Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: kimgoyret@*****.es (Jong-Won Kim)
Subject: Microsoft/Bungie/Jordan Weisman to make Shadowrun game
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 11:31:16 -0600 (CST)
There's a SR game in the making and an online
petition:

http://invision.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic"81

http://www.petitiononline.com/shdrun03/petition.html

Originally posted by Lady Anaka (DSF)
---------------------------------
Posted: Dec 17 2003, 02:07 PM

Found this little tidbit in the January 2004 issue of
Game Informer magazine, page 28, under "Loose Talk:"

//Loose Talk has heard that Bungie is working on a
revival of Shadowrun (originally on the SNES) for the
Xbox. The Halo creator is said to be collaborating
closely with author Jordan Weisman.//

I'll note that I didn't find this myself, but was
pointed to the quote on another board I'm on. I don't
know squat about it, but I can't think of anyone
better to do the game than Bungie. Hot damn.
-------------------


Saludos,
Jong-Won Kim

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Información de Estados Unidos y América Latina, en Yahoo! Noticias.
Visítanos en http://noticias.espanol.yahoo.com
Message no. 2
From: frontendchaos@**********.com (Jim Montgomery)
Subject: Microsoft/Bungie/Jordan Weisman to make Shadowrun game
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 12:52:58 -0500
> There's a SR game in the making and an online
> petition:
>
> http://invision.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic"81
>
> http://www.petitiononline.com/shdrun03/petition.html

That petition is ludicrous.

Jim
Message no. 3
From: grimjack@******.com (Martin Little)
Subject: Microsoft/Bungie/Jordan Weisman to make Shadowrun game
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 12:58:18 -0500 (EST)
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003, Jim Montgomery wrote:

> > There's a SR game in the making and an online
> > petition:
> >
> > http://invision.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic"81
> >
> > http://www.petitiononline.com/shdrun03/petition.html
>
> That petition is ludicrous.
>
> Jim

Saying that about most things on petitiononline is redundant :)

../Martin
Message no. 4
From: bull@*********.com (Bull)
Subject: Microsoft/Bungie/Jordan Weisman to make Shadowrun game
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 18:18:27 -0500
At 12:31 PM 12/22/2003, Jong-Won Kim wrote:
>Found this little tidbit in the January 2004 issue of
>Game Informer magazine, page 28, under "Loose Talk:"

Snide comments aside, I can confirm this bit of info. I work at GameStop
and have the latest issue in my hands as I type, and that is indeed in there.

Course, there's been a Shadowrun game in the works before, so we'll see
what happens when it happens, ya know? :]

Plus, needless to say, that means that this will definatly be on the X-Box,
and possibly the computer. Which is cool :]

Bull
Message no. 5
From: me@******.net (Hexren)
Subject: Microsoft/Bungie/Jordan Weisman to make Shadowrun game
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 00:31:08 +0100
B> At 12:31 PM 12/22/2003, Jong-Won Kim wrote:
>>Found this little tidbit in the January 2004 issue of
>>Game Informer magazine, page 28, under "Loose Talk:"

B> Snide comments aside, I can confirm this bit of info. I work at GameStop
B> and have the latest issue in my hands as I type, and that is indeed in there.

B> Course, there's been a Shadowrun game in the works before, so we'll see
B> what happens when it happens, ya know? :]

B> Plus, needless to say, that means that this will definatly be on the X-Box,
B> and possibly the computer. Which is cool :]

B> Bull

---------------------------------------------

well that would be a reason to get said X-Box ;)
Message no. 6
From: davidb@****.imcprint.com (Graht)
Subject: Microsoft/Bungie/Jordan Weisman to make Shadowrun game
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 16:31:54 -0700
At 04:31 PM 12/22/2003, Hexren wrote:
>B> At 12:31 PM 12/22/2003, Jong-Won Kim wrote:
> >>Found this little tidbit in the January 2004 issue of
> >>Game Informer magazine, page 28, under "Loose Talk:"
>
>B> Snide comments aside, I can confirm this bit of info. I work at GameStop
>B> and have the latest issue in my hands as I type, and that is indeed in
>there.
>
>B> Course, there's been a Shadowrun game in the works before, so we'll see
>B> what happens when it happens, ya know? :]
>
>B> Plus, needless to say, that means that this will definatly be on the
>X-Box,
>B> and possibly the computer. Which is cool :]
>
>B> Bull
>
>---------------------------------------------
>
>well that would be a reason to get said X-Box ;)

Heh. I'm planning on getting an X-Box anyways. This just adds to it's
value for me :) Course, like Bull said, we've been down this road
before. But I'm still crossing my fingers.

FYI, if you want to play a reasonable facsimile, check out Deus Ex. It's
very Shadowrunny, and very very good.


--
To Life,
-Graht
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader II
http://www.graht.com
Message no. 7
From: bull@*********.com (Bull)
Subject: Microsoft/Bungie/Jordan Weisman to make Shadowrun game
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 18:45:01 -0500
At 06:31 PM 12/22/2003, Hexren wrote:

>well that would be a reason to get said X-Box ;)

<grin>

Along with Halo, Crimson Skies, Mechwarrior, Knights of the Old Republic,
as well as Halo 2, Fable, and Sudeki in March-ish. :]

Bull -- X-Box addict
Message no. 8
From: frontendchaos@**********.com (Jim Montgomery)
Subject: Microsoft/Bungie/Jordan Weisman to make Shadowrun game
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 18:57:59 -0500
> No, not really a good reason to do that. Irksome, though. (hopes for early PC
> release of the game)

Lots of good stuff seems to come out on PC in a timely fashion (like
KOTOR), so I have high hopes for a PC release too.

Jim
Message no. 9
From: valeuj@*****.navy.mil (Valeu, John W. EM3 (AS40 R-3))
Subject: Microsoft/Bungie/Jordan Weisman to make Shadowrun game
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 11:08:23 +1000
> > No, not really a good reason to do that. Irksome, though.
> (hopes for early PC
> > release of the game)
>
> Lots of good stuff seems to come out on PC in a timely fashion (like
> KOTOR), so I have high hopes for a PC release too.
>

True, but you can't return a PC game once you tire of it. Like I did with
KOTOR. Yes, I returned KOTOR. After getting all 3 endings (that includes
the super-secret ending), with full side quests done. I honestly expected
it to take longer to complete.

How's this for a game type: similar to Final Fantasy Tactics in that you can
gather missions and do jobs, but not all of them pertain to main goal...
Wait, that's just about every RPG released in the last 10 years...

Here's my view from over here. To truely have the feel of SR, it would have
to be a Tactical RPG, but then you wold lose multiplay. If you want
multiplay, more then likely it'll be an F/3rd-PS (first/3rd person shooter).
Actually....... Splinter Cell 2 is suppose to have online play. That would
be an idle SR gametype.
Message no. 10
From: trick_ster@*******.com (Niels Sønderborg)
Subject: Microsoft/Bungie/Jordan Weisman to make Shadowrun game
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 12:59:12 +0100
Would be nice with a Shadowrun Computer game for once. I lived and breathed
for Deus Ex when that came out, though I havent tried the sequel yet. I
heard it isnt an as big success as the first one and too much has changed.

This leads me to a question I have been willing to ask for a while now ...
What games on consule/pc and the like, would you all call shadowrun-ish or
at least have that cyberpunk feel. The only ones I can name is system shock
and Deus Ex.

_________________________________________________________________
Få alle de nye og sjove ikoner med MSN Messenger http://messenger.msn.dk
Message no. 11
From: cmd_jackryan@***.net (Phillip Gawlowski)
Subject: Microsoft/Bungie/Jordan Weisman to make Shadowrun game
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 14:38:00 +0100
On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 12:59:12 +0100, Niels Sønderborg
<trick_ster@*******.com> wrote:

> This leads me to a question I have been willing to ask for a while now
> ... What games on consule/pc and the like, would you all call
> shadowrun-ish or at least have that cyberpunk feel. The only ones I can
> name is system shock and Deus Ex.

Splinter Cell, I.G.I., Shadowrun for the SNES (Try an emulator, you can
get both on www.the-underdogs.org), Neuromancer, Hacker I + II.


--
Phillip Gawlowski
Bastard GameMaster From Hell (Der Meister) and General Idiot

"Anything worth shooting once is worth shooting twice."
- Col. Jeff Cooper, USMC (Ret.), regarding combat handgun training
Message no. 12
From: frontendchaos@**********.com (Jim Montgomery)
Subject: Microsoft/Bungie/Jordan Weisman to make Shadowrun game
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 09:38:43 -0500
> This leads me to a question I have been willing to ask for a while now
> ... What games on consule/pc and the like, would you all call
> shadowrun-ish or at least have that cyberpunk feel. The only ones I can
> name is system shock and Deus Ex.

I liked Anachronox, a PC game in the vein of Final Fantasy 7 but with
a more American feel to it. Some of the elements are too wacky (the
whole comic-book section) for SR, but the magic and tech concept,
getting out from under the mob, and the noir feel all come together
pretty strongly.

If you like games like FF7, Anachronox would be a good one to dredge
up from the discount bin if you can find it. It's a good game on its
own merits.

Also, and interesting PC game that kinda has a decker feel would be
Uplink, you can get a demo from http://www.introversion.co.uk/uplink/

Jim
Message no. 13
From: maxnoel_fr@*****.fr (Max Noel)
Subject: Microsoft/Bungie/Jordan Weisman to make Shadowrun game
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 16:42:46 +0100
Jim Montgomery wrote:

> Also, and interesting PC game that kinda has a decker feel would be
> Uplink, you can get a demo from http://www.introversion.co.uk/uplink/

I second that. It's a good game, although very few people have heard
of it.
But if you want the true "Decker/Matrix Run" feeling, you just have to
try Rez (Sega/UGA, PS2 and Dreamcast). Very hard to find because it
sold very poorly (which is a shame IMO), but excellent.

As for more "generic" SR-ish games, aside from what Phillip suggested
there's also Shadowrun for the Genesis (more respectful of the SR
rules/universe than the SNES version, but I find it quite boring),
Shadowrun for the Sega CD (good luck on finding that one: released in
Japan only, didn't sell very well, ridiculously high price on eBay
whenever it shows up and I've never even managed to obtain an ISO of it
-- if you happen to stumble on one, please let us know ;) ), Final
Fantasy 7, all five Metal Gear games (NES/MSX/GBC/PS1/PS2/PC)...
...and in some way, Max Payne 1 & 2 "feel" shadowrunny. Can't exactly
say why, though (perhaps the film noir ambience, or the fact that
bullet-time works the exact same way as wired reflexes). Besides,
they're two of the best games I've ever played, if only for their plot
and incredibly beautiful narrative style.

-- Wild_Cat
maxnoel_fr@*****.fr -- ICQ #85274019
"Look at you hacker... A pathetic creature of meat and bone, panting
and sweating as you run through my corridors... How can you challenge a
perfect, immortal machine?"
Message no. 14
From: shadowrn@********.com (Pugwhan)
Subject: Microsoft/Bungie/Jordan Weisman to make Shadowrun game
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 15:07:56 -0700
At 06:18 PM 12/22/2003 -0500, you wrote:

>Snide comments aside, I can confirm this bit of info. I work at GameStop
>and have the latest issue in my hands as I type, and that is indeed in there.
>
>Course, there's been a Shadowrun game in the works before, so we'll see
>what happens when it happens, ya know? :]
>
>Plus, needless to say, that means that this will definatly be on the
>X-Box, and possibly the computer. Which is cool :]
>
>Bull


Bad news for us PCrs. According to the lead programmer for the project
its only going to be on X-Box.
Message no. 15
From: crusader-x@*******.net (E.L.King)
Subject: Microsoft/Bungie/Jordan Weisman to make Shadowrun game
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 17:43:51 -0500
On Dec 23, 2003, at 5:07 PM, Pugwhan wrote:
> At 06:18 PM 12/22/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>> Snide comments aside, I can confirm this bit of info. I work at
>> GameStop and have the latest issue in my hands as I type, and that is
>> indeed in there.
>> Course, there's been a Shadowrun game in the works before, so we'll
>> see what happens when it happens, ya know? :]
>> Plus, needless to say, that means that this will definatly be on the
>> X-Box, and possibly the computer. Which is cool :]
>> Bull
> Bad news for us PCrs. According to the lead programmer for the
> project its only going to be on X-Box.

Not so bad news for us Mac'rs, the closest thing in my house to a pc IS
a XBox... :) For me a PC and a XBox serve the same purpose...

EK
Message no. 16
From: maxnoel_fr@*****.fr (Max Noel)
Subject: Microsoft/Bungie/Jordan Weisman to make Shadowrun game
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 00:05:57 +0100
E.L.King wrote:

> For me a PC and a XBox serve the same purpose...
>
> EK

You mean, running Linux? :p
Anyway, I was hesitating between upgrading my PC's video card (yeah,
I'm a multi-OS guy: Windows/Linux desktop, Mac laptop. I love my 12"
Powerbook) and buying an X-Box to play Deus Ex 2... Well, it seems that
my choice is made now.

-- Wild_Cat
maxnoel_fr@*****.fr -- ICQ #85274019
"Look at you hacker... A pathetic creature of meat and bone, panting
and sweating as you run through my corridors... How can you challenge a
perfect, immortal machine?"
Message no. 17
From: crusader-x@*******.net (E.L.King)
Subject: Microsoft/Bungie/Jordan Weisman to make Shadowrun game
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 19:04:32 -0500
On Dec 23, 2003, at 6:05 PM, Max Noel wrote:
> E.L.King wrote:
>> For me a PC and a XBox serve the same purpose...
>> EK
> You mean, running Linux? :p
> Anyway, I was hesitating between upgrading my PC's video card (yeah,
> I'm a multi-OS guy: Windows/Linux desktop, Mac laptop. I love my 12"
> Powerbook) and buying an X-Box to play Deus Ex 2... Well, it seems
> that my choice is made now.
> -- Wild_Cat
> maxnoel_fr@*****.fr -- ICQ #85274019

Nah.... That's what the 1400c I cobbled together from parts off of
eBay is for.... Don'tcha just love Yellow Dog... :D

But to be serious for just a moment, a PC is just a game machine for
me. I wouldn't do any sort of serious computing on one. So kudos for
making the new Shadowrun a XBox game, better graphics than on a PC
anyway...

EK
Message no. 18
From: zebulingod@*******.net (zebulingod)
Subject: Microsoft/Bungie/Jordan Weisman to make Shadowrun game
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 16:13:38 -0800
"E.L.King" <crusader-x@*******.net> wrote:
>
> But to be serious for just a moment, a PC is just a game machine for
> me. I wouldn't do any sort of serious computing on one. So kudos for
> making the new Shadowrun a XBox game, better graphics than on a PC
> anyway...
>
> EK
>

How do you figure that an XBox has better graphics than a PC? *boggle*

Zebulin
Message no. 19
From: valeuj@*****.navy.mil (Valeu, John W. EM3 (AS40 R-3))
Subject: Microsoft/Bungie/Jordan Weisman to make Shadowrun game
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 11:42:18 +1000
> > But to be serious for just a moment, a PC is just a game
> machine for
> > me. I wouldn't do any sort of serious computing on one.
> So kudos for
> > making the new Shadowrun a XBox game, better graphics than on a PC
> > anyway...
> >
> > EK
> >
>
> How do you figure that an XBox has better graphics than a PC? *boggle*
>

Personally, I wouldn't say better. More like equal. Of course, if you've
seen the Halo 2 movies and release that most of it is done with the game
engine and not specifically for cut scenes...

Before this breaks down anymore into a console skirmish, let's take a look
at the good points: Microsoft is getting of it's collective ass and finally
making a SR game. 2: It's being done with help from Bungle...err,
Bingle...uhh, Bungie. Bungie always had good stories to go with their
games. Marathon and Halo are prime examples.

It might even be that old SR game the MS has in storage that I read about
back in high school when they picked up FASA interactive. They did a story
on Mechwarror 3, Crimson Skies and a little blurb (and a couple of renders
of the main character) about an SR game. Shadowrun: Solitaire was what it
was called. I remember because you played a female assassin called
Solitaire but I don't remember what the story was about. The mag had about
2 or 3 pictures of her (just still renders, no action shots) and she wore
black, had black hair and had a big rifle. This was back in '96-'98.
Message no. 20
From: robertennew@*****.com.au (Robert Ennew)
Subject: Microsoft/Bungie/Jordan Weisman to make Shadowrun game
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 14:57:11 +1100 (EST)
--- Pugwhan <shadowrn@********.com> wrote: > At 06:18
PM 12/22/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>
> >Snide comments aside, I can confirm this bit of
> info. I work at GameStop
> >and have the latest issue in my hands as I type,
> and that is indeed in there.
> >
> >Course, there's been a Shadowrun game in the works
> before, so we'll see
> >what happens when it happens, ya know? :]
> >
> >Plus, needless to say, that means that this will
> definatly be on the
> >X-Box, and possibly the computer. Which is cool :]
> >
> >Bull
>
>
> Bad news for us PCrs. According to the lead
> programmer for the project
> its only going to be on X-Box.

Hah, Huh, Huh, Huh, Hah. Do what I do you bunch of
slackers, buy all the platforms/consoles so you can't
be caught out; Then you can stop your bitchin' &
whining ;)

GZ - "Be prepared, that's my motto". - Last Boy Scout

http://personals.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Personals
New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time.
Message no. 21
From: l-hansen@*****.tele.dk (Lars Wagner Hansen)
Subject: Microsoft/Bungie/Jordan Weisman to make Shadowrun game
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 20:02:16 +0100
From: "Niels Sønderborg" <trick_ster@*******.com>>
> This leads me to a question I have been willing to ask for a while now ...
> What games on consule/pc and the like, would you all call shadowrun-ish or
> at least have that cyberpunk feel. The only ones I can name is system
shock
> and Deus Ex.

Blade Runner, Max Payne, MDK, Fallout are the onse I could think of.

Lars
Message no. 22
From: biki@****.net (Stuart M. Willis)
Subject: Microsoft/Bungie/Jordan Weisman to make Shadowrun game
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 12:58:48 +1100
Howdy'all. Merry Christmas. :) I'm going to delurk for a moment. (Do
you know I have 81meg of ShadowRN archives sitting on my machine? Hmm)

>This leads me to a question I have been willing to ask for a while now ...
>What games on consule/pc and the like, would you all call shadowrun-ish or
>at least have that cyberpunk feel. The only ones I can name is system shock
>and Deus Ex.


The Rainbow Six series are very Shadowrun imnsho. They're about
stealth insertions into urban combat zones -- and that combat is
deadly. The near-future setting also has cyberpunkian overtones (with
the collapse of communism and the rise of various power groups.). A
Shadowrun mod for Raven Shield would be very cool :)

Splinter Cell, as others have mentioned.

Oni. A bungie game from about 3 years ag? Made by a separate team
from Halo and old to Take Two cause it wasn't that good. Great Bungie
gameplay but boring level design. They hired architects to design the
levels and they feel like real buildings but to make them play OK
they contrived stupid key puzzles.

Aliens v Predator. The marine levels I imagine would be what its like
to go against insect spirits :)

Fallout 1 & 2. Post-apocolyptic role playing. Very shadowrun in the
mixture of high-tec and low-tec and the 'Western' feel. The
gunslinger element of early SR has sadly been lost in 3rd Ed I think
:(

Bladerunner. Goes without saying really.

Marathon 1. Bungie's second FPS. Brilliant stuff. Great gameplay.
Claustrophobic interiors. Insane AIs. Its Shadowrunny cause of the
claustrophobic interiors and AIs. Certainly worth checking out the
Aleph One project and M1A1 (Marathon 1 for Aleph 1) to get a feel of
the original Halo (Halo is still Marathon 4 to must of us who grew up
playing Bungie games :))). source.bungie.org

Incidentally, I traced the Bungie+Shadowrun rumor to:

http://www.gamedreamz.com/index.cgi?m=stories&s=read&id9

Hmm. Project Phoenix was actually Myth 4 (before it was sold to Take
Two) and was a 'Siege Engine' Tactical Game (Halo was going to be
Myth 4 when they originally did the engine) Dunno why Shadowrun would
use that... also it uses the old Oni team. Which kinda makes sense.
The combat in Oni was *great* but the levels sucked.

Anyway. That's my 5c.

Stuart.


--
---
Wisdom can never be found in one sentence. But it can be found in my
blog, so read the damn thing!!

www.biki.net/blog/
Message no. 23
From: adamj@********.dumpshock.com (Adam Jury)
Subject: Microsoft/Bungie/Jordan Weisman to make Shadowrun game
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 09:11:37 -0500 (EST)
On Tue, 23 Dec 2003, Valeu, John W. EM3 (AS40 R-3) wrote:

> True, but you can't return a PC game once you tire of it. Like I did with
> KOTOR. Yes, I returned KOTOR. After getting all 3 endings (that includes
> the super-secret ending), with full side quests done. I honestly expected
> it to take longer to complete.

Assuming that you spent 30 hours playing the game [and to play both light
and dark side, I think it's closer to 40, but we'll be generous to your
gaming skills], and 60 bucks buying it, that's $2/hour. I don't know about
you, but I consider that pretty damned good value for my money, especially
given the quality of KOTOR.

Adam
Message no. 24
From: frontendchaos@**********.com (Jim Montgomery)
Subject: Microsoft/Bungie/Jordan Weisman to make Shadowrun game
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:35:47 -0500
>>True, but you can't return a PC game once you tire of it. Like I did with
<snip>
> Assuming that you spent 30 hours playing the game [and to play both light
> and dark side, I think it's closer to 40, but we'll be generous to your
> gaming skills], and 60 bucks buying it, that's $2/hour. I don't know about
> you, but I consider that pretty damned good value for my money, especially
> given the quality of KOTOR.

And if we're being honest here, you can probably get $8-10 for it at
any Electronics Boutique; they'll buy almost any used game, console or PC.

Although personally, if I find a great game, I keep it. You never know
when a friend is interested in sharing the experience, or an expansion
is gonna come out, or whatever.

Jim
Message no. 25
From: valeuj@*****.navy.mil (Valeu, John W. EM3 (AS40 R-3))
Subject: Microsoft/Bungie/Jordan Weisman to make Shadowrun game
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 07:45:17 +1000
> >>True, but you can't return a PC game once you tire of it.
> Like I did with
> <snip>
> > Assuming that you spent 30 hours playing the game [and to
> play both light
> > and dark side, I think it's closer to 40, but we'll be
> generous to your
> > gaming skills], and 60 bucks buying it, that's $2/hour. I
> don't know about
> > you, but I consider that pretty damned good value for my
> money, especially
> > given the quality of KOTOR.
>
> And if we're being honest here, you can probably get $8-10 for it at
> any Electronics Boutique; they'll buy almost any used game,
> console or PC.
>
> Although personally, if I find a great game, I keep it. You
> never know
> when a friend is interested in sharing the experience, or an
> expansion
> is gonna come out, or whatever.

No EB here on Island, though Gamestop gave me about $23 for it.
The only thing about the game that I'm complaining about is the time length
to complete it.
25 hours for each side. And the only reason it took me that long the second
time through was because I couldn't skip the movies. I guess since I was on
leave and had nothing to do for about 30 days might have something to do
with it.

Of course Prince of Persia said that I beat it in about 7 and a half hours
but I KNOW I took longer then that.

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Microsoft/Bungie/Jordan Weisman to make Shadowrun game, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!