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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject: Miniatures and Scenery in gaming
Date: Sun Feb 24 17:10:01 2002
I'm starting to utilize mini's in gaming and am having some trouble
finding ones that work well for shadowrun. I'm not going to hunt
eternally for ral parta minis because the ones I have gotten ahold of
just really haven't impressed me for quality/variety. For AD&D I'm
using the Reaper Minis and love em but can't find something other than a
few of the WH40K minis for characters and stuff. I'm also giving a lot
of trouble coming up with scenery for the whole thing, if someone could
give me some suggestions for either minis to use or where to find good
scenery I'd appreciate it.

Derek
Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (NightLife)
Subject: Miniatures and Scenery in gaming
Date: Sun Feb 24 22:15:01 2002
At 04:10 PM 2/24/2002 -0600, you wrote:
>I'm starting to utilize mini's in gaming and am having some trouble
>finding ones that work well for shadowrun. I'm not going to hunt
>eternally for ral parta minis because the ones I have gotten ahold of
>just really haven't impressed me for quality/variety. For AD&D I'm
>using the Reaper Minis and love em but can't find something other than a
>few of the WH40K minis for characters and stuff. I'm also giving a lot
>of trouble coming up with scenery for the whole thing, if someone could
>give me some suggestions for either minis to use or where to find good
>scenery I'd appreciate it.
>
>Derek


For scenery you could try http://www.crusader29.com/ and
http://www166.pair.com/%7Eepicast/ for figures there's WH40K Nercromunda
series, and the Street Violence from
http://www.wargamesfoundry.com/shop/system/index.html and the Void line
from http://www.i-kore.com/html/home%20page.htm.
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Miniatures and Scenery in gaming
Date: Mon Feb 25 06:10:08 2002
According to Derek Hyde, on Sun, 24 Feb 2002 the word on the street was...

> I'm starting to utilize mini's in gaming and am having some trouble
> finding ones that work well for shadowrun. I'm not going to hunt
> eternally for ral parta minis because the ones I have gotten ahold of
> just really haven't impressed me for quality/variety.

There are some good Partha figures around, but also some mediocre ones.
I've plugged it before, and will do so again:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/shadowrun/ralpartha.html has pictures of nearly
all the figures, and my views about the ones I owned at the time I last
updated that page :)

> For AD&D I'm
> using the Reaper Minis and love em but can't find something other than a
> few of the WH40K minis for characters and stuff.

I think that the Partha figures are pretty much your best bet, because
they're aimed at Shadowrun (obviously). I've found some use for other
figures, but not all that many; a few that come to mind are:

* The old Grenadier Kill Zone (I think) line. I can't remember who produces
them now, but you have to choose carefully, as many of them are far too
sci-fi for SR.
* The Millennium's End figures by ... Heartbreaker, I think. Long OOP,
though.
* The various figures by Ground Zero Games (sold in the US by GeoHex), many
of which are handy as soldiers or corporate security guards, as well as for
civilians (know anyone else who makes a set of four little kids?). This is
also a good range if you're looking for vehicles.

> I'm also giving a lot
> of trouble coming up with scenery for the whole thing, if someone could
> give me some suggestions for either minis to use or where to find good
> scenery I'd appreciate it.

Scenery you can make yourself, from inexpensive stuff. All you need is
styrofoam panels (and/or the blocks used for packing appliances), thin
card, plaster, glue & paint, etc. You can use 5 cm styrofoam insulation
tiles to build stuff on, as they're lightweight and easy to cut; they're
sold in 100x50 cm sizes over here, which I usually cut in half to create
50x50 cm squares for flexibility.

Houses and other buildings can be constructed from thinner styrofoam panels
(1 or 2 cm thick) cut to size and shape with a sharp hobby knife. This is
also where those packing blocks come in handy, as you can use them to
create complex buildings with very little effort. Leaving the roof separate
lets you put stuff inside the building as well. You can either paint the
walls directly, or put a thin layer of plaster over them if you don't want
the styrofoam effect on the walls.

Bushes and trees are easily made with model railroad accessories, and for
other items it's usually just a matter of using your imagination with stuff
you happen to have lying around, or come across.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Dat is de kip voor het ei spannen.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
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Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Miniatures and Scenery in gaming
Date: Mon Feb 25 09:50:00 2002
On Sun, 24 Feb 2002 16:10:30 -0600 "Derek Hyde" <dhyde@*********.net>
writes:
> I'm starting to utilize mini's in gaming and am having some trouble
> finding ones that work well for shadowrun. I'm not going to hunt
> eternally for ral parta minis because the ones I have gotten ahold
> of
> just really haven't impressed me for quality/variety. For AD&D I'm
> using the Reaper Minis and love em but can't find something other
> than a
> few of the WH40K minis for characters and stuff.

Check Excelsior Games (http://www.excelsior.cc) for WarZone minis. Also,
check the assorted lines available at New Wave (http://www.newwave.org),
though I don't reccomend ordering through New Wave (They charged me for
my minis and still haven't shipped a lot of them, but haven't given me
notice of when any of the remaining will be shipped.).

> I'm also giving a
> lot
> of trouble coming up with scenery for the whole thing, if someone
> could
> give me some suggestions for either minis to use or where to find
> good
> scenery I'd appreciate it.

Scenery: Paint some foam boards/shapes available from artist and craft
stores. (The local art store in Houston has them cheaper than the local
craft store.) Also, check the craft stores for diorama scenery stuff,
especially after christmas. I bought several nice trees for a few bucks
(total) at the local craft store's 90% off after christmas sale. :)

Also, for big minis, check toy stores (Use legos to build your own
cityscape!). Something made as a toy costs a lot less than something made
as a mini. I bought a clear plastic Final Fantasy Dragon (makes a nice
amthyst dragon) as part of set of figures. Dragon's regular price ~ $44
It's about the size of Reaper's $75 Gauth but with bigger wings, lots of
articulation, and the purple tinted clear plastic looks cool. Of course,
I managed to get it on sale, as part of a set with 4 other figures for
$50 total. :)

--
D. Ghost
Profanity is the one language all programmers know best
- Troutman's 6th programming postulate.

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Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Dan Turek)
Subject: Miniatures and Scenery in gaming
Date: Mon Feb 25 10:55:01 2002
>Subject: Miniatures and Scenery in gaming

>I'm starting to utilize mini's in gaming and am having some trouble
>finding ones that work well for shadowrun. I'm also giving a lot
>of trouble coming up with scenery for the whole thing, if someone could
>give me some suggestions for either minis to use or where to find good
>scenery I'd appreciate it.
>
If you have a Toys 'R Us or used store around:
HeroQuest by Milton Bradley? A board game with D&D base
that gives you dwarf, elf, etc. with tons of goblins. The expansions
have ogres and more skeletons which work good for Trolls and Halloweeners.
Also has props for dungeon stuff. Better for D&D, but are almost the same
scale as...

Army Men. There are different scale ones (I prefer the mini ones that are
close to OH scale - or is it HO, was never into trains) and they are fine
for security forces and heavy duty law enforcement. They even have medic
ones for DocWagon, etc. I use the tanks and jeeps too.

Weapons and Warriors - a fun game which is heavily marked down. Only about
20-25 figures, and no more than 4 kinds, but if you want a castle front or a
ship this is an inexpensive way to go. The cannons and catapults are great
for D&D or some of the worst parts of the sprawl :)

The old SR Gamemaster's book had cardboard characters you fold (and should
glue/tape to pennies) if you can find it. DMZ had some too I think (or maybe
I confuse the two). Any rate, DMZ had (cardboard) bikes.

If you are using the above then Car Wars won't match the scale, but works if
you have a lot of vehicles, especially bikes chasing tractor trailer trucks.
The original version had a lot of counters, as well as ones for smoke,
mines, etc which could also represent sustained spells.

If you really like scenery and such try the hobby shop's model train
department. They also have figures (though a litle pricey) for all kinds of
people - townsfolk, farmers, etc. The train depot could be the L in Chicago
(or did it get blown up?) or you could have an SR mission to kidnap a
magical Amish person :) Hm, that reminds me of someting for another post :)

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Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Meph)
Subject: Miniatures and Scenery in gaming
Date: Mon Feb 25 11:05:01 2002
> Also, for big minis, check toy stores (Use legos to build your own
> cityscape!). Something made as a toy costs a lot less than something made
> as a mini. I bought a clear plastic Final Fantasy Dragon (makes a nice
> amthyst dragon) as part of set of figures. Dragon's regular price ~ $44
> It's about the size of Reaper's $75 Gauth but with bigger wings, lots of
> articulation, and the purple tinted clear plastic looks cool. Of course,
> I managed to get it on sale, as part of a set with 4 other figures for
> $50 total. :)


I have to agree totally with you on this one. I also use minis just
to enhance my RPGs. I began to use the Hero's Quest game to help (it comes
with chest and table and all sorts of furniture goodies. From there I
started buying the little army men scenes. They include fences, little
plastic trees, and the like. And they are CHEAP! Chekc out a toy store
where the army men are and look around!

Meph
Message no. 7
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Rat)
Subject: Miniatures and Scenery in gaming
Date: Mon Feb 25 12:15:01 2002
Dan Turek wrote:


> HeroQuest by Milton Bradley? A board game with D&D base
> that gives you dwarf, elf, etc. with tons of goblins. The expansions
> have ogres and more skeletons which work good for Trolls and Halloweeners.
> Also has props for dungeon stuff. Better for D&D, but are almost the same
> scale as...
>

I second this. I don't know how easy this game is to find
anymore (haven't looked recently) but I bought four copies of
it on sale back in the early '90s which gave me tons of orks,
goblins, and all kinds of other useful minis to use as NPCs,
"monsters," and PC figures when we haven't gotten around to
painting one for a PC yet. Our HQ figures all have codes written
on their bases in permanent ink (orks are "O01" through "O24,"
skeletons are "S01" through "S20" or whatever, etc.) It's a big
help when running large or even medium-sized combats.

Another thing we find very useful is Hot Wheels cars--they're
close enough to the scale of the figures that they don't look
too out of place and they're great for both car chases and
scenery during street battles.

--Rat

~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~~
Rat - winterhawk@*********.net http://www.magespace.net
Winterhawk's Virtual Magespace - Shadowrun Fiction and More!
"It's moments like these that make you step away from the
madness of the world, and ask: Why can't we all just
hug dog-butt and say Ohhhh?"
--James Lileks
~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~~^~~
Message no. 8
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Meph)
Subject: Miniatures and Scenery in gaming
Date: Tue Feb 26 01:05:01 2002
I also found http://www.geohex.com/fwar01.htm has some neat ones....even
a bunch of civilian minis!

Meph
Message no. 9
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Miniatures and Scenery in gaming
Date: Tue Feb 26 03:25:01 2002
On Mon, 25 Feb 2002 22:11:24 -0800 "Meph" <meph@*********.net> writes:
> I also found http://www.geohex.com/fwar01.htm has some neat
> ones....even
> a bunch of civilian minis!

Also check out Aintsy (http://www.ainsty.co.uk/)

--
D. Ghost
Profanity is the one language all programmers know best
- Troutman's 6th programming postulate.

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Message no. 10
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Meph)
Subject: Miniatures and Scenery in gaming
Date: Tue Feb 26 10:55:00 2002
> Also check out Aintsy (http://www.ainsty.co.uk/)


OH MY GOD! They ROCK! I was looking through their site, they are
*perfect* for shadowrun scenes! Awesome! And great prices!!! Have you
bought anything from them? Are they reliable?

Meph
Message no. 11
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Miniatures and Scenery in gaming
Date: Tue Feb 26 14:25:01 2002
On Tue, 26 Feb 2002 08:01:10 -0800 "Meph" <meph@*********.net> writes:
> > Also check out Aintsy (http://www.ainsty.co.uk/)

> OH MY GOD! They ROCK! I was looking through their site,
> they are
> *perfect* for shadowrun scenes! Awesome! And great prices!!! Have
> you
> bought anything from them? Are they reliable?

No. Not yet. I've started checking out companies with the Better Business
Bureau (http://www.bbb.org), but as an international site, they don't
have a listing.

--
D. Ghost
Profanity is the one language all programmers know best
- Troutman's 6th programming postulate.

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Message no. 12
From: shadowrn@*********.com (malcolm)
Subject: Miniatures and Scenery in gaming
Date: Tue Feb 26 14:30:01 2002
> miniatures in srun ,

try airfix , 1/72nd scale , they brought out a range when i was a kid about
... well lets not go there (20+ years ago) , the ones to look for in
particular are the nato ground troops and warsaw pact ground troops , most
are kitted with nbvc suits , modern assault rifles etc , ( some even have
gaurd dogs ) , normally
a good place to start , they are sec forces , if you cannot find then resort
to games workshop (GW) stuff , ( lotsa guys in BIG armour if you go for the
40k stuff ) they do well for over armoured trolls or orcs compared to 1/72nd
,

we tend to use miniatures more for ad&d , more stuff is available , but if
you are an old d&d fan and used to get dragon have a look thru the old
through the looking glass articles plenty stuff on wargaming and miniatures
, and if your really desperate head down to your local wargaming group they
will do everything from assyrian to post-modern ( annoying thing is post
modern scale is 1/1000 or some such bung ) , i seem to remember grenadier
miniatures and a few other will check my archives of dragon and get back to
you ,

when really desperate try something like chess pieces or draughts counters ,
chips or treats tend to get devoured and it is just no fun someone else
eating your fav runner , as to scenery don't buy train stuff it is
overpriced , build your own ( that's what the train hobbyists do anyway )
try styrofoam broken to rough edge and then painted for a hedge , or small
balls of styrofoam on toothpicks or steel wool for trees , buildings Hmmm ,
lego or paper and masking tape ( your choice ) , when you spend more on the
scenery than on the miniature your wasting ,

GW have painting guides and packs of paints including brushes and stuff ,
they also do manuals on how to paint well ( and i mean very well ) , this is
really a hobby on it's own , ask the guys in the games workshop for advice
they are helpful , even if you are one of the heathen , go for the smallest
brushes ( 0000 ) and an assortment of colours ( don't forget silver black
white ) , work in well lit areas on comfortable desks with plenty space ,
gw paints are water based for easy cleaning of brushes etc and fully
mixable so don't buy the entire range )

Kanniemeernie , Korperaal
"What we see now is like a dim image in a mirror ...."
ghost in the shell
Message no. 13
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Ice Heart)
Subject: Miniatures and Scenery in gaming
Date: Wed Feb 27 12:50:01 2002
<SNIP>
>as to scenery don't buy train stuff it is overpriced , build your own > (
>that's what the train hobbyists do anyway ) try styrofoam broken to > rough
>edge and then painted for a hedge , or small balls of styrofoam > on
>toothpicks or steel wool for trees , buildings Hmmm , lego or > paper
>and masking tape ( your choice ) , when you spend more on the
>scenery than on the miniature your wasting ,

Further scenery building tips:

What you need:
White bounty paper towels (patterns ruin the finished product)
Gallon of Elmers Glue (or Elmers Wood Glue, to be explained)
Food coloring (or cloth dye, but your hands get colorful)
Lightweight wire, styronfoam, old cereal boxes
No more artistic talent than I have (as in everyone else in the world)

What you do:
Build very rough shapes out of wire, cardboard, etc.
Make a mixture of glue, water, and food color (of choice)into a paste about
the consistancy of buttermilk
Soak sheets of paper towel in paste and mold into desired shape on frames of
wire/cardboard/etc.
Use different colored mixes for more realistic effect.
Let dry. (until dry, nearly infinite shaping is possible)

For faster drying mix (to use where the weight of wet towel will pull things
out of shape) use wood glue, but this will dry to the point where you cannot
shape it in less than a minute

Once dry, cheap paint can be used to touch things up further, I like finger
paints for this. They are not watery enough to soak into the towel before
drying.

This approach is similar to making paper mache, but does not become flaky
once dry and lasts a LONG time. It is also no where near asa messy. Wire
frame buildings can be attacked to a cardboard base, and covered in a few
sheets, or you can make cut away buildings with a bit more effort. This is
cheap enough that you can even gratify your violent players by tearning
holes where grenades and rockets detonate. Best of all, you can make a 6
block map in about 4 hours, especially with some extra hands. Let the
players contribute something to your GMing efforts. :)

>>>Begin shameless plug<<<
Of course, I do this for D&D. For Shadowrun, I use my DMZ game maps and
pieces. I picked up both copies of DMZ that I own on Ebay, and I see more
copies go up for bid all the time. Check it out and see if it falls in your
price range. It is well worth it, if only for a neat addition to your SR
collection. ;)
>>>End shameless plug<<<

Korishinzo

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Message no. 14
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gak The Great)
Subject: Miniatures and Scenery in gaming
Date: Sun Apr 7 09:00:01 2002
Sometime, somwhere down the timeline, Ice Heart whispered:
<snip>
> >>>Begin shameless plug<<<
> Of course, I do this for D&D. For Shadowrun, I use my DMZ game maps and
> pieces. I picked up both copies of DMZ that I own on Ebay, and I see more
> copies go up for bid all the time. Check it out and see if it falls in
your
> price range. It is well worth it, if only for a neat addition to your SR
> collection. ;)
> >>>End shameless plug<<<
>
Er.. *blushes ashamed* what's DMZ?

-- GAK THE GREAT

I don't suffer from insanity,
I enjoy every moment of it!
Message no. 15
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lars Wagner Hansen)
Subject: Miniatures and Scenery in gaming
Date: Sun Apr 7 10:20:01 2002
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gak The Great" <andypfister@***.net>

> Er.. *blushes ashamed* what's DMZ?

It usualy stands for De-Militarized Zone, but Fasa used it for Downtown
Militarized Zone, FASA#7111, a SR boardgame, not very good IMO, read more
about it at http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/shadowrun/7100.html#11

Lars
Message no. 16
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Miniatures and Scenery in gaming
Date: Sun Apr 7 14:00:01 2002
According to Lars Wagner Hansen, on Sun, 07 Apr 2002 the word on the street was...

> It usualy stands for De-Militarized Zone, but Fasa used it for Downtown
> Militarized Zone, FASA#7111, a SR boardgame, not very good IMO, read more
> about it at http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/shadowrun/7100.html#11

The short version of that: they should have developed a new rules system for it,
instead of adapting BattleTroops to the SR setting.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Dat is de kip voor het ei spannen.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++@ UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--) O
V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 17
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Ice Heart)
Subject: Miniatures and Scenery in gaming
Date: Sun Apr 7 14:35:01 2002
"Lars Wagner Hansen"

> > Er.. *blushes ashamed* what's DMZ?

>It usualy stands for De-Militarized Zone, but Fasa used it for Downtown
>Militarized Zone, FASA#7111, a SR boardgame, not very good IMO, read >more
>about it at http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/shadowrun/7100.html#11

>Lars

The game needs work, agreed, but I have ebnjoyed it after employing a few
revisions. And it works fairly well for resolving visualization problems in
SR TT games.

Korishinzo

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