| From: | "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM> |
|---|---|
| Subject: | Mixing and Matching (Re: Magical Deckers) |
| Date: | Wed, 22 Oct 1997 03:17:01 -0400 |
> In a message dated 97-10-21 03:24:54 EDT, you (being Steve Kenson) write:
> <<<[What does everyone think about magical characters using Computer skill
> and
> a
> datajack to access the Matrix? Virtual Realities 1.0 made mention of the
> rule
> about magical characters suffering a penalty in the Matrix, but it occurs
to
> me that this rules hasn't been mentioned anywhere in VR 2.0 or any other
2nd
> edition product. ]>>>
>
> Steve, in Keith's and mine home games here in Lafayette, we allow mages to
> access the matrix like any normal decker, there is something however, the
> deck
> they are using must have a reality filter, not too tailor an environment
for
> themselves but to tailor the information so that the magical part of the
> mage
> does not cause severe pain all the time. The +8 modifier that all people
> get
> to perceive the real world while jacked in is also a modifier to the
casting
> of magic, though they could only cast magic where they were located
> physically, or from live visual feeds from cameras and the like (and this
> was
> limited to Magic Fingers and like Telekinetic spells).
Well, so far I am not having any problems. Yep, this is Keith...the other
part of this "topic."
> <<<[SHOULD magical characters suffer a penalty in the Matrix? On the one
> hand,
> I understand the desire to seperate magic and tech and prevent too many
> "multi-class" characters in Shadowrun but, on the other hand, one of the
> beauties of Shadowrun is it is NOT a class-based system, and I tend to
think
> the Karma requirements of being good at either magic or decking
(especially
> if
> the decking SOTA rules are invoked) are sufficient to keep most
characters
> from being very good at both, and if someone wants to play a character who
> dabbles in a little magic and a little decking, who's to say no?]>>>
I know by God himself (the -REAL- God here), I have incurred no such
limitations. It is this one basic fact that consistently has me labeled as
the "Munchkin GM" for the rest of my gaming days probably.
The following response from Mike I am going to seperate a bit...
> A question of you Steve, why is SR trying their damndest to separate magic
> and
> tech?
I don't really believe that FASA (comandos of SR) is "trying their damndest"
yet actually, as they really have not come right out and said "NO" to the
mixing of tech and magic. Also, please be careful everyone. Something I
have noticed lately is the usage of the word "Tech" has most people thinking
"Matrix", when "Tech" is composed of Matrix and so much, much, more.
This is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of. Tell me that none
> of
> the megacorps are not trying their damndest to integrate magic and tech
> together to make things.
Honestly, he cannot, as it is an underlying theme in corporate descriptions,
especially those corporations with both fiscal power and magical resources.
I am certain that both Aztechnology and Mitsuhama (the big two magical guys
according to the books) probably have lots of things that "have come close"
to the merger. But they (the game designers) aren't putting that stuff out
simply because it would be overwhelming on the Game Universe as a whole.
> For example, here in the home game, I am making a
> panzer that is roughly the class of a MBT Stonewall and there is so much
> mixing it is not even funny.
Boy now if this isn't the understatement of the decade. No Mike, this isn't
an attack, it's an agreement. We are together on this remember that.
> How about spells that improve fuel economy by
> increasing the oxygen ratio in the fuel before entering into the pistons
or
> combustion area?
And just to help everyone out on the understanding of this, it was based upon
the "Oxygenate" spell, when made into a Transformation Manipulation.
> How about a magical spell that increases the sensors
> rating
> of a vehicle?
Mike and I still argue with each other on this one. I don't believe it's
possible, at least not in the way(s) it's been explained so far to me.
> What about a spell which enhances the lift for an aircraft,
> enabling them to get even better fuel economy, also?
Now this I think I can conceive, but Mike and I again don't agree on
methodology.
> Though I am not going to go into it (Keith would probably wring my neck),
Not with nearly as much rope as you think...
> and
> this is concerning one of the gray areas in the rules, there is something
> that
> would be truly frightening with the combining of magic and technology that
> is
> in one of the 'iffy' areas of the rules, and trying to convince Duncan is
A note, he's referring to a player, who is also on the list here. Say "Hi"
there Mr. McNeill.
> being difficult (and is not working at all, I'm probably not explaining it
> well). Oh, it is also possible when combining Delta-grade rules and the
> surgical essence reduction to have almost all of the cyber in all of the
> books
> without going into cybermancy (though it comes close).
Actually, and thankfully, this is an overexageration. But he's right. If
you used the surgery rules from the Street Samurai (First of Second edition),
you could come up with something really cool. And if some other material
from the games here from the Health Spell category (such as a spell that
actually assists a body in the "acceptance" of cyberware/bioware placed upon
a patient -before- the surgery..) or the Detection Spell category (such as
those spells that give the benefitted user insights to the workings of a
particular bit of hardware) were utilized, the game as a whole could be
approached much different.
> <<<[The same question comes up regarding magical characters using a
Vehicle
> Control Rig. Should there be a penalty for magical riggers?]>>>
>
> I don't see why not. And in addition to the point modifer of 8 for
decking,
> perhaps also adding in the control modifier as an additional modifier in
> addition to that, for the mage trying to perform a magical action (what do
> you
> think Keith? - possibility for game balance?)
Actually, no. I think the RiC modifier would be the most that you would
need. Then with a "Rigger Trigger" (Reflex Trigger) implanted, that could
even be circumvented. Let's all face facts. The biggest, most evil words,
from a Game Theorists (those people that are more interested in what develops
within a given "Game Universe") point of view is "GAME BALANCE". I am
not
saying those words are evil to the survival of a good role playing session.
I am saying they are the beginning to the limiting factors that exist in
most players mindsets.
> You are welcome Steve ...
> Mike
A while back someone expressed an opinion to me that was something to the
degree of "different ideas are not necessarily meant to be put together". I
was referring to "Specific Cyberware" from Tir Na nOg and Delta Grade
Cyberware from the Cybertechnology sourcebooks. That idea is shot down in a
simple way.
Shadowrunners
They are out there being exposed to all those different ideas and
consistently being forced to confront them. If they decided to go sell those
ideas elsewhere, then they become worth a LOT of money (and therefore a
potential threat). Unplanned on communication/crossing of informational
lines is what leads to radical developmental breakthroughs.
Finding a way to design a tank that could be "equal" to an MBT is just one
expression. My favorite is the making of a Hat that is better than anything
you'll ever find. If someone comes up with an idea, don't shoot it down with
the term "Munchkin", instead step back and say "....but it might
mean...."
and go from there.
Yes Steve, you are very Welcome
-K
