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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Damion Milliken)
Subject: Modifying Guns
Date: Mon Sep 10 00:40:01 2001
Jason Spadaro writes:

> I don't have CC so I don't know if they have anything that talks about
> this, but here's a question: How would adding a substantial amount of
> mods to a gun (presumably affecting weight and balance) affect any
> specialization in that weapon? In real life I don't shoot, so I don't
> know if it would have any great effect.

The CC rules do not cover this, although I do believe it might have some
effect in "real life" ;-).

Actually, this brings up an interesting question. The only difference
between the Ares Predator I, II, and III is the level of Smartlink. Do GMs
out there require a separate Specialisation for each one? If so, what about
if a player who specialises in Ares Predator I gets a Smartlink II put into
it? It's still an Ares Predator I, so his Specialisation still works, but
the gun is effectively an Ares Predator III, now. I usually allow a
Specialisation to cover the various models of the same weapon (or at least
the ones that can be recreated by after market weapon accessory
modification).

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
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Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gabe C.)
Subject: Modifying Guns
Date: Mon Sep 10 04:05:02 2001
> Actually, this brings up an interesting question. The only difference
> between the Ares Predator I, II, and III is the level of Smartlink. Do GMs
> out there require a separate Specialisation for each one? If so, what about
> if a player who specialises in Ares Predator I gets a Smartlink II put into
> it? It's still an Ares Predator I, so his Specialisation still works, but
> the gun is effectively an Ares Predator III, now. I usually allow a
> Specialisation to cover the various models of the same weapon (or at least
> the ones that can be recreated by after market weapon accessory
> modification).
>
> --
> Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
> Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
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Weight. IIRC correctly, Predator II is 0.25 heavier than the Predator I
or III.
--
Gabe
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Damion Milliken)
Subject: Modifying Guns
Date: Mon Sep 10 04:15:01 2001
Gabe C. writes:

> Weight. IIRC correctly, Predator II is 0.25 heavier than the Predator I
> or III.

I think the Smartlink II weighs 0.25 kg less than the Smartlink I, though.
That would explain the difference between the Pred II and III, but not the
Pred I.

Adding a Smartlink I to a Pred I increases the weight by 0.5 kg (I think) -
more than the difference in weights between the different Preds. If this
isn't enough to throw off a Specialisation, then I don't think the
differences in weight between the individual weapons would be either.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
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Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Zebulin Magby)
Subject: Modifying Guns
Date: Mon Sep 10 16:00:01 2001
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"Damion Milliken" <dam01@***.edu.au> wrote:

>
> Actually, this brings up an interesting question. The only
> difference between the Ares Predator I, II, and III is the level of
> Smartlink. Do GMs out there require a separate Specialisation for
> each one?

I didn't used to, but now I think I will <egmg>. Oh, but that would
assume that we use the P2 and P3 in our game, which we don't. <g> In
mine, Ares went the other way with the Viper. Just an interesting
"quirk". (Besides, for some of my players it wouldn't matter which
one was being used as neither would penetrate their armor.)

Zebulin

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Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Scott Peterson)
Subject: Modifying Guns
Date: Mon Sep 10 22:10:01 2001
>How would adding a substantial amount of mods to a gun (presumably
> >affecting weight and balance) affect any specialization in that >weapon?
>In real life I don't shoot, so I don't know if it would have >any great
>effect.

I do shoot and I would ask you to describe what kind of mods your talking
about before I can give you any help. Mainly if your 'tricking out'
(magnaporting, triger brushing, adding sights that you dont use normaly
-iron to adjustable, tritium dots, impoint, white light) extended mag, and
so on its usualy comes down to just time on he range to get used to it.
That and new leather to accomidate the changes.

Damion added this reply:

>I usually allow a Specialisation to cover the various models of the >same
>weapon (or at least the ones that can be recreated by after >market weapon
>accessory modification).

I would agree with this and that the onl;y issue to concern is having the
aplicable cyberware to accomidaste the sight system upgrade.

Scott "Edge" Peterson

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Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Scott Peterson)
Subject: Modifying Guns
Date: Mon Sep 10 22:20:00 2001
>
>Adding a Smartlink I to a Pred I increases the weight by 0.5 kg (I think) -
>more than the difference in weights between the different Preds. If this
>isn't enough to throw off a Specialisation, then I don't think the
>differences in weight between the individual weapons would be either.

You would think that as the tech improved the size would get smaller......I
mean all the improvements of laser sighting is a good example. The original
laser dsignator for the mp-5 back in the 70's was the size of a 3-4 d ceel
flashlight...now in 2001 they got them abotu 1.75 inches ands accurate out
to 50 meters....go fig

Scott "Edge" Peterson

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Message no. 7
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrun)
Subject: modifying guns
Date: Tue Sep 11 07:25:01 2001
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Wallace spoke about balance problems with his predator to KANNIEMEERNIE korperaal , fixer
extraordinaire and firearm mechanic

i have somewhat of a bit of history around guns , my father is the fanatic , shot at
provincial (state) level for the better part of two decades ,he does the serious type
target shoots , i also did a bit of time in the army , shooting assault rifles , LMG's
grenade launchers , mortars, and even a RPG-7 (just background) >:-o

once you are used to using a firearm with large sights , silencers etc it would be normal
, you would adjust your sight picture , and habits of raising firearms up etc to be ready
, (unless your pc's throw their weapons around or choose to do somersaults and dive
rolls, hitting their sights) <join the i hate hollywood club>

now what happens when you pick up a different gun to normal , it provides a different
picture ( after all most of these would be customised to a specific person) your aim would
be off anything from 5cm to a couple of mms , nothing to serious you will still hit your
target , this is why most shoot for the body it is a bigger target , and why the
hollywoodism of using twelve different guns is just plain stupid (they never heard of
magazines , much cheaper than guns) :->

game terms (house rule): your gun no handicap , someone elses gun increase target modifier
by 1 , until he sights it in , someone elses ammo +1 to target numbers , as most serious
targeteers reload their own or only use one specific brand of bullet , (eley match , pmp
etc) yet again only until he sights in (this should happen after examining the first
target/dead body , oh damn i'm pulling left <quickly adjusts sights> never adjust
your sight picture , your just asking for trouble )

now second point :-0 <yawn>

everyone is going on about AK-97s being reversed engineered using CC , okay my
understanding is ( i don't have CC so i will have foot/knee/thigh in mouth , possibly )
but when you reverse engineer a specific firearm , you aren't actually building that
weapon , you are building a weapon with that firearms stats , so it has the same capacity
, ROF , weight , ballistics and other details but quite possibly looks nothing like the
original , in fact what you have is a firearms to compete with the AK-97 on equal footing
which has been home-made or made in a small factory , so it would have none of the mass
production savings that the AK-97 has , say labour , materials , robotic construction
,ballistics testing etc hence the increased cost of making it

KANNIEMEERNIE korperaal , fixer , "so this troll tells me..."
" there are three types of shadowrunners ,
the type that can count , the type that cannot "


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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Wallace spoke about balance problems
with his
predator to KANNIEMEERNIE korperaal , fixer extraordinaire and firearm mechanic
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>i have somewhat of a bit of history
around guns ,
my father is the fanatic , shot at provincial (state) level for the better part
of&nbsp;two decades ,he does the serious type target shoots , i also did a bit
of time in the army , shooting assault rifles , LMG's grenade launchers ,
mortars, and even a RPG-7 (just background) &gt;:-o</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>once you are used to using a firearm
with large
sights , silencers etc it would be normal , you would adjust your sight picture
, and habits of raising firearms up etc to be ready ,&nbsp; (unless your pc's
throw their weapons around or choose to do somersaults and dive rolls, hitting
their sights) &lt;join the i hate hollywood club&gt;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>now what happens when you pick up a
different gun
to normal , it provides a different picture ( after all most of these would be
customised to a specific person) your aim would be off anything from 5cm to a
couple of mms , nothing to serious you will still hit your target , this is
why&nbsp;most shoot for the body&nbsp;it is a bigger target , and why the
hollywoodism of using twelve different guns is just plain stupid (they never
heard of magazines , much cheaper than guns) :-&gt;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>game terms (house rule): your gun no
handicap ,
someone elses gun increase target modifier by 1 , until he sights it in ,
someone elses ammo +1 to target numbers , as most serious targeteers reload
their own or only use one specific brand of bullet , (eley match , pmp etc) yet
again only until he sights in (this should happen after examining the first
target/dead body , oh damn i'm pulling left &lt;quickly adjusts sights&gt; never
adjust your sight picture , your just asking for trouble )</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>now second point :-0
&lt;yawn&gt;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>everyone is going on about AK-97s being
reversed
engineered using CC , okay my understanding is ( i don't have CC so i will have
foot/knee/thigh in mouth , possibly ) but when you reverse engineer a specific
firearm , you aren't actually building that weapon , you are building a weapon
with that firearms stats , so it has the same capacity , ROF , weight ,
ballistics and other details but quite possibly looks nothing like the original
, in fact what you have is a firearms to compete with the AK-97 on equal footing
which has been home-made or made in a small factory , so it would have none of
the mass production savings that the AK-97 has , say labour , materials ,
robotic construction ,ballistics testing etc hence the increased cost of making
it</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>KANNIEMEERNIE korperaal , fixer ,
"so this troll
tells me..."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>" there are three types of
shadowrunners
,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>the&nbsp;type that can count ,
the&nbsp;type that
cannot " </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Message no. 8
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Wallace Blade)
Subject: modifying guns
Date: Sat Sep 15 17:10:01 2001
Shadowrun said:
>game terms (house rule): your gun no handicap , someone elses gun >increase
>target modifier by 1 , until he sights it in , someone elses >ammo +1 to
>target numbers , as most serious targeteers reload their >own or only use
>one specific brand of bullet , (eley match , pmp etc) >yet again only until
>he sights in (this should happen after examining >the first target/dead
>body , oh damn i'm pulling left <quickly adjusts >sights> never adjust your
>sight picture , your just asking for >trouble )

Well, first of all, I don't know much about guns, so I must just have said a
completely foolish thing. But, that said, I believe that concentrations and
general skills are there to do that, precisely, unless the other gun is
personalized.

Wallace Blade
Sepherim (Dagger in sperethiel)
"The Matrix was made to serve,
but only obeys those of us that love her."
Nodo 666: http://www16.brinkster.com/sepherim


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