Message no. 9
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: Metaplanes #2
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 01:17:49 -0500
On Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:36:01 +0200 "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl> writes:
>According to dghost@****.com, at 14:09 on 18 Apr 99, the word on
>the street was...
<SNIP>
>> I thought I read something about the Spirit having the option of
meeting
>> the anyone Questing for their True Name at the Citadel ...

>It has? I can't find anything about this in the Grimoire's section about

>free spirits.

Yeah, I skimmed Grimie before sending that and couldn't find anything.
Perhaps it's in Awakenings? (or perhaps it was another halucination ;)

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel)
Free IQ test: Press Ctrl+Alt+Delete

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Message no. 10
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: Metaplanes #2
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 01:16:02 -0500
On Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:38:31 EDT TalonMail@***.com writes:
>dghost@****.com, wrote:
>> I really hate basing things on the Spirit Energy since in fluxuates as
>> the spirit gains power. What the's Quest rating to find the True Name
of
>> the spirit that *just* bumped up to a 20 Force? 0. I hope MitS will
>> cahnge this.

>It does. The Quest Rating is (Spirit Energy + Force) in MITS.

That's better but it still means that a spirit is more vulnerable after
increasing its Force. Is there an explanation (conceptually, not
rules-wise) for this?

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel)
Free IQ test: Press Ctrl+Alt+Delete

___________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 11
From: TalonMail@***.com TalonMail@***.com
Subject: Metaplanes #2
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 10:39:39 EDT
dghost@****.com writes:
>On Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:38:31 EDT TalonMail@***.com writes:
>>It does. The Quest Rating is (Spirit Energy + Force) in MITS.
>
>That's better but it still means that a spirit is more vulnerable after
>increasing its Force. Is there an explanation (conceptually, not
>rules-wise) for this?

Sure. Spirit Energy represents a freebie's power in the material world, which
is built up by gaining and spending Karma. The spirit may choose to sacrifice
this accumulated "physical" power in order to increase its "spiritual"
power
(Force), to stretch its limits and grow. However, this process is extremely
taxing and leaves the spirit's power somewhat debilitated, forcing it to
gather spirit energy anew. I think of a spirit increasing its Force using
Spirit Energy as essentially rebuilding itself, like a caterpillar emerging
from a chrysalis. No doubt freebies planning on increasing their Force take
some precautions to protect themselves in this time of weakness. They're also
likely to be hungry for Karma immediately afterward, so they can try and get
their Spirit Energy back to a more acceptable level.

Steve

Kenson's Cranial Collection
http://members.aol.com/talonmail
Message no. 12
From: chimerae@***.ie chimerae@***.ie
Subject: Metaplanes #2
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 23:41:06 +0100
and thus did Ereskanti@***.com speak on 19 Apr 99, at 17:56:

> In a message dated 4/18/1999 1:13:11 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
> chimerae@***.ie writes:

> > Since the books doesn't deal with these things, you'll have to settle
> > for my opinion :). 2a. There are a number of options possible. - You
> > could not allow it. The rules state that mages can only work together
> > if they start at the same time. Likewise that works the other way
> > around if you want to obstruct some one.
>
> Ah, but in your own paraphrasing of the book, you have come to the crux of
> the situation. If they are *working together*. In this case/instance,
> they are not.

Well personally I was inclined to say Nope, but then I started
thinking about the dramatic possibilities of two teams of exhausted
mages arriving at the citadel. Couldn't resist making up some rules
to accommodate the famous battle of the severely wounded at the
end of a story :).

> > - You could have the opposing party make a quest at the same
> > rating (of course they first need to know which metaplane to go to) and
> > if they manage to complete it before the first party is finished, they
> > find the trail and manage to intercept them and have a grande battle at
> > the citadel (or where ever you want).
>
> We like this one, it's happened about three times now.

I'm not so sure if it is still such a good idea if the quest now has a
difficulty of force + energy. It quickly leads to impossible scenarios
where both teams are likely to fail (unless they changed more rules
in that part). I see quests for a true name as a rarity in the best
case anyway.
The spirit's unwillingness makes it a double edged sword in the
hands of powerhungry runners. The one time we used these rules
was to get a free spirit of the players' backs.



Martin Steffens
chimerae@***.ie
Message no. 13
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Metaplanes #2
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 19:13:38 -0700 (PDT)
> Sure. Spirit Energy represents a freebie's power in the material
world, which is built up by gaining and spending Karma. The spirit may
choose to sacrifice this accumulated "physical" power in order to
increase its "spiritual" power (Force), to stretch its limits and grow.
However, this process is extremely taxing and leaves the spirit's power
somewhat debilitated, forcing it to gather spirit energy anew.
> Steve

Lordy!

For once, my supposition (which I now regret I didn't post) would have
been quite nearly canonically correct!!

Just a word about this as a GM. Now, I can't recall whether when a Free
Spirit increases its Force, it only uses the amount of Spirit Energy
required to boost its Force, or whether the Spirit Energy is
automatically reduced to 1. I suspect the former - but if it's the
latter, ignore this.

If it IS the former, though, one way to get around this 'weakness'
would be to power up, as it were. I can see a Free Spirit hanging
around, boosting up its Spirit Energy until it was about twice what it
needed in order to increase its Force. Then it boosts its Force and
only looses half its Spirit Energy. In other words, with this method,
to find the True Name of a fairly powerful (Force 5 or 6 or higher)
Free Spirit who was on the verge of boosting its Force rating would be
shockingly difficult - a rating 15 or 18 or higher quest. Once it
boosts its Force, it would somewhat easier, but still extremely tough -
rating 11 or 12 or more. And then it starts going up again.

That oughta scare off problem players who keep going around finding out
the True Names of your Free Spirits. And I can see most Free Spirits
doing something like that - really, it's just a protective measure.

*Doc' is absolutely, positively stumped for a sarcastic statement that
would not make him look more foolish than usual.

Damn.*
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
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