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Message no. 1
From: Philip Hayward <Philip.Hayward@***.UK>
Subject: Re: Mimic
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 12:38:51 +6000
Damion wrote:
>> Spell Mimic

> Sounds pretty cool. Could be used to great effect and humour. Although how
> would you handle a mimiced Fireball? The target thinks he has taken Deadly
> damage... Who needs a real Fireball? :-)

I was thinking perception/intelligence whenever they might sus, varying
the TN as appropriate. At deadly it would be easy to spot it wasn't real
low TN, but if they failed (plenty of ones) then have em faint from fright :)
Against manaball then similar but I think reduce TN for perception unless
you make it obvious your casting at them. It's best use at mimicing
combat/DM's is against low professional, you know run away after moderate
wound, like scare tactics. There are some spells it could not mimic
like claivoyence or mind probe. Though with mind probe if subject
thinks you've read his mind then you might be able to trick him
with good roleplaying. the change I think I'll make is it can only
mimic a spell you know at half its power level, it reduces its
awesome versatility.

>> Specific spell mimic

> Kinda useless, except for the true prankster. Better to learn the real spell
> unless you have some evil scheme a plotting with which you plan to dupe
> everybody...

Yep, thats me!

Damion also wrote:
> OK, here's how I'd do a Spell Mimic spell.

> Illusion spell, TN 4

> Very Realistic or Very Complex Illusion (F/2)S
> Physical Spell $(F/2) +1!S
> Sustained Spell $(F/2) +2!S
> Area Effect Spell $(F/2) +2!D
> Illusion Spell Modifier $(F/2) +2!S
> Bonus Game Effect (Perception Roll) $(F/2) +2!D

Much higher drain which is probably fair since I have some wonderful plans
for it, my cat shaman loves illusions but the current ones fall very
short of inspiration. I'd take specific spell focus and make it my
favourite spell (integral to the character).

<spell description and effects to limit it>

> Arrgghh. I'm going around in circles there! The spell is _suposed_ to
> enforce such
effects on others. And yet allowing it to is too powerful. A
> Mimiced Fireball is simply too powerful. The Mimic ability cannot be that
> broad. If it can mimic all spells, then it is too good. Mayhaps one could
> only allow the spell to be used if the target was _expecting_ a particular
> effect. Like in the case of a Treat Spell, the target thinks he'll be
> healed, and the spell accomodates him and others into beleiving this has
> happended. Whereas a Fireball is unexpected. But then we run into the
> problem that the magician could spend one action to say "OK bad dudes, here
> comes a Fireball from the Devil himself", then cast a Mimic Spell spell
> next, as the targets were expecting to be deep fried.

This is why I think it has to be against successes not successes times two
and multiple intelligence and willpower tests will be made. Willpower to
overcome some things and intelligence _anytime_ someone might sus. it out

> OK, I'd have to say this spell is not possible. Sorry, but one gets tied up
> in knots trying to put down what it can(not) acheive.

I disagree, sure it has awesome versatility, limited by (must know real
spell at a lower force) and by good GM calls on making intelligence tests
whenever the effects are contradicted, ie a guy who thinks he has been
burnt to a cinder manages to get up and run away without too great a
difficulty. I'll have to go through the spells and decide what effects
it has or if it could mimic each spell. the specific mimic spell should
be ok. though.

The object of an illusion is to make people think something has happened
or more often to make them think a course of action is futile, and only
slightly to hinder them once they procede.

I do not want a munchkinous spell but I intend to develop more
illusions as it is the least developed spell category and other than
chaos/confusion/chaotic world or (imp) invisibility/physical mask/vehicle
mask there is little of benefit other than pleasure or entertainment style
spells.


Phil
<Philip.Hayward@***.uk>
Message no. 2
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Mimic
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 01:06:35 +1000
Philip Hayward writes:

Spell Mimic spell (kinda reminds me of the "Anti Magic Spell spell", and the
"Anti Magic Spell Spell spell" and the "..." a while
ago :-))

OK, here we go again.

Illusion spell, TN 4[R]

Very Realistic or Very Complex Illusion (F/2)S
Physical Spell [(F/2) +1]S
Sustained Spell [(F/2) +2]S
Area Effect Spell [(F/2) +2]D
Illusion Spell Modifier [(F/2) +2]S
Bonus Game Effect [(F/2) +2]D

This spell will mimic the effects of any other spell the caster knows. The
caster chooses the effect to be mimiced at the time of casting. The spell
impresses on the minds of the targets the effects the caster chooses. The
caster should note down the successes, as this is the Rating of the
illusion. Note also the Force of the spell. Any who look upon or experience
the effects of the spell must make an Intelligence test with a TN equal to
the Force of the spell. These successes they may subtract from the Rating of
the illusion to get their own personal illusion Rating for that particular
spell. Note that at the time of casting, all those with LOS to the illusion
would be considered targets, and will need to make Intelligence tests to
determine if the illusion affected them or not. If the target acheives equal
or more successes than the caster, then he is not fooled into believing the
illusion.

The above procedure should be used for a spell which has obvious physical
effects (namely any spell with an elemental effect), or a spell which was
expected on the aprt of the target (such as a Treat spell). For spells which
have no obvious physical effects and not expected by the target, the target
may make the Intelligence test with a TN equal to half (round down) the
Force of the spell. An example os this would be a Manaball, which has no
obvious effects other than the damage inflicted. If the target expects such
a spell OTOH (as would occur if the magician warned the target prior to
casting, such as "Freeze or I Manabolt you into cerebral hemorreage (sp?)",
and then casts the spell), then the target must make the Intelligence test
with a TN equal to the Force of the spell. {Note: How do you handle a target
who doesn't know what the frag a manabolt is?}

If used to mimic damaging spells, then if the target succumbs to the
illusion, he will think he has taken the base damage inflicted by the spell,
but with half of the original Force (round down). eg, a mimiced Fireball,
assuming the target succumbed, would then affect the target with an
effective Force of half (round down) the Force of the Mimic spell, and with
a damage category of Serious (the base). The target would then resist as per
the normal rules.

Note that no damage inflicted is actually real. The target will receive the
TN and initiative modifiers for as long as he beleives the illusion is real,
and will even pass out if he thinks he has taken Deadly damage, but the
actual harm is only "in the targets head". For the reverse effects, such as
a Heal spell, there is no actual damage healed. The target believes that the
damage has been fixed, but the GM should apply the TN penalties without the
knowledge of the player {get's tricky}.

If the Mimic Spell spell is used to mimic a spell which gives bonuses or
information to the recipient, then the target will _think_ he has the
ability granted, but will actually not. The GM should feel free to feed the
recipient of a mimiced Detect Enemies spell completely bogus information,
for example. The target of a mimiced Increase Attribute spell will be of the
opinion that he is stringer/quicker/etc, but the bonuses will not actually
apply. In the case of spell such as Mind Probe, the target will think he has
just had his mind raped (severe pain, disorientation etc), but the caster
will learn nothing.

Now, on to the prolonged effects. The generated effects will continue for as
long as the caster sustains the spell (a mimiced Shapechange spell will make
the recipient appear to be an animal to those who succumbed for as long as
the caster maintains the spell, for eg. A mimiced Fireball, while only
occurring in a split second, requires sustaining so that the targets think
they are still damaged; they believe they took a wound, and as long as the
caster sustains the spell, they will continue to believe so.) Some spells,
obviously, do not require sustaining on the part of the caster, the
aforementioned Mind Probe is an example. The moment the spell is dropped by
the caster, all effects cease to be. Those who beleive they were
char-broiled by the Fireball suddenly find themselves not hurting anymore,
and so on.

While under the effects of the spell, the targets are allowed additional
Intelligence tests against the Force of the spell whenever the integrity of
the illusion can be challenged. This is really a GM call. But, for example,
if a target believes his Serious wound to be healed, then when he next makes
an initiative or skill check, he might realise that he is not performing up
to scratch (due to the TN mod). The target is also allowed a test if the
incorrectness of his perceptions are pointed out by someone else. A Mimic
Spell spell covers up many of the targets natural perceptions and body
messages, but it has limitations. The successes the target acheives on this
test are subtracted from the Rating of the illusion for that particular
target. This may or may not bring the Rating to zero or below. If it does
not, then the target is still affected by the illusion. If it does, then the
target is no longer under the effects of the Mimic Spell spell.

The target may also be allowed (at the GMs discretion), an Intelligence test
as described above after a number of minutes {hours? turns? days?} equal to
the Mimic Spell spell's Force have passed. Assuming the caster has sustained
the spell for this length of time of course. A target who believes himself
unconcious or otherwise incapacitated by the effects of an illusionary spell
is allowed such a check automatically every number of turns equal to the
spells Force. The body will wake up the brain when it has determined there
is no real problem.

Well, how's that?

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au

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b++ D B? e+$ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
Message no. 3
From: Philip Hayward <Philip.Hayward@***.UK>
Subject: Re: Mimic
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 10:48:59 +6000
Damion writes:

> Spell Mimic spell (kinda reminds me of the "Anti Magic Spell spell", and
the
> "Anti Magic Spell Spell spell" and the "..." a
while ago :-))
>
> OK, here we go again.

> Illusion spell, TN 4(R)

actually shouldn't that be intelligence for an illusion spell?

<spell description removed>

> {Note how do you handle a target
> who doesn't know what the frag a manabolt is?}

So long as they are expecting to be in pain, or whatever the appropriate
results of a spell are. I liked this bit sort of a built in geasa.

> The target believes that the damage
> has been fixed, but the GM should apply the TN penalties without the
> knowledge of the player {get's tricky}.

It would be possible in my game, failing that let them know
there is a modifier but not from what, they'll try and work out
why, it would reduce the spells effectiveness somewhat though

> A target who believes himself unconcious or otherwise
> incapacitated by the effects of an illusionary spell is allowed
> such a check automatically every number of turns equal to the spells
> Force. The body will wake up the brain when it has determined there
> is no real problem.

OK, but He could be woken up before then by a good roughing up or soaking
in water, and wondering how come I'm still here

> Well, how's that?

A superb job, well worthy of that expected from one with the
title of guru :)

Phil
<Philip.Hayward@***.UK>
Message no. 4
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Mimic
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:12:20 +0200
>Well, how's that?

Very long :) But it looks cool...


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Sanity is contagious
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B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
Message no. 5
From: Damion Milliken <adm82@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Mimic
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 21:04:14 +1000
Philip Hayward writes:

> actually shouldn't that be intelligence for an illusion spell?

Ooops, you're right. It should be Intelligence[R], because it is a physical
Illusion.

> It would be possible in my game, failing that let them know
> there is a modifier but not from what, they'll try and work out
> why, it would reduce the spells effectiveness somewhat though

Depends on how good a role-players they are I guess. Can they keep player
and character knowledge separate?

> OK, but He could be woken up before then by a good roughing up or soaking
> in water, and wondering how come I'm still here

Yep, that kind of treatment would allow them a Intelligence test to realsie
it was fake (all the unusual/unexpected sensory input).

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+@ H s++:-- !g p0 !au a19 w+ v(?) C++ US++>+++ P+ L !3
E? N K- W M@ !V po@ Y+ t+ 5 !j R+(++) G(+)('''') !tv(--@)
b++ D B? e+$ u@ h* f+ !r n----(--)@ !y+
Message no. 6
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Mimic
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 12:13:17 +0200
>Depends on how good a role-players they are I guess. Can they keep player
>and character knowledge separate?

If they can't, I think you as a GM should step in and ask "Where did
<character's name> learn that? I only told <player's name>." That usually
works for me.


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
What the hell am I trying to say?
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Further Reading

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