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Message no. 1
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Movement Power & Falling
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:55:54 -0700 (MST)
Ok, I started this thread but I lost track of the physics a long time ago.

I've decided I'm going to allow Air Elementals to use their movement power
on a falling victim to increase his rate of fall just before he hits the
ground. Said victim will get to resist with an opposed test using his
willpower vs. the elemental's essence.

My question now is: if the elemental is succesful, how do I figure out the
damage sustained in simple game terms? If a guy jumps off a ten foot wall
and an air elemental increases his velocity after falling nine feet by a
factor of 6, how do I figure out the damage?

-David

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Buehrer
mailto:dbuehrer@****.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 2
From: "A Halliwell" <u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Movement Power & Falling
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 21:03:47 +0000 (GMT)
|
|Ok, I started this thread but I lost track of the physics a long time ago.
|
|I've decided I'm going to allow Air Elementals to use their movement power
|on a falling victim to increase his rate of fall just before he hits the
|ground. Said victim will get to resist with an opposed test using his
|willpower vs. the elemental's essence.
|
|My question now is: if the elemental is succesful, how do I figure out the
|damage sustained in simple game terms? If a guy jumps off a ten foot wall
|and an air elemental increases his velocity after falling nine feet by a
|factor of 6, how do I figure out the damage?

How about using the number of successes the elemental has left after the
test and adding that to the power of the damage of the impact?
Clean and simple.
(If you want to be sick, you could multiply the power with the succeses
instead.....)

--
______________________________________________________________________________
| |What to do if you find yourself stuck in a crackin |
|u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk |the ground beneath a giant bolder, which you can't |
| |move, with no hope of rescue. |
|Andrew Halliwell |Consider how lucky you are that life has been good |
|Principal in:- |to you so far... |
|Comp Sci & Visual Arts | -The BOOK, Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy. |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 3
From: MikeE@******.dragonsys.com
Subject: Movement Power & Falling -Reply
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:29:08 -0500
[ Concerning adding to the victims downward
velocity ]

While you are perfectly free to do this, and in
any way you wish [ No Flames here! :) ] what I
have deceided to do after this thread is to only
allow spirits to use Movement on willfull
movement (I think vehicles piloted by a person
are allowed too), and so falling damage would
not be effected. Affecting falling would fall under
Accident Power (IMHO), and would be a good
place to have the effects be harsher than normal.

Thats how I'd do it.

Double-Domed Mike
Message no. 4
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: Movement Power & Falling -Reply
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:49:20 -0700 (MST)
MikeE@******.dragonsys.com wrote:
|
|[ Concerning adding to the victims downward
|velocity ]
|
|While you are perfectly free to do this, and in
|any way you wish [ No Flames here! :) ] what I
|have deceided to do after this thread is to only
|allow spirits to use Movement on willfull
|movement (I think vehicles piloted by a person
|are allowed too), and so falling damage would
|not be effected. Affecting falling would fall under
|Accident Power (IMHO), and would be a good
|place to have the effects be harsher than normal.

Well, it does say that the power can be used on unwilling victims [No
Flames here either!]. But, like everyone else on this list you're free to
do whatever you want IMHO.

I will look at Accident though for ideas. Thanks.

-David

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Buehrer
mailto:dbuehrer@****.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 5
From: MikeE@******.dragonsys.com
Subject: Re: Movement Power & Falling -Reply -Reply
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 17:00:10 -0500
I said willful movement, not willing, meaning that
a person needs the intent of traveling
somewhere. Sorry for the confusion.

Double-Domed Mike
Message no. 6
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Movement Power & Falling -Reply -Reply
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:58:52 +0100
MikeE@******.dragonsys.com said on 30 Jan 96...

> I said willful movement, not willing, meaning that
> a person needs the intent of traveling
> somewhere. Sorry for the confusion.

That seems rather obvious to me. If you don't intend on going anywhere you
don't move --> speed is 0. Multiply zero by the Essence of the elemental
and you still have zero :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Don't call it a movement -- there's other ways of saying it.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

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Message no. 7
From: t_little@**********.utas.edu.au (Timothy Little)
Subject: Re: Movement Power & Falling
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 23:09:37 +1100
>Ok, I started this thread but I lost track of the physics a long time ago.
>
>I've decided I'm going to allow Air Elementals to use their movement power
>on a falling victim to increase his rate of fall just before he hits the
>ground. Said victim will get to resist with an opposed test using his
>willpower vs. the elemental's essence.
>
>My question now is: if the elemental is succesful, how do I figure out the
>damage sustained in simple game terms? If a guy jumps off a ten foot wall
>and an air elemental increases his velocity after falling nine feet by a
>factor of 6, how do I figure out the damage?

Well, gravitational energy is roughly linear with height. Kinetic energy is
proportional to the square of the speed. An air elemental will increase the
speed by a factor of its Force. So, the effect should be similar to
multiplying the falling distance by the square of the elemental's Force.
(Except terminal velocity is much higher)

In your example, the guy's speed is as though he jumped off a (9 feet * 6^2)
= 324 foot wall. Then he falls that last, negligible, foot.
** S P L A T **

Likewise, an air elemental ought to be able to reduce the effective falling
distance by a similar factor.


You might want to tone down the physics for a less lethal game.


--
Tim Little
Message no. 8
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: Movement Power & Falling -Reply -Reply
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 07:51:17 -0700 (MST)
Gurth wrote:
|
|MikeE@******.dragonsys.com said on 30 Jan 96...
|
|> I said willful movement, not willing, meaning that
|> a person needs the intent of traveling
|> somewhere. Sorry for the confusion.

Sorry for being confused :)

|That seems rather obvious to me. If you don't intend on going anywhere you
|don't move --> speed is 0. Multiply zero by the Essence of the elemental
|and you still have zero :)

Yeah, but that first step is going to be a doozy.

-David

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Buehrer
mailto:dbuehrer@****.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 9
From: gilean@****.muscanet.com (Kurt Montgomery)
Subject: Re: Movement Power & Falling -Reply -Reply
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:21:25 -0600
>MikeE@******.dragonsys.com said on 30 Jan 96...
>
>> I said willful movement, not willing, meaning that
>> a person needs the intent of traveling
>> somewhere. Sorry for the confusion.
>
>That seems rather obvious to me. If you don't intend on going anywhere you
>don't move --> speed is 0. Multiply zero by the Essence of the elemental
>and you still have zero :)
>
So does that mean If I'm falling unintentionally, I can use the air
elemental's power to make me hover in mid air?
------------------------------------------------
"Where a rat can go, two Kender will be." -Human Proverb
(Rat, Two, Kender, Will, and Human are all regestered
trademarks of T$R incorperated)

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Message no. 10
From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.com.au>
Subject: Re: Movement Power & Falling -Reply -Reply
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 22:28:51 +1100 (EST)
>So does that mean If I'm falling unintentionally, I can use the air
>elemental's power to make me hover in mid air?

No, because you're still not intending to move.


--
Robert Watkins robertdw@*******.com.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
Message no. 11
From: gilean@****.muscanet.com (Kurt Montgomery)
Subject: Re: Movement Power & Falling -Reply -Reply
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 19:07:21 -0600
>>So does that mean If I'm falling unintentionally, I can use the air
>>elemental's power to make me hover in mid air?
>
>No, because you're still not intending to move.
>
>
How do you figure? "If I'm falling UNINTENTIONALLY" ie, if I am knocked
off a ledge. Trust me, I would be very unwilling to move.
------------------------------------------------
"Where a rat can go, two Kender will be." -Human Proverb
(Rat, Two, Kender, Will, and Human are all regestered
trademarks of T$R incorperated)

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Message no. 12
From: Nick Scholtz <nscholtz@**********.edu>
Subject: Re: Movement Power & Falling -Reply -Reply
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 21:45:14 -0800 (PST)
On Thu, 1 Feb 1996, Kurt Montgomery wrote:

> >>So does that mean If I'm falling unintentionally, I can use the air
> >>elemental's power to make me hover in mid air?
> >
> >No, because you're still not intending to move.
> >
> >
> How do you figure? "If I'm falling UNINTENTIONALLY" ie, if I am knocked
> off a ledge. Trust me, I would be very unwilling to move.

Right, so the speed of your voluntary movement (0) is multiplied by 6 and
added to the speed of you involuntary movement (Vi+9.8t) to get your now
speed after air elemental = Vi+9.8t You still go SPLAT (sorry :-)


-- Nick Scholtz (who really didn't want to get
involved in this thread)
Message no. 13
From: "A Halliwell" <u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Movement Power & Falling -Reply -Reply
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:36:22 +0000 (GMT)
|
|>>So does that mean If I'm falling unintentionally, I can use the air
|>>elemental's power to make me hover in mid air?
|>
|>No, because you're still not intending to move.
|>
|>
|How do you figure? "If I'm falling UNINTENTIONALLY" ie, if I am knocked
|off a ledge. Trust me, I would be very unwilling to move.

I think what he was getting at was that the elemental can only increase or
decrease your intentional movement.
If you're putting effort into speeding up, then it might be able to slow you
down. Just a thought.
--
______________________________________________________________________________
| |What to do if you find yourself stuck in a crackin |
|u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk |the ground beneath a giant bolder, which you can't |
| |move, with no hope of rescue. |
|Andrew Halliwell |Consider how lucky you are that life has been good |
|Principal in:- |to you so far... |
|Comp Sci & Visual Arts | -The BOOK, Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy. |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 14
From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.com.au>
Subject: Re: Movement Power & Falling -Reply -Reply
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 02:16:37 +1100 (EST)
>>>So does that mean If I'm falling unintentionally, I can use the air
>>>elemental's power to make me hover in mid air?
>>
>>No, because you're still not intending to move.
>>
>How do you figure? "If I'm falling UNINTENTIONALLY" ie, if I am knocked
>off a ledge. Trust me, I would be very unwilling to move.

But the movement power would only speed up or slow down _intentional_
movement. If you don't intend to move, you wouldn't be affected one way
or the other.

Of course, you could get the elemental to grab you. It's intending to
move, so it can use the movement power on itself to slow it down if it
can't hold you up.


--
* *
/_\ "A friend is someone who likes the same TV programs you do" /_\
{~._.~} "Eternal nothingness is fine if you happen {~._.~}
( Y ) to be dressed for it." -- Woody Allen ( Y )
()~*~() Robert Watkins robertdw@*******.com.au ()~*~()
(_)-(_) (_)-(_)
Message no. 15
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Movement Power & Falling -Reply -Reply
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 10:46:45 +0100
Robert Watkins said on 3 Feb 96...

> >How do you figure? "If I'm falling UNINTENTIONALLY" ie, if I am
knocked
> >off a ledge. Trust me, I would be very unwilling to move.
>
> But the movement power would only speed up or slow down _intentional_
> movement. If you don't intend to move, you wouldn't be affected one way
> or the other.

Then we end up with a philosophical question: what if you, once you're
falling down, decide you *want* to fall down onto (into?) the pavement?
Now you're intending to move, toward the ground, so the elemental might
be able to use its Movement power on you. Or not? :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Sometimes it feels like )@&*()@&%#68%3*(48@&%
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

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Message no. 16
From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.com.au>
Subject: Re: Movement Power & Falling -Reply -Reply
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 21:15:18 +1100 (EST)
>Then we end up with a philosophical question: what if you, once you're
>falling down, decide you *want* to fall down onto (into?) the pavement?
>Now you're intending to move, toward the ground, so the elemental might
>be able to use its Movement power on you. Or not? :)

Yes. But you're still not moving under your own power, so it won't work.

Think of it this way: guy on horse. Horse is moving along quite happily,
the guy on it isn't. The logical target for the movement power is the
horse, not the rider, right?


--
_______________________________________________________________________
/ \
| "As soon as we started programming, we found to our surprise that it |
| wasn't as easy to get programs right as we had thought. Debugging |
| had to be discovered. I can remember the exact instant when I |
| realizedthat a large part of my life from then on was going to be |
| spent infinding mistakes in my own programs." -- Maurice Wilkes |
| Robert Watkins robertdw@*******.com.au |
\_______________________________________________________________________/
Message no. 17
From: gilean@****.muscanet.com (Kurt Montgomery)
Subject: Re: Movement Power & Falling -Reply -Reply
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 19:03:28 -0600
>>Then we end up with a philosophical question: what if you, once you're
>>falling down, decide you *want* to fall down onto (into?) the pavement?
>>Now you're intending to move, toward the ground, so the elemental might
>>be able to use its Movement power on you. Or not? :)
>
>Yes. But you're still not moving under your own power, so it won't work.
>
>Think of it this way: guy on horse. Horse is moving along quite happily,
>the guy on it isn't. The logical target for the movement power is the
>horse, not the rider, right?
Are you suggesting that the spirit target the earth? <G>
------------------------------------------------
"Where a rat can go, two Kender will be." -Human Proverb
(Rat, Two, Kender, Will, and Human are all regestered
trademarks of T$R incorperated)

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