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Message no. 1
From: scotthiller2002@*****.com (Scott Hiller)
Subject: More Matrix Visualization Questions
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 22:00:39 -0700 (PDT)
Hey guys (appologies in advance for the long list,
etc.), I'm still having some difficulty picturing in
my mind what the icons would be for the various types
of IC, decker utilities, files, slave nodes, hosts,
LTGs, RTGs, and personas.

I know they can look like anything you want them to,
but what would be some ideas for sculpted systems? And
what about UMS default icons? What would they look
like and how would they interact?

Some ideas of sculpted systems I have would be maybe:
Lord of the Rings, 1920's Chicago Mafia, Medieval
European, Medieval Japanese, Ancient China, Biblical,
Prehistoric, Futuristic, a host could resemble a
library, a school, a museum, a transit system, an
airport ... but I can't think of much more ... but
WHAT about those different ideas could be made to
coincide with the abstract elements of "IC," or
"utilities"? For instance, what aspect of Lord of the
Rings would resemble a Sleaze utility or a Cellular
Link utility. And what about a Lord of the Rings-like
sculpted system would resemble a Construct IC program,
Party IC, or Scramble IC, for example?

Can you guys offer some ideas for wha the following
would look like for sculpted and UMS default icons?:
UTILITIES
Analyze
Browse
Commlink
Deception
Decrypt
Read/Write
Relocate
Scanner
Spoof
Sleaze
Track
Attack
Black Hammer (kind of obvious, I know, but what could
some variations look like?)
Killjoy
Slow
Armor (again, kind of obvious, I know, but what could
some variations look like?)
Cloak (again, kind of obvious, I know, but what could
some variations look like?)
Lock-On
Medic
Camo
Crash
Defuse
Doorstop
Encrypt
Evaluate
Mirrors
Purge
Redecorate
Sniffer
Snooper
Swerve
Triangulation
Validate
BattleTack Matrixlink
Cellular Link
Compressor
Guardian
Laser Link
Maser Link
Microwave Link
Radio Link
Remote Control
Satelite Link
Erosion (Blinder, Poison, Restrict, Reveal)
Hog
Steamroller
Restore
Shield

IC
Crippler (Acid, Binder, Jammer, Marker)
Killer
Scout
Trace
Probe
Scramble
Tar Baby
Blaster
Rippers (Acid-rip, Bind-rip, Jam-rip, Mark-rip)
Sparky
Tar Pit
Black IC (Non-lethal Cerebriopathic, Non-lethal
Psychotropic [Cyberphobia, Judas Syndrome, Frenzy,
Positive Conditioning], Lethal)
Party IC

OTHER
White IC Construct
Gray IC Construct
Black IC Construct
Party Cluster Option IC
Expert Offense Option IC
Shifting Option IC
Cascading Option IC
Armor Option IC
Shielding Option IC
Expert Defense Option IC
Trap Option IC
Data Bomb Trap IC
Pavlov Data Bomb Trap IC
Agent
Semi-Autonomous Knowbot
Teleporting SAN
Vanishing SAN
Bouncer Host
Security Deckers
Worm (Crashworm, Deathworm, Dataworm, Tapeworm,
Ringworm)
CHokepoint
Trap Door
Virtual Host

Thanks for your help! :-)

-Scott Hiller




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Message no. 2
From: marc.renouf@******.com (Renouf, Marc A)
Subject: More Matrix Visualization Questions
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:35:14 -0400
> -----Original Message-----
> From: scotthiller2002@*****.com [mailto:scotthiller2002@*****.com]
> Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2004 1:01 AM
>
> I know they can look like anything you want them to, but what
> would be some ideas for sculpted systems?

Sculpted systems can look like anything, that's the beauty of them.
Often, when my players encounter a sculpted system, it has some relation to
either the kind of business that the host handles or something of historical
significance to the host's operating company. In the old Virtual Realities
book, there was a great description in the fluff of a Renraku sculpted
system that looked like a village straight out of feudal Japan. Data
packets were serfs running about their daily chores.
I ran my deckers through a sculpted system for a
chemical/bioengineering company once in which the system looked like a lab.
Various research applications looked like what they were. If you wanted to
place an order for more chemicals, you simply took the appropriate chemical
out of the storage closet. If you wanted to begin production of a chemical,
you simply mixed it on your desk. The analog for setting up a delivery to a
customer was accomplished by dropping your beaker of finished chemicals into
the mail drop slot. Data was stored in huge filing cabinets. Data bombs
were beakers of caustic, noxious chemicals that would break when certain
cabinets were opened too hastily. The whole thing was very mundane, but
highly intuitive.
So it can be something equally mundane, or something totally off the
wall. Maybe it's a fun-house or an amusement park. Maybe it's a haunted
house, or the National Archives/Library of Congress. Maybe it's Osaka
castle. Maybe it's a series of darkened caverns. Maybe it's a series of
worlds linked by Stargates. Whatever. The list of ideas you had in your
post was great, and would make a great start.

> And what about UMS default icons? What would they look like and how would
they interact?

Virtual Realities had UMS default icons for a lot of different kinds of IC
or subsystem nodes, but the latter really aren't appropriate for the new
host paradigm. Typically, I run data structures as a series of levitating,
glowing boxes. I run slave nodes as a system of viewscreens, levers and
dials.

> ... but WHAT about those different ideas could be
> made to coincide with the abstract elements of "IC," or
> "utilities"? For instance, what aspect of Lord of the Rings
> would resemble a Sleaze utility or a Cellular Link utility.

Ah, here's your problem. You're getting confused between System
utilities and decker utilities. A decker's utilities will look like
whatever he or she wants them to look like. If the decker lets a sculpted
system set up an iconography for his utilities, they'll look like what the
system wants them to. But otherwise, their appearance will be whatever he
codes them as. Not all systems will have good analogs for al utilities, so
not all of a decker's utilities will be displayed as "fitting in" with the
system. But as potential answers to your example, a Sleaze utility might
appear as a color-shifting elven cloak, and a Cellular Link utility might
appear as the orb that Saruman was using to communicate with Sauron.

> And what about a Lord of the Rings-like sculpted system would
> resemble a Construct IC program, Party IC, or Scramble IC,
> for example?

Construct IC - the Witch King of Angmar on his winged Dragon.
Perhaps the Dragon is Blaster IC and the Witch King himself is IC of the
most lethally black variety. Party IC? What better than a horde of Uruk
Hai? Scramble IC? Scrolls that smoulder into ash.

> Can you guys offer some ideas for wha the following would
> look like for sculpted and UMS default icons?:
> UTILITIES
> Analyze

A magnifying glass

> Browse

A newspaper and a pair of reading glasses.

> Commlink

A Dick Tracy wrist communicator

> Deception

A pair of Groucho Marx glasses (complete with nose and outrageous
mustacio.

> Decrypt

The Rosetta Stone (perhaps in pocket, abridged form).

> Read/Write

Reading glasses. A stenographic machine. A stenographer. An
inkpot and quill

> Relocate

A forwarding address label posted in every grid or host you've
visited.

> Scanner

A tricorder. The motion scanner from Aliens ("There's movement all
over the place, man!!!")

> Spoof

A wrench. A maglock passkey. A mirror.

> Sleaze

A Cloak of invisibility. A Shirt with the words "You Can't See Me"
boldly emblazoned upon it. A ninja hood, the One Ring, etc. Spouting
cheesy pickup lines ("Hey baby, do you have any Irish in you? Want some?").

> Track

A blood hound. An Apache sidekick. Getting down on all fours and
sniffing the ground. Remember that not all programs have to be objects;
they can be actions as well.

> Attack

Any weapon will do. Things that make the weapon more damaging can
be represented as making it bigger, spikier, nastier, or dripping with
poison. Things that make it more accurate can be represented as scopes,
laser sights, or simply the act of aiming.

> IC
> Crippler (Acid, Binder, Jammer, Marker)
> Killer
> Scout
> Trace
> Probe
> Scramble
> Tar Baby
> Blaster
> Rippers (Acid-rip, Bind-rip, Jam-rip, Mark-rip) Sparky Tar
> Pit Black IC (Non-lethal Cerebriopathic, Non-lethal
> Psychotropic [Cyberphobia, Judas Syndrome, Frenzy, Positive
> Conditioning], Lethal) Party IC

IC can look like anything. It can look completely nasty or utterly
harmless. In my campaign, Probe IC usually manifests itself as a kindly,
helpful construct who simply appears and tries to "help" you do things
properly, and who looks at you in a disapproving manner if they discern that
you're doing something improper (i.e. something that increases your security
tally). Occasionally, it's just a gigantic disembodied eye that follows you
around. Very disconcerting. The beauty of the Matrix is that nothing has
to be what it appears. It's all an analogy, and a crafty programmer might
code Probe-6 into a nasty, scaly dragon with smoke curling from its
nostrils, breathing brimstone over your shoulder. You might be so convinced
that it's about to roast you that you jack-out. Alternately, a helpful
sprite might appear. You think that it's Probe IC there to determine if
you're allowed to have access to this area of the host and guide you back to
the proper areas if you don't. So you ignore it, "knowing" that it's
"harmless." Unbeknownst to you, it's psychotropic Black IC there to totally
screw with your brain.
The Matrix books tend to imply that the bigger something is, the
higher its Rating. I disagree. I will agree that higher Ratings correspond
to more sophisticated code, and that the more processing horsepower a system
has, the more detailed an icon it can render. But that's not to say that
that small, featureless white cube following you around *isn't* Blaster-8.
>From a coding standpoint, there's absolutely no reason to waste memory on
making an icon look impressive. But from a psychological perspective,
people are less likely to wander into restricted access parts of a host if
Nazgul (and the associated stench of death and decay) appear every time they
do.

Marc
Message no. 3
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: More Matrix Visualization Questions
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:01:39 +0200
According to Renouf, Marc A, on Monday 18 October 2004 21:35 the word on
the street was...

> I ran my deckers through a sculpted system for a
> chemical/bioengineering company once in which the system looked like a
> lab. Various research applications looked like what they were. [snip]

That seems to me to be exactly the point of the Matrix: make things
intuitive by having the VR be a close copy of the real thing. Naturally,
you can do all sorts of fun stuff with it if you don't care for that, but
the best way to make using a Matrix host easy is to make it work the way
people expect it to work. IMHO a virtual store would have shelves with the
products and a check-out counter where you go to pay by handing over a
credstick, instead of the product lists and fill-out forms they have
nowadays.

> > And what about UMS default icons? What would they look like and how
> > would they interact?
>
> Virtual Realities had UMS default icons for a lot of different kinds of
> IC or subsystem nodes, but the latter really aren't appropriate for the
> new host paradigm.

The best you could do would be to describe the shapes of the nodes inside
the host, giving the players an idea of what is in there without any kind
of details of what it actually does. "You see two datastores, a slave node
and a CPU" is a fairly good description of a UMS host, IMHO.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Ik ben het beu
-> Possibly NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Site: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
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Message no. 4
From: lists@*******.com (Wordman)
Subject: More Matrix Visualization Questions
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:13:14 -0400
On Oct 19, 2004, at 5:01 AM, Gurth wrote:

> IMHO a virtual store would have shelves with the
> products and a check-out counter where you go to pay by handing over a
> credstick, instead of the product lists and fill-out forms they have
> nowadays.

I'd think it would work more like the "Guns. Lots of guns" scene in the
Matrix. An interesting design question for a store would be: does the
user see other shoppers, or does it appear they have the entire store
solely at her beck and call? Some stores would go for the former for
the social aspect of it; their store becomes a place to see and be
seen. Others would go for the "personal service" angle.
Message no. 5
From: Caimbeul@*****.com (John Doe)
Subject: More Matrix Visualization Questions
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:26:09 -0400
Custom sculpted systems can be cool, but remember that Reality Filters
are WAYYY nice too... ^_^

If you read the Wolf and Raven novel, you know what I mean... ^_^

In the novel, there is one decker who got a reality filter that
convert everything in a baseball game... The decker being the pitcher
and the utilities being different ways of throwing balls, the analyse
utility appears to be the board with the stats of the hitter (IC) and
so on... that's really funny.


On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 22:00:39 -0700 (PDT), Scott Hiller
<scotthiller2002@*****.com> wrote:
> Hey guys (appologies in advance for the long list,
> etc.), I'm still having some difficulty picturing in
> my mind what the icons would be for the various types
> of IC, decker utilities, files, slave nodes, hosts,
> LTGs, RTGs, and personas.
>
> I know they can look like anything you want them to,
> but what would be some ideas for sculpted systems? And
> what about UMS default icons? What would they look
> like and how would they interact?
>
> Some ideas of sculpted systems I have would be maybe:
> Lord of the Rings, 1920's Chicago Mafia, Medieval
> European, Medieval Japanese, Ancient China, Biblical,
> Prehistoric, Futuristic, a host could resemble a
> library, a school, a museum, a transit system, an
> airport ... but I can't think of much more ... but
> WHAT about those different ideas could be made to
> coincide with the abstract elements of "IC," or
> "utilities"? For instance, what aspect of Lord of the
> Rings would resemble a Sleaze utility or a Cellular
> Link utility. And what about a Lord of the Rings-like
> sculpted system would resemble a Construct IC program,
> Party IC, or Scramble IC, for example?
>
> Can you guys offer some ideas for wha the following
> would look like for sculpted and UMS default icons?:
> UTILITIES
> Analyze
> Browse
> Commlink
> Deception
> Decrypt
> Read/Write
> Relocate
> Scanner
> Spoof
> Sleaze
> Track
> Attack
> Black Hammer (kind of obvious, I know, but what could
> some variations look like?)
> Killjoy
> Slow
> Armor (again, kind of obvious, I know, but what could
> some variations look like?)
> Cloak (again, kind of obvious, I know, but what could
> some variations look like?)
> Lock-On
> Medic
> Camo
> Crash
> Defuse
> Doorstop
> Encrypt
> Evaluate
> Mirrors
> Purge
> Redecorate
> Sniffer
> Snooper
> Swerve
> Triangulation
> Validate
> BattleTack Matrixlink
> Cellular Link
> Compressor
> Guardian
> Laser Link
> Maser Link
> Microwave Link
> Radio Link
> Remote Control
> Satelite Link
> Erosion (Blinder, Poison, Restrict, Reveal)
> Hog
> Steamroller
> Restore
> Shield
>
> IC
> Crippler (Acid, Binder, Jammer, Marker)
> Killer
> Scout
> Trace
> Probe
> Scramble
> Tar Baby
> Blaster
> Rippers (Acid-rip, Bind-rip, Jam-rip, Mark-rip)
> Sparky
> Tar Pit
> Black IC (Non-lethal Cerebriopathic, Non-lethal
> Psychotropic [Cyberphobia, Judas Syndrome, Frenzy,
> Positive Conditioning], Lethal)
> Party IC
>
> OTHER
> White IC Construct
> Gray IC Construct
> Black IC Construct
> Party Cluster Option IC
> Expert Offense Option IC
> Shifting Option IC
> Cascading Option IC
> Armor Option IC
> Shielding Option IC
> Expert Defense Option IC
> Trap Option IC
> Data Bomb Trap IC
> Pavlov Data Bomb Trap IC
> Agent
> Semi-Autonomous Knowbot
> Teleporting SAN
> Vanishing SAN
> Bouncer Host
> Security Deckers
> Worm (Crashworm, Deathworm, Dataworm, Tapeworm,
> Ringworm)
> CHokepoint
> Trap Door
> Virtual Host
>
> Thanks for your help! :-)
>
> -Scott Hiller
>
>
> __________________________________
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Message no. 6
From: jjvanp@*****.com (Jan Jaap van Poelgeest)
Subject: More Matrix Visualization Questions
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:26:49 -0700 (PDT)
--- Wordman <lists@*******.com> wrote:

>
> On Oct 19, 2004, at 5:01 AM, Gurth wrote:
>
> > IMHO a virtual store would have shelves with the
> > products and a check-out counter where you go to
> pay by handing over a
> > credstick, instead of the product lists and
> fill-out forms they have
> > nowadays.
>
> I'd think it would work more like the "Guns. Lots of
> guns" scene in the
> Matrix. An interesting design question for a store
> would be: does the
> user see other shoppers, or does it appear they have
> the entire store
> solely at her beck and call? Some stores would go
> for the former for
> the social aspect of it; their store becomes a place
> to see and be
> seen. Others would go for the "personal service"
> angle.

Perhaps allowing a user to choose whether they'd care
to see/interact with the social aspect of the store
would be an interesting option. Or finding other ways
to move data from the public to the private shopping
experience (showroom dolls dressed up by the
public/other customers being on display). Of course
this would provide the decker with the challenge of
finding his way into the "preferred customer" areas of
the store, where the most popular items and the best
offers are kept.

On a wholly different note, magical constructs might
enable real, physical stores to have a similar
structure set up (invisible customers, barriers that
can only be passed when holding a preferred customer
card...). Not very efficient, but perhaps the kind of
entertainment that the very rich/metahuman seek.


Cheers,

Jan Jaap



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Message no. 7
From: scotthiller2002@*****.com (Scott Hiller)
Subject: More Matrix Visualization Questions
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 07:23:00 -0700 (PDT)
On Mon, 18 Oct 2004, at 15:35:14 hours, according to
Marc, word on the street is ....

>Sculpted systems can look like anything, that's the
beauty of them.
>Often, when my players encounter a sculpted system,
it has some
>relation to either the kind of business that the host
handles or >something of historical significance to
the host's operating company.

Thanks Marc! :-) This is extremely helpful to me! :-)
Along the lines of Historical ....

One more question, I've been curious about another
visualization, that of the Biblical orientation. Now,
after reading Shadows of Europe, I have come to
understand that institutions like the Catholic Church,
the Protestant Church, the Jewish Religion, etc. are
still around. That considered, I'd assume that other
groups like the International Church of Christ and the
Traditional Church of Christ, the Mormon Church, the
Anglican Church, the Church of England, etc. are still
around, too.

I'd assume, that they'd use a more Biblical
iconography for their Matrix systems (I'd think they'd
have sculpted systems, even though that would const
more than UMS), but I'm stumped as to what that might
be ... one thought I had would be Party IC could take
the form of Roman Soldiers. But I'm hitting a brick
wall when considering different types of IC or
programs within their systems.

Also, I believe sculpted systems try to force any
icons used by the decker to conform to their imagery.
I remember reading something like that in one of the
books (maybe TNO, Celtic Double Cross, CR, or VR2?)
So, someone who's designed their icon to look like a
3D Happy Face might be surprized to find their icon
looks like a mercury-skinned version of the blind man
Jesus told to pick up his mat and walk? (Or would
there be a more appropriate annalogy?) What would
their utilities look like? Their icons?

What are your ideas regarding the Biblical imagery?
What about Psychotropic IC and any other kind of IC?

Also, there's the whole Normon Rockwell imagery. He's
big here in America among Antique collectors. Are you
familiar with him? If you're not, maybe there's a
gallery of his art on-line? Anyway, maybe some museums
or antique dealers in Shadowrun® who maintain Matrix
Hosts and have enough money to sculpt their systems to
the Normon Rockwell, Americana small-town feel whould
do exactly that?

Maybe the cop sitting on the stool wit hthe little boy
at the counter at the icecream parlor could be Probe
IC? Or, if he has a gun, then he could be a Construct?
What about the other forms of IC? What about
Psychotropic IC?

Thanks, Marc! :-)

-Scott

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Message no. 8
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: More Matrix Visualization Questions
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:13:41 +0200
According to Scott Hiller, on Thursday 21 October 2004 16:23 the word on
the street was...

> One more question, I've been curious about another
> visualization, that of the Biblical orientation. Now,
> after reading Shadows of Europe, I have come to
> understand that institutions like the Catholic Church,
> the Protestant Church, the Jewish Religion, etc. are
> still around.

Instead of wondering if they're still around, I'd ask myself why they
wouldn't be -- it's not as if, due to an event like the Awakening,
everyone would suddenly say "Hey, I know! Let's not believe in Jesus
anymore!" :) If anything, I suspect the Awakening would cause _more_
people to become religious than would otherwise be the case.

> That considered, I'd assume that other
> groups like the International Church of Christ and the
> Traditional Church of Christ, the Mormon Church, the
> Anglican Church, the Church of England, etc. are still
> around, too.

Again, why wouldn't they be? Small sects that are around today will
probably die out (but not necessarily), but anything as large as the
churches you mention will still be there in the 2060s.

> I'd assume, that they'd use a more Biblical
> iconography for their Matrix systems (I'd think they'd
> have sculpted systems, even though that would const
> more than UMS)

I can well see some protestant churches going for UMS because anything more
than that is opulent. But otherwise, yeah, I'd expect to see some kind of
religious imagery in hosts that belong to churches.

> but I'm stumped as to what that might
> be ... one thought I had would be Party IC could take
> the form of Roman Soldiers. But I'm hitting a brick
> wall when considering different types of IC or
> programs within their systems.

I can't see the logic of Roman soldiers; for a church, I'd probably make
the host look like, well, a church -- either the classic "church" type
(roman and/or gothic architecture) or the kind of look that modern
churches tend to have. I'd expect most of the IC to be white, much of
which you can represent quite nicely with features of the building (doors,
gates, locks, etc.) rather than as things that would move through the
host.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Ik ben het beu
-> Possibly NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Site: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 9
From: jcotton1@*********.net (jcotton1@*********.net)
Subject: More Matrix Visualization Questions
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 5:51:00 -0400
> From: Gurth <gurth@******.nl>
>
> According to Scott Hiller, on Thursday 21 October 2004 16:23 the word on
> the street was...
>
> > That considered, I'd assume that other
> > groups like the International Church of Christ and the
> > Traditional Church of Christ, the Mormon Church, the
> > Anglican Church, the Church of England, etc. are still
> > around, too.

Let's not forget L. Ron Hubbard's baby, Scientology. I'm sure they're still bilking
people in 2060. :)

> > but I'm stumped as to what that might
> > be ... one thought I had would be Party IC could take
> > the form of Roman Soldiers. But I'm hitting a brick
> > wall when considering different types of IC or
> > programs within their systems.

Let's not forget the friendly priest that is the probe IC trying to make sure you're not
doing anything you shouldn't be. Personally, rather than Roman soldiers, I'd go with
archangels wielding flaming swords... tar baby or tar pit IC could be demons dragging your
utility down to "hell"; although that might be a bit blasphemous. Then again,
you're the GM, if that's what you say it looks like, then that's what it looks like. :)

I suppose that Gurth could be correct in saying it was mostly white IC, but knowing how
jealously the Holy Cee guards its secrets and the amount of money they control, I'd say
the Catholic church, at least, would certainly have their share of Black IC for the
sinners that dare strike at the Mother Church. :) Pyschotropic IC would probably be a
big thing with them too... what better way to convert the sinners? And Scientologists are
even more secretive and paranoid... their site would probably be *much* more tilted
towards black and grey than white. Organizations like the Southern Baptists' Convention
probably have more white IC than anything else, as most of their info is public anyway.
As always, YMMV.

Joseph M. Cotton
"There are only two stories in all of literature -- a man goes on a journey, and a
stranger comes to town." Leo Tolstoy
Message no. 10
From: pentaj2@********.edu (John C. Penta)
Subject: More Matrix Visualization Questions
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:37:27 -0400
----- Original Message -----
From: Gurth <gurth@******.nl>
Date: Friday, October 22, 2004 5:13 am
Subject: Re: More Matrix Visualization Questions

> According to Scott Hiller, on Thursday 21 October 2004 16:23 the
> word on
> the street was...
>
> > One more question, I've been curious about another
> > visualization, that of the Biblical orientation. Now,
> > after reading Shadows of Europe, I have come to
> > understand that institutions like the Catholic Church,
> > the Protestant Church, the Jewish Religion, etc. are
> > still around.
>
> Instead of wondering if they're still around, I'd ask myself why
> they
> wouldn't be -- it's not as if, due to an event like the Awakening,
> everyone would suddenly say "Hey, I know! Let's not believe in
> Jesus
> anymore!" :) If anything, I suspect the Awakening would cause
> _more_
> people to become religious than would otherwise be the case.

Much agreement. That's why the rigidity of the secularism and such seen in SR makes no
sense to me. The reality is that in something like the SR world, religion (and most likely
the established religions first and foremost) would be something people run to and STAY
to.

The established religions we all know would most likely benefit the most; They have a
track record. For 99% of people, even the most secular, religious belief is only a
generation or two away, in their parents or grandparents. Memories are constructed of what
religion IS based on childhood memories for most people, and I doubt many people have
childhood memories of, say, the Church of the Whole Earth, Inc.

And I don't think it would end. The SR world has been through massive traumas lately,
almost continuously since 2011 and particularly since 2050. Religious belief would raise
hugely, and if continued long enough on a macro-scale would probably (re-)implant itself
into the culture.

> > That considered, I'd assume that other
> > groups like the International Church of Christ and the
> > Traditional Church of Christ, the Mormon Church, the
> > Anglican Church, the Church of England, etc. are still
> > around, too.
>
> Again, why wouldn't they be? Small sects that are around today
> will
> probably die out (but not necessarily), but anything as large as
> the
> churches you mention will still be there in the 2060s.

Depends on the group in question. The more-liberal ones may not survive. IRL, there's (in
the US anyway) a noted shift rightward in Gen Y, with an uptick for
"fundamentalist" and evangelical churches in particular. Meanwhile, mainline
Protestantism (if you set it, fairly reasonably, as the most liberal on the spectrum) is
in stark decline.

With the Awakening, with VITAS, with all the events of the SR timeline? The trend would be
continued and probably strengthened. It may moderate the most conservative elements, but
it will also pull liberal denominations to a more traditionalist and conservative mindset.
Which is why I twitched looking at SoNA; I don't see the social changes they describe as
even remotely likely, even with SR's insanity. People are going to run back to tradition,
as tradition has a "track record". You know what you're dealing with, and that's
comforting when the world is insane. Changing society like that, as society changes also
due to the addition of metahumanity and magic (among other things), would be very
unlikely.

> > I'd assume, that they'd use a more Biblical
> > iconography for their Matrix systems (I'd think they'd
> > have sculpted systems, even though that would const
> > more than UMS)
>
> I can well see some protestant churches going for UMS because
> anything more
> than that is opulent. But otherwise, yeah, I'd expect to see some
> kind of
> religious imagery in hosts that belong to churches.

Expect Catholic, Anglican, and similar denominations' hosts to use classic
"church" imagery. IC of the more lethal variety may be various sortf of flaming
angels.

"Low-church" denominations may use more Biblical imagery.

> > but I'm stumped as to what that might
> > be ... one thought I had would be Party IC could take
> > the form of Roman Soldiers. But I'm hitting a brick
> > wall when considering different types of IC or
> > programs within their systems.
>
> I can't see the logic of Roman soldiers; for a church, I'd
> probably make
> the host look like, well, a church -- either the classic "church"
> type
> (roman and/or gothic architecture) or the kind of look that modern
> churches tend to have. I'd expect most of the IC to be white, much
> of
> which you can represent quite nicely with features of the building
> (doors,
> gates, locks, etc.) rather than as things that would move through
> the
> host.

My thoughts:

Keep the architecture thematic.

Using a Catholic structural viewpoint just to stay simple:

For parish systems, it may just be a virtual representation of the parish church. IC would
be largely white, represented as architectural features. Usually Green, with perhaps extra
security for financial sections.

Diocesan systems could go all over the place architecturally, and MAY feature high-level
IC for systems such as those handling communications with Rome and the local nuncio,
priest personnel files, ecclesiastical tribunal stuff, and similar essential bits. I would
rate these generally as Orange-level.

A PLTG is certain between the Diocesan systems and the internal Vatican PLTG, as well as
the systems of the Episcopal Conferences. Security here might be very high. Also, PLTGs
connecting parishes and the diocesan chancery system are likely. The Church, however, does
the overwhelming majority of things solely on paper (in quadruplicate), so the traffic
level may be stunningly low compared to secular networks. This makes Deception and Sleaze
operations harder, as there's less to hide in.

We'll not speculate on the Vatican.

Religious orders will also have their own PLTGs, which largely reflect the imagery of the
order's mythos. (The Franciscans use very low-res imagery, but not UMS, contrary to
reports.) Security is moderate.
---

Outside of the Catholic church, that largely stands for the more organized denominations.

Independent or disorganized churches may have very weak security, indeed.
Message no. 11
From: failhelm@*****.com (failhelm@*****.com)
Subject: More Matrix Visualization Questions
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 10:03:39 -0700
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Scott Hiller
>Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 9:01 PM
>
>[snip]
>
>Some ideas of sculpted systems I have would be maybe:
>Lord of the Rings, 1920's Chicago Mafia, Medieval European,
>Medieval Japanese, Ancient China, Biblical, Prehistoric,
>Futuristic, a host could resemble a library, a school, a
>museum, a transit system, an airport ... but I can't think of
>much more ... but WHAT about those different ideas could be
>made to coincide with the abstract elements of "IC," or
>"utilities"? For instance, what aspect of Lord of the Rings
>would resemble a Sleaze utility or a Cellular Link utility.
>And what about a Lord of the Rings-like sculpted system would
>resemble a Construct IC program, Party IC, or Scramble IC, for example?

Symbology is key here, keeping in mind that the rating of the utility is/was
supposed to play a role in how the iconography worked. This only restricted
people from making an Attack 10 Deadly utility that looked like a hard
raison. Although no technical reason was given for this, I figured it was
for game control.

Run Google picture searches, combine this with a thesaurus and I think
you'll do okay, although expect some heavy research, as you'll have to learn
about each era/theme pretty well to grasp how a full host might be decked
out.

- Failhelm

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