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From:	Schizi@*.com Schizi@*.com
Subject:	M&M conversion( was Re: SR Future Products and Such)
Date:	Wed, 11 Aug 1999 00:50:47 EDT

Message no. 1 In a message dated 8/10/99 11:23:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
bull@*******.net writes:

> MAN & MACHINE -- Sept 1999
>
> Man and Machine is the redone Cyberbook. Besides updating the other stuff,
> it actually defines Cyberware, how it works, and why it affects essance the
> way it does. Bioware gets a facelift, and is no longer based on your Body,
> but rather linked to essance as well. It doesn;t remove essance, but if
> you have 4 points of cyber, you can only have Bioware for those last two
> points. I'm not sure if it will be the same "price" as it used to be when
> it was Body Index, nor so I know if it's a One "Body Index" for One
Essance
> exchange rate or what.

<snicker> I just changed my ork sam/type thingee guy to a mage, figure its
easier (and more fun) than having him implode in a month when M&M comes out.
(Better than the troll golaie that was pretty much maxed out on cyber and
bio already, he would probably go with enough force to create a nice sized
black hole)

Which brings me to the subject;
Any idea on what suggestions were made for converting? or was it simply
"well, change the equipment and deal with the results"?

From:	Twist0059@*.com Twist0059@*.com
Subject:	M&M conversion( was Re: SR Future Products and Such)
Date:	Wed, 11 Aug 1999 04:04:51 EDT

Message no. 2 In a message dated 8/11/99 12:51:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Schizi@***.com
writes:

> <snicker> I just changed my ork sam/type thingee guy to a mage, figure its
> easier (and more fun) than having him implode in a month when M&M comes
out.
> (Better than the troll golaie that was pretty much maxed out on cyber and
> bio already, he would probably go with enough force to create a nice sized
> black hole)
>
> Which brings me to the subject;
> Any idea on what suggestions were made for converting? or was it simply
> "well, change the equipment and deal with the results"?

I think the official FASA errata on dealing with old bioware and cyberware
carrying players is: "Stand back and use a WetNap to wipe the goo off your
clothes later."

Seriously, they are screwed, I think. (Yes, Molly included, Schizi.) Just
look at Essence 0 from BBB3. Any characters who had Essence 0 (like SR2
allowed) died suddenly when SR3 came out. (Or kindly GMs let their players
scrap some piece of cyberware. Know where I can find any?)

-Twist

From:	Ereskanti@*.com Ereskanti@*.com
Subject:	M&M conversion( was Re: SR Future Products and Such)
Date:	Wed, 11 Aug 1999 12:40:00 EDT

Message no. 3 In a message dated 8/10/1999 11:51:52 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
Schizi@***.com writes:

>
> Which brings me to the subject;
> Any idea on what suggestions were made for converting? or was it simply
> "well, change the equipment and deal with the results"?

Actually, for a couple of us who saw the draft, I would say the last line
isn't going to be likely. M&M is probably going to be cleaner and more
"efficient" and "understandable", but it is also going to have several

"munchkinproof" installments as well...

-K (who knows that word is going to cause more frothing, but when it comes
out, people will understand)

From:	leisnj48@**.cis.uwosh.edu leisnj48@**.cis.uwosh.edu
Subject:	M&M conversion( was Re: SR Future Products and Such)
Date:	Fri, 13 Aug 1999 15:44:07 -0600 (CST)

Message no. 4 On Wed, 11 Aug 1999 Ereskanti@***.com wrote:

> In a message dated 8/10/1999 11:51:52 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
> Schizi@***.com writes:
>
> >
> > Which brings me to the subject;
> > Any idea on what suggestions were made for converting? or was it simply
> > "well, change the equipment and deal with the results"?
>
> Actually, for a couple of us who saw the draft, I would say the last line
> isn't going to be likely. M&M is probably going to be cleaner and more
> "efficient" and "understandable", but it is also going to have
several
> "munchkinproof" installments as well...

*claps at munchkinproof for a moment* How munchkin proof? Nearly
total-munchkin proof, or just enough so that you really have to work at
being a munchkin?

<sidenote>
If you think about it, RPGers are all munchkins. You're sitting there, in
your game, surrounded by bad guys, and you try coming up with the most
inventive solutions you can to survive and triumph.

And thus, we're all quasi-munchkins, trying to swing the rules and
situations our ways to come out alive and on top.
</sidenote>

> -K (who knows that word is going to cause more frothing, but when it comes
> out, people will understand)

*nods at that* For as long as I can remember, the word 'K' has held a deep
spiritual meaning for me, as I suspect it does for all of us.

-Jared

*smile* Yes, that was a joke...sorry.

From:	Jalong1@*.com Jalong1@*.com
Subject:	M&M conversion( was Re: SR Future Products and Such)
Date:	Sat, 14 Aug 1999 17:28:30 EDT

Message no. 5 >*claps at munchkinproof for a moment* How munchkin proof? Nearly
>total-munchkin proof, or just enough so that you really have to work at
>being a munchkin?

Nothing is truly munchkin proof as that munchkins are geniuses (hmm, is that
really the right word to use)? when it comes to min/maxing.

Jalong1

From:	runnerpaul@***.com runnerpaul@***.com
Subject:	M&M conversion( was Re: SR Future Products and Such)
Date:	Sat, 14 Aug 1999 20:15:25 -0400 (EDT)

Message no. 6 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 05:28 PM 8/14/99 -0400, Jalong1@***.com wrote:
::*claps at munchkinproof for a moment* How munchkin proof? Nearly
::total-munchkin proof, or just enough so that you really have to
::work at being a munchkin?
:
:Nothing is truly munchkin proof as that munchkins are geniuses (hmm,
: is that really the right word to use)? when it comes to min/maxing.
:

Perhaps the term you're looking for is "Idiot Savant"? :)

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #186 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
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From:	Ereskanti@*.com Ereskanti@*.com
Subject:	M&M conversion( was Re: SR Future Products and Such)
Date:	Sun, 15 Aug 1999 02:58:15 EDT

Message no. 7 In a message dated 8/14/1999 4:29:59 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
Jalong1@***.com writes:

> >*claps at munchkinproof for a moment* How munchkin proof? Nearly
> >total-munchkin proof, or just enough so that you really have to work at
> >being a munchkin?
>
> Nothing is truly munchkin proof as that munchkins are geniuses (hmm, is
that
>
> really the right word to use)? when it comes to min/maxing.

I believe in my original post, I said something along the lines of being more
munchkinproof, but NOT purely so.

And, after reading stuff tonight with the whole group...something has come
up...Patrick, that conversation the other night, we may need to reconsider
some of my "assuring" statements.

-K

From:	Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject:	M&M conversion( was Re: SR Future Products and Such)
Date:	Sun, 15 Aug 1999 02:41:13 -0500

Message no. 8 > And, after reading stuff tonight with the whole group...something
> has come up...Patrick, that conversation the other night, we may need
> to reconsider some of my "assuring" statements.

Oh, I feel so much better now, hearing that....

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.

From:	Strago strago@***.com
Subject:	M&M conversion( was Re: SR Future Products and Such)
Date:	Sun, 15 Aug 1999 18:26:25 -0400

Message no. 9 Ereskanti@***.com wrote:

> In a message dated 8/14/1999 4:29:59 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
> Jalong1@***.com writes:
>
> > >*claps at munchkinproof for a moment* How munchkin proof? Nearly
> > >total-munchkin proof, or just enough so that you really have to work at
> > >being a munchkin?
> >
> > Nothing is truly munchkin proof as that munchkins are geniuses (hmm, is
> that
> >
> > really the right word to use)? when it comes to min/maxing.
>
> I believe in my original post, I said something along the lines of being more
> munchkinproof, but NOT purely so.
>
> And, after reading stuff tonight with the whole group...something has come
> up...Patrick, that conversation the other night, we may need to reconsider
> some of my "assuring" statements.
>
> -K

IMO, bioware is just one avenue that makes munchkinism rampant. The other
one, and the more dangerous one according to the new rules, is magic. One of my
players tried to pass this off to me. I don't have the spells off for your
perusal, just the concepts. The scariest part is that he VOLUNTARILY increased
the Drain Level by one damage code because it was Light!
He first started with a spell lock made into a metal cylinder about .3 meters
long and with a diameter of 3.5 cm. When it was activated, it would create a
cylinder of light about 1 meter long and 3.5 cm wide. It was magnetically sealed
to repel metals, and it cut like a laser. A LIGHTSABER!
Then it got even more wrong. He created a quickened spell which was a
combination manipulation/detection spell. It would detect to somewhere sick like
300m any intent to harm him with a gun. It would CALCULATE (!) the place the
bullet would come from, and then move the lightsaber in front of it.

This player is a munchkin. He always plays magically active characters. Go
figure.

--
--Strago

The gene pool in the 21st century needs a deep cleaning. I am the chlorine.

SRGC v0.2 !SR1 SR2++ !SR3 h b++ B- UB- IE+ RN++ sa++ ma++ ad+ m+ (o++ d+) gm+ M-

From:	Ereskanti@*.com Ereskanti@*.com
Subject:	M&M conversion( was Re: SR Future Products and Such)
Date:	Mon, 16 Aug 1999 12:00:59 EDT

Message no. 10 In a message dated 8/15/1999 5:24:07 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
strago@***.com writes:

> IMO, bioware is just one avenue that makes munchkinism rampant. The
> other
> one, and the more dangerous one according to the new rules, is magic. One
of
> my
> players tried to pass this off to me. I don't have the spells off for your
> perusal, just the concepts. The scariest part is that he VOLUNTARILY
> increased
> the Drain Level by one damage code because it was Light!

And your point is???

> He first started with a spell lock made into a metal cylinder about .3
> meters
> long and with a diameter of 3.5 cm. When it was activated, it would create
a
> cylinder of light about 1 meter long and 3.5 cm wide. It was magnetically
> sealed
> to repel metals, and it cut like a laser. A LIGHTSABER!

<very strange, very harsh, growling noises....>

> Then it got even more wrong. He created a quickened spell which was a
> combination manipulation/detection spell. It would detect to somewhere
sick
> like
> 300m any intent to harm him with a gun. It would CALCULATE (!) the place
the
> bullet would come from, and then move the lightsaber in front of it.

More than a bit extreme, I admit.

> This player is a munchkin. He always plays magically active
characters.
> Go
> figure.

Okay, here's figuring for you.

The player wanted a character based upon a rather popular piece of fiction.
He attempted to create the basis for that fiction within the SR Universe.
And, from the sounds of it, he really *tried* to stay within the rules
(adding a drain level due to elemental inclusion of a manipulation spell is
per the rules).

IF you didn't like what he was doing, you could have simply said so. Until
you got to the "Warp-Speed Charged-UP Combat Sense" spell, he were doing just
fine. Hell, there are MANY GM's out there who wish their players would go
into good, role-play building, detail like that (HI MAELWYS!!).

He's not a munchkin...not by a long shot. He would begin the road to
munchkinism if he wanted to reverse engineer magic fingers and then build a
stronger, higher drained version, that did FAR more impressive
levitation...(say, like a 75 ton X-Wing model I can think of)....

-K

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