Logs for ShadowRN and Associated Mailing Lists

From:	Rip Claw <joe-orc@****.COM>
Subject:	Mixed Breeding
Date:	Tue, 4 Mar 1997 23:18:28 EST

Message no. 1 Dear list members,
I was a little on the curious side and got to wondering..... what
happens if you roll play a character that's mother and father are of two
different races? Can you have a mix character of say, a human and Elf as
a character?
Just curious,
Rip Claw

Are the things that we see or have seen real, or simply part of a dreamly
dream?

From:	Dvixen <Dvixen@********.COM>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Tue, 4 Mar 1997 20:33:16 -0800

Message no. 2 Rip Claw wrote:
> I was a little on the curious side and got to wondering..... what
> happens if you roll play a character that's mother and father are of two
> different races? Can you have a mix character of say, a human and Elf as
> a character?

Look everyone! Another recurring thread!

The accepted ruling is that there can be no half breeds, so if an Elf
and Human decided to have kids, the kids got a 50/50 chance of being
either. Ditto goes for any other mixtures of races.

Which makes me wonder... What about throwbacks? Or is this just passed
off as UGE?

--
Dvixen/Snow Leopard dvixen@********.com
"And I thought First Ones were rare." - Ivanova - Babylon 5
The opinions expressed are those of the myriad voices in my head
(New mailer! Let me know if anything stupid made it through)

From:	Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Wed, 5 Mar 1997 02:31:58 -0500

Message no. 3 At 11:18 PM 3/4/97 EST, Rip Claw wrote these timeless words:
>Dear list members,
> I was a little on the curious side and got to wondering..... what
>happens if you roll play a character that's mother and father are of two
>different races? Can you have a mix character of say, a human and Elf as
>a character?
> Just curious,
> Rip Claw
>
<sigh>

Must be the week of reoccuring threads, eh?

Ok, this is one that was hashed out for a while a couple months back...
(Nightlife? Pete? :)) Basically it comes down to this, and this is going
BTB (By the Book).

1) There are no mixed races... No Half Elves, Hald Dwarves, Dwarf/Elf
mixes, etc. That is straight out of the rulebook. From a rules
standpoint, this is a good thing as it prevents the need to figure out
Advantages and Disadvantages for every combo possible....

Also, It prevents Munchkinism. "I have a character whose Grandparents were
a Dwarf and a human, and whose parents were a Troll and an Elf. So That
means I have the speed and charisma bonus of the Elf, the Willpower of teh
Dwarf, and the Strength, Body, and Dermal plating of a Troll."

2) When different races (Including Human) mate, there is an equal chance
of the baby being born either of the parents metatypeshuman or the other
parents metatype. There is also a VERY slim chance of the baby being born
a different metatype, or being born plain Human.

Bull
--
Now the Offical Shadowrn mailing List Welcome Ork!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****.com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"I finally find a guy I like, and you got to go and kill him!"
-Kom, "Outlanders"

From:	Gweedo The Killer Pimp <yawas@****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Tue, 4 Mar 1997 23:49:28 EST

Message no. 4 On Tue, 4 Mar 1997 20:33:16 -0800 Dvixen <Dvixen@********.COM> writes:
>Rip Claw wrote:
>> I was a little on the curious side and got to wondering..... what
>> happens if you roll play a character that's mother and father are of
>two
>> different races? Can you have a mix character of say, a human and
>Elf as
>> a character?
>
>Look everyone! Another recurring thread!
>
>The accepted ruling is that there can be no half breeds, so if an Elf
>and Human decided to have kids, the kids got a 50/50 chance of being
>either. Ditto goes for any other mixtures of races.
>
>Which makes me wonder... What about throwbacks? Or is this just passed
>off as UGE?
-------
Wouldn't it be just a great roleplaying experience to roleplay a mutt? I
think getting the mods right would be kinda hard on the GM tho. An
Elvish, Ork that's a decker, wouldn't that be a kick to run with. Maybe
I should be quiet before somebody quotes someone else saying the same
thing.

From:	'Spaceman' WD Lee <spaced@*.WASHINGTON.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Tue, 4 Mar 1997 23:40:35 -0800

Message no. 5 On Tue, 4 Mar 1997, Gweedo The Killer Pimp wrote:
# Wouldn't it be just a great roleplaying experience to roleplay a mutt? I
# think getting the mods right would be kinda hard on the GM tho. An
# Elvish, Ork that's a decker, wouldn't that be a kick to run with. Maybe
# I should be quiet before somebody quotes someone else saying the same
# thing.
I'm assuming you mean an Ork with Elf parentage. Yup, it'd be
cool, but the parents would be oddities in any of the "elven" nations.
Actually, I was thinking of a Troll born to dwarves of Halferville. What'd
you do when Junior gets too big for the house? (side note: this reminds me
of the cyberzombie 2 year old Bull had. What happened with him anyway,
Bull?)

The Spaceman |Death before dishonour.
spaced@*.washington.edu |Drugs before lunch.
Check out the Bill Page! | - Aspen Drug & Gun Club
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~spaced/bill.html
GCC/GL d- s:++ a-- C++ U+ P+ L>L++ !E W++ N++ o+ K w !O M-- V--
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From:	Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Wed, 5 Mar 1997 05:57:14 -0500

Message no. 6 At 11:40 PM 3/4/97 -0800, 'Spaceman' WD Lee wrote these timeless words:
>On Tue, 4 Mar 1997, Gweedo The Killer Pimp wrote:
># Wouldn't it be just a great roleplaying experience to roleplay a mutt? I
># think getting the mods right would be kinda hard on the GM tho. An
># Elvish, Ork that's a decker, wouldn't that be a kick to run with. Maybe
># I should be quiet before somebody quotes someone else saying the same
># thing.
> I'm assuming you mean an Ork with Elf parentage. Yup, it'd be
>cool, but the parents would be oddities in any of the "elven" nations.
>
I think he MAY have been referencing a half Elf, half Ork mixture...
SOmething along the lines of : "As big as an Ork, but as quick and smart
as an Elf". If so, the Big-M word springs to mind...:):):)

This is the major problem of mixing races like this... How do you balance
it? To keep it simple, don't allow it...

>Actually, I was thinking of a Troll born to dwarves of Halferville. What'd
>you do when Junior gets too big for the house?
>
This would be really cool, and a lot of fun. That might make for a great
short story... :):)

(side note: this reminds me
>of the cyberzombie 2 year old Bull had. What happened with him anyway,
>Bull?)
>
Sadly, our game time has been somewhat compromised due to conflicting
schedules and such, we haven't gotten to play much in the last few
months... Suffice it to say, the Michael Situation is still up in the
air... I'll be sure and let you all know how that turns out...:):):)

Bull
--
Now the Offical Shadowrn mailing List Welcome Ork!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****.com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"I finally find a guy I like, and you got to go and kill him!"
-Kom, "Outlanders"

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Wed, 5 Mar 1997 10:42:29 +0100

Message no. 7 Rip Claw said on 23:18/ 4 Mar 97...

> I was a little on the curious side and got to wondering..... what
> happens if you roll play a character that's mother and father are of two
> different races? Can you have a mix character of say, a human and Elf as
> a character?

Good to see Dvixen and Bull already answered this one... I can't think of
any new ways of putting it, and I'm too lazy to search through my folder
for last time's posts on this...

Oh, what the hell... Look at SRII page 34 or so, the first page of the
Metahumanity chapter.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Everyone expects a happy ending.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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From:	Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Wed, 5 Mar 1997 10:53:29 +0000

Message no. 8 |
|Dear list members,
| I was a little on the curious side and got to wondering..... what
|happens if you roll play a character that's mother and father are of two
|different races? Can you have a mix character of say, a human and Elf as
|a character?

If you actually look closer at the rules, you'll find that there are no
"half-races".

Humans beget Dwarves/Elves/Trolls/Orcs
Orcs CAN beget Humans, as can trolls/elves and dwarves.
(this is increasingly rare however)

Genotypes have dominance, so it would either be one, or the other, but not a
mixture of both....

(I pity the Dwarf woman who has to give Birth to a Troll baby.....)

:)

(Or are dwarves and elves the most dominant strains????)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:	MC23 <mc23@****.NET>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Wed, 5 Mar 1997 08:49:25 -0500

Message no. 9 Dvixen wrote,
>Which makes me wonder... What about throwbacks? Or is this just passed
>off as UGE?
I would imagine it was something like that. A new player noticed
that Elves often have twins but only one is elven and the other is
usually nonviable. He decided that from that he wanted to play throwback,
a human that was the twin from elven parents that barely lived. That
would also be the basis behind his cyberlimbs and other cyberware which
replaced many failing and crippled "birth defects". He would also have
elven contacts although they wouldn't care much for him because of his
heritage. His concept sold me so I'm letting him run with it.

- MC23, who did like the high throwback rate for the daughters of Giants -

From:	Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Wed, 5 Mar 1997 15:40:39 +0000

Message no. 10 On 4 Mar 97 at 20:33, Dvixen wrote:
[snip half-breeds]
> Look everyone! Another recurring thread!
*grin*

> The accepted ruling is that there can be no half breeds, so if an Elf
> and Human decided to have kids, the kids got a 50/50 chance of being
> either. Ditto goes for any other mixtures of races.
In fact, it's a published rule. A core rule. SRII, p. 34.

> Which makes me wonder... What about throwbacks? Or is this just passed
> off as UGE?
You remember the "other" part of cities' statistics? I suppose some
strange creatures might roam the streets, and some that look like
half-breeds might be among them. Although they might technically not
be half-breeds, for Gaming Purposes one could consider them as such.

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst | *BLAM!* *BLAM!* |
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| Stop! |
| \___ __/ | | *BLAM!* *BLAM!* |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | Police! |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | -- ??? |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+

From:	Oscar <U09549@*****.UIC.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Wed, 5 Mar 1997 08:50:44 CST

Message no. 11 >>Gweedo The Killer Pimp wrote:
>># Wouldn't it be just a great roleplaying experience to roleplay a mutt? I
>># think getting the mods right would be kinda hard on the GM tho. An
>># Elvish, Ork that's a decker, wouldn't that be a kick to run with. Maybe
>># I should be quiet before somebody quotes someone else saying the same
>># thing.
>> I'm assuming you mean an Ork with Elf parentage. Yup, it'd be
>>cool, but the parents would be oddities in any of the "elven" nations.
>>
>I think he MAY have been referencing a half Elf, half Ork mixture...
>SOmething along the lines of : "As big as an Ork, but as quick and smart
>as an Elf". If so, the Big-M word springs to mind...:):):)
>
>This is the major problem of mixing races like this... How do you balance
>it? To keep it simple, don't allow it...

Hi all, I just joined yesterday and decided to jump in on this....

I actually just created a character like this and had a long discussion
with my GM about it. My character is a little bit older and the parents
lived in the Tir. Goblinized into an Orc after a case of severe
starvation in the DMZ between the Tir and the California Free States.

How did I convince my GM to let me do this? Simple, it's there simply
for roleplaying purposes. I used orc advantages and disadvantages.
I use it a lot like my two smartgun links. I'm doing the gun slinger
thing, but only get advantages on one of the guns. It allows me to
change the choke on roomsweepers (imagine that sight) and that's about
it (eject clips with other firearms).

So the bottom line for me is, if it adds color to the character try it
out. Just try not to bend the rules so far that they imbalance the
game. It allows me to play a more unique character, which we all
seem to want. Yet I don't upset the balance of the game. Of course
if he starts throwing all sorts of folks at Stone who hate him because
he's essentially a bastardization of nature, I may say different.

Just my two nuyen.

Oscar

From:	Tim Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Wed, 5 Mar 1997 10:17:10 -0800

Message no. 12 On Tue, 4 Mar 1997, 'Spaceman' WD Lee wrote:

> On Tue, 4 Mar 1997, Gweedo The Killer Pimp wrote:
> # Wouldn't it be just a great roleplaying experience to roleplay a mutt? I
> # think getting the mods right would be kinda hard on the GM tho. An
> # Elvish, Ork that's a decker, wouldn't that be a kick to run with. Maybe
> # I should be quiet before somebody quotes someone else saying the same
> # thing.
> I'm assuming you mean an Ork with Elf parentage. Yup, it'd be
> cool, but the parents would be oddities in any of the "elven" nations.
> Actually, I was thinking of a Troll born to dwarves of Halferville. What'd
> you do when Junior gets too big for the house? (side note: this reminds me
> of the cyberzombie 2 year old Bull had. What happened with him anyway,
> Bull?)

A TROLL born of Dwarven parents?
I don't think his outgrowing the house is the first problem... think of
the mother.

~Tim

From:	Dvixen <Dvixen@********.COM>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Wed, 5 Mar 1997 10:33:24 -0800

Message no. 13 > > The accepted ruling is that there can be no half breeds, so if an Elf
> > and Human decided to have kids, the kids got a 50/50 chance of being
> > either. Ditto goes for any other mixtures of races.
> In fact, it's a published rule. A core rule. SRII, p. 34.

I know. I just figured since I asked this question once before, I'd give
the summary of the answer that got thrown at me...

> > Which makes me wonder... What about throwbacks? Or is this just passed
> > off as UGE?
> You remember the "other" part of cities' statistics? I suppose some
> strange creatures might roam the streets, and some that look like
> half-breeds might be among them. Although they might technically not
> be half-breeds, for Gaming Purposes one could consider them as such.

In our game wwe had an Ork/Elf halfer, but that was due to a corp
diddling with his DNA. Imagine his surprise when the brainwipe wore off
and he could remember living in the Japanese Racial camps, instead of
being a happy child from the Tir.

--

Dvixen dvixen@********.com
"And I thought First Ones were rare." - Ivanova - Babylon 5
I have no sense of decency. That way, all my other senses are enhanced

From:	'Spaceman' WD Lee <spaced@*.WASHINGTON.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Wed, 5 Mar 1997 11:18:38 -0800

Message no. 14 On Wed, 5 Mar 1997, Tim Cooper wrote:
# A TROLL born of Dwarven parents?
# I don't think his outgrowing the house is the first problem... think of
# the mother.

Well, you'd have to C-section, but carrying it term wouldn't
necessarily be that much of a problem. Think of all the stories in the
news the past year of women with quadruplets, etc. That argues for enough
space in the womb, although Mom probably wouldn't move for the last two
months. Or how about a human born to dwarves, who goblinizes into a troll
in puberty. Can you imagine how confusing _that_ would be to the kid?

The Spaceman |I want to drink it up and swim in it
spaced@*.washington.edu |until I drown, My moral standing is
Check out the Bill Page! |lying down - Nine Inch Nails
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~spaced/bill.html
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MPA/SH/TA S G Q+ 666 y W C++ N+ PEC+++ Dr

From:	Tim Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Wed, 5 Mar 1997 11:39:15 -0800

Message no. 15 On Wed, 5 Mar 1997, 'Spaceman' WD Lee wrote:

> On Wed, 5 Mar 1997, Tim Cooper wrote:
> # A TROLL born of Dwarven parents?
> # I don't think his outgrowing the house is the first problem... think of
> # the mother.
>
> Well, you'd have to C-section, but carrying it term wouldn't
> necessarily be that much of a problem. Think of all the stories in the
> news the past year of women with quadruplets, etc. That argues for enough
> space in the womb, although Mom probably wouldn't move for the last two
> months. Or how about a human born to dwarves, who goblinizes into a troll
> in puberty. Can you imagine how confusing _that_ would be to the kid?

Yeah, but you have to remember that it's not 4 normal sized babies, it's
about 4 babies that collectively equal about the same mass as a normal
sized baby.

As for the dwarf -> human -> troll thing, well it might just make him
screwed up enough to take up running the shadows.

On a similar subject, there's a PC in my group who is a human born to
Orks, and practically considers himself an ork. He grew up in the
Underground, and pretty much prefers the company of Orks and Trolls to
humans. He and my Ork street sam were memebers of the same gang growing
up.

~Tim

From:	Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Wed, 5 Mar 1997 17:39:04 -0500

Message no. 16 At 08:50 AM 3/5/97 CST, Oscar wrote these timeless words:

>Hi all, I just joined yesterday and decided to jump in on this....
>
Welcome to the list!!!! Hope you like mail...:):):)

Bull-the-welcome-Ork
--
Now the Offical Shadowrn mailing List Welcome Ork!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****.com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"You know, I think I had a dream that I'd go out like
this, only I was wearing a dress."
-Mighty max

From:	Caric <caric@*******.COM>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Wed, 5 Mar 1997 13:13:46 -0700

Message no. 17 > >Hi all, I just joined yesterday and decided to jump in on this....
> >
> Welcome to the list!!!! Hope you like mail...:):):)
>
> Bull-the-welcome-Ork

I knew it...no wonder Bull always responds he's been a Bot this whole time.

~Caric

"All the world's indeed a stage, we are mearly players.
Performers and portrayers. Each anothers audience,
outside the gilded cage." -Rush
caric@*******.com

From:	Rip Claw <joe-orc@****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Wed, 5 Mar 1997 16:35:36 EST

Message no. 18 >(I pity the Dwarf woman who has to give Birth to a Troll baby.....)
------------------------
to:spike,

I find that responce VERY funny, imagine the mating rituals
between the two.... looks like a monkey fucking a football to me....

Joe

Are the things that we see or have seen real, or simply part of a dreamly
dream?

From:	Rip Claw <joe-orc@****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Wed, 5 Mar 1997 16:35:36 EST

Message no. 19 >You remember the "other" part of cities' statistics? I suppose some
>strange creatures might roam the streets, and some that look like
>half-breeds might be among them. Although they might technically not
>be half-breeds, for Gaming Purposes one could consider them as such.
>
> Sascha
-------------------------
TO: Sascha,
what if the when the person is making the character he flips a
coin to determin which traits he gets and which ones he doesn't wouldn't
that be fair if he does this infront of the GM?

Joe

Are the things that we see or have seen real, or simply part of a dreamly
dream?

From:	Rip Claw <joe-orc@****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Wed, 5 Mar 1997 16:35:36 EST

Message no. 20 >Must be the week of reoccuring threads, eh?

>
>1) There are no mixed races... No Half Elves, Hald Dwarves,
>Dwarf/Elf
>mixes, etc. That is straight out of the rulebook. From a rules
>standpoint, this is a good thing as it prevents the need to figure out
>Advantages and Disadvantages for every combo possible....
>------------------------------
Thanks to every one who helped striaghten this out for me, a lot of my
friends and I wanted to know a little more about the subject on mixed
breeding!

thanks,
Joe

Are the things that we see or have seen real, or simply part of a dreamly
dream?

>

From:	Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Wed, 5 Mar 1997 19:53:57 -0500

Message no. 21 At 04:35 PM 3/5/97 EST, Rip Claw wrote these timeless words:
>>(I pity the Dwarf woman who has to give Birth to a Troll baby.....)
>------------------------
>to:spike,
>
> I find that responce VERY funny, imagine the mating rituals
>between the two.... looks like a monkey fucking a football to me....
>
> Joe
>
Funny... But... Can he say things like that???? :]

That just conjured images that I never wanted to imagine...

<boggle>

Bull-the-slightly-stunned-by-that-image-ork-decker
--
Now the Offical Shadowrn mailing List Welcome Ork!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****.com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"You know, I think I had a dream that I'd go out like
this, only I was wearing a dress."
-Mighty max

From:	Shawn Baumgartner <Breakdown@*****.NET>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Wed, 5 Mar 1997 17:19:49 -0500

Message no. 22 In response to Oscar's post on his half-breed character:

Welcome to the warzo... er, list! I think that playing a mixed breed's a
fine idea (even if the rules say ixnay, we GM's just love to mangle
those :)) as long as balance is maintained and roleplaying is first and
foremost. I kinda like the concept with the dual smartlinks. Throw in
the ambidexterity skill, buy him a Secure Cowboy Hat and a pair of
Warhawks, and have him call everybody "Huckleberry" :)
Guess I watch too many movies. :)

Shawn
Who hasn't lowered himself enough to utter those immortal words: "Do ya
feel lucky, Punk?"

*******************************************
Out of the gutter and into your mailer!

From:	Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Wed, 5 Mar 1997 23:48:32 +0000

Message no. 23 |Funny... But... Can he say things like that???? :]

Errrr. I think he just did....

Do you still have that gaming police radar detector Bull?

|That just conjured images that I never wanted to imagine...

Yup......

Mind you, I've just seen Mars Attacks, so my head is still FULL of wierd
images.....

<Starts humming "When I'm calling
yoooo----oo-o--oooooo----ooo-oo-oooooooo">

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:	Gweedo The Killer Pimp <yawas@****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Wed, 5 Mar 1997 19:00:30 EST

Message no. 24 On Wed, 5 Mar 1997 23:48:32 +0000 Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
writes:
>|Funny... But... Can he say things like that???? :]
>
>Errrr. I think he just did....
>
>Do you still have that gaming police radar detector Bull?
>
>|That just conjured images that I never wanted to imagine...
>
>Yup......
>
>Mind you, I've just seen Mars Attacks, so my head is still FULL of
>wierd
>images.....
>
><Starts humming "When I'm calling
>yoooo----oo-o--oooooo----ooo-oo-oooooooo">
>
>--
Tell me you've said, heard, (or otherwis) those kinda words without weird
images in your head. I'm sure some characters in SR have done more than
just yelled these words. People don't get kicked off for cussing in
these parts, do they?

Gweedo the Killer Pimp strikes again!

From:	Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Thu, 6 Mar 1997 00:11:39 +0000

Message no. 25 |Tell me you've said, heard, (or otherwis) those kinda words without weird
|images in your head. I'm sure some characters in SR have done more than
|just yelled these words. People don't get kicked off for cussing in
|these parts, do they?

Nahhh, but were a polite bunch here....

All you have to do is restrain yourself a little and replace the word "Fuck"
with the word "Frag".

Then, you're even in line with Shadowrun slang....

I think the wierd images conjured up concerned the Monkey....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:	Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Wed, 5 Mar 1997 22:16:19 -0500

Message no. 26 At 11:48 PM 3/5/97 +0000, Spike wrote these timeless words:
>|Funny... But... Can he say things like that???? :]
>
>Errrr. I think he just did....
>
>Do you still have that gaming police radar detector Bull?
>
I never had one... That was Granite...

>|That just conjured images that I never wanted to imagine...
>
>Yup......
>
>Mind you, I've just seen Mars Attacks, so my head is still FULL of wierd
>images.....
>
<grin>

Good flick... Saw it at christmas time...:)

><Starts humming "When I'm calling
yoooo----oo-o--oooooo----ooo-oo-oooooooo">
>
<grimace>

:]
--
Now the Offical Shadowrn mailing List Welcome Ork!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****.com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"You know, I think I had a dream that I'd go out like
this, only I was wearing a dress."
-Mighty max

From:	Gweedo The Killer Pimp <yawas@****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Wed, 5 Mar 1997 19:42:07 EST

Message no. 27 To: Spike
>Nahhh, but were a polite bunch here....
>
>All you have to do is restrain yourself a little and replace the word
>"Fuck"
>with the word "Frag".
>
>Then, you're even in line with Shadowrun slang....
>
>I think the wierd images conjured up concerned the Monkey....
>--
Wellllllll, I'd say that some people are self appointed watchdogs on
almost every list, T.v. show, movie, etc. Those people aren't polite.
I myself find it easier not to cuss when I'm on the 'pooter but
in RL it's like anything goes with me. Sometimes on the list I might
not me thinking, and I think Rip Claw does that too, sometimes you'll
just have to excuse our "french".
Point is, it's better to just let some stuff go, so that you can do what
everybody mailes the list for, Shadowrun, and gum bumping about it. Just
let yourself go sometimes, it'll do wonders for you.

Gweedo the Killer Pimp strikes again!

From:	Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Wed, 5 Mar 1997 22:43:04 -0500

Message no. 28 At 12:11 AM 3/6/97 +0000, Spike wrote these timeless words:
>|Tell me you've said, heard, (or otherwis) those kinda words without weird
>|images in your head. I'm sure some characters in SR have done more than
>|just yelled these words. People don't get kicked off for cussing in
>|these parts, do they?
>
No... I've even broken down and cussed someone out once (But that was
during the OS Wars:]) Don't sweat it, Gweedo...

>Nahhh, but were a polite bunch here....
>
<LOL!>

Spike, polite??

<Very BIG Grin>

>All you have to do is restrain yourself a little and replace the word "Fuck"
>with the word "Frag".
>
>Then, you're even in line with Shadowrun slang....
>
That's the generally more acceptable usage... Plus, usually when the word
Fuck is used, we KNOW someone's pissed about something...:]

>I think the wierd images conjured up concerned the Monkey....
>
Exactly... That was just a funky image, and sent my brain spinning for a
few minutes...

Bull
--
Now the Offical Shadowrn mailing List Welcome Ork!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****.com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"You know, I think I had a dream that I'd go out like
this, only I was wearing a dress."
-Mighty max

From:	Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Thu, 6 Mar 1997 00:50:42 +0000

Message no. 29 |Wellllllll, I'd say that some people are self appointed watchdogs on
|almost every list, T.v. show, movie, etc. Those people aren't polite.

Trooo.... They're a pain in the arse....
(Unless you were referring to me. I very rarely flame, and try to advise
people on formatting stuff....)

| I myself find it easier not to cuss when I'm on the 'pooter but
|in RL it's like anything goes with me. Sometimes on the list I might
|not me thinking, and I think Rip Claw does that too, sometimes you'll
|just have to excuse our "french".

<aol>

Me too

</aol>

|Point is, it's better to just let some stuff go, so that you can do what
|everybody mailes the list for, Shadowrun, and gum bumping about it. Just
|let yourself go sometimes, it'll do wonders for you.

Well.... It wasn't me that started this one....
I just added a comment from someone else....

:)

(And stop taking things so seriously.... Note the smilies....)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:	Dark Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Wed, 5 Mar 1997 05:12:17 +0000

Message no. 30 In article <3.0.1.16.19970304233035.2e97fbb0@*****.com>, Bull
<chaos@*****.COM> writes
>

>Must be the week of reoccuring threads, eh?

Isn't it always <grin> But then, new people, want to know the answers
to questions. If they happen to be questions already asked, well...

>Ok, this is one that was hashed out for a while a couple months back...
>(Nightlife? Pete? :)) Basically it comes down to this, and this is going
>BTB (By the Book).

Erm, well sort of. Nightlife and I agreed to disagree on whether or not
Frogs could mutate, I used movie ideas, and Nightlife tore out half his
hair in frustration before he realised I was winding him up. <g> Though
I guess mixed races may have started the frog debate <g>

>1) There are no mixed races... No Half Elves, Hald Dwarves, Dwarf/Elf
>mixes, etc. That is straight out of the rulebook. From a rules
>standpoint, this is a good thing as it prevents the need to figure out
>Advantages and Disadvantages for every combo possible....

Erm. Although it does give a cross breeding table in the manual, I
still maintain that just because they haven't been discovered, doesn't
mean they don't exist. <snigger - dives into bomb shelter> For example,
the "new" races Fasa spit out from time to time.

>Also, It prevents Munchkinism. "I have a character whose Grandparents were
>a Dwarf and a human, and whose parents were a Troll and an Elf. So That
>means I have the speed and charisma bonus of the Elf, the Willpower of teh
>Dwarf, and the Strength, Body, and Dermal plating of a Troll."

Not necessarily, but I'm not going to start _that_ again :)

>2) When different races (Including Human) mate, there is an equal chance
>of the baby being born either of the parents metatypeshuman or the other
>parents metatype. There is also a VERY slim chance of the baby being born
>a different metatype, or being born plain Human.

Mainly its got a 50/50 chance of being either, but not both. As for a
different metatype, that seems to be down to locale of birth, which
means the child could be a minotaur or Ogre or somesuch if it's born
somewhere in Europe but not the US (yeah, right). Like why not? And
don't tell me it's something in the water.

--
__ \ | \
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A dark shadow in a dark world |___/

From:	Gweedo The Killer Pimp <yawas@****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Wed, 5 Mar 1997 19:52:08 EST

Message no. 31 To: Bull
>No... I've even broken down and cussed someone out once (But that was
>during the OS Wars:]) Don't sweat it, Gweedo...
----
Well I figured that most people playing SR do that once in their life.
-----
><LOL!>
>
>Spike, polite??
>
><Very BIG Grin>
----
Very Big Grins mean somebody know's something I don't
------

>That's the generally more acceptable usage... Plus, usually when the
>word
>Fuck is used, we KNOW someone's pissed about something...:]
-----
Like the Great Calvin Said: "It's hard going through life without knowing
any cusswords.
------
>Exactly... That was just a funky image, and sent my brain spinning
>for a
>few minutes...
-----
I was the one who thought of the Monkey ummmm, uhhhhh, doing the good and
plenty with a football. Send all of your compliments to me.

Gweedo the Killer Pimp strikes again!

From:	Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Thu, 6 Mar 1997 01:00:30 +0000

Message no. 32 |>Spike, polite??

Hey, most of the time I'm a kitten....
(Unless you've seen my picture, in which case.... Err...
Never mind....)
|>
|><Very BIG Grin>
|----
|Very Big Grins mean somebody know's something I don't

Yep.... They do at that....

:)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:	L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Wed, 5 Mar 1997 21:02:07 EST

Message no. 33 On Wed, 5 Mar 1997 05:12:17 +0000 Dark Avenger
<Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK> writes:
<snip>
>>1) There are no mixed races... No Half Elves, Hald Dwarves,
>Dwarf/Elf
>>mixes, etc. That is straight out of the rulebook. From a rules
>>standpoint, this is a good thing as it prevents the need to figure
>out
>>Advantages and Disadvantages for every combo possible....
>
>Erm. Although it does give a cross breeding table in the manual, I
>still maintain that just because they haven't been discovered, doesn't
>mean they don't exist. <snigger - dives into bomb shelter> For
>example,
>the "new" races Fasa spit out from time to time.

Ah, but those are only variants of the norm, not half-breeds per se.

>
>>Also, It prevents Munchkinism. "I have a character whose
>Grandparents were
>>a Dwarf and a human, and whose parents were a Troll and an Elf. So
>That
>>means I have the speed and charisma bonus of the Elf, the Willpower
>of teh
>>Dwarf, and the Strength, Body, and Dermal plating of a Troll."
>
>Not necessarily, but I'm not going to start _that_ again :)
>
>>2) When different races (Including Human) mate, there is an equal
>chance
>>of the baby being born either of the parents metatypeshuman or the
>other
>>parents metatype. There is also a VERY slim chance of the baby being
>born
>>a different metatype, or being born plain Human.
>
>Mainly its got a 50/50 chance of being either, but not both. As for a
>different metatype, that seems to be down to locale of birth, which
>means the child could be a minotaur or Ogre or somesuch if it's born
>somewhere in Europe but not the US (yeah, right). Like why not? And
>don't tell me it's something in the water.

'Course not. It's something in the mana in the surrounding astral space;)

--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/

From:	NightLife <habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Thu, 6 Mar 1997 00:10:57 -0500

Message no. 34 Don't make me throw in my two cents on this mixed breeding thread. I believe
Pete should well remeber that last genetics debate. I almost got as violent
as net speak could get. Unless you want to throw magic in the mixture the
basic genetic technology of the game and reality does not allow for dwarf +
troll = twarf or droll you get the idea it equal dwarf + troll = either
dwarf, troll, or even more rarely human or onw of the other meta species.
Not funky new half breed.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Goodie!
Maybe it's those Rocket Skates I ordered from the ACME company!
The last pair backfired and almost blew my legs halfway to my Duodenum.
But I'll get that pesky Road Runner yet.
With My Life's Blood I swear it!

"Deadpool #3"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

From:	NightLife <habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Thu, 6 Mar 1997 00:25:26 -0500

Message no. 35 >Erm, well sort of. Nightlife and I agreed to disagree on whether or not
>Frogs could mutate, I used movie ideas, and Nightlife tore out half his
>hair in frustration before he realised I was winding him up. <g> Though
>I guess mixed races may have started the frog debate <g>

You used the frog exampleas a exaple of mutation of sex not a correct one
like species mutation and I just shredded it. Can I help I've got a good
background in science. As for tearing my hair out. hmmmm no but I tore out a
sink from the wall it was bolted to. ;-)

>>1) There are no mixed races... No Half Elves, Hald Dwarves, Dwarf/Elf
>>mixes, etc. That is straight out of the rulebook. From a rules
>>standpoint, this is a good thing as it prevents the need to figure out
>>Advantages and Disadvantages for every combo possible....
>
>Erm. Although it does give a cross breeding table in the manual, I
>still maintain that just because they haven't been discovered, doesn't
>mean they don't exist. <snigger - dives into bomb shelter> For example,
>the "new" races Fasa spit out from time to time.

Which aren't half breeds just variants of the original theme. Like blacks,
whites, asian, etc.

You better lock that bomb shelter. I know you're in there and I've got an
missile strike on stand by. < sneaking around placing bobs all over the
shelter. > Come on out I dare you. Hahahahahah! Shiny red button that goes
BOOOM! Come out and play hahahahahaha. Boom baby boom! An object at rest
cannot be stopped!
Half breed hahahahaha! No evil half breeds.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Goodie!
Maybe it's those Rocket Skates I ordered from the ACME company!
The last pair backfired and almost blew my legs halfway to my Duodenum.
But I'll get that pesky Road Runner yet.
With My Life's Blood I swear it!

"Deadpool #3"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Thu, 6 Mar 1997 10:25:52 +0100

Message no. 36 Tim Cooper said on 10:17/ 5 Mar 97...

> A TROLL born of Dwarven parents?
> I don't think his outgrowing the house is the first problem... think of
> the mother.

I think outgrowing the house _is_ the first problem... :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
'K moest kloppen want de bel doet het niet.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
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Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

From:	Shawn Baumgartner <Breakdown@*****.NET>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Thu, 6 Mar 1997 05:17:50 -0500

Message no. 37 In response to Gweedo's mention of a small jungle animal's deviant
sexual practices:

I guess I'm the only other dude on the list to have ever heard that
phrase. Must be my Navy background ("Swears like a sailor" and all
that.)

Shawn
Who tries like hell to keep his language somewhat polite (and usually
fails miserably.)

*******************************************
Out of the gutter and into your mailer!

From:	Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Thu, 6 Mar 1997 13:19:23 +0000

Message no. 38 On 5 Mar 97 at 16:35, Rip Claw wrote:
[snip "other" as possible half-breeds]
> TO: Sascha,
> what if the when the person is making the character he flips a
> coin to determin which traits he gets and which ones he doesn't wouldn't
> that be fair if he does this infront of the GM?
*looks arpund panickdly: Why just to me?*
If your GM agrees with a half-breed, it's absolutly OK IMHO to play a
half-breed. Just expect to be looked at as a freak, and have your GM
decide which rules to use to determine the stats. I bet the player
running a "half-ork-half-elf" in my game didn't expect that racism he
gets - OTOH, _I_ didn't expect that kind of character he developed
from it. Go for it, can be a great roleplaying opportunity!

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | G. Santayana |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+

From:	Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Thu, 6 Mar 1997 13:19:23 +0000

Message no. 39 On 5 Mar 97 at 11:18, 'Spaceman' WD Lee wrote:
[snip]
> Or how about a human born to dwarves, who goblinizes into a troll
> in puberty. Can you imagine how confusing _that_ would be to the kid?
Or to the parents... Check "Guards! Guards!" by T. Pratchett for
possible results :-)

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst | *BLAM!* *BLAM!* |
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| Stop! |
| \___ __/ | | *BLAM!* *BLAM!* |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | Police! |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | -- ??? |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+

From:	Dark Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Thu, 6 Mar 1997 22:02:41 +0000

Message no. 40 In article <19970305.210117.12390.1.lobo1@****.com>, L Canthros
<lobo1@****.COM> writes
>On Wed, 5 Mar 1997 05:12:17 +0000 Dark Avenger
><Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK> writes:
><snip>

>>mean they don't exist. <snigger - dives into bomb shelter> For
>>example,
>>the "new" races Fasa spit out from time to time.
>
>Ah, but those are only variants of the norm, not half-breeds per se.

True enough, but only by definition. As an Ogre is a variant of Ork, it
could be considered a cross between human and Ork (very loosely of
course), as it holds the traits of Ork, and the smooth skin of a human.

<just me rambling - ignore at will> <g>

>>means the child could be a minotaur or Ogre or somesuch if it's born
>>somewhere in Europe but not the US (yeah, right). Like why not? And
>>don't tell me it's something in the water.
>
>'Course not. It's something in the mana in the surrounding astral space;)

Oh I see... Well, that's as good an excuse as I've heard to date. It
will do :)

--
__ \ | \
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A dark shadow in a dark world |___/

From:	Dark Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Thu, 6 Mar 1997 21:57:34 +0000

Message no. 41 In article <m0w2cAe-0004wdC@*******.Informatik.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>, Sascha
Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE> writes

>If your GM agrees with a half-breed, it's absolutly OK IMHO to play a
>half-breed. Just expect to be looked at as a freak,

Why?

What is the difference between an Elf, and a Half-Elf. For example a
Vulcan and a half Vulcan? Spock doesn't look any different to a normal
Vulcan, why should a half elf look different?

What are you saying here, that he/she's got three arms or four eyes,
maybe there's something more fundamental, he/she's only half a person...
One arm, one leg, and half a body. I disagree entirely that this person
is a freak, unless you are going to label present day cross culture
births as freaks.

There are not necessarily glaring differences between cross culture/race
births, unless it is something extreme. One of the genes is likely to
dominate. What is so strange about a troll sized human.. We have damn
big humans now. A human sized troll may be odd, but not uneccessarily
so. Freak? I don't think so.

--
__ \ | \
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A dark shadow in a dark world |___/

From:	"Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Thu, 6 Mar 1997 19:35:34 -0500

Message no. 42 > There are not necessarily glaring differences between cross culture/race
> births, unless it is something extreme. One of the genes is likely to
> dominate. What is so strange about a troll sized human.. We have damn
> big humans now.

Bull and I can attest to that fact! :-)

Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com./users/bluewizard
"But I don't have any skin!"

From:	Dark Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Thu, 6 Mar 1997 22:05:11 +0000

Message no. 43 In article <199703060510.AAA22610@******.san.uc.edu>, NightLife
<habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU> writes
>Don't make me throw in my two cents on this mixed breeding thread.

I should still have those messages somewhere, I could throw them in for
you if you want <smirk>

>I believe
>Pete should well remeber that last genetics debate.

Only vaguely <grin> Something about... Nope, I'll behave :)

>I almost got as violent
>as net speak could get.

Yeah, you did get a little warm under the collar... Never mind, a cold
shower of reality soon helped. :)

>dwarf, troll, or even more rarely human or onw of the other meta species.
>Not funky new half breed.

Not yet anyway. I'm still talking to the bioengineers that survived the
dino breakout, and they promise to have a new version ready for summer
<g>

--
__ \ | \
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A dark shadow in a dark world |___/

From:	Dark Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Thu, 6 Mar 1997 22:12:46 +0000

Message no. 44 In article <199703060525.AAA07936@******.san.uc.edu>, NightLife
<habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU> writes

>>hair in frustration before he realised I was winding him up. <g> Though
>>I guess mixed races may have started the frog debate <g>
>
>You used the frog exampleas a exaple of mutation of sex not a correct one
>like species mutation and I just shredded it.

Shredded??? Obliterated would be more accurate. :)

>Can I help I've got a good
>background in science.

Can I help it if I like movies? (Don't answer that.)

>As for tearing my hair out. hmmmm no but I tore out a
>sink from the wall it was bolted to. ;-)

Oooh, poor sink. Now did it make you feel better, or just make the
place wet? :) Now I understand, I thought that was your hair attached
to the posts, and it now transpires it was in fact the hair caught in
the trap... Oh well. :)

>>mean they don't exist. <snigger - dives into bomb shelter> For example,
>>the "new" races Fasa spit out from time to time.
>
>Which aren't half breeds just variants of the original theme. Like blacks,
>whites, asian, etc.

Yeah, I know that. All the same though. It could be... with a broad
stretch of the imagination. :)

>You better lock that bomb shelter.

It's always locked. :-P

>I know you're in there and I've got an
>missile strike on stand by.

Doesn't matter, it's invulnerable. :) It's guarded by armed w***ch***s

>< sneaking around placing bobs all over the
>shelter. > Come on out I dare you.

But I don't need to... I have a sat-uplink. :)

>Hahahahahah! Shiny red button that goes
>BOOOM! Come out and play hahahahahaha. Boom baby boom! An object at rest
>cannot be stopped!

I have been blown up by the best, and still survive. Your weedy bombs
hold bo fear for me Nightlife. :)

>Half breed hahahahaha! No evil half breeds.

Really? Hmmm... I detect a challenge here. OK, reaches for pile of
books and starts searching for possible examples of half breeds. <g>
(I bet there's something in these books I can use...)

Well now. There are a couple of possible examples of potential cross
breeding.
Ogre, (Human+Orc)
Minotaur, (Ogre+Orc)
halfwit.... :) (munchkin+munchkin)
Munchy immortal elves, (elf+dragon+munchkin). I'm sure I can find other
potential stretches of the ridiculous <g> How's that red button of
yours Nightlife? Got it unstuck yet?

--
__ \ | \
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A dark shadow in a dark world |___/

From:	NightLife <habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Thu, 6 Mar 1997 20:55:15 -0500

Message no. 45 >True enough, but only by definition. As an Ogre is a variant of Ork, it
>could be considered a cross between human and Ork (very loosely of
>course), as it holds the traits of Ork, and the smooth skin of a human.
>
><just me rambling - ignore at will> <g>
>

No the evil machniations of the half breed society strike again. Don't make
me hurt you and blow up your bomb shelter. ;-)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Goodie!
Maybe it's those Rocket Skates I ordered from the ACME company!
The last pair backfired and almost blew my legs halfway to my Duodenum.
But I'll get that pesky Road Runner yet.
With My Life's Blood I swear it!

"Deadpool #3"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

From:	NightLife <habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Thu, 6 Mar 1997 20:57:07 -0500

Message no. 46 >Not yet anyway. I'm still talking to the bioengineers that survived the
>dino breakout, and they promise to have a new version ready for summer
><g>

I will crush your little half breed army.

SO SWEARS THE LEADER!

;-)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Goodie!
Maybe it's those Rocket Skates I ordered from the ACME company!
The last pair backfired and almost blew my legs halfway to my Duodenum.
But I'll get that pesky Road Runner yet.
With My Life's Blood I swear it!

"Deadpool #3"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

From:	NightLife <habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Thu, 6 Mar 1997 21:02:09 -0500

Message no. 47 >Why?
>
>What is the difference between an Elf, and a Half-Elf. For example a
>Vulcan and a half Vulcan? Spock doesn't look any different to a normal
>Vulcan, why should a half elf look different?

Star trek your quoting Star Trek where everything is basically human and can
interbreed. Besides a half vulcan is a example of a merger of two different
races not species like in SR.

>What are you saying here, that he/she's got three arms or four eyes,
>maybe there's something more fundamental, he/she's only half a person...
>One arm, one leg, and half a body. I disagree entirely that this person
>is a freak, unless you are going to label present day cross culture
>births as freaks.

Once again a bad example of crossbreeding remember Black, White, Asian,
Indian are a difference of species.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Goodie!
Maybe it's those Rocket Skates I ordered from the ACME company!
The last pair backfired and almost blew my legs halfway to my Duodenum.
But I'll get that pesky Road Runner yet.
With My Life's Blood I swear it!

"Deadpool #3"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

From:	NightLife <habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Thu, 6 Mar 1997 21:18:14 -0500

Message no. 48 >Shredded??? Obliterated would be more accurate. :)

Yes I've been accused of thinking that a good way to swat a fly is to use a
nuclear bomb.

>>Can I help I've got a good
>>background in science.
>
>Can I help it if I like movies? (Don't answer that.)

With the proper aversion therapy.... ;-)

>>As for tearing my hair out. hmmmm no but I tore out a
>>sink from the wall it was bolted to. ;-)
>
>Oooh, poor sink. Now did it make you feel better, or just make the
>place wet? :) Now I understand, I thought that was your hair attached
>to the posts, and it now transpires it was in fact the hair caught in
>the trap... Oh well. :)

No that was that hair from one of my group members who got to close at the
time of the debate.

>>>mean they don't exist. <snigger - dives into bomb shelter> For example,
>>>the "new" races Fasa spit out from time to time.
>>
>>Which aren't half breeds just variants of the original theme. Like blacks,
>>whites, asian, etc.
>
>Yeah, I know that. All the same though. It could be... with a broad
>stretch of the imagination. :)

Anything can be by a broad enough stretch of the imagination.

>It's always locked. :-P
>
>>I know you're in there and I've got an
>>missile strike on stand by.
>
>Doesn't matter, it's invulnerable. :) It's guarded by armed w***ch***s
>

Don't make me set off the aniliation reactor that in there. Smitty open the
door. Creeeeak. No where to run now. You're mine and so is your little dog too.

>But I don't need to... I have a sat-uplink. :)

<Snip> Not anymore.

>I have been blown up by the best, and still survive. Your weedy bombs
>hold bo fear for me Nightlife. :)

You have yet to face the almight power of science.

>>Half breed hahahahaha! No evil half breeds.
>
>Really? Hmmm... I detect a challenge here. OK, reaches for pile of
>books and starts searching for possible examples of half breeds. <g>
>(I bet there's something in these books I can use...)
>
>Well now. There are a couple of possible examples of potential cross
>I'm sure I can find other
>potential stretches of the ridiculous <g>
>How's that red button of yours Nightlife? Got it unstuck yet?

Grovel on fear or I will destroy you and this enitre board and all life on
this planet, and in this universe. The switch works fine want to test it? ;-)

SO SWEARS THE LEADER!

Pseudo science attempts to strike again.

1. Ogre, (Human+Orc)
2. Minotaur, (Ogre+Orc)
3. halfwit.... :) (munchkin+munchkin)
4. Munchy immortal elves, (elf+dragon+munchkin)

1. Nice try Euro variant of the orc.
2. Medterrian variant of the troll.
3. Human from real life.
4. Munchies concept from a wet dream.

Don't mess with me I'm CRAZY. ;-)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Goodie!
Maybe it's those Rocket Skates I ordered from the ACME company!
The last pair backfired and almost blew my legs halfway to my Duodenum.
But I'll get that pesky Road Runner yet.
With My Life's Blood I swear it!

"Deadpool #3"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

From:	Tim Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Thu, 6 Mar 1997 18:19:25 -0800

Message no. 49 On Thu, 6 Mar 1997, Steven A. Tinner wrote:

> > There are not necessarily glaring differences between cross culture/race
> > births, unless it is something extreme. One of the genes is likely to
> > dominate. What is so strange about a troll sized human.. We have damn
> > big humans now.
>
> Bull and I can attest to that fact! :-)
>
> Steven A. Tinner

Yup... there was this guy who went to my junior high and highschool, who
when he was in 6th grade (about 11 years old) was bigger than any teacher
on campus. In Highschool he was obviously on the football team and had to
duck into the doors. Let me tell you he was BIG, and true to a troll,
SLOW! Most of the time the rest of the team had to get behind him and
PUSH just so he would make it around the field in their timed running
drills. This guy couldn't get it past a slow jog if his life depended on
it, but I would not relish being CAUGHT by the guy if he was ticked.

~Tim (who is slightly intimidated by people who are nearly 50% taller and
at least 200% heavier)

From:	'Spaceman' WD Lee <spaced@*.WASHINGTON.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Mixed Breeding
Date:	Thu, 6 Mar 1997 18:24:08 -0800

Message no. 50 On Thu, 6 Mar 1997, NightLife wrote:
# Star trek your quoting Star Trek where everything is basically human and can
# interbreed. Besides a half vulcan is a example of a merger of two different
# races not species like in SR.
#

Once upon a time, I was a trekkie (I've since joined the ranks of
the Babylonians:Watch b5!), and in one of the hardbound books it's
mentioned that Sarek and Amanda had to basically genetically engineer
Spock so he could even exist. I think it's titled Spock's World, or Lost
World, or something of that nature.......

The Spaceman |Death before dishonor.
spaced@*.washington.edu |Drugs before lunch.
Check out the Bill Page! | - Aspen Drug & Gun Club
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~spaced/bill.html
GCC/GL d- s:++ a-- C++ U+ P+ L>L++ !E W++ N++ o+ K w !O M-- V--
PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5++ X+ R+ tv b+++ DI+ D+ G+ e+ h r z+
MPA/SH/TA S G Q+ 666 y W C++ N+ PEC+++ Dr

Message no. 51 >Once again a bad example of crossbreeding remember Black, White, Asian,
>Indian are a difference of species.

Damn now I have to correct what I said myself before Pete gets the chance.

Let me try again.

Once again a bad example of crossbreeding remember Black, White, Asian,
Indian are a difference of ethnic types NOT species like the various metatypes.
Ethnic types can merge and produce a half breed not species. If offspring
are posssible one will dominate and eliminate the other. elf + human = elf
or human or even more rarely one of the others metas. Not pretty little half
breed.

race- human: all can interbreed and produce half breed
species: possible interbreeding cannot produce half breed it conception is
at all possible. Will produce one or the other not a half breed.

So metatype + human = metatype or human.

Don't make me try and remember my forced gentic ramblings.
Elf + forced manipulation = non viable lifeform or with even further
manipulation sterile mutant. Which isn't how SR genetics work. So don't even
try and say well magic. That debate two ball parks over and pointless.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Goodie!
Maybe it's those Rocket Skates I ordered from the ACME company!
The last pair backfired and almost blew my legs halfway to my Duodenum.
But I'll get that pesky Road Runner yet.
With My Life's Blood I swear it!

"Deadpool #3"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Message no. 52 On Thu, 6 Mar 1997 11:54:48 -0800 Tim Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
writes:
>Right now sit down and try concentrating on two separate things, like
>Oooh
>say mentally run down the names and stats of all of your RPG
>characters,
>and simultaineously calculate some complex equation as the variable
>goes
>from 10 to 1 (f(10), f(9), f(8), f(7), etc..).
>
>You shouldn't be able to do that..
>
>With multi-tasking you could.
>
> ~Tim
>

Another illustration:

Twiddle your thumbs (maybe you know what I mean...)

Now, take your left thumb and try to move it around that little circle
you've been tracing in the opposite direction, without changing the
direction of your right thumb.

Or try to do the same thing with your fingers. I know a guy who
can...it's not easy.

--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/

Message no. 53 You wrote:
> >What are you saying here, that he/she's got three arms or four eyes,
> >maybe there's something more fundamental, he/she's only half a person...
> >One arm, one leg, and half a body. I disagree entirely that this person
> >is a freak, unless you are going to label present day cross culture
> >births as freaks.

> Once again a bad example of crossbreeding remember Black, White, Asian,
> Indian are a difference of species.

Not so. Blacks, Whites, Asians, Native Americans, and everyone inbetween are
all of the same species. Everyone is still of the species- Homo Sapien. The
only differences are those of pigmentation and other minor variants. The same
holds true to the different races in SR. All the Metahumans are of the Homo
Sapien species, SR just created the different subspecies. So in the same light
that would allow the birth of a mulato* (a child that is half black and half
white) should also allow a mixture of the metahumans. Just like in the mixed
births of today, the child would have different characteristics from each of
the parents. This, to me, seems like enough reason to allow the notion of half
breeds in SR.

-The Immortal Mental
(who's finally getting into a discussion he knows something about)

Message no. 54 On Thu, 6 Mar 1997 22:02:41 +0000 Dark Avenger
<Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK> writes:
>In article <19970305.210117.12390.1.lobo1@****.com>, L Canthros
><lobo1@****.COM> writes
>>On Wed, 5 Mar 1997 05:12:17 +0000 Dark Avenger
>><Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK> writes:
>><snip>
>
>>>mean they don't exist. <snigger - dives into bomb shelter> For
>>>example,
>>>the "new" races Fasa spit out from time to time.
>>
>>Ah, but those are only variants of the norm, not half-breeds per se.
>
>True enough, but only by definition. As an Ogre is a variant of Ork,
>it
>could be considered a cross between human and Ork (very loosely of
>course), as it holds the traits of Ork, and the smooth skin of a
>human.
>

Could be and is aren't necessarily the same;) 'Sides, by that reasoning,
what is a dryad (Shadowrun Companion)? A half-elf, half-tree? :)

><just me rambling - ignore at will> <g>
>

Too late:)

>>>means the child could be a minotaur or Ogre or somesuch if it's born
>>>somewhere in Europe but not the US (yeah, right). Like why not?
>And
>>>don't tell me it's something in the water.
>>
>>'Course not. It's something in the mana in the surrounding astral
>space;)
>
>Oh I see... Well, that's as good an excuse as I've heard to date. It
>will do :)

Really? You mean, I actually explained something and got it right? Wow:)

--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/

Message no. 55 >Not so. Blacks, Whites, Asians, Native Americans, and everyone inbetween are
>all of the same species. Everyone is still of the species- Homo Sapien. The
>only differences are those of pigmentation and other minor variants. The same
>holds true to the different races in SR. All the Metahumans are of the Homo
>Sapien species, SR just created the different subspecies. So in the same light
>that would allow the birth of a mulato* (a child that is half black and half
>white) should also allow a mixture of the metahumans. Just like in the mixed
>births of today, the child would have different characteristics from each of
>the parents. This, to me, seems like enough reason to allow the notion of half
>breeds in SR.
>

Check the second letter I corrected myself. As for your half breed theroy.
The meta gene works of the genetic theory of super genes one obliterates the
other or makes it non viable. IE elf + dwarf = elf or dwarf not delf. The
meta gene of one effectively destroys the other by supressing it, if not
destroying its ability to function in later reproduction. Dwarf + Human =
dwarf or human or other meta same theroy if the meta gene gets a chance to
manifest it blocks the other. The birth of a mulatto is a blending of
secondary charasterics not ethnic types not the subspecies which I forgot to
mention and used species as a lump word. Check your basic gentics theroys
not anthro where each species is a offshoot of the last. Which in gentics is
measured in rifts like the rifts between chimps and human which is only 2%.
A human + chimp = nothing the lack of super genes make this mixture non
viable without artifical altering.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Goodie!
Maybe it's those Rocket Skates I ordered from the ACME company!
The last pair backfired and almost blew my legs halfway to my Duodenum.
But I'll get that pesky Road Runner yet.
With My Life's Blood I swear it!

"Deadpool #3"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Message no. 56 To: the Immortal mental

>Not so. Blacks, Whites, Asians, Native Americans, and everyone
>inbetween are
>all of the same species. Everyone is still of the species- Homo
>Sapien. The
>only differences are those of pigmentation and other minor variants.
>The same
>holds true to the different races in SR. All the Metahumans are of the
>Homo
>Sapien species, SR just created the different subspecies. So in the
>same light
>that would allow the birth of a mulato* (a child that is half black
>and half
>white) should also allow a mixture of the metahumans. Just like in the
>mixed
>births of today, the child would have different characteristics from
>each of
>the parents. This, to me, seems like enough reason to allow the notion
>of half
>breeds in SR.
>
>-The Immortal Mental
> (who's finally getting into a discussion he knows something about)
------
This is what it seems like to me in the SR book. You mix a spoon and a
fork, you get a spork. but, you mix a troll and a dwarf, you don't get a
droll, or a twarf, you get one or the other. I think this is pretty
definite, unless the GM sez otherwise. Then it's up in the air.

Hellspawn1 (Stupidity got me here, why can't it get me out?)

Message no. 57 At 08:57 PM 3/6/97 -0500, NightLife wrote these timeless words:
>>Not yet anyway. I'm still talking to the bioengineers that survived the
>>dino breakout, and they promise to have a new version ready for summer
>><g>
>
Ohhh... Is that a JP2: Lost Worlds reference? :):)

I'm looking forward to that...:)

>I will crush your little half breed army.
>
>SO SWEARS THE LEADER!
>
>;-)
>
Wait... Wasn't the Leader the green guy with the huge head that the Hulk
used to fight all the time?

:]

Bull
--
Now the Offical Shadowrn mailing List Welcome Ork!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****.com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"You know, I think I had a dream that I'd go out like
this, only I was wearing a dress."
-Mighty max

Message no. 58 At 07:35 PM 3/6/97 -0500, Steven A. Tinner wrote these timeless words:
>> There are not necessarily glaring differences between cross culture/race
>> births, unless it is something extreme. One of the genes is likely to
>> dominate. What is so strange about a troll sized human.. We have damn
>> big humans now.
>
>Bull and I can attest to that fact! :-)
>
<Big Orky Grin>

Bull
--
Now the Offical Shadowrn mailing List Welcome Ork!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****.com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"You know, I think I had a dream that I'd go out like
this, only I was wearing a dress."
-Mighty max

Message no. 59 At 10:22 PM 3/6/97 EST, L Canthros wrote these timeless words:

>Could be and is aren't necessarily the same;) 'Sides, by that reasoning,
>what is a dryad (Shadowrun Companion)? A half-elf, half-tree? :)
>
Hmmm.... Instead of a tree-hugger you have a tree-humper??

<grin>

>><just me rambling - ignore at will> <g>
>
>Too late:)
>
Nahh... We always ignore Pete...:)

>>Oh I see... Well, that's as good an excuse as I've heard to date. It
>>will do :)
>
>Really? You mean, I actually explained something and got it right? Wow:)
>
<grin>

I still think it's all an illusion...:]:]:]

Bull
--
Now the Offical Shadowrn mailing List Welcome Ork!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****.com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"You know, I think I had a dream that I'd go out like
this, only I was wearing a dress."
-Mighty max

Message no. 60 NightLife said on 21:38/ 6 Mar 97...

> Once again a bad example of crossbreeding remember Black, White, Asian,
> Indian are a difference of ethnic types NOT species like the various metatypes.

All the "metatypes" of SR are members of the same species, so they can
interbreed and produce offpsring that can do the same (that's more or less
the definition of a species). You can't breed a cow with a horse because
they're different species, but you can breed two types of cow with each
other. Same with (meta)humans.

> Ethnic types can merge and produce a half breed not species.

It's still the same species, namely human in this case. However, in
physical characteristics the child will be somewhere in between the two
parents (as always, it will just be more obvious in such a case).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
'K moest kloppen want de bel doet het niet.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

Message no. 61 In article <3.0.1.16.19970307024750.2dd7dd14@*****.com>, Bull
<chaos@*****.COM> writes
>At 08:57 PM 3/6/97 -0500, NightLife wrote these timeless words:
>>>Not yet anyway. I'm still talking to the bioengineers that survived the
>>>dino breakout, and they promise to have a new version ready for summer
>>><g>
>>
>Ohhh... Is that a JP2: Lost Worlds reference? :):)
>
Yeppers :) Granite bullied me into buying the book, and I caught a
"Making of" the other day... I hope to be able to use some of it in my
future conversations with Nightlife-the-bomb shelter-bomber

>I'm looking forward to that...:)

ditto

--
__ \ | \
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A dark shadow in a dark world |___/

Message no. 62 Dark Avenger wrote:
|
| In article <m0w2cAe-0004wdC@*******.Informatik.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>, Sascha
| Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE> writes
|
| >If your GM agrees with a half-breed, it's absolutly OK IMHO to play a
| >half-breed. Just expect to be looked at as a freak,
|
| Why?
|
| What is the difference between an Elf, and a Half-Elf. For example a
| Vulcan and a half Vulcan? Spock doesn't look any different to a normal
| Vulcan, why should a half elf look different?

Granted, they probably wouldn't look any different, but
those who know that they're a half-breed might not treat
them to well. This could hold true especially if they're
the product of an elf mating with a troll or dwarf.
Depending on how you (or your GM) run Elves, an elf might
view such an act as a crime vs elves, or at the very least
in poor taste, and show disdain for the half-breed.

I'm not saying that playing a half-breed is a bad thing,
just pointing out some of the possible ramifications.

-David
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~

Message no. 63 On Wed, 5 Mar 1997 13:13:46 -0700, Caric wrote:

>> Bull-the-welcome-Ork
>
>I knew it...no wonder Bull always responds he's been a Bot this whole time.

<<<The laughing Bull-bot/strikes again!/blah-blah-blah>>>

Just an idea;)
--
Arno
*********************************************************************
Be careful when replying to this mail - check the address !!!
(And send me a note when you notice that
the reply-to-address points to the list!)
*********************************************************************

Message no. 64 In article <199703070238.VAA12201@******.san.uc.edu>, NightLife
<habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU> writes
>>Once again a bad example of crossbreeding remember Black, White, Asian,
>>Indian are a difference of species.
>
>Damn now I have to correct what I said myself before Pete gets the chance.

Darn, that spoiled half my fun <sulk>

>Let me try again.
>
>Once again a bad example of crossbreeding remember Black, White, Asian,
>Indian are a difference of ethnic types NOT species like the various metatypes.
>Ethnic types can merge and produce a half breed not species. If offspring
>are posssible one will dominate and eliminate the other. elf + human = elf
>or human or even more rarely one of the others metas. Not pretty little half
>breed.

That sounds very convincing, but unfortunately isn't necessarily a fact.
OK, by core rules there aren't half elves etc. anything to the contrary
would be a house rule and GM choice anyway, but I still don't find the
decision logical. The "discovery" of a metagene and lack of scientific
understanding regarding the metagene was a quicky get out clause <g>
Genetic science in SR is not as advanced as it is in other games, but
for pretty well documented reasons. Now, assuming that a new gene has
been discovered, it would seem reasonable that this gene would be
researched "heavily". But is it a new gene? Surely something that is
there, has been there since the day dot, the metagene is obviously
something that is activated by the mana levels (hence spike babies??)
Now, if that gene has been present in mankind since the dawn of time, it
would also seem reasonable to think that the gene in some respects has
been watered down, by it's non existence over the centuries. There is
no real logical explanation that I can see that would prevent cross
breed characters.

Ignoring the SR concept of half breeds, and looking at a analogy that is
totally unsuitable. Animal cross breeding. The specific purpose of
breeding between interrelated species to produce a specific type of dog,
or horse, cow, bull, whatever. If it can be done between related
species in the animal kingdom, producing creatures that combine the
qualities of both, then it should be possible between humans and other
sub species. After all, Elves are homo sapiens nobilis, as opposed to
homo sapien... Which implies we are of the same species, just a
different race/culture. Thius also implies that interbreeding should
also be possible, not 100% resulting in a perfect version of one or the
other, but occassionally intermingling of the two.

I know the argument is pretty nonsensical as it does state in SRII main
book, that it can't happen and gives a neat little table showing the
results of such breeding. But I still maintain it is an illogical
decision. After all, "all" mankind possesses the metagene, not just the
meta's. :)

>So metatype + human = metatype or human.

But why. It doesn't make logical or scientific sense.

>Don't make me try and remember my forced gentic ramblings.

OK, I won't :)

>Elf + forced manipulation = non viable lifeform or with even further
>manipulation sterile mutant. Which isn't how SR genetics work. So don't even
>try and say well magic. That debate two ball parks over and pointless.

Agreed, magic is not something that can really be involved here, and I
agree that that particular suggestion died the ugly death it deserved.

--
__ \ | \
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A dark shadow in a dark world |___/

Message no. 65 In article <199703070157.UAA05699@******.san.uc.edu>, NightLife
<habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU> writes
>>Not yet anyway. I'm still talking to the bioengineers that survived the
>>dino breakout, and they promise to have a new version ready for summer
>><g>
>
>I will crush your little half breed army.

Yeah yeah yeah.. Sure you will. :)

>SO SWEARS THE LEADER!

Hah! You haven't seen the savage man eating mutant toads yet <g> And
the immortal elf/sabre toothed tiger cross is a real pain... :)

--
__ \ | \
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A dark shadow in a dark world |___/

Message no. 66 In article <199703070202.VAA06449@******.san.uc.edu>, NightLife
<habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU> writes
>>Why?
>>

>Star trek your quoting Star Trek where everything is basically human and can
>interbreed.

That's beside the point, it offers a graphic comparison that most people
can visualise <g>

>Besides a half vulcan is a example of a merger of two different
>races not species like in SR.

Who's to say Elves aren't a seperate race. They are only a human
species by definition. Elves have been around longer than humans
(alledgedly) and live a hell of a lot longer, implying that they are
not of the same race. (Yeah I know about the birth thing in the SR
timline...) <g>

>>is a freak, unless you are going to label present day cross culture
>>births as freaks.
>
>Once again a bad example of crossbreeding remember Black, White, Asian,
>Indian are a difference of species.

Immaterial. The comment was a remark based on something that would not
be necessarily prevelent. I don't see that a character who was a cross
between Elf and Human would be seen as a freak, except by racists who
knew of the difference. SR Elves can grow facial hair, so that's not
strange, they vary in height, so that's not a giveaway... what exactly
would define the appearance of a half elf, that would label them as a
freak. Or half ork/ogre/troll...

As in present day births, certain genetic traits of people stand out
stronger than others. My own son has taken my wifes physical features,
but my build. I've seen other examples of that in cross culture births,
where certain traits are more obvious than others, but it's immediately
obvious to the average person that a person is a cross breed (if I can
use that phrase) Why would that be any different between say an ork and
a human... seeing as humans can goblinise into Orks anyway, who's to say
they're not half breeds. :)

--
__ \ | \
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A dark shadow in a dark world |___/

Message no. 67 In article <199703070218.VAA08806@******.san.uc.edu>, NightLife
<habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU> writes
>>Shredded??? Obliterated would be more accurate. :)
>
>Yes I've been accused of thinking that a good way to swat a fly is to use a
>nuclear bomb.

I think you will find others here who would agree with that statement.
(Wouldn't he Granite...) <g>

>>Can I help it if I like movies? (Don't answer that.)
>
>With the proper aversion therapy.... ;-)

Tried that, the therapist is still recovering from the nervous
breakdown. <s>

>>to the posts, and it now transpires it was in fact the hair caught in
>>the trap... Oh well. :)
>
>No that was that hair from one of my group members who got to close at the
>time of the debate.

Ah, that's better. I was considering sending you some hair loss
ointment, as it seemed a bit much to get into a sink trap. :)

>>Yeah, I know that. All the same though. It could be... with a broad
>>stretch of the imagination. :)
>
>Anything can be by a broad enough stretch of the imagination.

Ahah! now we're getting somewhere <grin>

>Don't make me set off the aniliation reactor that in there. Smitty open the
>door. Creeeeak. No where to run now. You're mine and so is your little dog too.

Hmmm.. Someone else is in here... I don't have a little dog.. Uhoh!

><Snip> Not anymore.

Boo... no fair snipping my satlink... Hmph.. That's the last straw.
OK, if it's to be war nightlife, then so be it. Now where did I put
that division of camel jockies :)

>You have yet to face the almight power of science.

Science. How can you stand by that. Science theories and established
protocols and concepts are getting blown apart with new theories and
principles virtually on a daily basis.

>Grovel on fear or I will destroy you and this enitre board and all life on

No, won't. <plbtplbtplbtplbtplbtplbt>

>this planet, and in this universe. The switch works fine want to test it? ;-)

>Pseudo science attempts to strike again.

OK, how about cross breed cloning... Now don't tell me that can't be
done, after all, the Brits here have taken a munchkin and cloned a sheep
from him... <s>

>Don't mess with me I'm CRAZY. ;-)

Deranged, demented, dellusioned by science, maybe. Crazy??? Nah! :)

--
__ \ | \
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A dark shadow in a dark world |___/

Message no. 68 In article <199703070155.UAA05358@******.san.uc.edu>, NightLife
<habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU> writes
>
>No the evil machniations of the half breed society strike again. Don't make
>me hurt you and blow up your bomb shelter. ;-)

Go ahead Punk... Make my day! <grin>

--
__ \ | \
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A dark shadow in a dark world |___/

Message no. 69 |
|>Why?
|>
|>What is the difference between an Elf, and a Half-Elf. For example a
|>Vulcan and a half Vulcan? Spock doesn't look any different to a normal
|>Vulcan, why should a half elf look different?
|
|Star trek your quoting Star Trek where everything is basically human and can
|interbreed. Besides a half vulcan is a example of a merger of two different
|races not species like in SR.

I think you got that the wrong way 'round.
Vulcans and Humans are different SPECIES.
Elves and Humans are different RACES or the same Species...
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message no. 70 On 6 Mar 97 at 21:57, Dark Avenger wrote:
> >Just expect to be looked at as a freak,
> Why?
>
> What is the difference between an Elf, and a Half-Elf. For example a
> Vulcan and a half Vulcan? Spock doesn't look any different to a normal
> Vulcan, why should a half elf look different?
First off, obviously you understand freak differently then I intended
it. Freak means to me "sticking out of the crowds, do not match, be
obviously different to the rest". This is strictly not limited to
racial or social differences, clothing and style (or lack thereof) can
also mark a person as freak. Please do not imply any racism in my
words.

Why the character is a freak? Any mixture between an elf and an ork
must look strange IMHO. I will not go into genetics (sorry, no frogs,
Pete :-) as I do not consider this half-breed deriving from different
meta-species, but an odd expression of some meta-gene.

PS: Glad you're back, Pete :-)

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |'The rich control |
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| The Government, |
| \___ __/ | | The Media, |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | And the Law!' |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | - Queensryche |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+

Message no. 71 |Another illustration:
|
|Twiddle your thumbs (maybe you know what I mean...)
|
|Now, take your left thumb and try to move it around that little circle
|you've been tracing in the opposite direction, without changing the
|direction of your right thumb.

You!!!! YOU FIEND!!!!
I'll be trying to do that all day now!!!!!!
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message no. 72 |
|In article <199703070155.UAA05358@******.san.uc.edu>, NightLife
|<habenir@******.SAN.UC.EDU> writes
|>
|>No the evil machniations of the half breed society strike again. Don't make
|>me hurt you and blow up your bomb shelter. ;-)
|
|Go ahead Punk... Make my day! <grin>

Errrr....
Why would I want to do that????

:)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message no. 73 >Yeppers :) Granite bullied me into buying the book, and I caught a
>"Making of" the other day... I hope to be able to use some of it in my
>future conversations with Nightlife-the-bomb shelter-bomber

I heard that. Blame yourself you started it. Just ask me and I'll tell you.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Goodie!
Maybe it's those Rocket Skates I ordered from the ACME company!
The last pair backfired and almost blew my legs halfway to my Duodenum.
But I'll get that pesky Road Runner yet.
With My Life's Blood I swear it!

"Deadpool #3"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Message no. 74 >Tried that, the therapist is still recovering from the nervous
>breakdown. <s>

Obviously he didn't set the voltage high enough.

>Ah, that's better. I was considering sending you some hair loss
>ointment, as it seemed a bit much to get into a sink trap. :)

Just send a plumber to put the sink back on the wall. ;-)

>>Anything can be by a broad enough stretch of the imagination.
>
>Ahah! now we're getting somewhere <grin>

That was supposed to a smart assed remark.

>Boo... no fair snipping my satlink... Hmph.. That's the last straw.
>OK, if it's to be war nightlife, then so be it. Now where did I put
>that division of camel jockies :)

Don't make me target you bunker with the SOL laser.

>No, won't. <plbtplbtplbtplbtplbtplbt>

Didn't you mother tell you not to stick out your tongue.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nightlife Inc.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Goodie!
Maybe it's those Rocket Skates I ordered from the ACME company!
The last pair backfired and almost blew my legs halfway to my Duodenum.
But I'll get that pesky Road Runner yet.
With My Life's Blood I swear it!

"Deadpool #3"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Document Classified
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Message no. 75 On Fri, 7 Mar 1997 13:11:32 +0000 Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
writes:
>|Another illustration:
>|
>|Twiddle your thumbs (maybe you know what I mean...)
>|
>|Now, take your left thumb and try to move it around that little
>circle
>|you've been tracing in the opposite direction, without changing the
>|direction of your right thumb.
>
>You!!!! YOU FIEND!!!!
>I'll be trying to do that all day now!!!!!!

Ha! You should tell that to the guy who told it to me! I've been trying
on and off for the past month:) And still can't do it consistently:)

--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/

Message no. 76 Spike wrote:
> I think you got that the wrong way 'round.
> Vulcans and Humans are different SPECIES.
> Elves and Humans are different RACES or the same Species...

Actually, I believe Elves and Humans would be different Genus (Geni?) of
a Species. (It's biology, not my best subject...)

--

Dvixen dvixen@********.com
"And I thought First Ones were rare." - Ivanova - Babylon 5
I have no sense of decency. That way, all my other senses are enhanced

Message no. 77 On Wed, 12 Mar 1997 23:21:34 -0800 Dvixen <Dvixen@********.COM> writes:
>Spike wrote:
>> I think you got that the wrong way 'round.
>> Vulcans and Humans are different SPECIES.
>> Elves and Humans are different RACES or the same Species...
>
>Actually, I believe Elves and Humans would be different Genus (Geni?)
>of
>a Species. (It's biology, not my best subject...)

Nope. A genus comes before species name. So, Elves and humans are the
same genus (homo), species (sapiens), but are different subspecies
(nobilis and sapiens, respectively). Just trying to be helpful:)

--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/

Message no. 78 L Canthros wrote:

> >Actually, I believe Elves and Humans would be different Genus (Geni?)
> >of
> >a Species. (It's biology, not my best subject...)
>
> Nope. A genus comes before species name. So, Elves and humans are the
> same genus (homo), species (sapiens), but are different subspecies
> (nobilis and sapiens, respectively). Just trying to be helpful:)

Many thanks. Makes much better sense than the drivel I wrote.

--

Dvixen dvixen@********.com
"And I thought First Ones were rare." - Ivanova - Babylon 5
I have no sense of decency. That way, all my other senses are enhanced

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