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Message no. 1
From: "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Mods from Lifestyles
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 22:13:28 -0500
How many people have characters in their games with Street Lifestyles?
("Uhm excuse me? Where do you stash your PAC?" "I hide it in bike under
the Minigun, next to the ATGM, why?")

Well, I have two players who don't really seem to see the need for
lifestyles and I thought I'd implement this little system to rectify the
situation:

Street Lifestyle incurs a +2 T# to all Body and Charisma tests.
Squatter Lifestyle incurs a +1 T# to all Body and Charisma tests.

This may be a bit much but I -Really- want to convince players against
shitty lifestyles...

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

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Message no. 2
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Mods from Lifestyles
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 07:39:54 -0600
D. Ghost wrote:
/
/ How many people have characters in their games with Street Lifestyles?
/ ("Uhm excuse me? Where do you stash your PAC?" "I hide it in bike under
/ the Minigun, next to the ATGM, why?")

One of the players in my group has Street Lifestyle. He's a mage and
owns a suit of Security Armor. When he's not wearing it on a run he's
got it packed up in his backpack. He does sleep in it though.

He doesn't have a problem with LoneStar because he lives in a
neighborhood that isn't patrolled by LoneStar (LS patrols the
neighborhoods that pay their wages).

He doesn't have a problem with his neighbors cuz he's a bad ass mage.
And he's a nice guy so his neighbors actually appreciate his presence.

/ Well, I have two players who don't really seem to see the need for
/ lifestyles and I thought I'd implement this little system to rectify the
/ situation:
/
/ Street Lifestyle incurs a +2 T# to all Body and Charisma tests.
/ Squatter Lifestyle incurs a +1 T# to all Body and Charisma tests.

Why?

I can understand implementing this for people that are malnurished and
don't take care of their appearance.

The runner in my game showers at the local YMCA every day (after swimming a
few laps). He eats regularly, so nutrition isn't an issue.

/ This may be a bit much but I -Really- want to convince players against
/ shitty lifestyles...

Again, why? Why is this such an issue for you?

Curious,
-David
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 3
From: David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: Mods from Lifestyles
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:49:15 -0400
On Mon, 7 Sep 1998, D. Ghost wrote:

->How many people have characters in their games with Street Lifestyles?
->("Uhm excuse me? Where do you stash your PAC?" "I hide it in bike
under
->the Minigun, next to the ATGM, why?")
->
->Well, I have two players who don't really seem to see the need for
->lifestyles and I thought I'd implement this little system to rectify the
->situation:
->
->Street Lifestyle incurs a +2 T# to all Body and Charisma tests.
->Squatter Lifestyle incurs a +1 T# to all Body and Charisma tests.
->
->This may be a bit much but I -Really- want to convince players against
->shitty lifestyles...

I go a different route: a character must spend 1% of their
startup nuyen on a lifestyle. This represents the character's investment
in their equipment's upkeep, if nothing else. It's worked great so far.

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 4
From: Tarek Okail <Tarek_Okail@**********.COM>
Subject: Mods from Lifestyles
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 19:05:14 -0400
D. Ghost--

>Street Lifestyle incurs a +2 T# to all Body and Charisma tests.
>Squatter Lifestyle incurs a +1 T# to all Body and Charisma tests.

Check out the RPGA's Virtual Seattle website. It's got
rules for Lifestyle's social effects.

Shadowmage
Message no. 5
From: "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Mods from Lifestyles
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 17:03:17 -0500
On Tue, 8 Sep 1998 07:39:54 -0600 David Buehrer
<dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG> writes:
>D. Ghost wrote:
<SNIP>
>/ Well, I have two players who don't really seem to see the need for
>/ lifestyles and I thought I'd implement this little system to rectify
the
>/ situation:
>/
>/ Street Lifestyle incurs a +2 T# to all Body and Charisma tests.
>/ Squatter Lifestyle incurs a +1 T# to all Body and Charisma tests.

>Why?
>
>I can understand implementing this for people that are malnurished and
>don't take care of their appearance.
>
>The runner in my game showers at the local YMCA every day (after
swimming a
>few laps). He eats regularly, so nutrition isn't an issue.

Well, the lifestyle costs covers food so unless the players gave their
characters a Seatle Soup Kitchen Knowledge skill, they characters would
be mainly eating scraps ... (IMO)

>/ This may be a bit much but I -Really- want to convince players against
>/ shitty lifestyles...

>Again, why? Why is this such an issue for you?
>
>Curious,
>-David
<SNIP Sig>

My main beef with the players is that they decided to do this because
they didn't want to pay for a lifestyle. (They literally said they
wouldn't spend money on a lifestyle because they'll keep everything on
their bikes) For these two players (the ONLY two characters with street
lifestyle [Although, I do have 2 characters that share a RV].) the street
lifestyle is not a matter of RPing the caracter's background, it's a
matter of penny-pinching so they'll have more money for "toys" ... That's
why it's an issue for me ... :)

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

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Message no. 6
From: Adam J <adamj@*********.HTML.COM>
Subject: Re: Mods from Lifestyles
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 18:06:42 -0600
At 17:03 9/8/98 -0500, D. Ghost wrote

>My main beef with the players is that they decided to do this because
>they didn't want to pay for a lifestyle. (They literally said they
>wouldn't spend money on a lifestyle because they'll keep everything on
>their bikes) For these two players (the ONLY two characters with street
>lifestyle [Although, I do have 2 characters that share a RV].) the street
>lifestyle is not a matter of RPing the caracter's background, it's a
>matter of penny-pinching so they'll have more money for "toys" ... That's
>why it's an issue for me ... :)

Simple. Let them (once, just once), fit all their gear in their damn bike.
Then have somebody steal it, or have a building fall on it, or a car
explode right by it, or something along those lines that is utterly
irreversible.

Viola. Character has -jack shit-.

Smack your characters around a bit -- it sounds like they're running right
over you, and a rules fix like you proposed isn't going to help, as they're
likely not the kind that will care about social tests anyways.

-Adam J
-
< TSS Productions down temporarily - New URL Soon! / fro@***.ab.ca >
< ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader / TSA Co-Admin / ICQ# 2350330 >
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Message no. 7
From: "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Mods from Lifestyles
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 19:50:14 -0500
On Tue, 8 Sep 1998 18:06:42 -0600 Adam J <adamj@*********.HTML.COM>
writes:
<SNIP Why I proposed the mods from lifestyle>

>Simple. Let them (once, just once), fit all their gear in their damn
bike.
> Then have somebody steal it, or have a building fall on it, or a car
>explode right by it, or something along those lines that is utterly
>irreversible.
>
>Viola. Character has -jack shit-.

I would like to avoid that if possible. I do screw over the player's
misconceptions of their characters badassedness but I'd like to avoid
royally screwing them over until they REALLY piss me off.

>Smack your characters around a bit -- it sounds like they're running
right
>over you, and a rules fix like you proposed isn't going to help, as
they're
>likely not the kind that will care about social tests anyways.
>
>-Adam J
<SNIP Sig>

The rules weren't just social ... they mucked up BODY tests too
(malnutrition and all :) Btw, I don't think they're running over me (one
of the co-GMs is an occassional ass-hole trying to overrule me but only
on occassion.) ... One of my players told me I needed to lighten up and
that the point of RPGs was not to kill the characters (Btw, he wants to
switch over to Werewolf: the Appocolypse.) to which I replyed, "It is if
they're stupid!" (The Street Sam in the group shot the bouncer in a club
[through the back door] and then went back inside the club ... He got
shot while trying to run away from LS [Of course, he SHOULD have done
that BEFORE they got there ... he had several minutes!] ... Because he
was stupid, I let the dice decide if he lived or died ... he lived but
barely :)

I will screw over the players if I have to, but I'd rather not. (Call me
a soft-hearted apprentice evil-GM ...)

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

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Message no. 8
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Mods from Lifestyles
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 21:18:44 EDT
In a message dated 9/8/98 6:41:09 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG writes:

> This may be a bit much but I -Really- want to convince players against
> / shitty lifestyles...
>
> Again, why? Why is this such an issue for you?
IMO, your player role-plays it better than his players. I would punish the
player a lot more than he seems to have though.
Message no. 9
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Mods from Lifestyles
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 20:20:50 -0600
D. Ghost wrote:
/
/ >/ Well, I have two players who don't really seem to see the need for
/ >/ lifestyles and I thought I'd implement this little system to rectify
/ >/ the situation:
/ >/
/ >/ Street Lifestyle incurs a +2 T# to all Body and Charisma tests.
/ >/ Squatter Lifestyle incurs a +1 T# to all Body and Charisma tests.
/
/ >Why?
/
/ My main beef with the players is that they decided to do this because
/ they didn't want to pay for a lifestyle. (They literally said they
/ wouldn't spend money on a lifestyle because they'll keep everything on
/ their bikes) For these two players (the ONLY two characters with street
/ lifestyle [Although, I do have 2 characters that share a RV].) the street
/ lifestyle is not a matter of RPing the caracter's background, it's a
/ matter of penny-pinching so they'll have more money for "toys" ... That's
/ why it's an issue for me ... :)

Ahh.

Here's what you do. Don't make up new game mechanics to punish them.
Don't even punish them. Consider the consequences of their actions.

Their neighbors are the poorest of the poor who will sell them out for
5 bucks. They'll be the first ones that LoneStar hunts down.

Weather sucks when you live in a cardboard box.

Gangers don't like it when someone muscles in on their turf (which the
PCs will be doing if they walk/drive around loaded for bear).

Theives in the barrens are theives of opportunity. If they turn their
backs on their bikes for a few seconds something will disappear. If
they leave their bikes alone for more than five minutes (like when they
go to sleep) they'll be gone.

The local powers (soup kitchens, churches, and other charities) may
offer the runners a measly sum, or just ask, to help them.

The runners will be in the middle of squaler and surrounded by people
down on their luck. Roleplay this and impress on the players just how
bad it is to live in the barrens. Not how bad it is for their
characters, but how bad it is for everone else. Have them wake up one
morning next to a drug addict that died the night before when he OD'd.
Have them encounter the twin 6 year old orphans that are barely
surviving on the streets. Have them encounter the 16 year old boy that
prostitutes himself and his 12 year old sister to get enough money to
buy their next meal (and maybe their next BTL chip).

Those to players just put their characters in the middle of roleplaying
central.

-David
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 10
From: The Great Cornholio <ChemPhD2Be@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Mods from Lifestyles
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 00:01:26 EDT
In a message dated 98-09-08 19:43:16 EDT, you write:

<< On Tue, 8 Sep 1998 07:39:54 -0600 David Buehrer
<dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG> writes:
>D. Ghost wrote: >>
<stuff about lifestyles>

My 2 nuyen....

One huge advantage of players in SR is the amount of cred they accumulate.
Lifestyle costs are a way of cutting into that wealth. Keep them running by
taking their cash away. Good ways to remove unwanted gobs of cash characters
have:

(keep in mind, you may have a Johnson who pays 50 nuyen a run -- and you think
he's paying too much.. in that case... any char who's worth any money has
earned it.)

1) Crime. Deckers got SOTA, and they need cred. And some aren't as
reputible as most. If the character has it in a bank, boom, his account gets
shaved. Thank you for your donation.

2) Taxes. You have a char with a SIN? And he's got lots of illegal cred?
Oops. You've been audited. We didn't get a W4 for all this cash you've
accumulated. Are you some kind of CRIMINAL? Can you TAX EVASION?

3) Break ins. Fencing still gets ya some cred. Have the character come home
to a burgled stash.

4) Maintenance. Deckers got SOTA. Riggers got Mechanics. And what's to
keep cyberware from breaking down? All that high stress can't be good for it.
Arrange monthly upkeeps.

5) Bribes. FOlks in that upper middle class apartment house wouldn't be too
keen on Capt. Slaughter (essence 0.1) living in 3G off of wetwork and gangland
hits. So you gotta keep the super off your back.

All of these are suggestions. If you're up on playing a hardcore real game,
there's tonsof ways of grifting your players.

TGC
Message no. 11
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Mods from Lifestyles
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 08:49:23 EDT
In a message dated 9/8/98 11:38:18 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
ChemPhD2Be@***.COM writes:

> 4) Maintenance. Deckers got SOTA. Riggers got Mechanics. And what's to
> keep cyberware from breaking down? All that high stress can't be good for
> it.
> Arrange monthly upkeeps.
>
Another idea I have had along these lines is for skills to even have a monthly
cost in that the person needs to spend cred in order to keep up with the
monthly advances and goings on within the skills they happen to be in. The
cost either represents practice ammunition or time in some sort of simulator,
magazines, matrix skating, things of that nature which would be involved in
keeping a character's skills SOTA. Missing more than 3 months in a row could
mean either the character loses a point in that skill, or a -1 modifier to all
tests using the skill until the character pays up on the maintenance cost that
they've skipped on.

Every skill over 3 has a monthly nuyen cost
Skill Level Range Monthly Cost (in nuyen)
1-2 none
3-5 (Skill Level) x 10
6-8 (Skill Level) x 20
9+ (Skill Level) x 50

And I have been thinking about implementing this into the home game here.
Message no. 12
From: Wilbur The new adept <mad_bomb@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Mods from Lifestyles
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 06:04:27 PDT
>Another idea I have had along these lines is for skills to even have a
monthly
>cost in that the person needs to spend cred in order to keep up with
the
>monthly advances and goings on within the skills they happen to be in.
The
>cost either represents practice ammunition or time in some sort of
simulator,
>magazines, matrix skating, things of that nature which would be
involved in
>keeping a character's skills SOTA. Missing more than 3 months in a row
could
>mean either the character loses a point in that skill, or a -1 modifier
to all
>tests using the skill until the character pays up on the maintenance
cost that
>they've skipped on.
>
>Every skill over 3 has a monthly nuyen cost
>Skill Level Range Monthly Cost (in nuyen)
>1-2 none
>3-5 (Skill Level) x 10
>6-8 (Skill Level) x 20
>9+ (Skill Level) x 50
>
>And I have been thinking about implementing this into the home game
here.
>
how does that work, i see the underlying principle, but it doesnt
translate in to losing dots.
Out of practice is another matter, but just becaause other people are
getting better doesnt mean you get worse. I can see how in some
situations new techniques and such come into skill fields but they dont
mean your any worse. Its nuyen they need to make them better, i admit if
their out of practice hit them for the cred and make them go and
practice hard but if they've just spend three mothns shooting their way
out of Amazonia past pissed of toxics they aint gonna be any worse.
MrhaPPythEsmILEyman

*Just because i'm insane doesnt mean i'm insane* -wilbur


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Message no. 13
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Mods from Lifestyles
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 15:24:57 -0400
At 08:49 AM 9/9/98 EDT, you wrote:

>Another idea I have had along these lines is for skills to even have a
monthly
>cost in that the person needs to spend cred in order to keep up with the
>monthly advances and goings on within the skills they happen to be in. The
>cost either represents practice ammunition or time in some sort of simulator,
>magazines, matrix skating, things of that nature which would be involved in
>keeping a character's skills SOTA. Missing more than 3 months in a row could
>mean either the character loses a point in that skill, or a -1 modifier to
all
>tests using the skill until the character pays up on the maintenance cost
that
>they've skipped on.

Try not to be too shocked, but I like the idea.

It probably really only works best in higher-powered games (as opposed to
gutterpunks/street level) in which the PCs have a bit more in the way of
both Skills and Nuyen.

It's not too specific (okay, in your freetime you spend a few hours in
combat simulators or reading a Japanese book, whatever, make it an RP
thing) and it removes Nuyen from PCs that are probably wealthier than they
know what to do with.

So as an Optional, SR Companion type rule, I think it would work pretty well.

Erik J.

Geez...when did I get so mellow and agreeable?
Message no. 14
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Mods from Lifestyles
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 15:12:22 -0600
At 15:24 9/9/98 -0400, Erik Jameson wrote

>>Another idea I have had along these lines is for skills to even have a
>monthly
>>cost in that the person needs to spend cred in order to keep up with the
>>monthly advances and goings on within the skills they happen to be in. The
>>cost either represents practice ammunition or time in some sort of
simulator,
>>magazines, matrix skating, things of that nature which would be involved in
>>keeping a character's skills SOTA. Missing more than 3 months in a row
could
>>mean either the character loses a point in that skill, or a -1 modifier to
>all
>>tests using the skill until the character pays up on the maintenance cost
>that
>>they've skipped on.
>
>Try not to be too shocked, but I like the idea.

I missed the original post, but this looks to be somewhat similar to the
Etiquette rules that I used, where you had to pay extra in time and karma
to keep up with some facet of life that you had an etiquette skill in, but
weren't exposed too -- such as Etiquette (matrix) but you had no cyberdeck,
so he had to stay up to date by actually talking to other deckers in RL and
tracking down print versions of the various underground magazines that
would float around in 2060.

This could easily be applied to keeping up with normal skills, too.

-Adam J

-
< TSS Productions down temporarily - New URL Soon! / fro@***.ab.ca >
< ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader / TSA Co-Admin / ICQ# 2350330 >
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< TSS : ftp://thor.flashpt.com/pub/srun/ShadowrunSupplemental/pdf >
Message no. 15
From: The Great Cornholio <ChemPhD2Be@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Mods from Lifestyles
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 19:35:51 EDT
In a message dated 98-09-09 10:25:16 EDT, you write:

<< Out of practice is another matter, but just becaause other people are
getting better doesnt mean you get worse. I can see how in some
situations new techniques and such come into skill fields but they dont
mean your any worse. Its nuyen they need to make them better, i admit if
their out of practice hit them for the cred and make them go and
practice hard but if they've just spend three mothns shooting their way
out of Amazonia past pissed of toxics they aint gonna be any worse.
MrhaPPythEsmILEyman >>

Sometimes I hate AOL. *sigh*

Anyway, I can understand being out of practice. As an academic chemist, I'm
always reading current journals to keep up to date on new research. Chemistry
is a living science, and if you ever hit the QD section in the library of
congress periodical section, you'll see it lives in about 50-70 active
chemistry journals. In the 2050's, you can imagine that chemistry is evolving
even faster. So academic skills and computer skills should be subject to some
kind of SOTA. Physical skills... eh, that's a tough one. I mean, Johnny Reb
goes on a shadowrun and pops off 4 clips from a SMG, I'd say he's keeping in
practice with his SMG, even if he's lacking in Urban Stealth :-). Most
skills aren't as expensive as SOTA for deckers, but you'd be surprised just
how much time you have to spend to keep your academic mind sharp.

Speaking of which, that brings up something on my mind. Skillsofts should
suffer SOTA as well. Linguisofts, probably not. But a skillsoft on Cybertech
from 2051 isn't going to help you know squat on Move By Wire systems. A
recommendation to all GMs out there... SOTA's useful.. so apply it when you
think it's worthwhile.

TGC

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