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Message no. 1
From: Brian McCallister <mccllstr@*****.BUCKNELL.EDU>
Subject: Miffed---> Rant, not discussion
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 08:58:53 -0400
I'm ranting. There is no thought out discussion in this posting. If you
are the type that flames for posts like this, don't read it.

I just got an extremely promising character killed through a
combination of brute player stupidity, and novice GM me-against-players
attitude.

If the reason he had died had been because the corp got him back for
putting a bullet through Johnson's left eye, and Johnson's 4 trolls and
elf buddy backup I'd of acccepted it. The reason he died though wuz cuz
the GM didn't like our reaction to being double crossed by Johnson, then
having Johnson add insult to injury (in terms of offering to sell us a
cure to the paranormal disease his corp infected us with) Oh well. As I
was ranting about... Gm said to himself, "They are now going to die, I
will keep adding more firepower on Johnson's side until there is no
possible way for them to survive, even if God intervenes on their
behalf" as soon as I pulled the trigger. So he added seven Barret-121,
with dikoted versions of their special APDS ammo, equipped
snipers and a rigger with a rocket ripple launching thing in the building
across the street to Johnson's backup of four LMG eqipped trolls and elf
thing (elves are things, i don't care what he may have been good at, he
ended up being armor for our Sammie). I know now, after finding out what
he said to himself, that he would have added more if we had survived
that. OOps, forgot, the baddies all somehow maneaged
to roll iniatives of 40+ At least we managed to do some pretty hefty PR
damage to a Lone Star owned corp in terms of destroying two city blocks,
when it is very obvious which corp did the damage.

go ahead and flame me. i will hunt you down and shoot you. i do it to
johnson, i'll do it to you.

thank you for allowing me this rant.

Brian McCallister---------------------------------------------------Skrub
"I got to play Doom II on a Pentium 90 !!!!!!!"
-Skrub, before being shot for unknown reasons
Message no. 2
From: Matt Hufstetler <gt2778a@*****.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Miffed---> Rant, not discussion
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 10:22:54 -0400
> I just got an extremely promising character killed through a
> combination of brute player stupidity, and novice GM me-against-players
> attitude.

> putting a bullet through Johnson's left eye, and Johnson's 4 trolls and
> elf buddy backup I'd of acccepted it. The reason he died though wuz cuz
> the GM didn't like our reaction to being double crossed by Johnson, then

Hehehehehe.... I've seen this problem before. Yeah, it pisses me off too.
One of our GM's has a total lack of realism. We were playing Eye
Witness, and he decided to 'pump' the opposition for us. He doesn't quite
understand just how powerful threat ratings are and just how professional
rating works. He set Clean Steve's professional rating to 12, and his
threat rating to 14. We didn't try to kill him, but, MY GOD! No one in
our party would have been able to. The only one who might have been able
to do it, would have been our Physical Adept, who rolls about 21 dice in
melee combat. Not only that, but after his first death, he would have
gotten back up two more times(That realization brought a lot of laughter)
due to his professional rating.

It's not that he's a bad GM, allright so I'm lying. Sometimes he can be a
REALLY crummy GM. His main point is the fact that he hasn't learned how
to be an interesting cyberpunk. He uses straight direct force. There
isn't even an inkling of finesse. Even his characters are two
dimensional. We have all been trying to think of a way to tell him how he
needs to improve without insulting the hell out of him. Owell, anyone
here have any ideas?
Message no. 3
From: Chris Lubrecht <lubrecht@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Miffed---> Rant, not discussion
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 13:33:35 -0400
Interesting rant. I hope you calmed down now. yes GM's who pull that
kinda shit suck, however...Consider this,

1 Was the GM's purpose to kill you, or to get you to run away
(descretion is the better part of valor) I often use incredible odds to
get characters to flee...most take the hint.

2. GM's have emotions too...maybe you should rant to him/her...in a calm
way...

3. Just because another player does something stupid, does not mean your
character has to show loyalty...run away if the odds suck..when in doubt
see #1

Just my 2 cornflakes worth

Nigel (who is feeling incredibly verbose today)
Message no. 4
From: Brian McCallister <mccllstr@*****.BUCKNELL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Miffed---> Rant, not discussion
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 15:09:34 -0400
On the rant. I am much calmer now :)

> 1 Was the GM's purpose to kill you, or to get you to run away
> (descretion is the better part of valor) I often use incredible odds to
> get characters to flee...most take the hint.
>
No, it was not to get us to run away. After my held action w/ the sniper
rifle, we were all dead before anyone got any actions. When it was over,
the GM told us that he decided to kill us, and that there was no way we
could have lived. When I pulled the trigger, he decided to kill us all.
No escape was possible, ever, what so ever. He said "You are all dead,
don't worry about rolling." Even the three of us who were inside the 12
body, 6 armor truck (big rig type truck) were dead, don't worry about
rolling.

> 2. GM's have emotions too...maybe you should rant to him/her...in a calm
> way...
>
He understands what he did is probly not what any sane person would have
done. What I forget to mention though is that this was on the second run
these characters had ever done :) Since this campaign (cut rather short)
was his first attempt at GM'ing, we did talk afterwords. Considering he
also killed all the characters at the end of the first run, that time
there was nothing we could have done, even if we were omnicient, we
thought maybe the discussion after that, where he said "Oh, maybe having
all half a dozen + 2 guys completely surprise you, surrounding you w/ LMG's
and flamethrowers all w/ wired 3 is overkill. I just wanted it to be
difficult." And then going back and redoing the ending had taught him
something. This time he said, your dead, it's your fault. Don't ever
f*\/c|< w/ a corp in my world. If they screw you over you are screwed over,
deal. I personally feel this was a very poor way of making that point,
especially when he had the johnson specifically insult us by offering to
sell us the antidote to the poison they infected us w/ in a ver flippant
manner. He was an elf though, so I guess that was to be expected.

> 3. Just because another player does something stupid, does not mean your
> character has to show loyalty...run away if the odds suck..when in doubt
> see #1
>
Well, the odds we were originally presented with, 4 trolls w/ lmg and the
two elves, considering 3 of four of us, all but the sam, were in a 12
body, 6 armor truck, w/ a Heavy Minigun on a turret aimed at Johnson, me
on a sniper rifle, and the other rigger at the controls of a steel lynx
w/ HMG, ready to jump at siogn of a double cross. I sorta figured it was
fair odds, and if they wanted to extract revenge later, hell, it's not
worth the money when they realized we wouldn't have hosed em if they
hadn't tried to screw us over.

I was the one that did the stupid. However, from the other players told
me, it was only because I spoke the fastest.

> Just my 2 cornflakes worth
>
> Nigel (who is feeling incredibly verbose today)
>
Message no. 5
From: the holy Entombed <rasputin@***.UMD.EDU>
Subject: Re: Miffed---> Rant, not discussion
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 17:02:49 -0400
On Mon, 3 Oct 1994, Brian McCallister wrote:

> > 1 Was the GM's purpose to kill you, or to get you to run away [...]
> >
> No, it was not to get us to run away. After my held action w/ the sniper
> rifle, we were all dead before anyone got any actions. When it was over,
> the GM told us that he decided to kill us, and that there was no way we
> could have lived. When I pulled the trigger, he decided to kill us all.
> No escape was possible, ever, what so ever. He said "You are all dead,
> don't worry about rolling." Even the three of us who were inside the 12
> body, 6 armor truck (big rig type truck) were dead, don't worry about
> rolling.

You know, I read something like this, and I'm astounded. How in the hell
could a GM (a) say something like that, and then (b) have the gall to do it?
It really burns me up when I hear about other GMs pulling crap like
that. So the players are upset and possibly getting themselves into
something too deep. Give them a chance!

What's worse, apparently, this GM took your actions personally. I
have never been able to understand this, either. If you're a naturally
adversarial person, don't try to run an RPG. It sounds like this guy
took your revenge on the Johnson as a challenge to his authority.

> This time he said, your dead, it's your fault. Don't ever
> f*\/c|< w/ a corp in my world. If they screw you over you are screwed over,
> deal. I personally feel this was a very poor way of making that point,
> especially when he had the johnson specifically insult us by offering to
> sell us the antidote to the poison they infected us w/ in a ver flippant
> manner. He was an elf though, so I guess that was to be expected.

Yes, but it wasn't the elf speaking as his character in the game, it was
the GM speaking through the elf.


--the holy Entombed--
rasputin@***.umd.edu "It must be the pretzels."
--Rasputin the Mad--
Message no. 6
From: Stephane Lafrance <Stephane.Lafrance@***.ULAVAL.CA>
Subject: Re: Miffed---> Rant, not discussion
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 15:54:48 EDT
No problem, lad, I'm a good listener (reader in this case).

But I think you should have flamed your GM.

Stephan

----------------------[Reply - Original Message]----------------------

Sent by:Brian McCallister <mccllstr@*****.BUCKNELL.EDU>
I'm ranting. There is no thought out discussion in this posting. If you
are the type that flames for posts like this, don't read it.

I just got an extremely promising character killed through a
combination of brute player stupidity, and novice GM me-against-players
attitude.

If the reason he had died had been because the corp got him back for
putting a bullet through Johnson's left eye, and Johnson's 4 trolls and
elf buddy backup I'd of acccepted it. The reason he died though wuz cuz
the GM didn't like our reaction to being double crossed by Johnson, then
having Johnson add insult to injury (in terms of offering to sell us a
cure to the paranormal disease his corp infected us with) Oh well. As I
was ranting about... Gm said to himself, "They are now going to die, I
will keep adding more firepower on Johnson's side until there is no
possible way for them to survive, even if God intervenes on their
behalf" as soon as I pulled the trigger. So he added seven Barret-121,
with dikoted versions of their special APDS ammo, equipped
snipers and a rigger with a rocket ripple launching thing in the building
across the street to Johnson's backup of four LMG eqipped trolls and elf
thing (elves are things, i don't care what he may have been good at, he
ended up being armor for our Sammie). I know now, after finding out what
he said to himself, that he would have added more if we had survived
that. OOps, forgot, the baddies all somehow maneaged
to roll iniatives of 40+ At least we managed to do some pretty hefty PR
damage to a Lone Star owned corp in terms of destroying two city blocks,
when it is very obvious which corp did the damage.

go ahead and flame me. i will hunt you down and shoot you. i do it to
johnson, i'll do it to you.

thank you for allowing me this rant.

Brian McCallister---------------------------------------------------Skrub
"I got to play Doom II on a Pentium 90 !!!!!!!"
-Skrub, before being shot for unknown reasons

Message no. 7
From: Stephane Lafrance <Stephane.Lafrance@***.ULAVAL.CA>
Subject: Re: Miffed---> Rant, not discussion
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 15:57:42 EDT
Give him 12 beers and tell him! ;-)

Stephan

----------------------[Reply - Original Message]----------------------

Sent by:Matt Hufstetler <gt2778a@*****.GATECH.EDU>
> I just got an extremely promising character killed through a
> combination of brute player stupidity, and novice GM me-against-players
> attitude.

> putting a bullet through Johnson's left eye, and Johnson's 4 trolls and
> elf buddy backup I'd of acccepted it. The reason he died though wuz cuz
> the GM didn't like our reaction to being double crossed by Johnson, then

Hehehehehe.... I've seen this problem before. Yeah, it pisses me off too.
One of our GM's has a total lack of realism. We were playing Eye
Witness, and he decided to 'pump' the opposition for us. He doesn't quite
understand just how powerful threat ratings are and just how professional
rating works. He set Clean Steve's professional rating to 12, and his
threat rating to 14. We didn't try to kill him, but, MY GOD! No one in
our party would have been able to. The only one who might have been able
to do it, would have been our Physical Adept, who rolls about 21 dice in
melee combat. Not only that, but after his first death, he would have
gotten back up two more times(That realization brought a lot of laughter)
due to his professional rating.

It's not that he's a bad GM, allright so I'm lying. Sometimes he can be a
REALLY crummy GM. His main point is the fact that he hasn't learned how
to be an interesting cyberpunk. He uses straight direct force. There
isn't even an inkling of finesse. Even his characters are two
dimensional. We have all been trying to think of a way to tell him how he
needs to improve without insulting the hell out of him. Owell, anyone
here have any ideas?

Message no. 8
From: Matt Hufstetler <gt2778a@*****.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Miffed---> Rant, not discussion
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 01:00:56 -0400
>
> Give him 12 beers and tell him! ;-)
>
> Stephan
>

Well, we've had those experiences. He's sworn off all alcohol. He hates
beer, and made a really big ass of himself because of the vodka. Any other
bright ideas? =:*)
Message no. 9
From: "D.O.A. SECURITY" <MKNABUSCH@****.ALBION.EDU>
Subject: Re: Miffed---> Rant, not discussion
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 01:08:35 -0500
DMSO and alcohol? Without telling him what it is (squirt guns
are nice...).

And for bright ideas try shock therapy. =;*)

Michael
Aka Harlequin
Message no. 10
From: Stephane Lafrance <Stephane.Lafrance@***.ULAVAL.CA>
Subject: Re: Miffed---> Rant, not discussion
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 09:33:33 EDT
----------------------[Reply - Original Message]----------------------
Sent by:Matt Hufstetler <gt2778a@*****.GATECH.EDU>

Any other bright ideas? =:*)
=====================================================================
What about hypnosis? ;-)

Seriously, what kind of guy is he? I mean, aren't you able to tell
him straight? If you take the time to discuss, you may be able to
come to an agreement.

Well, salut!

Stephan

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