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Message no. 1
From: James Mick sinabian@********.net
Subject: Missing Guns?
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 10:08:59 -0400
I just noticed recently and confirmed with my old trusty FoF book... Is
there any reason that when they moved on to 3rd edition Shadowrun dumped
some of their guns? There was a sniper rifle missing that I know of at least
(the Ranger Arms...I always got the Barrett but I still noticed)...
Message no. 2
From: SyphonAC@***.com SyphonAC@***.com
Subject: Missing Guns?
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 11:20:03 EDT
In a message dated 8/2/00 10:04:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
sinabian@********.net writes:

> I just noticed recently and confirmed with my old trusty FoF book... Is
> there any reason that when they moved on to 3rd edition Shadowrun dumped
> some of their guns? There was a sniper rifle missing that I know of at
least
> (the Ranger Arms...I always got the Barrett but I still noticed)...

::shrugs:: they couldn't fit everything from FoF and the SamCatalog into the
Cannon Companion? Nah, I imagine it was for some kind of game balance
consideration. Which is rather silly as I've known players who min/max to the
point they could be just as fatal with a frozen salmon as with a sniper rifle.

Syphon
Message no. 3
From: James Mick sinabian@********.net
Subject: Missing Guns?
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 11:30:44 -0400
>::shrugs:: they couldn't fit everything from FoF and the SamCatalog into
the
>Cannon Companion? Nah, I imagine it was for some kind of game balance
>consideration. Which is rather silly as I've known players who min/max to
the
>point they could be just as fatal with a frozen salmon as with a sniper
rifle.
>
>Syphon
>

Which brings me to a problem I'm going to have in a future campaign. I'll be
starting up SR in another state here when I move at the end of the
month...but one of the players is experienced (we've been playing together
half a year) and spoiled. (one of the GMs let her have 2 assault cannons)
I'm not wanting to let my players have anything past assault rifle in the
tables (which still allows them access to shotguns, snipers, sports, etc...
but no machine guns...) with the exception of grenade launchers and nothing
bigger than light security armor. Am I being unreasonable in this? Also, a
complication (though personal, it still makes it difficult to handle this
situations) is that the player in question is my fiancee...

Help?!?
Message no. 4
From: SyphonAC@***.com SyphonAC@***.com
Subject: Missing Guns?
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 12:03:11 EDT
In a message dated 8/2/00 11:26:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
sinabian@********.net writes:

> Which brings me to a problem I'm going to have in a future campaign. I'll be
> starting up SR in another state here when I move at the end of the
> month...but one of the players is experienced (we've been playing together
> half a year) and spoiled. (one of the GMs let her have 2 assault cannons)
> I'm not wanting to let my players have anything past assault rifle in the
> tables (which still allows them access to shotguns, snipers, sports, etc...
> but no machine guns...) with the exception of grenade launchers and nothing
> bigger than light security armor. Am I being unreasonable in this? Also, a
> complication (though personal, it still makes it difficult to handle this
> situations) is that the player in question is my fiancee...
>
> Help?!?
>

Hmm...I would say you're not being unreasonable, just make sure that in the
course of the adventure and probably even during character creation, you make
sure to tell them they won't be facing anything that requires that kind of
weaponry. If the players know from the start that they won't be taking down
the 3rd Marine Corps, they'll feel less inclined to bring along gear that
could do it. If all else fails just make the weapons you don't want them to
have beyond their price range. It may not be totally realistic in and of
itself, but you could alawys just claim that the extra cost reflects the fact
that military grade weaponry isn't available at the local five and dime.

Syphon
Message no. 5
From: James Mick sinabian@********.net
Subject: Missing Guns?
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 12:15:20 -0400
>Hmm...I would say you're not being unreasonable, just make sure that in the
>course of the adventure and probably even during character creation, you
make
>sure to tell them they won't be facing anything that requires that kind of
>weaponry. If the players know from the start that they won't be taking down
>the 3rd Marine Corps, they'll feel less inclined to bring along gear that
>could do it. If all else fails just make the weapons you don't want them to
>have beyond their price range. It may not be totally realistic in and of
>itself, but you could alawys just claim that the extra cost reflects the
fact
>that military grade weaponry isn't available at the local five and dime.
>
>Syphon
>

Thanks for the advice...hopefully that will be sufficient.

"This is 1955. I'm sure where you come from you can just get plutonium from
the local five and dime..." (I butchered that I think...)
Message no. 6
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Missing Guns?
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 19:26:45 +0200
According to James Mick, at 11:30 on 2 Aug 00, the word on the street
was...

> Which brings me to a problem I'm going to have in a future campaign. I'll be
> starting up SR in another state here when I move at the end of the
> month...but one of the players is experienced (we've been playing together
> half a year) and spoiled. (one of the GMs let her have 2 assault cannons)
> I'm not wanting to let my players have anything past assault rifle in the
> tables (which still allows them access to shotguns, snipers, sports, etc...
> but no machine guns...) with the exception of grenade launchers and nothing
> bigger than light security armor. Am I being unreasonable in this?

Not at all, provided the opposition isn't too tough to take on like this.
The best way to go about it, it seems to me, is to explain all this to the
players before they make their characters. Tell them that you want to run
a street-level campaign where assault rifles are weapons to be feared --
so the bad guys won't have them either -- and ask them to keep that in
mind when making their characters. If someone does buy the heavy stuff,
ask for a reason, and give your reasons for not wanting it in the
campaign. Adding "at least for now" might help, too, as long as you take
care never to actually define how long "for now" means :)

> Also, a complication (though personal, it still makes it difficult to
> handle this situations) is that the player in question is my fiancee...

I'd say the above applies to her, too -- talk to her, explain what you
have in mind for the campaign, and so on.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Sloan Poa!
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X+ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 7
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Missing Guns?
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 19:26:45 +0200
According to James Mick, at 10:08 on 2 Aug 00, the word on the street
was...

> I just noticed recently and confirmed with my old trusty FoF book... Is
> there any reason that when they moved on to 3rd edition Shadowrun dumped
> some of their guns? There was a sniper rifle missing that I know of at least
> (the Ranger Arms...I always got the Barrett but I still noticed)...

Perhaps that's because the Ranger Arms SM-3 is, and always has been,
listed in the main rulebook?

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Sloan Poa!
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X+ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 8
From: James Mick sinabian@********.net
Subject: Missing Guns?
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 13:32:48 -0400
> I just noticed recently and confirmed with my old trusty FoF book... Is
> there any reason that when they moved on to 3rd edition Shadowrun dumped
> some of their guns? There was a sniper rifle missing that I know of at
least
> (the Ranger Arms...I always got the Barrett but I still noticed)...

Perhaps that's because the Ranger Arms SM-3 is, and always has been,
listed in the main rulebook?


So they have it...just not in the Cannon Companion? I guess that would make
sense though I thought the CC was supposed to be comprehensive like FoF was?
Message no. 9
From: Aristotle antithesis@**********.com
Subject: Missing Guns?
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 13:28:24 -0400
>>>James Mick said:
I just noticed recently and confirmed with my old trusty FoF book... Is
there any reason that when they moved on to 3rd edition Shadowrun dumped
some of their guns? There was a sniper rifle missing that I know of at
least(the Ranger Arms...I always got the Barrett but I still noticed)...


>>>Reply:
Isn't the Ranger Arms in the core SR3 book?

Confused,
--Travis "Aristotle" Heldibridle
Message no. 10
From: James Mick sinabian@********.net
Subject: Missing Guns?
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 13:37:56 -0400
>>>>Reply:
>Isn't the Ranger Arms in the core SR3 book?
>
>Confused,
>--Travis "Aristotle" Heldibridle
>

Could be. I haven't had the chance to pick that one up yet. I wouldn't even
have the Companion but my roommate picked that up with one of his paychecks.
Message no. 11
From: Lars Wagner Hansen l-hansen@*****.tele.dk
Subject: Missing Guns?
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 23:13:52 +0200
----- Original Message -----
From: James Mick <sinabian@********.net>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 4:08 PM
Subject: Missing Guns?


> I just noticed recently and confirmed with my old trusty FoF book... Is
> there any reason that when they moved on to 3rd edition Shadowrun dumped
> some of their guns? There was a sniper rifle missing that I know of at
least
> (the Ranger Arms...I always got the Barrett but I still noticed)...


But the Ranger Arms is in CC, right on page 117

Lars
--
The solution to many problems lies in having somebody else do the work.
[Andrew S. Tanenbaum]
--
Lars Wagner Hansen mailto:l-hansen@*****.tele.dk
Jagtvej 11 http://home4.inet.tele.dk/l-hansen
DK-4180 Sorø phone +45 5783 5950
Denmark
Message no. 12
From: Mike & Linda Frankl mlfrankl@***.com
Subject: Missing Guns?
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 18:30:12 -0400
James Mick wrote:
> Am I being unreasonable in this? Also, a
> complication (though personal, it still makes it difficult to handle this
> situations) is that the player in question is my fiancee...
>
> Help?!?

If she's the love of your life she should understand especially since it's
just a game. Backing each other up is an important part of marriage, better
get the rules straight before the rings exchange.

;)

Smilin' Jack

Franklin Isshinryu School of Karate
http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/RallyRd/mlfrankl/fiskhome.htm
Message no. 13
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Missing Guns?
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 11:07:53 +0200
According to James Mick, at 13:32 on 2 Aug 00, the word on the street
was...

> > Perhaps that's because the Ranger Arms SM-3 is, and always has been,
> > listed in the main rulebook?
>
> So they have it...just not in the Cannon Companion? I guess that would
> make sense though I thought the CC was supposed to be comprehensive like
> FoF was?

In what way was FoF "comprehensive"? It had a bunch of new equipment, but
didn't include the older ones except in the data tables in the back of the
book. CC is exactly the same -- existing gear (existing in SR3-era
sourcebooks, that is) isn't in it, except for the data tables. The SM-3 is
on page 117, FYI :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Sloan Poa!
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X+ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 14
From: James Mick sinabian@********.net
Subject: Missing Guns?
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 10:13:27 -0400
In what way was FoF "comprehensive"? It had a bunch of new equipment, but
didn't include the older ones except in the data tables in the back of the
book. CC is exactly the same -- existing gear (existing in SR3-era
sourcebooks, that is) isn't in it, except for the data tables. The SM-3 is
on page 117, FYI :)


Well it may not have had in-detail descriptions of all the weapons but as
far as I know it did have all of the weapons available up to that point.
It's the one I always do my gun-shopping out of during chargen. Didn't know
SM-3 was on page 117 though. Why didn't they just put it with the other 2
sniper rifles?
Message no. 15
From: James Mick sinabian@********.net
Subject: Missing Guns?
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 10:16:37 -0400
>If she's the love of your life she should understand especially since it's
>just a game. Backing each other up is an important part of marriage, better
>get the rules straight before the rings exchange.
>
>;)

LoL! That's a bit severe I think but thanks for the advice!
Message no. 16
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Missing Guns?
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 19:28:14 +0200
According to James Mick, at 10:13 on 3 Aug 00, the word on the street
was...

> Well it may not have had in-detail descriptions of all the weapons but as
> far as I know it did have all of the weapons available up to that point.

Far from it. All the weapons from SRII, the Street Samurai Catalog, the
NAGRL, and Lone Star were not in it -- in fact, FoF only had the weapons
that were new to FoF :) The only thing FoF had that was in an earlier
book, were the IPE grenades (they were in the first-edition SSC but
dropped in the second edition revision, then got reinstated in FoF).

I'm leaving the data tables out of this, mind you. They _were_ up-to-date
with all the weapons released up until that point.

> It's the one I always do my gun-shopping out of during chargen. Didn't
> know SM-3 was on page 117 though. Why didn't they just put it with the
> other 2 sniper rifles?

Because (as I've been trying to explain for a few messages now :) CC only
has "new" weapons [1], not ones that already appear in the SR3 main rules.
Try finding an AK-97 in it, or a Beretta 110-T [2]. You won't, because
they're not in it -- apart from in the data tables again, of course.

[1] "New" is enclosed in quote marks because most of the weapons in CC
already appeared in the SSC, FoF, or other SRII-era books.
[2] This is actually a joke intended for the owners of the SR1 main
rulebook :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Sloan Poa!
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X+ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 17
From: Lars Wagner Hansen l-hansen@*****.tele.dk
Subject: Missing Guns?
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 20:07:31 +0200
----- Original Message -----
From: Gurth <gurth@******.nl>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 7:28 PM
Subject: Re: Missing Guns?


<Snip>
> Try finding an AK-97 in it, or a Beretta 110-T [2]. You won't, because
> they're not in it -- apart from in the data tables again, of course.
>
> [2] This is actually a joke intended for the owners of the SR1 main
> rulebook :)

But at least those days you would know what a weapon would look like,
although you wouldn't have the game-info. These days it's the other way
round.

Lars
--
The solution to many problems lies in having somebody else do the work.
[Andrew S. Tanenbaum]
--
Lars Wagner Hansen mailto:l-hansen@*****.tele.dk
Jagtvej 11 http://home4.inet.tele.dk/l-hansen
DK-4180 Sorø phone +45 5783 5950
Denmark
Message no. 18
From: vocenoctum@****.com vocenoctum@****.com
Subject: Missing Guns?
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 15:25:15 -0400
On Thu, 3 Aug 2000 11:07:53 +0200 "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl> writes:
> In what way was FoF "comprehensive"? It had a bunch of new
> equipment, but
> didn't include the older ones except in the data tables in the back
> of the
> book. CC is exactly the same -- existing gear (existing in SR3-era
> sourcebooks, that is) isn't in it, except for the data tables. The
> SM-3 is
> on page 117, FYI :)
>

They were actually better than that IMO, they (FASA that is) put the
T-Bolt in there, from New Seattle (a 3rd ed book), the only guns (AFAIK)
that aren't are the ones in teh corebook SR3. Guess they assumed you'd
have SR3 before the CC :-)

Vocenoctum
<http://members.xoom.com/vocenoctum>;

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Message no. 19
From: Lars Wagner Hansen l-hansen@*****.tele.dk
Subject: Missing Guns?
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 22:00:09 +0200
----- Original Message -----
From: <vocenoctum@****.com>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 9:25 PM
Subject: Re: Missing Guns?


> They were actually better than that IMO, they (FASA that is) put the
> T-Bolt in there, from New Seattle (a 3rd ed book), the only guns (AFAIK)
> that aren't are the ones in teh corebook SR3.

Nope, they missed the cyberweapons from M&M page 41-43.

Lars
--
The solution to many problems lies in having somebody else do the work.
[Andrew S. Tanenbaum]
--
Lars Wagner Hansen mailto:l-hansen@*****.tele.dk
Jagtvej 11 http://home4.inet.tele.dk/l-hansen
DK-4180 Sorø phone +45 5783 5950
Denmark
Message no. 20
From: Jeff Long jalong8@****.com
Subject: Missing Guns?
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 15:31:45 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lars Wagner Hansen" To:

> Nope, they missed the cyberweapons from M&M page 41-43.

That's because they've always seemed to have considered them more Cyber than
weapon, thus thier location. Or at least that's the way I've considered it.
Thus if its cyber and already in a sourcebook then why reprint it over again
in the CC?

Jalong1
Message no. 21
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Missing Guns?
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 11:09:34 +0200
According to Lars Wagner Hansen, at 20:07 on 3 Aug 00, the word on the
street was...

> But at least those days you would know what a weapon would look like,
> although you wouldn't have the game-info. These days it's the other way
> round.

True, though quite why they included a picture of a weapon that didn't get
any stats... Probably cut the stats at the last minute or something, I
guess.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Sloan Poa!
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X+ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 22
From: Lars Wagner Hansen l-hansen@*****.tele.dk
Subject: Missing Guns?
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 15:21:17 +0200
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Long <jalong8@****.com>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 10:31 PM
Subject: Re: Missing Guns?


> > Nope, they missed the cyberweapons from M&M page 41-43.
>
> That's because they've always seemed to have considered them more Cyber
than
> weapon, thus thier location. Or at least that's the way I've considered
it.
> Thus if its cyber and already in a sourcebook then why reprint it over
again
> in the CC?

Because it's also a weapon. IHMO they should also have been on the compiled
tables in CC.

Lars
--
The solution to many problems lies in having somebody else do the work.
[Andrew S. Tanenbaum]
--
Lars Wagner Hansen mailto:l-hansen@*****.tele.dk
Jagtvej 11 http://home4.inet.tele.dk/l-hansen
DK-4180 Sorø phone +45 5783 5950
Denmark
Message no. 23
From: vocenoctum@****.com vocenoctum@****.com
Subject: Missing Guns?
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 20:22:46 -0400
On Fri, 4 Aug 2000 15:21:17 +0200 "Lars Wagner Hansen"
<l-hansen@*****.tele.dk> writes:
> Because it's also a weapon. IHMO they should also have been on the
> compiled
> tables in CC.
>

I know it wasn't you that said it (well, I'm pretty sure :-)
but, Fields of Fire didn't list them as weapons either. They were on the
cyber equipment charts, but not the firearm charts.

Still, missing one small group of "guns" isn't a big deal to me.
Not like missing the costs for the chemicals in SR3 BBB :-)
(I mean, they added them in M&M, but still...)

Vocenoctum
<http://members.xoom.com/vocenoctum>;

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