| From: | Deird'Re Brooks <deirdre@***.ORG> |
|---|---|
| Subject: | Military, Cyber and Other Stuff |
| Date: | Fri, 3 Dec 1993 02:09:55 -0800 |
To: Ben Jordan
Subj: Military Cyber
Nice post Ben, do you have military time behind you too?
Powerhouse
Subj: Gm Blues
Yeah, that's the only way to go when you GM as much as I do. It
feels much more realistic too, I just run with what the NPC
'should' reasonably do in the situation. Also some very good
points about the points I put up an the difficulty of finding,
and killing four fish in the *huge* pond. Some wouldn't work,
such as following the cred account, some would *if* you can find
the right squatter in the same huge pond. Realistically, they
will know you are looking long before you have any chance of
finding them. As for the magical tracing, Problem one is that
you must know the target before you can send a spirit after it.
Ritual link is straight out. The mages in the group do
know, and *use*, Sterilyze.
On the Nerve Gas idea; You are *seriously* considering the use of *nerve
gas* in downtown SEA?
On the Reaction roll vs a sniper (covered under the heading of *SURPRISE* in
the SRII rules. Yes, the target *does* get the reaction roll, ALL THE TIME.
This is supposed to be a kind of heroic game. The sniper rolls against
'2's and the target rolls against '4's but they *DO* roll. Heck, I heard
about a man in the 'nam who routinely ducked just as the sniper pulled the
trigger. Combat sense, it's called, Combat Reflexes in GURPS. Nothing
about "see the sniper" either, there's just this funny feeling. . .
John Fox
re: cyber military
Sorry, the name of the military game is get in fast with
overwhelming firepower, take the place, then hold it. The proper
way to expect it is the Airmobile assault flowen by rigged pilots
and fought by wired gunners carrying wired, armored, and 'linked
troops to your very door. If the oppo can't match the speed and
power, welcome to your new country, same as the old one, but
under new management.
The problem with external gear is that if it isn't *attached* to the trooper
it will get lost, mislaid, broken, or stolen at exactly the wrong time.
The other thing is that armies, at least the successful ones, will become
elite groups only in short order. Heinlein covered the idea very well in
Starship Troopers.
S. Keith Graham
re: assassination
You gave me some points to consider, the whole idea of the write-up was to
get people to think about the situation. It did it's job too. Thanks for
the response. Also, your, and other people's responses to the cybered
military and police really brought home one of the major problems with the
Shadowrun pricing, monetarily and Essense-wise, of both cyber and bio. I
had let that slip by me because of the way I price the things. The military
would cyber up, no matter the price, because of the "point of attack"
problem but the cops probably would only do specialized teams at the full
rating. The rest, going from the Shadowtech legal statuses of most combat
bio and cyber would get lower level stuff.
Picket Lines(?) Oh, yeah, I'm pretty sure that "picket lines" went the way
of the Auk. I spent 20 years in and never saw one. Not even in the 'nam.
>Sure, you'll see the plane. . . etc:
You're *seriously* considering the use of that level of force in downtown SEA?
>So you use indirect fire. . .
Indirect fire weapons? With the Plex Guard in an overwatch position, with
radar? And in downtown SEA?
>If you use that kind of security on every meeting, and on every building
>then I *will* assemble a team/method that bypasses it. . .
I surely wish there was a way to run this. It would be a lot of fun for
both of us. Unfortunately, I'm in Springfield, Oregon and I don't even know
*where* you are.
>Historically it's the artillery that's done all the killing?
Sorry, wrong answer. Artillery, like any other support arm, is useful but
when the job gets done it's always the Poor Bloody Infantry doing the
taking, and holding, of the ground.
Buddy's, and how far you can trust them. Allow me to offer the example of
the story "Will it help if we say that we're sorry?" from "Into the
Shadows"
in which Tiger Jones is the PC and Iron Mike Morrisey is the "Buddy". Per
the big guys who designed the game, that's the way a buddy is supposed to
work. They won't backstab you as long as the player remembers that the
buddy *is* his best friend and treats them as such.
To: Neal A. Porter
Subj: Essense
Actually, Neal, I don't like the Essense deal at all. It is only
a Game Mechanic to control the amount of cyber a character can have,
just as Humanity is in Cyberpunk 2.0.2.0. and has NO other
purpose. Like, are you really going to think a person who loses
their EYES are going to be less human if they get their sight
back using *cyberware*? The whole Essense deal is a Luddite
method of controlling the amount of cyber a person, especially a
mage, can have. Game Balance uber alles!
On the other hand, the PRICES! Yeah, from your point of view, cost-wise, it
wouldn't fly at all. Back to the drawing board.
On the other subject, cyber-military, the only countries who will have them
are the countries who plan to WIN wars. Anyone who doesn't have them is
planning to lose whatever wars they get into.
To :Ed Matuskey
Subj: Infantry and Cyber
Well, for openers, there are no conscripted troops in the USA, and I really
don't expect any in the UCAS. Secondly, the reason for the cyber is called
the "Point of Attack" concept. The attacker has to have overwhelming
advantage for an attack. Neal Porter was coming in with 97 ordinary troops,
with smartlinks, equaling 1 cyber-grunt with my package. So you have 97
divisions of normos facing a single division of cyber-grunts. OK, the whole
thing boils down to the plain fact that the cyber-grunts pick the time and
place of attack and their opponent just can't pack his 97 divisions into one
spot and get the cyber-grunts to attack that spot. And the cyber-grunts,
due to speed, momentum, and fire-power will mow down any unit within ten
times their size. That's warfare, for actual examples of real-life results
of disparities at that exact level look at the German invasion of France or
the Allied invasion of southern Iraq. Each of those was a one generation
disparity, the first was tactical, the second example was equipment.
Cyber-grunt division versus 97 normo divisions is BOTH.
Thanks for the points on Holidays. You got me thinking, and that's
always good. It's a sure bet that the NANs don't have Thanksgiving and
Christmas is dodgy. Equinoxes, though different ones are a good bet. My
Nez Perce Grandfather had a whole set of them and I am trying to remember
them now. So long ago. . .
To: The Reverend
re: Dice rolling systems
Thank you for your delicious post on the ChrisZ system. I laughed so hard I
nearly fell out of my chair. That was GREAT!!!
High Karma Characters: Those characters have Karma POOLS of over 350! It
do take a bit to get them worried. Last time was when da big 'B' was
fighting a spirit Wasp Queen by herself while Candy wound up her spells.
Had da big 'B' down to about 16 karma by the time Candy got her
"thermonuclear whammy" off. They diced the queen, but they were both
sweating. I don't allow recharges on a run, so it gets tough at times. I
TRY to make it a sweater each run.
Diamond's accent: Well, it's kind of Portland Black, Kind of Deep south via
trids, and kind of hers. What she said was "What ever get's your kite up,
(makes you happy) honey. Remember, you're doing it for yourself, not for
the common citizens.
to Robert Watkins
re: Srun Holidays
NAN and christianity are like water and oil. The evils done to the Native
Americans by christians up to this time are remembered by all native
americans. I really don't think that'll change much by 2054, especially
with what happened in the early 21st century and late 20th.
to: Marcel Emami
re: Skillwire prices
I checked this one with Dowd and Hume on GEnie way back when. The prices
really *are* supposed to work the way your player said. The first levels
cost that much, the next levels add their costs, and the upper levels add
their costs.
He was correct by the word of the designers of the game. By the By, there
are a LOT of things that most GMs curl their toes at, but they really *are*
supposed to read the way it looks like they do.
The Deb Decker
re: Cyber-Military
The enemy has a TN of 3 for their smartgoggles at Short Range, the
cyber-grunt has a TN of 2 at *all* ranges. (that's what the electro-mag 3
is for) They engage their targets at longer ranges, faster, with more
firepower. Incidently, Wiring 2 does let you move first. That counts for a
lot. Also, with the smartlink, your missile is *much* less likely to miss.
GURPS Ultra-Tech was one of the least forsightful books I have ever seen.
GURPS has a real problem with forsight, but that one was the *worst*!
Of Course money's tight, and of course the gov't is too, but cyber-grunts
pay off a LOT better than missiles. A missile is a waste of time in the
Shadowrun world, just like it always was in this one. The troops are the
ones who do the work. The cyber-grunt will win, and that's the name of the
game.
About the "denying the UZI users the ammunition they need" Of course they
will buy it from their overseas suppliers. I didn't say it would work, or
that it was intelligent, I just proposed it as a way that caseless could
come into use given the mentality of the things in congress.
to: What
re: Cars
Lovely post, that.
to: Julian M. Wiffen
re: Falklands
Hmmmm, I was still in when that happened, and watched it from Ft. Meade, Md
at that place there. I was wondering just what was up. I also really
Wondered why we seemed to side with the Argentinans, now I think I know.
If they had won, we would probably have had easy access to the oil,
now wouldn't we?
Resource Wars: Yes, I believe that wars would be fought over recources, by
both gov't and corps. Holding the ground gets more necessary in those cases.
To: everyone
re: cyber-grunts
The Argentinian equipment advantage, if there really was one, was more than
offset by the poor quality of their training. But, in a modern war, fought
by modern opponents, training will be approximately equal. Look at it this
way, German army vs British army, both have good to great training, but the
Germans are cyber-grunts and the british have smart-goggles and body armor
at a medium level. The Germans also have the body armor and are otherwise
set up with my list but including trauma dampers. Who wins? No question at
all, the Germans walk right across the British. Reverse the picture and who
wins, The British walk all over the Germans. Imagine an Airmobile
Division, like unto the 1st Air Cav of 'nam fame doing a landing, Imagine
600+ LAV troop carriers in verticle echelon with everything firing. Now speed the
picture up by a factor of three times. Brutality doesn't begin to describe
the effect. That's what the normos holding the ground will see when the
cyber-grunts arrive. There will be a lot of work for the support arms in a
2050+ war, though not a lot for artillery (it's too short ranged as the
leaders found out in the desert) but that Point of Attack force will be
air-mobile infantry and they will *have* to be cybered to win.
Trauma Dampers, losers choice, the winners will put in damage compensators
as soon as they are available.
Also, the Essense and monetary costs are seriously skewed for another
reason. Nanotech! Those lil' nanites will be the cyber installers and bio
builders of the 21st century. Generally no operations at all, unless limbs
are put on or accident/combat damage is repaired. So, in a semi-realistic
game the whole Essense/nYen thing is out the window. (Magic is FUN, thats
the only reason I leave it in. My primary players both *love* to play
mages!) I use my Delta clinic prices for the Essense and, if the character
is ex-official of some kind, Military, Corp, Security, the monetary cost is
simply used to eat up their Resources pool. In other words, I don't change
the cost when a character is being created. After that the cost is relative
to the Legality Class of the item, and to the clinic level. Good work is
expensive, good illegal work is outrageous! The good stuff plain isn't
available on the legal market anyway. Per the Shadowtech book.
At one time I seriously thought about throwing out the Essense stat
completely. I may still do so. The Luddite concept behind it really gravels
at me at times.
Ivy, Back again
to: Powerhouse
re: Phys Ad's
>But unfortunately those martial arts only differ in their styles of
>fighting much as Aikido differs from Tae-kwon-do.
That's actually about a 180deg difference. Aikido is the softest art, in
it's true form it has NO attacks at all. Tae-kwon-do is one of the very
hardest arts. It is based on the principles of Attack, Attack, and when in
doubt Attack! as the good Count keeps (mis- (I think)) quoting. I think the
actual quote was from a French Field General, it went something like Audace,
tjours l'Adace (Not that I can type french at all. . .)
The White crane is the most defensive of the Kung-Fu styles and the
Tiger is (slightly) the most offensively orientated. Quite a bit of
difference, really, about a 160deg difference.
Cyber and Military: As I have said, all too many times for most of you, if
a country wants to win conflicts, or even better, *prevent* them, they will
cyber up highly. Anything else is the formula for losing. Bet on the
Germans and the UCAS, CSA, Aztlan to cyber to the max. The idea is that the
force of the future will go even farther than we (USA) have gone so far
towards the idea that everyone in uniform is combat ready. That's why we
have civ's doing a lot of the scut work now.
As for the cost of Cyber-troops, face it, lot'sa Money is still a lot cheaper
than having to learn a new language because your conquerers speak it and
your old, familiar, native tongue is now illegal. THINK about it, people!
Cyber-troops are a LOT cheaper than Nukes, which aren't really any good
anyway. And cyber-troops can *take and hold* ground, which NOTHING else can.
Definition for the Day: Munchkin GM; Any GM who reads the rules then blows
them off to make life harder for the players. The best response for a GM
like that is find another game. And warn your friends. The rules are
generally best looked at as the natural laws of the campaign, if someone
doesn't like the rules, they should GM something else, not ruin a very
good game for other people by getting creative with their own "rules".
Especially when these self-created rules are simply there to cheat the
players.
-----
Marzhavasati Kali |If mail bounces, check spelling. It's deirdre.
deirdre@***.org |If that doesn't work, send mail to
|deirdre%efn.org@*******.cs.uoregon.edu
"You can have my gun when you pry it out of my hand with _your_
cold, dead fingers."
-- DB
