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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (TexasFriedCriminal)
Subject: MOOs MUDs and and other ways to creatively waste your time
Date: Tue Feb 13 10:20:01 2001
well right, can you give me some info on this?
are there browser based ones?
where can I find client software?
what makes a MOO different from a MUD?
any urls to spare?

I've heard about lamda, if that is the one I heard about, where can I find
it?

"questions, question, many you ask... "

-- ^/_Texas - Fried - Criminal_\^ -- ((www.neosophia.exit.de))

"It costs me never a stab nor squirm
To tread by chance upon a worm.
'Aha, my little dear,' I say,
'Your clan will pay me back one day.'"
Dorothy Parker
Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Ryan Myers)
Subject: MOOs MUDs and and other ways to creatively waste your time
Date: Tue Feb 13 15:50:01 2001
On Tue, 13 Feb 2001, TexasFriedCriminal wrote:

> well right, can you give me some info on this?
> are there browser based ones?
> where can I find client software?
> what makes a MOO different from a MUD?
> any urls to spare?
>
> I've heard about lamda, if that is the one I heard about, where can I find
> it?

Well, theoretically all online text-only environments can be called
MUDs... in practice, MUD is used to refer to hack-and-slash, low-RP
environments (especially those based on the DikuMUD engine or
derivatives, the most notable being Envy/Circle/ToC). MOO refers to
high-RP environments, and in fact several MOOs require you to submit a
character beforehand and have it approved by the GMs before being allowed
entrance into the game world.

LambdaMOO is one particular MOO engine - I have yet to figure out what the
name refers to. (One would hope it would mean the scripting language used
lambda calculus or expressions.) It's a good engine, and is very
extendable - one project an old coworker did involved actually
implementing an http server in the MUD core code and creating a full
web-enabled MOO.

If you're interested in more info on MUDs, break out your friendly search
engine, and if you don't mind being on a high-traffic list, the MUD-Dev
list at kanga.nu is an excellent place to talk about design and
whatnot. MUDDev is also well known for being frequented by certain
wellknowns in the MMOG industry, among them Raph Koster and a number of
the UO staff.

- Ryan Myers (borisian@***********.com)
- http://www.pointofnoreturn.org/

I'd put my money where my mouth is, but my mouth keeps moving. -Larry Wall
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Dakhran the Dark)
Subject: MOOs MUDs and and other ways to creatively waste your time
Date: Tue Feb 13 17:35:01 2001
From: "TexasFriedCriminal"
> well right, can you give me some info on this?

Sure can.

> are there browser based ones?

Well, there used to be a project called WOO, which enabled HTML descriptions
for each viewable object in the MOO environment. I'm sure it's advanced
beyond this by now, but you'd still probably need a client (see below).

> where can I find client software?

Well, the simplest one comes with your operating system, usually. It's
called "telnet". I swear by it, myself...

There are better clients, like Tin-Tin and zMUD, but you'll need to do a
websearch for them.

> what makes a MOO different from a MUD?

Well, MUD is either "Multi-User Dungeon" or "Multi-User Dimension",
depending on who you ask. Just a place to telnet to, it gives you
descriptions depending on responses you type, alot like the old Infocom
text-based games.

And MOO is just one type of MUD software, which means "MUD, Object
Oriented". Which basically just means it's a MUD where all the descriptions
and commands in the environment are programmed using the "object oriented"
model. At the most basic level, it's very much like any other MUD. The
only real difference is if you become a programmer in the environment.

> any urls to spare?

Here's a site with a good list of MOOs, as well as a few other MUD-types:
http://www.cs.cf.ac.uk/User/Andrew.Wilson/VR/sites.html

> I've heard about lamda, if that is the one I heard about, where can I find
> it?

Well, my advice is to stay away from LambdaMOO. It's been around for a long
time, and while it was once a mecca for code hackers and free thinkers, it's
now a seriously degraded society. I've been there only twice in the last
three years, and that was too much.

Your best bet is to find one that's younger, has an active and enthusiastic
membership, and (ideally) in your own native tongue. There are hundreds out
there, so you'll certainly find one you like best.

=======================<*> Dakhran the Dark <*>
Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Dakhran the Dark)
Subject: MOOs MUDs and and other ways to creatively waste your time
Date: Tue Feb 13 17:55:01 2001
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Myers"
> LambdaMOO is one particular MOO engine - I have yet to figure out what the
> name refers to. (One would hope it would mean the scripting language used
> lambda calculus or expressions.) It's a good engine, and is very
> extendable - one project an old coworker did involved actually
> implementing an http server in the MUD core code and creating a full
> web-enabled MOO.

Well, if you want to get technical, LambdaCore is the engine, and LambdaMOO
is the original MOO, which implemented LambdaCore. And from what I
remember, Pavel called it thusly because, in it's original incarnation, it
was sort of a "frathouse" environment. Lambda Mu = LambdaMOO.

I remember there being a "WOO" project in the works back when I was an
active MOOer, involving ChibaMOO IIRC...

I have a question of my own. I've been missing out on fiddling with
MOOcode, but as I've said before, going back to Lambda felt alot like
returning to a hometown, only to find that it's become overrun with hookers,
crack-houses, and gangs, and that your own house has become a toxic waste
dump. Do you recommend any MOOs? I'm looking for one where I can get back
into programming, preferably one with a fledgling RPG system that I can help
work on.

=======================<*> Dakhran the Dark <*>
Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: MOOs MUDs and and other ways to creatively waste your time
Date: Tue Feb 13 19:40:04 2001
In a message dated 2/13/01 5:57:42 PM Eastern Standard Time,
dakhran@**********.net writes:

> I have a question of my own. I've been missing out on fiddling with
> MOOcode, but as I've said before, going back to Lambda felt alot like
> returning to a hometown, only to find that it's become overrun with
hookers,
> crack-houses, and gangs, and that your own house has become a toxic waste
> dump. Do you recommend any MOOs? I'm looking for one where I can get back
> into programming, preferably one with a fledgling RPG system that I can
help
> work on.

MOO on it's own tends to see more in the way of talkers and things like
that...MUSH and MUX (though MUX has merged w/ TinyMUSH as of TinyMUSH 3.0, a
lot of people still use TinyMUX 2.2...and there are hordes of MUSH codebases.
PennMUSH, TinyMUSH...you name it.) are the popular codebases for RP sites. On
that note, a good MUSH for SR is Shadowrun Seattle, over at
shadowrun.dnaco.net, port 4201. Want to know of more sites, non-SR? email me
privately.

John

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Thwap!