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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Robert Fanning)
Subject: More rigger 3 nitpicking
Date: Sun Jul 8 12:05:03 2001
Pg 192: Semiballistics A/S-K G. Concorde and G. D. SV250 has 50,000kg fuel
by 0.01 km/kg = 500km travel
Pg 193: Suborbitals F-B China Clipper and Ilyushin IL-159 has 80,000kg fuel
by 0.01 km/kg = 800km travel

Seeing you can't get tickets for less than 4000km (I think), that means a
lot of mid air refueling stops. I would love to see that if they are
travelling at Mach 10 or so (unless I was watching from onboard).

Either that should be 0.1 km/kg, or that is the fuel they use to get out of
the atmosphere and coast in very low earth orbit, representing the
"manuevering fuel" - They have only 250 or 400km for the launch and re-entry
to move around.

The drop tanks used for the Suborbitals to get them to low earth orbit are
also not listed.

Also, I would like more details in the rules on orbital habits, especially
at the Lagrange points.

Do they use a linear accelerator to launch ores from lunar mining and
refined products from surface factories?

Is Mars Colonized? Certainly adding some of the nastier greenhouse gases
would get the temperature at the equator up to the 15 C range.

Use of orbital reflective mirrors should also help a Mars Colony. Using
them in reverse on Venus should get the temperature down, along with
introducing primordial volcanic bacteria in the atmosphere over the poles.
A few comets aimed to break up in decaying orbits should provide sufficient
water to provide shallow seas - water would be essential in cooling the
planet down.

I assume there is not the government funding for such large projects, but
even now, we could build long baseline orbital telescopes (using an array of
smaller telescopes) to see continent or smaller sized details on distant
star systems. Even if they don't have the money to build probes to get
there, we can certainly decide what star systems are suitable for future
colonization - the rights on those worlds would be worth trading.

Also, could Jim suits be adapted for vacuum conditions or for nuclear
reactors?

In anycase if I was a magician, even if I didn't have an ally spirit or
magical focuses to worry about on a suborbital or semi-ballistic, I would be
taking the High Speed Jets thank you very much.

If it takes 40 minutes to cross the Atlantic, but 4 hours each way in
customs, loading, unloading, catching a cab to and from the airport, etc; I
can easily afford to have a 2 hour flight instead.

The price of suborbitals and semiballistics (along with a lot of other
vehicles are out of the character's range), so I don't understand why they
have 2 different versions of each.

Now supposing I was to go down to a scuttled Russian nuclear submarine and
salvage the ICBMs, why couldn't I build my own sub-orbital as a player? It
would be a small cramped cabin, with no ammenities, but surely you can hold
it for 40 minutes? I don't need to carry 156 passengers, probably no more
than 5. I can understand it might be a one way trip, with refueling
problems (plus a heap of alarmed fighter jets converging on the location),
but it might be just the ticket for getting out of a country in a hurry (or
into it), especially out of the soviet union.
Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Damion Milliken)
Subject: More rigger 3 nitpicking
Date: Sun Jul 8 16:05:01 2001
Robert Fanning writes:

> Pg 192: Semiballistics A/S-K G. Concorde and G. D. SV250 has 50,000kg fuel
> by 0.01 km/kg = 500km travel
> Pg 193: Suborbitals F-B China Clipper and Ilyushin IL-159 has 80,000kg fuel
> by 0.01 km/kg = 800km travel
>
> Seeing you can't get tickets for less than 4000km (I think), that means a
> lot of mid air refueling stops. I would love to see that if they are
> travelling at Mach 10 or so (unless I was watching from onboard).
>
> Either that should be 0.1 km/kg, or that is the fuel they use to get out of
> the atmosphere and coast in very low earth orbit, representing the
> "manuevering fuel" - They have only 250 or 400km for the launch and
re-entry
> to move around.

Heh, yah, one of my players noticed that too :-). I think your "take off &
landing only" explanation is reasonable. OTOH, it hardly matters, as this
sort of thing is pretty much never ever going to come up in game play. I
actually seriosuly wonder what the folks at FASA were smoking when they put
70 million nuyen semiballistic aircraft and 9 billion nuyen aircraft
carriers in the book. Really, who cares? These things are just not going to
come up in shadowrun games, and to be honest, the ship rules are pretty darn
screwball anyway (they're more of a kludge than the vehicle rules are, and
SR's system doesn't handle the vehicle scale stuff real well as it is). The
only time runners are going to encounter these kinds of vehicles is if
they're riding on them for some other purpose, in which case the vehicles
are a story element or background setting, and don't really need statistics
anyhow.

> Also, I would like more details in the rules on orbital habits, especially
> at the Lagrange points.
>
> <Snip other space stuff>

Oh, for that you want Doc's Target: Space sourcebook ;-).

> Also, could Jim suits be adapted for vacuum conditions or for nuclear
> reactors?

Or how about just for dry land? Those things cart! Riggers snuggled away in
the middle of a JIM suit would make awesome combat goons! Who needs military
grade armour? JIM suits are much more useful!

> Now supposing I was to go down to a scuttled Russian nuclear submarine and
> salvage the ICBMs, why couldn't I build my own sub-orbital as a player? It
> would be a small cramped cabin, with no ammenities, but surely you can hold
> it for 40 minutes? I don't need to carry 156 passengers, probably no more
> than 5. I can understand it might be a one way trip, with refueling
> problems (plus a heap of alarmed fighter jets converging on the location),
> but it might be just the ticket for getting out of a country in a hurry (or
> into it), especially out of the soviet union.

Probably because you'd kill yourself. Semiballistic aircraft are designed by
teams of hundreds or thousands of engineers, over a period of likely 10 or
more years (if modern large intercontinental aircraft are anything to go
by). I seriously doubt that some rank amature with a ballistic missile could
make himself a viable passenger vehicle that wouldn't crush him on takeoff,
or splatter him on landing. ICBMs are designed for speed, not passenger
survivability. Besides, the heavy equipment and facilities that you'd need
to do the engineering work would be unavailable unless you broke into a
large corporate facility. And, although it would be a cool run to smuggle a
50 foot nuclear missile into Boeing's Tacoma production plant and somehow
stealthily take control of their assembly line for a couple of days, I just
couldn't see it happening ;-).

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
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Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (BD)
Subject: More rigger 3 nitpicking
Date: Thu Jul 19 17:20:01 2001
--- Damion Milliken <dam01@***.edu.au> wrote:
>> Also, I would like more details in the rules on orbital habits,
>> especially at the Lagrange points.
>>
> <Snip other space stuff>
>
> Oh, for that you want Doc's Target: Space sourcebook ;-).

Pardon moi? Doc' may be plenty full o' some ripe-smelling manure (and an
admittedly jocular fellow, ho ho), but that particular bushel was carted in
here by yours truly :) Give dubious credit where dubious credit is due ;)

====-Boondocker

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Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Rand Ratinac)
Subject: More rigger 3 nitpicking
Date: Thu Jul 19 22:35:01 2001
> > Oh, for that you want Doc's Target: Space
sourcebook ;-).
>
> Pardon moi? Doc' may be plenty full o' some
ripe-smelling manure (and an admittedly jocular
fellow, ho ho), but that particular bushel was carted
in here by yours truly :) Give dubious credit where
dubious credit is due ;)
> -Boondocker

Well, I thought about doing it, Boonie...but then I
decided why bother? It's not hurting me to be credited
with your work...

;)

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

If you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

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Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Damion Milliken)
Subject: More rigger 3 nitpicking
Date: Sun Jul 22 02:10:06 2001
BD writes:

> > Oh, for that you want Doc's Target: Space sourcebook ;-).
>
> Pardon moi? Doc' may be plenty full o' some ripe-smelling manure (and an
> admittedly jocular fellow, ho ho), but that particular bushel was carted in
> here by yours truly :) Give dubious credit where dubious credit is due ;)

I most humbly apologise and bow before your dubious might, oh Great Dubious
Credentiulous One!

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
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