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Message no. 1
From: The Powerhouse <P.C.Steele@*********.AC.UK>
Subject: More on Big Brother in Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 18:52:28 +0000
<Article included after my .sig>

In the same forum where I got the article on the FBI telephony proposal there
was also this article. It briefly describes a method of identification using
thermographic imaging that does not require the active participation of the
user. Now imagine corp X using this system in it's security, anyone that walks
past a thermo camera and doesn't match sets off an alarm. Careful positioning
of cameras could also keep track of employees on a corporate facility with all
data feeding directly to the computers.

The most worrying thought though is that the city authorities would install
such cameras in public places. Here in Newcastle we have CCTV cameras
monitoring certain public areas that are prone to drunken trouble on a Friday
and Saturday night. Now if these cameras were thermo <admittedly today's
technology will have to be improved to get the resolution and magnification
that will be necessary> they could in theory identify most of the crowd in a
matter of seconds leading to a big brother style of watching.

In the world of shadowrun this has probably already happened with Lonestar's
computers constantly monitoring the crowds looking for suspected and wanted
felons...

Did life just become a little bit more paranoid ?

Phill.
--
Phillip Steele - Email address P.C.Steele@***.ac.uk | Fighting against
Department Of Electrical & Electronic Engineering | Political Correctness !
University Of Newcastle Upon Tyne, England |
Land of the mad Geordies | The Powerhouse


< Included article follows >

From: Paul Robinson <PAUL@***.COM>
Subject: 'We {Will} Find you...'

In an article on the cover of the February 10, 1994 {Washington Technology}
magazine of the same name, talks about a specialized use of biometrical
information (specific details unique to a person like size, etc.) to identify
them.

The idea behind this is that in an airport, an infrared camera is mounted near
the arriving passengers section, taking pictures of every person who is
passing through the facility. This captures the 'aura' or underlying facial
vascular system (pattern of blood vessels and such). In 1/30 of one second,
it captures the data and forwards it via high-speed data lines to an FBI
database that has stored auras of the worlds most-wanted criminals and
terrorists, then matches generate an order to nab a suspect, supposedly
producing "a piece of evidence that is as rock-solid as any presented to a
court."

Currently, infrared cameras are being attached to desktop computers to create
digitized thermograms of people's faces in 1/30 of a second. The company that
is working on this technology, Betae Corp, an Alexandria, VA government
contractor, claims that the aura is unique for every single person. The
photos in the front of the article show two clearly different thermographic
images that are claimed to be from identical twins.

The facial print does not change over time (and would allegedly require very
deep plastic surgery to change it), retains the same basic patterns regardless
of the person's health, and can be captured without the person's
participation. The technology will have to show it is a better choice than
current biometric techniques such as retinagrams (eye photographs, voice
prints and the digital fingerprint.

A Publicity-Shy Reston, VA company called Mikos holds the patent for certain
technology uses of this concept. Dave Evans of Betac who has obtained certain
"non exclusive" rights in the technology claims that "thermograms are the
only
technology he has seen in his more than two decades of security work that meet
the five major criteria of an ideal identification system: They are unique for
every individual, including identical twins; they identify individuals without
their knowing participation; they perform IDs on the fly; they are
invulnerable to counterfeiting or disguises; they remain reliable no matter
the subject's health or age," the article said. Only retinal photos are
equivalent, but potential assassins aren't likely to cooperate in using them.

Right now it takes about 2-4K per thermograph, (it says '2-4K of computer
memory' but I suspect they mean disk space) and that's not really a problem
for a PC-Based system of 2000 or so people going to and from a building; it's
another magnitude of hardware to handle millions of aircraft travelers in
airports. Also, infrared cameras are not cheap, in the $35,000 to $70,000
range, which, for the moment is likely to keep small law enforcement
facilities from thermographing all persons arrested the way all persons
arrested are routinely fingerprinted. But we can expect the price to come
down in the future.

The writer apparently had to agree with Evans not to raise privacy and
security issues in the article, it says, since first they have to show the
technology works. But even it raised questions:

- The technology could be a powerful weapon in a "big brother" arsenal,
with cameras in front of many stores and street corners, scanning for
criminals or anyone on the government's watch list?
- Does the government have the right to randomly photograph people for
matching them against a criminal database?
- What guarantees do we have that thermographs are actually unique for
every person, or that the system is foolproof?
- What is the potential for blackmail, with thermographs to prove people
were in compromising places and positions?

There are also my own points.

- While this can be used to protect nuclear power plants against
infiltration by terrorists (as one example it gives), what is to stop it,
for example, to be used to find (and silence or eliminate) critics and
dissidents? I wouldn't give China 30 seconds before it would use
something like this to capture critics such as the victims of Tianamen
Square.

- Long history indicates that better technology is not used to improve
capture of criminals who violate the lives and property of other private
parties, it is used to go after whatever group the government opposes.
That's why people who defend themselves with guns against armed
criminals in places where gun controls are in effect, can expect to
be treated harsher than the criminal would have been. Existence of
criminals supports the need for more police and more police-state laws;
defending oneself against criminals shows the ineffectiveness of those
laws.

Paul Robinson - Paul@***.COM
Message no. 2
From: Micah Levy <M.Levy@**.UCL.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: More on Big Brother in Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 19:01:24 +0000
>
> <Article included after my .sig>
>
> In the same forum where I got the article on the FBI telephony proposal there
> was also this article. It briefly describes a method of identification using
> thermographic imaging that does not require the active participation of the
> user. Now imagine corp X using this system in it's security, anyone that
walks
> past a thermo camera and doesn't match sets off an alarm. Careful
positioning
> of cameras could also keep track of employees on a corporate facility with
all
> data feeding directly to the computers.
>
> The most worrying thought though is that the city authorities would install
> such cameras in public places.

Although a corp might use this in its own installations, how long do you think
they would last in any neighbourhood with a B rating or below, especially at
night. I don't think many street types would appreciate this.


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|| Micah Levy ||
|| Department of Computer Science ||
|| University College London ||
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|| GCS d--@ -p+ c++ l(!) u++ e+ m- s n+ h* f g+(-) w t+ r++ y? ||
|| ||
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Message no. 3
From: The Powerhouse <P.C.Steele@*********.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: More on Big Brother in Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 19:07:20 +0000
In reply to Micah Levy .....

> Although a corp might use this in its own installations, how long do you think
> they would last in any neighbourhood with a B rating or below, especially at
> night. I don't think many street types would appreciate this.

With a B neighbourhood there will still be public minded organisations that
are willing to allow the local council to install such devices on their
buildings for the purposes of watching the public. The cameras would almost
certainly be bullet proof as well requiring a more determined approach to
remove them. In areas less than rating B I agree, the chances of finding an
operational camera would be slim.

As for the A+ areas well you can count on it that they would have something to
protect the residents of such areas apart from anything else.

Phill.
--
Phillip Steele - Email address P.C.Steele@***.ac.uk | Fighting against
Department Of Electrical & Electronic Engineering | Political Correctness !
University Of Newcastle Upon Tyne, England |
Land of the mad Geordies | The Powerhouse
Message no. 4
From: Matt <mosbun@******.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: More on Big Brother in Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 15:32:08 -0500
>The writer apparently had to agree with Evans not to raise privacy and
>security issues in the article, it says, since first they have to show the
>technology works. But even it raised questions:

>- The technology could be a powerful weapon in a "big brother"
arsenal,
> with cameras in front of many stores and street corners, scanning for
> criminals or anyone on the government's watch list?

You don't honestly think they would be able to do that, do you? Right or
wrong, no one would stand for it.

>- Does the government have the right to randomly photograph people for
> matching them against a criminal database?

Criminals would certainly think not. After all, they might get caught. As
long as the system works, and all activities of non-criminals are kept
private, I don't mind.

>- What guarantees do we have that thermographs are actually unique for
> every person, or that the system is foolproof?

What gaurentees does the layman have that the same can be said for
fingerprints?

>- What is the potential for blackmail, with thermographs to prove people
> were in compromising places and positions?

Extremely high. Then again, what was the schmuck doing screwing up/around
anyway?

>There are also my own points.

>- While this can be used to protect nuclear power plants against
> infiltration by terrorists (as one example it gives), what is to stop it,
> for example, to be used to find (and silence or eliminate) critics and
> dissidents? I wouldn't give China 30 seconds before it would use
> something like this to capture critics such as the victims of Tianamen
> Square.

Are we debating its legality in the USA or in China? Anyone have any proof of
the same type of critic supression tactics used in China being used here?
If the government killed off critics like that, Rush Limbaugh would have been
long silenced... :)


>- Long history indicates that better technology is not used to improve
> capture of criminals who violate the lives and property of other private
> parties, it is used to go after whatever group the government opposes.
> That's why people who defend themselves with guns against armed
> criminals in places where gun controls are in effect, can expect to
> be treated harsher than the criminal would have been. Existence of
> criminals supports the need for more police and more police-state laws;
> defending oneself against criminals shows the ineffectiveness of those
> laws.


More police-state laws? Like being able to moniter and instantly ID people
in sensitive areas?

Matt
Message no. 5
From: Matt <mosbun@******.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: More on Big Brother in Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 15:35:41 -0500
>Although a corp might use this in its own installations, how long do you think
>they would last in any neighbourhood with a B rating or below, especially at
>night. I don't think many street types would appreciate this.



And in the areas where such security is especially needed, ie the Barrens,
can you imagine that support needed it even install them? The city would
have to call in the Metroplex Guard just to run cover and keep the denizens
from shooting out the scanners, and the techies along with them.

Matt
Message no. 6
From: The Powerhouse <P.C.Steele@*********.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: More on Big Brother in Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 22:22:03 +0000
In reply to Matt .....

>>- The technology could be a powerful weapon in a "big brother" arsenal,
>> with cameras in front of many stores and street corners, scanning for
>> criminals or anyone on the government's watch list?

> You don't honestly think they would be able to do that, do you? Right or
> wrong, no one would stand for it.

Ahh maybe not now, though I bet you could think of one or two bodies that
would like to see such a system implemented. But imagine in the future where
what the corps say goes, the goverments are nearly controlloed by the massive
megacorps and if they decide that good security is to start installing thermo-
imaging cameras around any area of monetry value then they'll do it.

As to the barrens, well while it might be nice for the companies to install
such equipment the cost will always outweigh the gain hence causuing corps
to not even bother with such placements.

>>- Does the government have the right to randomly photograph people for
>> matching them against a criminal database?

> Criminals would certainly think not. After all, they might get caught. As
> long as the system works, and all activities of non-criminals are kept
> private, I don't mind.

Well this comment isn't prehaps relevant to shadowrun but there have been
countless cases of misidentification where computers are involved, now just
imagine if nice friendly Joe Bloggs somehow has the same or close as damm it
match to that of a suspected Libyian terrorist and he went through airport
security.

This is an issue that we all may have to address in the future.

>>- What guarantees do we have that thermographs are actually unique for
>> every person, or that the system is foolproof?

> What gaurentees does the layman have that the same can be said for
> fingerprints?

Ha ! Exactly, who can really say that there is NO risk.

>>- What is the potential for blackmail, with thermographs to prove peopl
>> were in compromising places and positions?

> Extremely high. Then again, what was the schmuck doing screwing up/around
> anyway?

Does it matter ? In most free socities things such as having an affair only
matter if you're caught. Or maybe a prominent politician has been identified
as going to a gay cinema/bar etc ... It may be his right to be express his
sexuality as he feels but will everyone else see things the same way ?

>>There are also my own points.

>>- While this can be used to protect nuclear power plants against
>> infiltration by terrorists (as one example it gives), what is to stop
>> for example, to be used to find (and silence or eliminate) critics an
>> dissidents? I wouldn't give China 30 seconds before it would use
>> something like this to capture critics such as the victims of Tianame
>> Square.

> Are we debating its legality in the USA or in China? Anyone have any proof of
> the same type of critic supression tactics used in China being used here?
> If the government killed off critics like that, Rush Limbaugh would have been
> long silenced... :)

The original author does state at this point that you are reading his own
personal views, he was however originally debating it's use in America but
with more and more authoritairian laws appearing in all countries it is
prehaps a warning that is worthwhile to take.


>>- Long history indicates that better technology is not used to improve
>> capture of criminals who violate the lives and property of other priv
>> parties, it is used to go after whatever group the government opposes
>> That's why people who defend themselves with guns against armed
>> criminals in places where gun controls are in effect, can expect to
>> be treated harsher than the criminal would have been. Existence of
>> criminals supports the need for more police and more police-state law
>> defending oneself against criminals shows the ineffectiveness of thos
>> laws.

> More police-state laws? Like being able to moniter and instantly ID people
> in sensitive areas.

Sounds like it. Now think to yourself, if things are going this way today
what on earth will they be like in the world of shadowrun ?

Phill.
--
Phillip Steele - Email address P.C.Steele@***.ac.uk | Fighting against
Department Of Electrical & Electronic Engineering | Political Correctness !
University Of Newcastle Upon Tyne, England |
Land of the mad Geordies | The Powerhouse
Message no. 7
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: More on Big Brother in Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 19:41:08 -0500
At this point I heartilly recomend that you see ``Demolition Man'' if you
haven't already. Pay particular attention to the little boxes on every
wall.

``You have been found in violation of the Verbal Morality Code. You have
been fined one credit.''

If they're capable of listening to everything you say and tagging
profanity, what else are they recording, hmmm?

|||| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ||||
| Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> WWW Page: http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox |
| GAT d--@ -p+ c++ !l u+ e+(*) m-(+) s n---(+) h-- f !g(+) w+ t- r+ y+ |
| Character is what you are in the dark. --Lord John Whorfin |
|||| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ||||
Message no. 8
From: Neal A Porter <nap@*****.PHYSICS.SWIN.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: More on Big Brother in Shadowrun
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 11:10:40 +1000
From Phill's article

>
>The idea behind this is that in an airport, an infrared camera is mounted near
>the arriving passengers section, taking pictures of every person who is
>passing through the facility. This captures the 'aura' or underlying facial
>vascular system (pattern of blood vessels and such). In 1/30 of one second,
>it captures the data and forwards it via high-speed data lines to an FBI
>database that has stored auras of the worlds most-wanted criminals and
>terrorists, then matches generate an order to nab a suspect, supposedly
>producing "a piece of evidence that is as rock-solid as any presented to a
>court."

Well, rather than just getting paranoid, why not go out and but Avons
newest facial product, the thermal masking blusher. The idea that the
persons face thermal signature couldn't be masked through the use of
special makeup is rediculous. A decent reflective cover would defuse
the thermal signature enough to render this system useless. Not to mention
the possiable effect of 'cosmetic' surgery in SR that can change the colour,
and texture of your skin. And the minor surgery that can give you a dorsal
fin if you feel the need, all available at your local chop shop.

A'Deus.
Message no. 9
From: Neal A Porter <nap@*****.PHYSICS.SWIN.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: More on Big Brother in Shadowrun
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 11:13:28 +1000
>With a B neighbourhood there will still be public minded organisations that
>are willing to allow the local council to install such devices on their
>buildings for the purposes of watching the public. The cameras would almost
>certainly be bullet proof as well requiring a more determined approach to
>remove them. In areas less than rating B I agree, the chances of finding an
>operational camera would be slim.
>
>As for the A+ areas well you can count on it that they would have something to
>protect the residents of such areas apart from anything else.
>
>Phill.

Some how I cann't see all the people in an A+ security district wanting all
of there own movements tracked through such a system, just cause they're
rich don't mean they arn't as paranoid as the rest of the world. And in many
case even more so as they have more to lose.

A'Deus.
Message no. 10
From: Neal A Porter <nap@*****.PHYSICS.SWIN.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: More on Big Brother in Shadowrun
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 11:29:27 +1000
>Ahh maybe not now, though I bet you could think of one or two bodies that
>would like to see such a system implemented. But imagine in the future where
>what the corps say goes, the goverments are nearly controlloed by the massive
>megacorps and if they decide that good security is to start installing thermo-
>imaging cameras around any area of monetry value then they'll do it.

Why bother, the only corp that realy give a s..t about the public is Lone
Star (and they have to be payed to) , the rest may instal such a system to
protect their own corporate assets but its not likly that they would do it
out of the generosity of their hearts (Note it is yet to be proven that a
corporation has a heart).

SR is a dark future game, noone in power gives a damn about things or
people that dont effect them. There is no need to monitor the masses so
long as they dont do anything to effect those in power. How else can you
explain the lawlessness in the Barrens, its a simple case of the powers that
be not giveing a damn about that which doesn't effect them or their profits.

A'Deus.
Message no. 11
From: Dave Sherohman <esper@*****.IMA.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: More on Big Brother in Shadowrun
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 19:30:11 CST
From: Matt <mosbun%EXPERT.CC.PURDUE.EDU@***.spcs.umn.edu>
> >The writer apparently had to agree with Evans not to raise privacy and
> >security issues in the article, it says, since first they have to show
>the
> >technology works. But even it raised questions:
> >- The technology could be a powerful weapon in a "big brother"
arsenal,
> > with cameras in front of many stores and street corners, scanning for
> > criminals or anyone on the government's watch list?
>You don't honestly think they would be able to do that, do you? Right or
>wrong, no one would stand for it.

Don't be too sure about that. I doubt that it would be too hard to generate
sufficient anti-crime hysteria to push it through. Just look at how paranoid
people already are. Just tell them that, as law-abiding citizens they have
nothing to fear, but (literally) any known criminal (or suspect, but no need
to mention that part) who dares to show his face in public can be brought in
instantly... *shudder*

> >- Does the government have the right to randomly photograph people for
> > matching them against a criminal database?
>Criminals would certainly think not. After all, they might get caught.

So... if you don't want to be scanned for thermo-id, you must be afraid of
getting caught and, therefore, are a criminal, right? (Wrong, but that sort
of reasoning comes all too easily to some people... Witch hunt, anyone?)

>long as the system works, and all activities of non-criminals are kept
>private, I don't mind.

And how do you propose to insure that privacy? (I know! Put Clipper chips
in all the cameras to encode the data! :p )

> >- While this can be used to protect nuclear power plants against
> > infiltration by terrorists (as one example it gives), what is to stop
> it,
> > for example, to be used to find (and silence or eliminate) critics an
> > dissidents? I wouldn't give China 30 seconds before it would use
> > something like this to capture critics such as the victims of Tianame
> > Square.
>Are we debating its legality in the USA or in China? Anyone have any proof of
>the same type of critic supression tactics used in China being used here?
>If the government killed off critics like that, Rush Limbaugh would have been
>long silenced... :)

It's a lot closer in the US than a lot of people think (or maybe I'm just
paranoid)... However, while I can't provide proof of anything that extreme
going on today, does the name 'Senator Joe McCarthy' ring a bell? (As for Rush
Limbaugh, he's pretty safe just by virtue of having a very high profile... ;)

> > That's why people who defend themselves with guns against armed
> > criminals in places where gun controls are in effect, can expect to
> > be treated harsher than the criminal would have been. Existence of
> > criminals supports the need for more police and more police-state law
> > defending oneself against criminals shows the ineffectiveness of thos
> > laws.
> More police-state laws? Like being able to moniter and instantly ID people
>in sensitive areas?

Exactly.

esper@***.umn.edu
Message no. 12
From: Matt <mosbun@******.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: More on Big Brother in Shadowrun
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 00:28:35 -0500
>Don't be too sure about that. I doubt that it would be too hard to generate
>sufficient anti-crime hysteria to push it through. Just look at how paranoid
>people already are. Just tell them that, as law-abiding citizens they have
>nothing to fear, but (literally) any known criminal (or suspect, but no need
>to mention that part) who dares to show his face in public can be brought in
>instantly... *shudder*

The ACLU would kill it in a minute. Right or wrong, they would sue anyone
they could to remove them, and I have a feeling that they would win. All it
takes is one person to decide he/she doesn't like them, and to call in the
ACLU.



>So... if you don't want to be scanned for thermo-id, you must be afraid of
>getting caught and, therefore, are a criminal, right? (Wrong, but that sort
>of reasoning comes all too easily to some people... Witch hunt, anyone?)

Certainly not. I'm merely pointing out the obvious. Such a system would
be a serious deterrent to criminals. I just don't think such a system will
ever be installed.

>And how do you propose to insure that privacy? (I know! Put Clipper chips
>in all the cameras to encode the data! :p )

Touche



>It's a lot closer in the US than a lot of people think (or maybe I'm just
>paranoid)... However, while I can't provide proof of anything that extreme
>going on today, does the name 'Senator Joe McCarthy' ring a bell? (As for
Rush
>Limbaugh, he's pretty safe just by virtue of having a very high profile... ;)

Somehow I can't see another wave of McCarthyism going around again. Too many
journalists out there are waiting- hell, praying- that the government screws up
royally so they can write their articles, get their fame and sell their stories.

Matt
Message no. 13
From: Chris Siebenmann <cks@********.UTCS.TORONTO.EDU>
Subject: Re: More on Big Brother in Shadowrun
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 16:09:29 -0500
| Somehow I can't see another wave of McCarthyism going around again. [..]

The War on Drugs: McCarthyism for the nineties.

- cks
Message no. 14
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@*******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: More on Big Brother in Shadowrun
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 16:09:05 -0600
On Tue, 22 Mar 1994, Chris Siebenmann wrote:

> The War on Drugs: McCarthyism for the nineties.

The War on Information: McCarthyism for the 2000's


____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@*******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> Political Correctness is
\/ Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> P.C. for "Thought Police"
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 1.0.1) GAT d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++
n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)
Message no. 15
From: Twist <winterh@******.EMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: More on Big Brother in Shadowrun
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 11:29:55 EDT
> Doesn't 2XS (I believe) say something about large arc-lights being
> installed in the Barrens "a few years ago"
>

Arclight? They called in a B-52 strike on the Barrens?
That'd solve a few problems, eh? ;)


--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
winterh@******.emich.edu (Twist) "It was hot the night we burned karma"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 16
From: Quid Non <jdfalk@****.COM>
Subject: Re: More on Big Brother in Shadowrun
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 1994 14:39:39 -0500
On Tue, 22 Mar 1994, Chris Siebenmann wrote:

> | Somehow I can't see another wave of McCarthyism going around again. [..]
>
> The War on Drugs: McCarthyism for the nineties.
>
Drugs, nothin'! There's been war on that since before McCarthy.
I'll tell you what the 90's McCarthyism is: blaming televison for
all our problems. (Before anybody tries to disagree with me, go over and
look at your TV. Every single one of 'em has a switch to TURN IT OFF.
And if you can't find that switch, every single one of 'em also has a plug
which can be pulled out of the wall.)

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