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Message no. 1
From: Bai Shen <baishen@**********.COM>
Subject: More CF questions
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 11:44:28 -0400
Anybody know how much CF a shop takes up(packed, and all set up).
--
Bai Shen
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
http://www.series2000.com/users/baishen
UIN 3543257 (Don't ask to join if you aren't going to send me anything.)
Message no. 2
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: More CF questions
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 19:21:24 EDT
In a message dated 8/5/98 3:10:25 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
baishen@**********.COM writes:

> Anybody know how much CF a shop takes up(packed, and all set up).

It is known that an Enchanter's Kit takes up 50 square meters of space ...
which amounts to some 200 CF or so ...

So, we used this number, along with the cost multipliers for kits, shops, and
facilities to come up with the CF sizes for shops and facilities ...

Shops have a 600 CF requirement ...

Facilities have a 1,000 CF requirement ...

At least this is what we use here ...

-Herc
------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
Message no. 3
From: Steven McCormick <stardust@***.NET>
Subject: Re: More CF questions
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 19:27:31 -0500
At 07:21 PM 8/5/98 EDT, Mike Bobroff wrote:
>In a message dated 8/5/98 3:10:25 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
>baishen@**********.COM writes:
>
>> Anybody know how much CF a shop takes up(packed, and all set up).
>
>It is known that an Enchanter's Kit takes up 50 square meters of space ...
>which amounts to some 200 CF or so ...
>
>So, we used this number, along with the cost multipliers for kits, shops, and
>facilities to come up with the CF sizes for shops and facilities ...
>
>Shops have a 600 CF requirement ...
>
>Facilities have a 1,000 CF requirement ...
>
>At least this is what we use here ...
>
>-Herc
>------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
>
>

According to the BBB pg. 244:

"A shop is trasportable in a large van or small truck." Now, whether you
can use the shop when it's in one of these vehicles is another question. I
tend to look at them like those plumber's vans that you see driving around
all the time. The plumber has all of his equipment right there, and he just
does his job out of the back.

"A facility is immobile because of the bulky, heavy machinery involved."
To me, that means you can't even put one of these into the back of a 1000
CF tractor/trailor to haul it around, let alone set it up and use it.

But, like you said, whatever works for you. :)

BlueMule
Message no. 4
From: Bai Shen <baishen@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: More CF questions
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 20:57:41 -0400
> > Anybody know how much CF a shop takes up(packed, and all set up).
> It is known that an Enchanter's Kit takes up 50 square meters of space ...
> which amounts to some 200 CF or so ...
> So, we used this number, along with the cost multipliers for kits, shops, and
> facilities to come up with the CF sizes for shops and facilities ...
> Shops have a 600 CF requirement ...
> Facilities have a 1,000 CF requirement ...

Is that packed, or set up?
--
Bai Shen
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
http://www.series2000.com/users/baishen
UIN 3543257 (Don't ask to join if you aren't going to send me anything.)
Message no. 5
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: More CF questions
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 21:56:58 EDT
In a message dated 8/5/98 4:40:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Airwasp@***.c=
om writes:

>
> It is known that an Enchanter's Kit takes up 50 square meters of space=
...
> which amounts to some 200 CF or so ...
>
actually since the kits fit in a backpack, I think 50 M² is a bit much.=
The 50 M² listed in the grimoire is for how much room a SHOP needs, =
not a kit.
It also mentions that a shop can be stored in a van, though not used un=
til set up (requiring the 50 M²) I assume a kit also would need to be=
scattered somewhat out of the backpack.
Shops and Factories are stable and cannot be stored as such.
Message no. 6
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: More CF questions
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 07:11:56 EDT
In a message dated 8/5/98 7:38:41 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
stardust@***.NET writes:

Nice ta here from ya Blue ...

> According to the BBB pg. 244:
>
> "A shop is trasportable in a large van or small truck." Now, whether you
> can use the shop when it's in one of these vehicles is another question. I
> tend to look at them like those plumber's vans that you see driving around
> all the time. The plumber has all of his equipment right there, and he just
> does his job out of the back.

In the grimoire, at the beginning of the Enchanting section, it describes an
Enchanter's Kit as taking up some 50 square meters of space. Sorry, this
should read "Shop" instead ... mea culpa ...

This means ... a kit takes up 1 CF at most ...

A Shop takes up 200 CF ...

And a Facility takes anywhere from 600 + CF on up ... depending on the cost
multiplier for the facility in question multiplied by 200.

> "A facility is immobile because of the bulky, heavy machinery involved."
> To me, that means you can't even put one of these into the back of a 1000
> CF tractor/trailor to haul it around, let alone set it up and use it.

I agree ... and sometime just sticking something in the minimum space does not
mean that it is easily accessible ... perhaps tacking on an additional 12 to
18 CF for "moving around" room ?

> But, like you said, whatever works for you. :)

Yeppers ...

-Herc
------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
Message no. 7
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: More CF questions
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 07:16:26 EDT
In a message dated 8/5/98 8:26:34 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
baishen@**********.COM writes:

> > > Anybody know how much CF a shop takes up(packed, and all set up).
> > It is known that an Enchanter's Kit takes up 50 square meters of space
...
> > which amounts to some 200 CF or so ...
> > So, we used this number, along with the cost multipliers for kits, shops,
> and
> > facilities to come up with the CF sizes for shops and facilities ...
> > Shops have a 600 CF requirement ...
> > Facilities have a 1,000 CF requirement ...
>
> Is that packed, or set up?

Probably packed up ... as the description of an Enchanter's Shop from the
Grimoire says that that is when it is in storage mode ... so, as I said before
in another posting, perhaps adding in an additional 12 to 18 CF for "moving
around room? sounds nifty.

-Herc
------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
Message no. 8
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: More CF questions
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 07:28:41 EDT
In a message dated 8/5/98 9:15:28 PM US Eastern Standard Time, Schizi@***=
.COM writes:

> Airwasp@***.com
> writes:
>
> >
> > It is known that an Enchanter's Kit takes up 50 square meters of sp=
ace ...
>
> > which amounts to some 200 CF or so ...
> >
> actually since the kits fit in a backpack, I think 50 M² is a bit mu=
ch. The
> 50
> M² listed in the grimoire is for how much room a SHOP needs, not a k=
it.
> It also mentions that a shop can be stored in a van, though not used=
until
> set up (requiring the 50 M²) I assume a kit also would need to be sc=
attered
> somewhat out of the backpack.

Sorry again about that .. I forgot that it was a Shop and not a Kit as I =
said earlier ...

> Shops and Factories are stable and cannot be stored as such.

Umm ... Facilities, not factories ... a facility is something on par with=
the garages for some of the larger automobile dealerships near you ...

They don't mention how much a factory would cost ... but I have an idea .=
.. consider the output per month ... for every single unit of productio=
n, you need one facility to make that one unit of production ... want t=
o make 10 things a month ... make sure you have 10 facilities available=
then ...

-Herc
------ The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
Message no. 9
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: More CF questions
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 20:19:50 EDT
In a message dated 8/6/98 4:29:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Airwasp@***.COM
writes:

> Sorry again about that .. I forgot that it was a Shop and not a Kit as I
said
> earlier ...
no prob, I actually replied before you corrected :-)
Message no. 10
From: Steven McCormick <stardust@***.NET>
Subject: Re: More CF questions
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 20:30:21 -0500
At 07:11 AM 8/6/98 EDT, Mike Bobroff wrote:
>
>Nice ta here from ya Blue ...

Hehe, yeah well, ya know how us part time lurkers are... :)

>
>> According to the BBB pg. 244:
>>
>> "A shop is trasportable in a large van or small truck." Now, whether
you
>> can use the shop when it's in one of these vehicles is another
question. I
>> tend to look at them like those plumber's vans that you see driving around
>> all the time. The plumber has all of his equipment right there, and he
just
>> does his job out of the back.
>
>In the grimoire, at the beginning of the Enchanting section, it describes an
>Enchanter's Kit as taking up some 50 square meters of space. Sorry, this
>should read "Shop" instead ... mea culpa ...
>
>This means ... a kit takes up 1 CF at most ...
>
>A Shop takes up 200 CF ...
>

So, now if we go to R2 and max out the CF on a van chassis, we get 250 CF.
Add one shop and the CF for "move around" space, and wah-lah! Of course,
as soon as you start adding armour and other goodies to the van this extra
space will go away rapidly. IMO, using a van to operate a shop out of
would be an extermely tight fit (starts raising TN's for B/R rolls :)),
especially since, if you're on a run, you're very likely *not* going to be
working "out of the back" like a plumber. Probably wiser to use a medium
transport for this purpose. Also, I was thinking more along the lines of
an electronics shop than an enchanters shop. I just can't see myself
hauling around a bunch of spare Orichalcum in my van (no matter how well
armoured it is) :).

BlueMule
Message no. 11
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: More CF questions
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 11:42:45 EDT
In a message dated 8/6/98 8:36:35 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
stardust@***.NET writes:

> So, now if we go to R2 and max out the CF on a van chassis, we get 250 CF.
> Add one shop and the CF for "move around" space, and wah-lah! Of course,
> as soon as you start adding armour and other goodies to the van this extra
> space will go away rapidly. IMO, using a van to operate a shop out of
> would be an extermely tight fit (starts raising TN's for B/R rolls :)),
> especially since, if you're on a run, you're very likely *not* going to be
> working "out of the back" like a plumber. Probably wiser to use a medium
> transport for this purpose. Also, I was thinking more along the lines of
> an electronics shop than an enchanters shop. I just can't see myself
> hauling around a bunch of spare Orichalcum in my van (no matter how well
> armoured it is) :).

The way I look at it ... all shops are roughly the same size ... the only
difference happens to be in the price range ... so a Electronics Shop in a van
is doable ... though perhaps it will only be capable of having one person
using it at a time though ...

-Herc
------ The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
Message no. 12
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: More CF questions
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 20:45:38 EDT
In a message dated 8/6/98 6:36:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time, stardust@***.=
NET writes:

> So, now if we go to R2 and max out the CF on a van chassis, we get 250 =
CF.
> Add one shop and the CF for "move around" space, and wah-lah! Of cour=
se,
> as soon as you start adding armour and other goodies to the van this e=
xtra
> space will go away rapidly. IMO, using a van to operate a shop out of
> would be an extermely tight fit (starts raising TN's for B/R rolls :))=
,
> especially since, if you're on a run, you're very likely *not* going t=
o be
> working "out of the back" like a plumber. Probably wiser to use a med=
ium
> transport for this purpose. Also, I was thinking more along the lines=
of
> an electronics shop than an enchanters shop. I just can't see myself
> hauling around a bunch of spare Orichalcum in my van (no matter how we=
ll
> armoured it is) :).
>

Actually the shop needs to cover 50 M², a CF is only 1/8 of a M³. A=
rea vs. volume.
I do not think any van will have enough floor space for 50 M². Even wi=
th shelves and such I do not see it as possible. they say that it can f=
it in a van for transport.

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