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Message no. 1
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Mike's Course
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 14:44:39 -0600
/ >>> Gurth <gurth@******.NL> 08/03/98 03:27pm >>>
/
/ >...OTOH I feel Mike is steering SR away too far from
/ >what SR was until he took over... No, I don't mean the whole IE
/ >plot (which I like, provided it's not overdone) but if you ask me
/ >SR is about shadowrunners doing shadowruns for whatever
/ >personal reasons they have. My impression of Mike's view is
/ >that it's about everything but shadowrunners (see Companion,
/ >Underworld, Cyberpirates), and that shadowrunners should do
/ >the Right Thing(tm). But let's not turn this into a rant :)

They're *source*books. :)

Everything other than the core rules are for those players and/or GMs
that want to broaden, add depth, or readjust their game. If you want
to run in the Caribian, get Pirates. If you want to do some heavy
rigging, their's R2. If you want to get involved with the corps,
there's BitB. Cops: LoneStar. Magic: Awakenings. Etc.

You don't have to use them. If you want, you can run a game off the
core rules alone and have more than enough fun.

Or if Bug City looks like a kick in the ass (Hi Tinner ;) you can buy
it and terrorize your players (or buy it for your GM if you're a sadist
:)

I think Mike is doing a good job of providing good extra material for
the nich market of Shadowrun.

Now if they'd only do a Japan sourcebook :-\

-David
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 2
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Mike's Course
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 12:02:21 +0100
David Buehrer said on 14:44/3 Aug 98,...

> They're *source*books. :)
[snip]
> You don't have to use them. If you want, you can run a game
off the
> core rules alone and have more than enough fun.

I know that. And I don't use some books actively in my
campaign; for example, I own Cyberpirates, but I don't think my
players will become pirates any time soon, or will even have
anything to do with pirates. But the point is that if FASA brings
out sourcebooks for playing <whatever> in SR, many players will
get the impression that that's what SR is about -- after all they're
going to see the books in their local game store.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Money, tickets, passports! Money, tickets, passports!
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 3
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Mike's Course
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 07:46:17 -0600
Gurth wrote:
/
/ But the point is that if FASA brings
/ out sourcebooks for playing <whatever> in SR, many players will
/ get the impression that that's what SR is about -- after all they're
/ going to see the books in their local game store.

Ah. Okay, that's a good point that I hadn't thought of (once again I
was assuming that the general public had as much common sense as I do
:(

Keep in mind that the basics (SSC, Shadowteck, Awakenings, VR2, R2, and
Thingummy) are still on the shelves at the game store. Hopefully
players and GMs will realize that they are the core sourcebooks and the
other sourcebooks are optional flavors. Of course, that's an awful lot
to hope for.

I'll reserve my opinion until I see how SR3 is presented. That will
make all the difference in the world, IMHO.

-David
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 4
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Mike's Course
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 19:59:49 +0100
David Buehrer said on 7:46/4 Aug 98,...

> Ah. Okay, that's a good point that I hadn't thought of (once again I
> was assuming that the general public had as much common sense as I do
> :(

That's the wrong attitude :)

> I'll reserve my opinion until I see how SR3 is presented. That will
> make all the difference in the world, IMHO.

I think so too... I'm hoping it stays true to the original concept of
runners doing their thing for their own reasons, not because
they're out to improve the world.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Money, tickets, passports! Money, tickets, passports!
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 5
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Mike's Course
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 16:18:46 -0400
At 07:46 AM 8/4/98 -0600, David Buehrer wrote these timeless words:
>Gurth wrote:
>/
>/ But the point is that if FASA brings
>/ out sourcebooks for playing <whatever> in SR, many players will
>/ get the impression that that's what SR is about -- after all they're
>/ going to see the books in their local game store.
>
>Ah. Okay, that's a good point that I hadn't thought of (once again I
>was assuming that the general public had as much common sense as I do
>:(
>
>Keep in mind that the basics (SSC, Shadowteck, Awakenings, VR2, R2, and
>Thingummy) are still on the shelves at the game store. Hopefully
>players and GMs will realize that they are the core sourcebooks and the
>other sourcebooks are optional flavors. Of course, that's an awful lot
>to hope for.
>
>I'll reserve my opinion until I see how SR3 is presented. That will
>make all the difference in the world, IMHO.
>
Welp, we'll have a LOT more detailed info coming soon, but...

They really do go into the whole concept of Shadowrunners now in the core
book. There's a whole section just on what shadowrunners are, what they
do, and the the bloody hell a shadowrun is. You realize this will be the
first time that's ever actually explained? <boggle>

Anyways, my opinion on the whole thing is that, well, outside of the main
book, the core SB's, and the fictions, what more can you do geared strictly
around hard core shadowrunners? Pretty much SB that comes out that isn;t
"New Toys for Runners" but is still designed for "Regular" Shadowrun
campigns, I can already see most of this list complaining that it sounds
dumb or they wasted their money, because "This is all stuff I know or do now".

<shrug>

Bull
--
Bull -- The Best Ork Decker You Never Met
chaos@*****.com ===== bull22@***********.com
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604

=======================================================
= =
= Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any Fours? =
= =
=======================================================

"Can the Gummi Worms really live in peace with the Marshmallow Chicks?"
-- Pinky, "Pinky and the Brain"
Message no. 6
From: Nexx Many-Scars <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Mike's Course
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 18:01:53 EDT
In a message dated 98-08-04 13:59:35 EDT, you write:

> > I'll reserve my opinion until I see how SR3 is presented. That will
> > make all the difference in the world, IMHO.

I'm going to say right now I'm going to reserve _all_ of my opinions about
_all_ things SR3 until I get at least a couple days to read through the book,
cover-to-cover, at least once. I hate arguing from a position of ignorance,
so I try to avoid it. (Stop laughing. I really do try)

> I think so too... I'm hoping it stays true to the original concept of
> runners doing their thing for their own reasons, not because
> they're out to improve the world.

Couldn't that be part of their reasons for running? Sure, you're going to
have a _lot_ of mercenaries in this business (I would say a clear majority),
but you're also going to have Neo-Anarchists out to make the world a better
place, people who were told by their totem to take certain actions, thrill-
seekers who like to get shot at, ex-government and corprate agents who want to
screw over their last employer, lab mice trying to take over the world, toxics
working hard at killing all of humanity, Invae sympathizers who want to start
a new hive, hermetic bookworms looking for focus components, people looking
for family members\friends\dogs, amnesiacs looking for their past, cyber-
fiends looking for their souls, magic-users on the run from magical groups,
Discordians promoting the eristic principle, envioromentalists, tribals... In
short, if the number of runners in the world equals X, then the number of
reasons to run is going to be (X^478993478613789413287956349810932)+5. True,
I think getting away from saving the world as the reason to run is a good
idea... but I don't think it should be completely discarded, if for no other
reason than that's the kind of games I like to be in.

Nexx
Message no. 7
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Mike's Course
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 20:23:56 -0500
On August 04, 1998, Bull wrote:

>Pretty much SB that comes out that isn;t "New Toys
>for Runners" but is still designed for "Regular" Shadowrun
>campigns, I can already see most of this list complaining
>that it sounds dumb or they wasted their money, because "This
>is all stuff I know or do now".

Hell, Bull, those are the ones I like the most, the ones that add to the
world and not to the toy box. Toys are plentiful, but something that adds
to my knowledge of how Lone Star works what I can expect to find lurking in
the San Fernando Valley are much more valuable to me. Thus my true desire
to see TARGET: CAS sometime in the future.

Which reminds me, I need to go work on a baby megacorp for my writeup of my
home sprawl after I finish cooking dinner.

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Mike's Course, you may also be interested in:

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