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Message no. 1
From: Shades <thompssr@****.COLORADO.EDU>
Subject: More dumb questions
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 21:00:08 -0600
And now for a whole (semi)new batch of moronic questions.....

1) It says in the SRII book that when using a second weapon, you add
+2 to each weapon's target number, and lose any smartlink or laser
sight benefits. Well....
a) Why must you lose the benefits?
If you're firing two weapons, I would think that having two
points of red light would still make it easier than pointing the gun
at the target (never having fired two at once, I wouldn't know but..)
b) If you are using two guns, do you have to spend a simple
action to fire each one (getting two shots?), or does one simple
action cover the firing of both guns at the same time (getting four
shots.)

2) My friend mentioned something about not being able to use
firearms withing melee combat. He said that he was pretty sure it
was in the rules somewhere, but I couldn't find any mention of this.
Is this true at all?

3) Speaking of Melee combat, the way I have read it, Any initiative
bonuses are completely worthless. Please kick me if I have gotten it
wrong but:
Will Wired has an Initiative of 12+4d6 and an Unarmed of 3.
Kelly Karate has an Initiative of 4+1d6 and a Karate of 8.

Rolling initiative, Will gets a 25 and Kelly gets an 8. Therefore,
Will blazes in to attack Kelly. Rolling against a 4, Will gets 2
successes, but Kelly gets 5. "Not today tin-man.", as she obtains
speed from nowhere and strikes Will. Again at turn 15, Will rolls 1
success, Kelly rolls 5. More whamming on Will. Now at turn 8, Kelly
gets to attack! Will rolls 2, Kelly 3. Will still gets hurt. Turn
5: Will 3, Kelly 4....Will goes to the hospital, Kelly scampers off
unscathed. The result is, even though Will is the one with wired
reflexes and outrageous speed, Kelly (with no increases) slaps him
silly 4 times in a combat round.
Sorry for the long explanation but......comments?


That's about it for now.....I'm sure I'll be annoying you later. C
ya!
Message no. 2
From: "Jason Carter, Nightstalker" <CARTER@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 22:45:46 -0700
Shades asked:

>And now for a whole (semi)new batch of moronic questions.....

If you say they are, they must be. Now moronic questions come from morons,
right?

>1) It says in the SRII book that when using a second weapon, you add
>+2 to each weapon's target number, and lose any smartlink or laser
>sight benefits. Well....
> a) Why must you lose the benefits?
> If you're firing two weapons, I would think that having two
>points of red light would still make it easier than pointing the gun
>at the target (never having fired two at once, I wouldn't know but..)

First of all, your smartgun link is in one hand. Thus it works for one
gun. Secondly, if you had two red lights, which is which gun?

> b) If you are using two guns, do you have to spend a simple
>action to fire each one (getting two shots?), or does one simple
>action cover the firing of both guns at the same time (getting four
>shots.)

A simple action will allow you to fire both weapons. Thus you can fire
four times.

>2) My friend mentioned something about not being able to use
>firearms withing melee combat. He said that he was pretty sure it
>was in the rules somewhere, but I couldn't find any mention of this.
>Is this true at all?

No. However there is a +2 target number per oppenent in melee combat.
See SRII page 89-90.

>3) Speaking of Melee combat, the way I have read it, Any initiative
>bonuses are completely worthless. Please kick me if I have gotten it
>wrong but:
>Will Wired has an Initiative of 12+4d6 and an Unarmed of 3.
>Kelly Karate has an Initiative of 4+1d6 and a Karate of 8.

>Rolling initiative, Will gets a 25 and Kelly gets an 8. Therefore,
>Will blazes in to attack Kelly. Rolling against a 4, Will gets 2
>successes, but Kelly gets 5. "Not today tin-man.", as she obtains
>speed from nowhere and strikes Will. Again at turn 15, Will rolls 1
>success, Kelly rolls 5. More whamming on Will. Now at turn 8, Kelly
>gets to attack! Will rolls 2, Kelly 3. Will still gets hurt. Turn
>5: Will 3, Kelly 4....Will goes to the hospital, Kelly scampers off
>unscathed. The result is, even though Will is the one with wired
>reflexes and outrageous speed, Kelly (with no increases) slaps him
>silly 4 times in a combat round.
> Sorry for the long explanation but......comments?

Two things:

1) Your example is extreme. If the skill levels were closer the result
would be different.

2) Your forgetting Combat Pools. Will gets to use his combat pool twice
while Kelly gets to use it once.

*******************************************************************************
* See Ya in Shadows * * "Trust No One." *
* Jason J Carter * Carter@***.EDU * The late Deep Throat *
* The Nightstalker * * The X-Files *
*******************************************************************************
Message no. 3
From: Spellslinger <mruane@***.UUG.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 01:04:32 -0700
And speaking of combat pools (pools in general, too)...

We discovered that a refreshed pool each action requires an unholy amount
of dice rolling. Apache/Mad Cat has a combat pool of 17, and for combat
spells, my magic pool is 15. We both have 4d6 init. Mad Cat's average
init is 32 and mine is 27. Our personal addendum to the rules is to
allow a refreshed pool every turn. Any comments?

Mike aka Spellslinger
Message no. 4
From: Iz The Wiz! <HB011TRP01@****************.AC.UK>
Subject: More dumb questions
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 09:42:00 GMT
Nightstalker said:
>Shades asked:

>>And now for a whole (semi)new batch of moronic questions.....

>If you say they are, they must be. Now moronic questions come from morons,
>right?

>>1) It says in the SRII book that when using a second weapon, you add
>>+2 to each weapon's target number, and lose any smartlink or laser
>>sight benefits. Well....
>> a) Why must you lose the benefits?
>> If you're firing two weapons, I would think that having two
>>points of red light would still make it easier than pointing the gun
>>at the target (never having fired two at once, I wouldn't know but..)

>First of all, your smartgun link is in one hand. Thus it works for one
>gun. Secondly, if you had two red lights, which is which gun?

What about having Two Smartgun links? (Run through an Encaphalon?)

Just a thought.

Iz The Wiz!
Message no. 5
From: Damion Milliken <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 19:43:31 +1000
The Nightstalker writes:

> First of all, your smartgun link is in one hand. Thus it works for one
> gun. Secondly, if you had two red lights, which is which gun?

Well, it doesn't matter if I am shooting both weapons at the same target,
sinse I am trying to get both dots on the victims body, I don't really care
if I don't know which dot is which gun, as long as both of them are on
target.

Also, would it be possible to have two different coloured dots? Or, as
someone pointed out, one of those head processor thingys? (Not that I really
see what that would do to help, but I think I'm missing something there.)

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong e-mail: u9467882@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+(d) H s++:-- !g p? !au a18 w+ v(?) C+(++) US++ P? L !3 E?
N K- W+ M@ !V po@ Y(+) t+ !5 !j R+(++) G(+)('') !tv(--)@ b++ D+
B? e+ u@ h* f(+) !r n--(----) !y+
Message no. 6
From: Damion Milliken <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 19:45:01 +1000
Mike writes:

> We discovered that a refreshed pool each action requires an unholy amount
> of dice rolling. Apache/Mad Cat has a combat pool of 17, and for combat
> spells, my magic pool is 15. We both have 4d6 init. Mad Cat's average
> init is 32 and mine is 27. Our personal addendum to the rules is to
> allow a refreshed pool every turn. Any comments?

Well, as long as it's consistent, I couldn't really see any problems with
it. Only it might make things a little deadly for both sides, as dodging
will be somewhat difficult.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong e-mail: u9467882@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+(d) H s++:-- !g p? !au a18 w+ v(?) C+(++) US++ P? L !3 E?
N K- W+ M@ !V po@ Y(+) t+ !5 !j R+(++) G(+)('') !tv(--)@ b++ D+
B? e+ u@ h* f(+) !r n--(----) !y+
Message no. 7
From: Stefan Struck <struck@******.INFORMATIK.UNI-BONN.DE>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 12:42:12 +0100
Damion writes:
>
> Mike writes:
>
> > We discovered that a refreshed pool each action requires an unholy amount
> > of dice rolling. Apache/Mad Cat has a combat pool of 17, and for combat
> > spells, my magic pool is 15. We both have 4d6 init. Mad Cat's average
> > init is 32 and mine is 27. Our personal addendum to the rules is to
> > allow a refreshed pool every turn. Any comments?
>
> Well, as long as it's consistent, I couldn't really see any problems with
> it. Only it might make things a little deadly for both sides, as dodging
> will be somewhat difficult.
have to agree here ... and a combat pool of 17 and magic pool of 15 are
a lot of dice. if you got one of these you're beyound normal limits, so
it's o.k. when you stomp every gutter-punk on the street with pools of
6 (and that's a lot to)
...hmmm, thinking of it: how do you get 17 dice in the combat pool? Must
be way beyond racial max.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stefan, Son of Yuboert Internet: struck@******.informatik.uni-bonn.de
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"To do is to be" --- Satre
"To be is to do" --- Sokrates
"Do be do be do" --- Sinatra [Taken from
"Subway"]
Message no. 8
From: Damion Milliken <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 21:54:26 +1000
Stefan writes:

> ...hmmm, thinking of it: how do you get 17 dice in the combat pool? Must
> be way beyond racial max.

Brrrrr, Whirrrrr, Ding!

<Munchkin Mode On>

Hey, no problemo! It's easy!

All ya gotta do is get ya stats at max (all 9's), then ya automatically have
a base of 27/2 (which is 13 if this's all ya have), then ya just put on +4
spell locks to all o' ya stats, making your total now 39/2 (equals 19 for
those who don't know), and then all ya gotta do is put in muscle
augumentation, then lock on a combat sense, then....

Brrrrrr, Whinnnee, Gook.

<Munchkin Mode Off>

You can see that even with stats of 6 (if your GM doesn't allow the 1.5x
Racial Max rule), you can still all too easily obtain enourmous combat pools.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong e-mail: u9467882@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+(d) H s++:-- !g p? !au a18 w+ v(?) C+(++) US++ P? L !3 E?
N K- W+ M@ !V po@ Y(+) t+ !5 !j R+(++) G(+)('') !tv(--)@ b++ D+
B? e+ u@ h* f(+) !r n--(----) !y+
Message no. 9
From: Stefan Struck <struck@******.INFORMATIK.UNI-BONN.DE>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 13:05:34 +0100
Damion writes:
> Hey, no problemo! It's easy!
>
> All ya gotta do is get ya stats at max (all 9's), then ya automatically have
> a base of 27/2 (which is 13 if this's all ya have), then ya just put on +4
> spell locks to all o' ya stats, making your total now 39/2 (equals 19 for
> those who don't know), and then all ya gotta do is put in muscle
> augumentation, then lock on a combat sense, then....
I see. But spell locks aren't so popular in my campaign, 'cause they tend
to attract spells from magician which just are hanging around. We got a
very nasty encounter with a (small) fireball spell grounded through a
increase reflexes spell lock. (Ahh, the look on their faces were quit a
show. Sorry, forgot my camera that day)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stefan, Son of Yuboert Internet: struck@******.informatik.uni-bonn.de
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"To do is to be" --- Satre
"To be is to do" --- Sokrates
"Do be do be do" --- Sinatra [Taken from
"Subway"]
Message no. 10
From: Matt Hufstetler <gt2778a@*****.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 10:40:45 -0400
> And now for a whole (semi)new batch of moronic questions.....

[stuff about two weapons cut]

> 3) Speaking of Melee combat, the way I have read it, Any initiative
> bonuses are completely worthless. Please kick me if I have gotten it
> wrong but:
> Will Wired has an Initiative of 12+4d6 and an Unarmed of 3.
> Kelly Karate has an Initiative of 4+1d6 and a Karate of 8.
>
[stuff about being hit 4 times in one combat even though he rolled a 25]

> Sorry for the long explanation but......comments?

You happen to forget the fact that he has a combat pool. If he has a
combat pool of 5, he adds all of it in the first time he attacks. Kelly
Karate will probably want to add some of hers in too. The only thing is,
she doesn't refresh hers until her action comes around. Will Wired will
(whew) be able to hit her once more with his full pool before she can counter.
[BTW, I allow you to add in up to twice your skill in combat pool dice.
It just seemed to be too much of a restriction.]
Message no. 11
From: "Wesley W. Walker" <wwalker@****.UARK.EDU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 10:47:45 -0500
Hey, would anyone mind if I posted a chain letter here that promises
great sex if mailed out withing 96 hours?

\||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||/
/\ / 3 - Wes W. Walker -
/\\\ /\ / - Raving Lunatics Association Member -
\\\\\ /\\\ / - CSCI amatuer & Artiste wanna-be -
\\\\\ /\\\\\ / - -
\\\\\ / \\\\\ / - "This is a test of the e-mail -
\\\\\/ \\\\\/ - broadcast system. If this was an -
\\\/ \\\/ - actual emergency, you'd be dead." -
\/ \/ es - -vaguely Eric Chuang -
/||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||\
Message no. 12
From: Michel Racine <racine@********.HYDRO.QC.CA>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 11:47:42 EDT
Since we can only focus on one thing (maybe a background, but not a single
target), the use of two smarlink gun will be confusing.

The use of an encaphalon (NERPS Shadowlore I think) with multitasking could for
example target two person (with different color dots) for the player.
Then the two firearms could shot at once at different target or
at the same target.
(You still need two smartlink connected the the encephalon headware and
maybe the use of a skill wire will help)

But I'll still add the +2 target number for the second firearm.
It'a an idea, what 'da think?.

-Racine
Message no. 13
From: Michel Racine <racine@********.HYDRO.QC.CA>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 11:52:42 EDT
For the dice pool that are too big (and the ones that are OK), I handle them
this way: the dice pools only refresh at a new initiative calculation.

That bring the caracter to choose between keeping the dice for damage
resistence test or to keep them for shooting.

-Racine
Message no. 14
From: Adi Marcus <s1685736@********.TECHNION.AC.IL>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 18:19:15 +0200
> > 3) Speaking of Melee combat, the way I have read it, Any initiative
> > bonuses are completely worthless. Please kick me if I have gotten it
> > wrong but:
> > Will Wired has an Initiative of 12+4d6 and an Unarmed of 3.
> > Kelly Karate has an Initiative of 4+1d6 and a Karate of 8.
> >
> [stuff about being hit 4 times in one combat even though he rolled a 25]
> > Sorry for the long explanation but......comments?
>
I have never been pleased with the HTH rules of FASA.
so this is a system that has served me well in the past:
a hand strike does (STR)L damage and is considered a simple action.
a kick does (STR+2)M and is considered +1 for reach (trolls +1 aren't
commulative with the kick +1 , they simply have +1 for their hands as
well as for their legs (remember the hand\body lengs ratio of a troll))
all melee weapons of 0 reach require a simple action.
all melee weapons greater then 0 reach require a complex action to use.

any coments\improvements will be apriciated.....

Life Is Hell
Message no. 15
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 11:33:22 -0500
On Fri, 21 Oct 1994, Wesley W. Walker wrote:

> Hey, would anyone mind if I posted a chain letter here that promises
> great sex if mailed out withing 96 hours?

You wouldn't live to see it....

____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> I do not necessarily speak for the
\/ Finger for PGP Public Key <=> City of Mankato or anyone else
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 2.1) GJ/CM d- H-- s-:++>s-:+ g+ p? au+ a- w++ v* C++(++++) UL++++$
P+>++ L++$ 3- E---- N+++ K+++ W M+ V-- -po+(---)>$ Y++ t+ 5+++
j R+++$ G- tv+ b+ D+ B--- e+>++(*) u** h* f r-->+++ !n y++**
Message no. 16
From: "Wesley W. Walker" <wwalker@****.UARK.EDU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 11:46:24 -0500
> You wouldn't live to see it....

Geeze. Enhance your calm, Citizen Hayden. *heh*

\||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||/
/\ / 3 - Wes W. Walker -
/\\\ /\ / - Raving Lunatics Association Member -
\\\\\ /\\\ / - CSCI amatuer & Artiste wanna-be -
\\\\\ /\\\\\ / - -
\\\\\ / \\\\\ / - "This is a test of the e-mail -
\\\\\/ \\\\\/ - broadcast system. If this was an -
\\\/ \\\/ - actual emergency, you'd be dead." -
\/ \/ es - -vaguely Eric Chuang -
/||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||\
Message no. 17
From: "Wow, Reality. That's a switch" <MHILLIARD@****.ALBION.EDU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 12:51:50 -0500
YES.
Message no. 18
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 14:04:37 -0400
On Fri, 21 Oct 1994, Spellslinger wrote:

> And speaking of combat pools (pools in general, too)...
>
> We discovered that a refreshed pool each action requires an unholy amount
> of dice rolling. Apache/Mad Cat has a combat pool of 17, and for combat
> spells, my magic pool is 15. We both have 4d6 init. Mad Cat's average
> init is 32 and mine is 27. Our personal addendum to the rules is to
> allow a refreshed pool every turn. Any comments?

Do you realize that in order for this to happen, your combined
Quickness+Intelligence+Willpower has to be a 34? That's very nearly a
twelve in each score. Either that or you have one HELL of a combat sense
locked/quickened (target). For magic pool of 15 you need a sorcery skill
(or appropriate concentration/specialization) of 15, or have one HELL of
a power focus. Methinks y'all are playing a VERY different type of game,
and so your system would not be adequate for what most of the rest of us
do. For myself, if my comabat pool didn't refresh fully and often, my
characters would die in short order. Difference in gaming styles, I guess.

Marc (don't tell my that YOUR characters have 300+ karma pools!)
Message no. 19
From: Erik S Jameson <esj@***.UUG.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 17:36:58 -0700
> Do you realize that in order for this to happen, your combined
> Quickness+Intelligence+Willpower has to be a 34? That's very nearly a
> twelve in each score. Either that or you have one HELL of a combat sense
> locked/quickened (target). For magic pool of 15 you need a sorcery skill
> (or appropriate concentration/specialization) of 15, or have one HELL of
> a power focus. Methinks y'all are playing a VERY different type of game,
> and so your system would not be adequate for what most of the rest of us
> do. For myself, if my comabat pool didn't refresh fully and often, my
> characters would die in short order. Difference in gaming styles, I guess.
>
> Marc (don't tell my that YOUR characters have 300+ karma pools!)
>
A couple of things here. We do play with the 1.5x rule currently, and
Apache/Mad Cat is loaded with cyber. But then again, that character has
been in existence for several years now. And the magic pool of 15? Try
a high sorcery skill and several power foci (right SS?) I mean, with all
my foci and skill, when I throw a combat spell, I can put 21! dice into
it, not counting the dice for the spell itself! But don't ever accuse us
(Spellslinger or myself) of munchkining. We have been all playing our
characters for several years now, and we don't go on cheese runs. We,
every week, go up against major corps (nothing new there, except the
difficulty level), the Brotherhood, or other VERY BAD THINGS, like the
Cult of Cthulhu, including your friend and mine, Nyaralothotep (sp?).
And that is just to start off. We run a very high powered campaign, with
powerful enemies and powerful characters. And trust me, it is not easy.
For example, my character (the Whistler) is STILL trying to find out who
killed his fiance. And she was killed last spring. Mike (Spellslinger)
has me running around in circles, facing a foe of unknown strength and
power. So we EARN our karma.

BTW, we don't use karma pools. Our entire group thinks karma pools are
stupid, so we don't use them. Instead, we follow SRI rules on karma. So
we earn a lot of karma, but we also burn a lot of karma. Spellslinger
actually LOST karma on our last adventure!

So back off on the veiled accusations of munchkining...

Erik, a.k.a. the Whistler
Message no. 20
From: Skrub <mccllstr@*****.BUCKNELL.EDU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 21:12:43 -0400
>unscathed. The result is, even though Will is the one with wired
>reflexes and outrageous speed, Kelly (with no increases) slaps him
>silly 4 times in a combat round.
> Sorry for the long explanation but......comments?
>

However, Will is gonna be getting a whole lot more than 3 dice. His combat
pool gets refeshed each action...

Still doesn't seem quite right, but better.

Brian McCallister The lions sing and the hills take flight.
The moon by day, and the sun by night.
Skrub Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool.
Let the Lord of Chaos rule. -R. Jordan
<mccllstr@*****.bucknell.edu>
Message no. 21
From: Skrub <mccllstr@*****.BUCKNELL.EDU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 21:19:36 -0400
>We discovered that a refreshed pool each action requires an unholy amount
>of dice rolling. Apache/Mad Cat has a combat pool of 17, and for combat
>spells, my magic pool is 15. We both have 4d6 init. Mad Cat's average
>init is 32 and mine is 27. Our personal addendum to the rules is to
>allow a refreshed pool every turn. Any comments?

Just as a point of reference, and a question. Do you play in Ivy's campaign?


Brian McCallister The lions sing and the hills take flight.
The moon by day, and the sun by night.
Skrub Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool.
Let the Lord of Chaos rule. -R. Jordan
<mccllstr@*****.bucknell.edu>
Message no. 22
From: Spellslinger <mruane@***.UUG.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 18:30:13 -0700
On Fri, 21 Oct 1994, Skrub wrote:

> >We discovered that a refreshed pool each action requires an unholy amount
> >of dice rolling. Apache/Mad Cat has a combat pool of 17, and for combat
> >spells, my magic pool is 15. We both have 4d6 init. Mad Cat's average
> >init is 32 and mine is 27. Our personal addendum to the rules is to
> >allow a refreshed pool every turn. Any comments?
>
> Just as a point of reference, and a question. Do you play in Ivy's campaign?

Ivy who? Mike Ivy? We don't really have a single GM campaign, it's a
roving campaign between 3 GMs.

Oh, while I've got everyone's attention:

My average Joe comment: Sorry, I meant 6 is max for the average Joe.
Bob Pedestrian has 3's across the board.

My Magic pool: Sorry again. I'm talking dice from combat spell foci and
one from a power foci. My ally helps as only Bjork can. And she can
make a mean lasagna. besides, I did specify for >>combat spells<<.

Mike aka Spellslinger
Message no. 23
From: Skrub <mccllstr@*****.BUCKNELL.EDU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 21:33:02 -0400
>Hey, would anyone mind if I posted a chain letter here that promises
>great sex if mailed out withing 96 hours?

Actually I made a script to handle that exact chain letter once. It mails
1,500 copies of said chain letter back to the sender. And just in case the
sender then sends me 30,000 copies in return, I modifeid the script to send
out 600,000. I didn't have to use the 600,000 one though.


Brian McCallister The lions sing and the hills take flight.
The moon by day, and the sun by night.
Skrub Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool.
Let the Lord of Chaos rule. -R. Jordan
<mccllstr@*****.bucknell.edu>
Message no. 24
From: Erik S Jameson <esj@***.UUG.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 18:34:48 -0700
> My ally helps as only Bjork can. And she can
> make a mean lasagna.
>
> Mike aka Spellslinger
>
She may be able to make lasagna, but can she make a good burger? I mean,
GOOD burger?

Erik, a.k.a. the Whistler
Message no. 25
From: Spellslinger <mruane@***.UUG.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 18:38:49 -0700
On Fri, 21 Oct 1994, Skrub wrote:

> >Hey, would anyone mind if I posted a chain letter here that promises
> >great sex if mailed out withing 96 hours?
>
> Actually I made a script to handle that exact chain letter once. It mails
> 1,500 copies of said chain letter back to the sender. And just in case the
> sender then sends me 30,000 copies in return, I modifeid the script to send
> out 600,000. I didn't have to use the 600,000 one though.
>
Hahahahahahahaha! Remind me never to send you chain letters! Or letters
period! :-)
Message no. 26
From: "J.D. Falk" <jdfalk@****.CAIS.COM>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 1994 00:09:46 -0400
On Fri, 21 Oct 1994, Wesley W. Walker wrote:

> Hey, would anyone mind if I posted a chain letter here that promises
> great sex if mailed out withing 96 hours?

Chain letters are illegal in most countries, and are not
appreciated on any mailing list or newsgroup.
Please read the appropriate netiquette documents for more
information. They are automatically posted to news.announce.newusers
each month, and can also be found many places in gopherspace and the
World Wide Web.

/-----------------\ "We all wanna be big stars,
| J.D. Falk | But we don't know why
| jdfalk@****.com | And we don't know how."
\-----------------/ -Counting Crows
Message no. 27
From: "Wesley W. Walker" <wwalker@****.UARK.EDU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 23:28:45 -0500
Geeze...It was a *joke*, guys! Catch a clue! *throws a clue for you guys*

The mail message was deleted a LONG time ago.

\||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||/
- Wes W. Walker (wwalker@****.uark.edu) * "Truth is well disguised lie and -
- CSCI Major and General Slave * never immediately apparent." -
- Artiste Wanna-be (accepting donations)* -Me -
/||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||\
Message no. 28
From: Malcalypse The Younger <shadow@******.NET>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 1994 00:55:24 -0400
On Thu, 20 Oct 1994, Jason Carter, Nightstalker wrote:


> > If you're firing two weapons, I would think that having two
> >points of red light would still make it easier than pointing the gun
> >at the target (never having fired two at once, I wouldn't know but..)
>
> First of all, your smartgun link is in one hand. Thus it works for one
> gun. Secondly, if you had two red lights, which is which gun?

So? I want to hit some one twice in the same general area. I see two
little red dots in that area. Who cares which is which weapon? I can see
losing the bonus on an aimed shot (unless they are both aimed shot to the
same area?)

>
> >3) Speaking of Melee combat, the way I have read it, Any initiative
> >bonuses are completely worthless. Please kick me if I have gotten it
> >wrong but:
> >Will Wired has an Initiative of 12+4d6 and an Unarmed of 3.
> >Kelly Karate has an Initiative of 4+1d6 and a Karate of 8.
>
[COmbat example deleted]
>
> Two things:
>
> 1) Your example is extreme. If the skill levels were closer the result
> would be different.
>
> 2) Your forgetting Combat Pools. Will gets to use his combat pool twice
> while Kelly gets to use it once.
>

Also, if Will happened to be using a gun of some sort, things would be
very different. Why in the world would someone with say, a white belt, go
up against a 2nd degree black belt hand to hand? They wouldn't. They
would take thier Assault Cannon or whatever and blow them away at range.
Then that initiative bonus is VERY usefull. (ie, I shoot you twice, you
get your combat pool only once, you are probably hurt... and then you TNs
all go up, etc.) That's where those initiative bonuses are good.
Message no. 29
From: "Wow, Reality. That's a switch" <MHILLIARD@****.ALBION.EDU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 1994 00:40:26 -0500
> Actually I made a script to handle that exact chain letter once. It mails
> 1,500 copies of said chain letter back to the sender. And just in case the
> sender then sends me 30,000 copies in return, I modifeid the script to send
> out 600,000. I didn't have to use the 600,000 one though.

Hey, I don't suppose you could make that available to the public? I could
use that! *evil grin*

Phelan
Message no. 30
From: Malcalypse The Younger <shadow@******.NET>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 1994 01:37:53 -0400
> Marc (don't tell my that YOUR characters have 300+ karma pools!)

Ugh. My oldest character has a karma pool of around 24 dice (which, I
believe is very large). This is also a character that has been played
sporadicaly since long before the 2nd Ed. eules came out.... He's going
in to retirement very soon now (just one more run....) and I'm going to
start a new character... Sigh. Oh well.
Message no. 31
From: Damion Milliken <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 1994 15:44:43 +1000
Racine writes:

> But I'll still add the +2 target number for the second firearm.
> It'a an idea, what 'da think?.

Yep, if someone wanted to munchkinise everything so much that they could
fire two smartlinked weapons simultaneously and receives both smartlink
modidfiers, I'd make it awful difficult for them. The encalphen (sp?, which
is from shadowtech I think), and the skillwire requirements would be quite
appropriate I think, and a +2 on the second firearm goes down well with me.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong e-mail: u9467882@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+(d) H s++:-- !g p? !au a18 w+ v(?) C+(++) US++ P? L !3 E?
N K- W+ M@ !V po@ Y(+) t+ !5 !j R+(++) G(+)('') !tv(--)@ b++ D+
B? e+ u@ h* f(+) !r n--(----) !y+
Message no. 32
From: Damion Milliken <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 1994 15:49:59 +1000
Life Is Hell(?) writes:

> I have never been pleased with the HTH rules of FASA.
> so this is a system that has served me well in the past:
> a hand strike does (STR)L damage and is considered a simple action.
> a kick does (STR+2)M and is considered +1 for reach (trolls +1 aren't
> commulative with the kick +1 , they simply have +1 for their hands as
> well as for their legs (remember the hand\body lengs ratio of a troll))
> all melee weapons of 0 reach require a simple action.
> all melee weapons greater then 0 reach require a complex action to use.

I like these rules; they also solve the problem of not being able to draw a
melee weapon and use it in the same action (which stops many of my players
using melee weapons which are, I have to admit, great fun).

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong e-mail: u9467882@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+(d) H s++:-- !g p? !au a18 w+ v(?) C+(++) US++ P? L !3 E?
N K- W+ M@ !V po@ Y(+) t+ !5 !j R+(++) G(+)('') !tv(--)@ b++ D+
B? e+ u@ h* f(+) !r n--(----) !y+
Message no. 33
From: Damion Milliken <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 1994 16:08:08 +1000
Mike writes:

> Ivy who? Mike Ivy? We don't really have a single GM campaign, it's a
> roving campaign between 3 GMs.

You mean you don't know who Ivy is? You are deprived my child. BTW, does
anyone know if Ivy is going to get back onto the 'net? I miss my flame wars
with Ivy <grin>.

Perhaps a mention of the most illustrious personalities on the list (or
ex-on the list) should be made in the FAQ? Many of the references to people
I do not grasp, and I wouldn't mind knowing a little history of the list
myself.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong e-mail: u9467882@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+(d) H s++:-- !g p? !au a18 w+ v(?) C+(++) US++ P? L !3 E?
N K- W+ M@ !V po@ Y(+) t+ !5 !j R+(++) G(+)('') !tv(--)@ b++ D+
B? e+ u@ h* f(+) !r n--(----) !y+
Message no. 34
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 1994 15:20:24 -0400
On Fri, 21 Oct 1994, Erik S Jameson wrote:

> actually LOST karma on our last adventure!

Yep. This is a regular occurrence with us, too.

> So back off on the veiled accusations of munchkining...

Touchy! Touchy! I was not making "veiled accusations" about
anything. I was saying that we have different styles of playing. I'm
not saying that you are a "munchkin" or that you are a power-hungry gamer
who gets his karma for free. I just said it was different. For what you
guys are doing, it would appear as though a magic attribute of 21 is
almost necessary. So lighten up.

Marc
Message no. 35
From: Spellslinger <mruane@***.UUG.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 1994 13:26:06 -0700
On Sat, 22 Oct 1994, Marc A Renouf wrote:

> On Fri, 21 Oct 1994, Erik S Jameson wrote:
>
> > actually LOST karma on our last adventure!
>
> Yep. This is a regular occurrence with us, too.
>
> > So back off on the veiled accusations of munchkining...
>
> Touchy! Touchy! I was not making "veiled accusations" about
> anything. I was saying that we have different styles of playing. I'm
> not saying that you are a "munchkin" or that you are a power-hungry gamer
> who gets his karma for free. I just said it was different. For what you
> guys are doing, it would appear as though a magic attribute of 21 is
> almost necessary. So lighten up.
>
> Marc
>
Well, different GM rules, etc. GM Matt regularly kicked our asses. Matt
wasn't a killer GM. It's just that his adventures had a nasty habit of
killing everyone. Scott's campaigns are more rigged twoards our special
abilites (Spellslinger's academic persuits and archaelogical interests
have been used the past two adventures). Granted our characters are old
enough to specialize. We manage to survive better in Scotts campaigns,
but I think the survival is a reflection of our increased skill and
playing ability. You learn how to survive better as time progresses.

Mike
Message no. 36
From: Shadowdancer <BRIDDLE@*****.VINU.EDU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 1994 16:40:30 EST
> >3) Speaking of Melee combat, the way I have read it, Any initiative
> >bonuses are completely worthless. Please kick me if I have gotten
it
> >wrong but:
> >Will Wired has an Initiative of 12+4d6 and an Unarmed of 3.
> >Kelly Karate has an Initiative of 4+1d6 and a Karate of 8.
>
> >Rolling initiative, Will gets a 25 and Kelly gets an 8. Therefore,
> >Will blazes in to attack Kelly. Rolling against a 4, Will gets 2
> >successes, but Kelly gets 5. "Not today tin-man.", as she obtains
> >speed from nowhere and strikes Will. Again at turn 15, Will rolls 1
> >success, Kelly rolls 5. More whamming on Will. Now at turn 8,
Kelly
> >gets to attack! Will rolls 2, Kelly 3. Will still gets hurt. Turn
> >5: Will 3, Kelly 4....Will goes to the hospital, Kelly scampers off
> >unscathed. The result is, even though Will is the one with wired
> >reflexes and outrageous speed, Kelly (with no increases) slaps
him
> >silly 4 times in a combat round.
> > Sorry for the long explanation but......comments?
>
> Two things:
>
> 1) Your example is extreme. If the skill levels were closer the
result
> would be different.
>
> 2) Your forgetting Combat Pools. Will gets to use his combat pool
twice
> while Kelly gets to use it once.
>
Also, the very nature of melee combat is strike, counter, strike. In the
SRII book, it clearly states that the antagonist does not get the strike.
Both opponents dance around for a bit, looking for weak spots, hitting
and blocking, until one gets the window and does damage. A higher
skill in a fighting technique will almost always allow a slower
individual to do more damage. The reflexes just allow the other poor
fool to rush to his death. I realize that faster reflexes should allow
more speed. A homerule we use is to compare the reactions. The
higher reaction gets a bonus equal to 1/2 the difference of the
reactions. This evens the combat a little, and placates the
proponants of "faster, superior".



Many people run the shadows, praying that whatever gods they worship will smile upon them.
I waltz through shadows with my gods, and I lead!

-SHADOWDANCER-
Message no. 37
From: Shadowdancer <BRIDDLE@*****.VINU.EDU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 1994 16:46:44 EST
> And speaking of combat pools (pools in general, too)...
>
> We discovered that a refreshed pool each action requires an unholy
amount
> of dice rolling. Apache/Mad Cat has a combat pool of 17, and for
combat
> spells, my magic pool is 15. We both have 4d6 init. Mad Cat's
average
> init is 32 and mine is 27. Our personal addendum to the rules is to
> allow a refreshed pool every turn. Any comments?
>
> Mike aka Spellslinger


First, sorry for the strange letter. Accentally sent rether than deleted.

Second, I believe that combat pools refresh at turns rather than
actions. That's how I read it in the book. And that's how we have
been playing it. Otherwise, you don't get the way wiz sound of
someone sobbing as they realize that they just spend their entire CP
for that last shot, only to be staring down a vindicater next action.



Many people run the shadows, praying that whatever gods they worship will smile upon them.
I waltz through shadows with my gods, and I lead!

-SHADOWDANCER-
Message no. 38
From: Paolo Marcucci <marcucci@***.TS.ASTRO.IT>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions (fwd)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 08:50:17 MET
>
> > My ally helps as only Bjork can. And she can
> > make a mean lasagna.
> >
> > Mike aka Spellslinger
> >
> She may be able to make lasagna, but can she make a good burger? I mean,
> GOOD burger?
>
> Erik, a.k.a. the Whistler
>

Hey! One lasagna, two lasagne. Usually there are more than one in a
dish. Usually.

And, yes, can she make good burgers? I'm interested :)

Bye, Paolo
--
________________________________________________________________________
Paolo Marcucci marcucci@***.ts.astro.it
<a href="http://www.oat.ts.astro.it/marcucci/home.html">My Home
Page</a>
Message no. 39
From: Magister <MELLIOTT@*****.VINU.EDU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 09:50:41 EST
The Magister casts the "neverending thwap" spell on Wesley W.
Walker for such a childish, imbecilic posting.

Magister

"To the death!!! NO!!! To the pain."
Message no. 40
From: Damion Milliken <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 01:18:52 +1000
Shadowdancer writes:

> Second, I believe that combat pools refresh at turns rather than
> actions. That's how I read it in the book. And that's how we have
> been playing it. Otherwise, you don't get the way wiz sound of
> someone sobbing as they realize that they just spend their entire CP
> for that last shot, only to be staring down a vindicater next action.

Well, technically you are wrong (check out page 84 of SR II), but as a house
rule there is nothing wrong with it, it has a habit of making games rather
deadly though.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong e-mail: u9467882@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+(d) H s++:-- !g p? !au a18 w+ v(?) C+(++) US++ P? L !3 E?
N K- W+ M@ !V po@ Y(+) t+ !5 !j R+(++) G(+)('') !tv(--)@ b++ D+
B? e+ u@ h* f(+) !r n--(----) !y+
Message no. 41
From: Donald Walli <dwalli@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 16:37:01 +0100
>Shadowdancer writes:
>> Second, I believe that combat pools refresh at turns rather than
>> actions. That's how I read it in the book. And that's how we have
>> been playing it. Otherwise, you don't get the way wiz sound of
>> someone sobbing as they realize that they just spend their entire CP
>> for that last shot, only to be staring down a vindicater next action.
>
Damion Milliken writes:
>Well, technically you are wrong (check out page 84 of SR II), but as a house
>rule there is nothing wrong with it, it has a habit of making games rather
>deadly though.

I have to agree with Damion here: the SRII rules state that your CP refreshes
on each phase in which you get an action. [Initiative 12: on 12, you get your
CP; it doesn't refresh until 2, so if you burn it all on 12, and someone
stitches you on 7, you'll be wishing you were a troll]. And giving only one
CP per *turn* will get lots of people geeked real fast. Depends on how
much gaming time you want to waste watching your players make up new char-
acters, I guess. :/

On another topic: has anyone had much luck integrating vehicle movement
and character combat? We've been having lots of... discussions, shall
we say... about resolving these two (as vehicle movement happens in real
time, and the SR combat system is based on an arbitrary time scale,
depending on the reaction speeds of the combatants).

Don Walli
dwalli@***.edu
Message no. 42
From: Damion Milliken <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 01:57:22 +1000
Don writes:

> On another topic: has anyone had much luck integrating vehicle movement
> and character combat? We've been having lots of... discussions, shall
> we say... about resolving these two (as vehicle movement happens in real
> time, and the SR combat system is based on an arbitrary time scale,
> depending on the reaction speeds of the combatants).

Try dividing the total movement of the vehicle this turn (usually its
cruising unless otherwise specified) by the (number of phases in the turn)/10
and have the vehicle move 1/whatever of it's movement on the 1st, then the
11th and so on turns. An eg might be needed here. Say we have 27 phases (ie
Mr. Speedy Sammy got 27 inititive), then the vehicle move 1/3 of its
movement on phase 1, another third on phase 11 and it has moved it's full
movement on phase 21. It's not the most exact method, but it gets the
feeling across and doesn't require heaps of bookwork.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong e-mail: u9467882@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+(d) H s++:-- !g p? !au a18 w+ v(?) C+(++) US++ P? L !3 E?
N K- W+ M@ !V po@ Y(+) t+ !5 !j R+(++) G(+)('') !tv(--)@ b++ D+
B? e+ u@ h* f(+) !r n--(----) !y+
Message no. 43
From: Micah Levy <M.Levy@**.UCL.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 16:12:15 +0000
> On another topic: has anyone had much luck integrating vehicle movement
> and character combat? We've been having lots of... discussions, shall
> we say... about resolving these two (as vehicle movement happens in real
> time, and the SR combat system is based on an arbitrary time scale,
> depending on the reaction speeds of the combatants).
>
> Don Walli
> dwalli@***.edu

The way I do it in that sort of case is to treat it as Vehicle Combat for the
most part where those in the vehicles are restricted by the successes from the
Position Test. Anyone outside would be under no such restriction and could act
normally.

||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
||Micah Levy Department of Computer Science ||
|| University College London ||
||Web Page: http://www.cs.ucl.ac.uk/people/zcacma0.html ||
||Email: M.Levy@**.ucl.ac.uk Cestor@******.com ||
|| zcacma0@**.ucl.ac.uk Micah@******.com ||
|| GCS d--@ H s g+(-) p? au--(+)>++ a- w v++ C++++($) UV++(-) P- L- 3 E-||
|| N++ K W++ M+ V-- -po+ Y++ t+ 5-- jx R++ G+(----) tv b+++ D+ B--- e+ u- ||
|| h- f n+ y? ||
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Message no. 44
From: "Wesley W. Walker" <wwalker@****.UARK.EDU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 11:39:16 -0500
> The Magister casts the "neverending thwap" spell on Wesley W.
> Walker for such a childish, imbecilic posting.

One more time for the slow... IT WAS A JOKE!!!!!

CATCH UP!

Jeeze.

\||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||/
- Wes W. Walker (wwalker@****.uark.edu) * "Truth is well disguised lie and -
- CSCI Major and General Slave * never immediately apparent." -
- Artiste Wanna-be (accepting donations)* -Me -
/||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||\
Message no. 45
From: Shadowdancer <BRIDDLE@*****.VINU.EDU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 18:07:28 EST
> I have to agree with Damion here: the SRII rules state that your CP
refreshes
> on each phase in which you get an action. [Initiative 12: on 12, you
get your
> CP; it doesn't refresh until 2, so if you burn it all on 12, and
someone
> stitches you on 7, you'll be wishing you were a troll]. And giving
only one
> CP per *turn* will get lots of people geeked real fast. Depends on
how
> much gaming time you want to waste watching your players make
up new char-
> acters, I guess. :/
>

Sorry. I was refering to phases, not turns. Got a little cornfused. But
someone said actions, and actions go free,simple,complex, not
42,32,22,12,2. Sorry if I cornfused any of you.



Many people run the shadows, praying that whatever gods they worship will smile upon them.
I waltz through shadows with my gods, and I lead!

-SHADOWDANCER-
Message no. 46
From: Spellslinger <mruane@***.UUG.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions (fwd)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 17:04:44 -0700
>
> And, yes, can she make good burgers? I'm interested :)
>
> Bye, Paolo
>
Soy burgers got me down ever since I moved to Seattle. But Bjork can do
the most wonderful things with Soy Helper..

Mike
Message no. 47
From: Spellslinger <mruane@***.UUG.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 17:20:40 -0700
For all the pool refreshing debate:

We've been using it per turn simply because I don't have that many dice.
I have a LOT of dice, but if I GM, and the PCs walk into a room with 5
sec guys with CPs, that's a hideous amount of dice rolling. Also, at
this point in our adventuring carrers, we've determined that getting 10+
dice per phase is rediculous, especially for magic pool. I'd be putting
every bad guy down every time I sneezed.

Just my $.02

Mike
Message no. 48
From: Chad Hessoun <chessoun@*******.COLUMBUS.OH.US>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 23:23:42 -0400
On Mon, 24 Oct 1994, Donald Walli wrote:

> I have to agree with Damion here: the SRII rules state that your CP
> refreshes on each phase in which you get an action.
[handy example snipped]
> And giving only one CP per *turn* will get lots of people geeked real
> fast.

Well now, that depends largely on how stupid that players are that night...

We have always played that the pool refreshes with initiative, rather than
every phase. This would lead to bad things happenning for all involved if
we used the rules as written. My players face a decision every cycle
whether they are more interested in geeking the bad guys or saving their
hide; you can't do everything at once. Also, the more challenging the game
is, the more enjoyable and satisfying the outcome. You simply don't have
to work very hard at staying alive if you get your CP every phase. Mind
you, we run a large caliber campaign that's very violent and unrelenting.
Given these things, we've also adopted a house rule about healing that
allows multipe tries by the same mage on the same wounds (+2 TN every
successive attempt, and the drain gets hellacious). Generally, the two
rules balance themselves out. Gotta make those players WORK for that karma
and =Y=, ya' know?

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- C H A D H E S S O U N -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>> itinerant OTISian ArchBishop formerly of Kenyon and Greater Gambier
<<<
>>>>> Everything forbidden is optional... 9 out of 10 heretics agree!
<<<<<
Hail OTIS! Find out more: ighf@******.com or hessoun@******.edu Hail Spode!
Message no. 49
From: Damion Milliken <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 14:50:47 +1000
Shadowdancer writes:

> Sorry. I was refering to phases, not turns. Got a little cornfused. But
> someone said actions, and actions go free,simple,complex, not
> 42,32,22,12,2. Sorry if I cornfused any of you.

Hunh? People have an Action every 10 phases, it's just that this Action can
be any combination (within the rules) of simple, complex, and free.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong e-mail: u9467882@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+(d) H s++:-- !g p? !au a18 w+ v(?) C+(++) US++ P? L !3 E?
N K- W+ M@ !V po@ Y(+) t+ !5 !j R+(++) G(+)('') !tv(--)@ b++ D+
B? e+ u@ h* f(+) !r n--(----) !y+
Message no. 50
From: Damion Milliken <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 15:07:19 +1000
Chad writes:

> You simply don't have to work very hard at staying alive if you get your CP
> every phase.

The rest of what you say seems pretty good, but I wouldn't be so bold as to
say this. My players only ever use their CP for defence, and never attack
(only about three times as far as I can remember, and one was fatal to the
runner who did it), and things still get pretty hairy for them.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong e-mail: u9467882@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+(d) H s++:-- !g p? !au a18 w+ v(?) C+(++) US++ P? L !3 E?
N K- W+ M@ !V po@ Y(+) t+ !5 !j R+(++) G(+)('') !tv(--)@ b++ D+
B? e+ u@ h* f(+) !r n--(----) !y+
Message no. 51
From: "Jason Carter, Nightstalker" <CARTER@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 22:45:14 -0700
Spellslinger said:

>We've been using it per turn simply because I don't have that many dice.
>I have a LOT of dice, but if I GM, and the PCs walk into a room with 5
>sec guys with CPs, that's a hideous amount of dice rolling. Also, at
>this point in our adventuring carrers, we've determined that getting 10+
>dice per phase is rediculous, especially for magic pool. I'd be putting
>every bad guy down every time I sneezed.

Your problem is not the frequency at which your pools refresh. It's in the
size of your pools and in your opposition. Try using characters with combat
and magic pools ranging from 5 to 8 and tell me it's too easy to kill the
opposition and survive when you refresh every phase. And make sure that at
least a few members of the opposition are not just standard security guards.

*******************************************************************************
* See Ya in Shadows * * "Trust No One." *
* Jason J Carter * Carter@***.EDU * The late Deep Throat *
* The Nightstalker * * The X-Files *
*******************************************************************************
Message no. 52
From: Spellslinger <mruane@***.UUG.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 00:38:48 -0700
> Spellslinger said:
>
> >We've been using it per turn simply because I don't have that many dice.
> >I have a LOT of dice, but if I GM, and the PCs walk into a room with 5
> >sec guys with CPs, that's a hideous amount of dice rolling. Also, at
> >this point in our adventuring carrers, we've determined that getting 10+
> >dice per phase is rediculous, especially for magic pool. I'd be putting
> >every bad guy down every time I sneezed.
>
> Your problem is not the frequency at which your pools refresh. It's in the
> size of your pools and in your opposition. Try using characters with combat
> and magic pools ranging from 5 to 8 and tell me it's too easy to kill the
> opposition and survive when you refresh every phase. And make sure that at
> least a few members of the opposition are not just standard security guards.
>
That's just the problem. We've gotten to the point where our characters
do have big magic/combat/etc. pools. We're just not going to say, "Well,
off with your magic pool, then! It's too damn big!" So we moved it to
one turn has a complete pool, not phase. As long as it's universal,
we've had no problems. In fact, the biggest problem we had was with the
infamous PURPLE GUY!

That brings up a beef I've had. A while ago someone mentioned "When any
of the player's PCs get too buff, I geek them" or something to that
effect. Well, if you know your GM kills off your character when they get
house, then what's the point of playing? I like characters I've started
and I like seeing them progress from Mr. Nobody with a force 4 fire
missile to Spellslinger the Mage.

Besides, if runs start getting easy, begin recruiting for heavy action--
runs versus military targets or para-military operations.

Mike
Message no. 53
From: Matt Hufstetler <gt2778a@*****.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 10:11:14 -0400
> For all the pool refreshing debate:
>
> We've been using it per turn simply because I don't have that many dice.
> I have a LOT of dice, but if I GM, and the PCs walk into a room with 5
> sec guys with CPs, that's a hideous amount of dice rolling. Also, at
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Umm.... NPC's don't have a CP(O.K. I'm lying here. you can use a CP).
They have a Threat Rating. That saves GM's enough time so that they don't
have to fudge rolls to make up for lost time. If you want to keep up with
everyone's CP you must be masochistic.
Message no. 54
From: Matt Hufstetler <gt2778a@*****.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 10:26:51 -0400
> Given these things, we've also adopted a house rule about healing that
> allows multipe tries by the same mage on the same wounds (+2 TN every
> successive attempt, and the drain gets hellacious). Generally, the two

Hmm, but in SRII, isn't it that you get ONE try at healing the person?
And isn't it every two successes you get, ONE box is removed? Try healing
that SS who has a serious wound now.
Message no. 55
From: Spellslinger <mruane@***.UUG.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 08:26:03 -0700
On Tue, 25 Oct 1994, Matt Hufstetler wrote:

> > For all the pool refreshing debate:
> >
> > We've been using it per turn simply because I don't have that many dice.
> > I have a LOT of dice, but if I GM, and the PCs walk into a room with 5
> > sec guys with CPs, that's a hideous amount of dice rolling. Also, at
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Umm.... NPC's don't have a CP(O.K. I'm lying here. you can use a CP).
> They have a Threat Rating. That saves GM's enough time so that they don't
> have to fudge rolls to make up for lost time. If you want to keep up with
> everyone's CP you must be masochistic.
>
My general GM rule is: with few NPCs, add CP + Threat. With armies of
hosers in Med. Sec. Armor: No Cp and just threat. All of the opposing
shadowrunners have all their pools to make the "professional vs.
professional" battle equal out. The threat makes up for karma the
characters have.

Mike

"We're going into Salish lands? What kind of opposition are we running
into?"
"Here, I'll show you what kind of threat there is! Look on page 64!
See, that's the security! Nothing to worry about!"
-- famous last words
Message no. 56
From: Spellslinger <mruane@***.UUG.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 08:28:01 -0700
On Tue, 25 Oct 1994, Matt Hufstetler wrote:

> > Given these things, we've also adopted a house rule about healing that
> > allows multipe tries by the same mage on the same wounds (+2 TN every
> > successive attempt, and the drain gets hellacious). Generally, the two
>
> Hmm, but in SRII, isn't it that you get ONE try at healing the person?
> And isn't it every two successes you get, ONE box is removed? Try healing
> that SS who has a serious wound now.
>
No kidding. Mad Cat has an essence of .3. You should see him burn the
karma when the wounds accumulate. And people wonder why Spellslinger
hasn't adopted cyberware. Essence 6 is a wonderful thing.

Mike aka Spellslinger
Message no. 57
From: Shadowdancer <BRIDDLE@*****.VINU.EDU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 18:17:20 EST
.
> I have a LOT of dice, but if I GM, and the PCs walk into a room with 5
> sec guys with CPs, that's a hideous amount of dice rolling. Also, at


Are you playing 1st or 2nd ed.? Bad guys have professional and
threat ratings. Same function as CPs, but usually less dice and no
allocation problems. Por and threat ratings are added dice to ALL
success rolls: Pro to social and such, threat to combat.



Many people run the shadows, praying that whatever gods they worship will smile upon them.
I waltz through shadows with my gods, and I lead!

-SHADOWDANCER-
Message no. 58
From: Star <KADAMS@*****.VINU.EDU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 18:49:51 EST
Here, here!! But it's kinda bed when you have bad guys that the
less essence you have, the less frightened you will be.




A love that is never can always be obtained, a love that
is lost can never be regained. Think of the ones loved,
and smile.



-Star-
Message no. 59
From: Shadowdancer <BRIDDLE@*****.VINU.EDU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 19:49:20 EST
>
> Hunh? People have an Action every 10 phases, it's just that this
Action can
> be any combination (within the rules) of simple, complex, and free.
>
>

I just said that.



Many people run the shadows, praying that whatever gods they worship will smile upon them.
I waltz through shadows with my gods, and I lead!

-SHADOWDANCER-
Message no. 60
From: Chad Hessoun <chessoun@*******.COLUMBUS.OH.US>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 23:01:26 -0400
On Tue, 25 Oct 1994, Matt Hufstetler wrote:

> > Given these things, we've also adopted a house rule about healing that
> > allows multipe tries by the same mage on the same wounds (+2 TN every
> > successive attempt, and the drain gets hellacious). Generally, the two
>
> Hmm, but in SRII, isn't it that you get ONE try at healing the person?
> And isn't it every two successes you get, ONE box is removed? Try healing
> that SS who has a serious wound now.

Let me jsut take a minute of everyone's time to clarify myself. The 1:1
ration of successes to healed boxes still applies; yes, the rules say you
only get one chance, that's why this is a HOUSE rule; noone ever said
healing a sammie [essence .01] was _easy_, uh huh, nothing's ever easy.

Thank you, we now return you to your regularlyscheduled flame wars.
Y'ouch!

"The first secret of good religious management is getting other people to
do the creative work for you. The second is lying through your teeth."
- T. Howland
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>>> itinerant OTISian ArchBishop formerly of Kenyon and Greater Gambier
<<<
>>>>> Everything forbidden is optional... 9 out of 10 heretics agree!
<<<<<
Hail OTIS! Find out more: ighf@******.com or hessoun@******.edu Hail Spode!
Message no. 61
From: Damion Milliken <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 16:54:07 +1000
Mike writes:

> My general GM rule is: with few NPCs, add CP + Threat. With armies of
> hosers in Med. Sec. Armor: No Cp and just threat. All of the opposing
> shadowrunners have all their pools to make the "professional vs.
> professional" battle equal out. The threat makes up for karma the
> characters have.

So if the runners are fighting only a few opponents the bad guys get _both_
CP and Threat? That's a bit nasty isn't it, since if there are only a few
opponents, then the enemies are probably pretty tough as it is :-). As for
the enemy runners receiving CPs, I agree, but do they also get Threat?
That'd make 'em pretty tough I'd reckon.

A question too. When you wear heavy armours, you lose CP points, right?
Well, what about those goons with the heavy armour and Threat ratings? Do
they sacrifice any, or do they get by without the kind of negatives that the
runners would get?

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong e-mail: u9467882@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+(d) H s++:-- !g p? !au a18 w+ v(?) C+(++) US++ P? L !3 E?
N K- W+ M@ !V po@ Y(+) t+ !5 !j R+(++) G(+)('') !tv(--)@ b++ D+
B? e+ u@ h* f(+) !r n--(----) !y+
Message no. 62
From: Shadowdancer <BRIDDLE@*****.VINU.EDU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 20:20:48 EST
> A question too. When you wear heavy armours, you lose CP points,
right?
> Well, what about those goons with the heavy armour and Threat
ratings? Do
> they sacrifice any, or do they get by without the kind of negatives
that the
> runners would get?
>
>
I would believe so. Or you could increase the threat. A goon in heavy
milspec is pretty threating to me.



Many people run the shadows, praying that whatever gods they worship will smile upon them.
I waltz through shadows with my gods, and I lead!

-SHADOWDANCER-
Message no. 63
From: Spellslinger <mruane@***.UUG.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 20:27:26 -0700
On Wed, 26 Oct 1994, Damion Milliken wrote:

> So if the runners are fighting only a few opponents the bad guys get _both_
> CP and Threat? That's a bit nasty isn't it, since if there are only a few
> opponents, then the enemies are probably pretty tough as it is :-). As for
> the enemy runners receiving CPs, I agree, but do they also get Threat?
> That'd make 'em pretty tough I'd reckon.
>
> A question too. When you wear heavy armours, you lose CP points, right?
> Well, what about those goons with the heavy armour and Threat ratings? Do
> they sacrifice any, or do they get by without the kind of negatives that the
> runners would get?
>
> Damion Milliken University of Wollongong e-mail: u9467882@***.edu.au

The runners in current adventures are pretty house. I like to perceive
opponents as people with the will to survive equivalent to that of the
characters. Threat pool is the NPC's natural defence against Karma.

This may sound evil, but I give runners Cps and >karma<. This makes
enemy runners with karma a pain in the ass.

Oh, and yes, anyone in heavy armor gets the CP penalty. PCs and NPCs.
threat rating is a helper for NPCs versus stacked PCs. They still have a
bad habit of dying, however.

Mike
Message no. 64
From: Damion Milliken <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 19:49:50 +1000
Shadowdancer writes:

> I would believe so. Or you could increase the threat. A goon in heavy
> milspec is pretty threating to me.

Yes you could, but I don't think Threat Ratings are meant to be chosen based
on the power of the equipment carried by bad guys, it's to do with training
and dedication I thought.

Mike writes:

> > A question too. When you wear heavy armours, you lose CP points, right?
> > Well, what about those goons with the heavy armour and Threat ratings? Do
> > they sacrifice any, or do they get by without the kind of negatives that the
> > runners would get?
>
> This may sound evil, but I give runners Cps and >karma<. This makes
> enemy runners with karma a pain in the ass.

Threat Ratings too? Now that would be nasty!

> Oh, and yes, anyone in heavy armor gets the CP penalty. PCs and NPCs.
> threat rating is a helper for NPCs versus stacked PCs. They still have a
> bad habit of dying, however.

Well, in theory the NPCs do not have CPs, they get Threat Ratings, and I
was asking if their Threat Rating would be reduced or not. If it is, then
NPCs would be rather disadvantaged by this, sinse Threat Ratings rarely
equal CPs in size; their advantage of being used many times consecutively
would be overshadowed if they were to lose a point or two, but on the other
hadn, if they are not penalised, then they have a decided advantage over PCs
when using heavy armours.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong e-mail: u9467882@***.edu.au

(GEEK CODE 2.1) GE -d+(d) H s++:-- !g p? !au a18 w+ v(?) C+(++) US++ P? L !3 E?
N K- W+ M@ !V po@ Y(+) t+ !5 !j R+(++) G(+)('') !tv(--)@ b++ D+
B? e+ u@ h* f(+) !r n--(----) !y+
Message no. 65
From: Spellslinger <mruane@***.UUG.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: More dumb questions
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 18:46:20 -0700
Damion Milliken writes:

> Mike writes:
>
> Well, in theory the NPCs do not have CPs, they get Threat Ratings, and I
> was asking if their Threat Rating would be reduced or not. If it is, then
> NPCs would be rather disadvantaged by this, sinse Threat Ratings rarely
> equal CPs in size; their advantage of being used many times consecutively
> would be overshadowed if they were to lose a point or two, but on the other
> hadn, if they are not penalised, then they have a decided advantage over PCs
> when using heavy armours.
>
I have to apply the rules universaly for anyone in heavy armor. I can't
be too obvious in my plans to eradicate the party! MUHAHAHHAHA!, oh,
sorry... :-)

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