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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Bryan Pow)
Subject: Mr Dark & Dragon
Date: Thu Apr 26 00:20:01 2001
What other information does the Dragon Heart Trilogy give about Mr Dark
over and above what is in Threats?
And whats the story about the "evil Dragon" in the same trilogy?

--
Think well the word upon your next breath
For say me Friend or say me Death
>Ode to an ally<
Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (BD)
Subject: Mr Dark & Dragon
Date: Thu Apr 26 00:30:01 2001
--- Bryan Pow <powbr323@*******.otago.ac.nz> wrote:
> What other information does the Dragon Heart Trilogy give about Mr Dark
> over and above what is in Threats?
> And whats the story about the "evil Dragon" in the same trilogy?

I'm not at all sure about the trilogy; I haven't read it. But I thought
I'd tell you that Darke showed up in Harlequin's Back as well (first,
actually). Just so you know.

Not that it gives you any clue as to his motivations, but hey, there it is.

====-Boondocker

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Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Shiro BsquLadat)
Subject: Mr Dark & Dragon
Date: Thu Apr 26 01:00:01 2001
--- Bryan Pow <powbr323@*******.otago.ac.nz> wrote:
> What other information does the Dragon Heart Trilogy
> give about Mr Dark
> over and above what is in Threats?

i've red the trilogy and there is no information about
Mr Dark in it.
Now for the evil dragon their is a section in the
Aztlan sourcebook that might interest you when they
talk about the stockholder of Aztechnology.


====-It didn't look so big in paper!!!!
-Ideas grow,Shiro.Sometimes bigger than life!

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Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Brother Justice)
Subject: Mr Dark & Dragon
Date: Thu Apr 26 08:50:01 2001
>From: Shiro BsquLadat <shirogr@*****.com>
>Reply-To: shadowrn@*********.com
>To: shadowrn@*********.com
>Subject: Re: Mr Dark & Dragon
>Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 22:04:25 -0700 (PDT)
>
>i've red the trilogy and there is no information about
>Mr Dark in it.
>Now for the evil dragon their is a section in the
>Aztlan sourcebook that might interest you when they
>talk about the stockholder of Aztechnology.
>
>
>====>-It didn't look so big in paper!!!!
>-Ideas grow,Shiro.Sometimes bigger than life!

Wait a second...Mr. Dark (aka Oscuro) is the main villian in the Dragonheart
trilogoy and somehow there is no information on him? Did you read a
different trilogy than I did?

The information in the DHT simply expands the information found in Threats
and Harlequin's Back. It goes into detail on the rituals that Dark performs
for the enemy, mentions some more about the gum toads and crawlers, blood
spirits, and does a better job of describing Dark overall in his role as a
directly confrontive villian rather than the manipulator behind the scenes
as he is described in Threats. Maybe if you provide a few more specific
questions, it'd be a bit easier to give you the information you're seeking.

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Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (abortion_engine)
Subject: Mr Dark & Dragon
Date: Thu Apr 26 13:05:01 2001
From: "Brother Justice" <brother_justice@*******.com>
> >From: Shiro BsquLadat <shirogr@*****.com>
> >i've red the trilogy and there is no information about
> >Mr Dark in it.
> >Now for the evil dragon their is a section in the
> >Aztlan sourcebook that might interest you when they
> >talk about the stockholder of Aztechnology.
> >
>
> Wait a second...Mr. Dark (aka Oscuro) is the main villian in the
Dragonheart
> trilogoy and somehow there is no information on him? Did you read a
> different trilogy than I did?
>
> The information in the DHT simply expands the information found in Threats
> and Harlequin's Back. It goes into detail on the rituals that Dark
performs
> for the enemy, mentions some more about the gum toads and crawlers, blood
> spirits, and does a better job of describing Dark overall in his role as a
> directly confrontive villian rather than the manipulator behind the scenes
> as he is described in Threats. Maybe if you provide a few more specific
> questions, it'd be a bit easier to give you the information you're
seeking.

And, just for the record, Oscuro's other name is /Darke,/ with an E, which
BJ knew perfectly well, but, unlike me, was too nice to mention. :)
Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Mr Dark & Dragon
Date: Thu Apr 26 14:05:10 2001
According to Shiro BsquLadat, on Thu, 26 Apr 2001 the word on the street was...

> > What other information does the Dragon Heart Trilogy
> > give about Mr Dark
> > over and above what is in Threats?
>
> i've red the trilogy and there is no information about
> Mr Dark in it.

That's because the Dragonheart Trilogy calls him Senor Oscuro -- which my
very limited knowledge of Spanish, just enough not to confuse "eagle" and
"Amstel" (sorry, that's a bit of an in-joke in my group) leads me to
believe translates as "Mr. Dark(e)." At any rate there's not all that much
information in it that's given outright, you're going to have to read
between the lines a bit for that.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If there are vegetarian hamburgers, why isn't there beef lettuce?
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L++ E W-(++) N o? K w+(--) O V?
PS+ PE(-)(+) Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++(-)>$ tv+ b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 7
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Brother Justice)
Subject: Mr Dark & Dragon
Date: Thu Apr 26 14:15:00 2001
>From: "abortion_engine" <abortion_engine@*******.com>
>Reply-To: shadowrn@*********.com
>To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
>Subject: Re: Mr Dark & Dragon
>Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 13:08:31 -0400
>
>And, just for the record, Oscuro's other name is /Darke,/ with an E, which
>BJ knew perfectly well, but, unlike me, was too nice to mention. :)

And for once, I'm actually on the level of the Engine. Originally I had it
posted that way, and for that exact reason you stated, I did actually change
it. It's scary how well you know me Engine. Very scary.

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Message no. 8
From: shadowrn@*********.com (abortion_engine)
Subject: Mr Dark & Dragon
Date: Thu Apr 26 14:15:05 2001
From: "Gurth" <Gurth@******.nl>
> According to Shiro BsquLadat, on Thu, 26 Apr 2001 the word on the street
was...
> > i've red the trilogy and there is no information about
> > Mr Dark in it.
>
> That's because the Dragonheart Trilogy calls him Senor Oscuro -- which my
> very limited knowledge of Spanish, just enough not to confuse "eagle" and
> "Amstel" (sorry, that's a bit of an in-joke in my group) leads me to
> believe translates as "Mr. Dark(e)." At any rate there's not all that much
> information in it that's given outright, you're going to have to read
> between the lines a bit for that.

Oscuro does, indeed, mean "dark." It's the same root as "obscured,"
which is
quite the point. If Darke were in Rome, I'm sure he'd be called "Inversus"
or shadow. The Enemy is the darkness, the hidden portion of existance, and
Darke, as their human champion, as it were, has taken it upon himself to
project that wherever possible.
Message no. 9
From: shadowrn@*********.com (abortion_engine)
Subject: Mr Dark & Dragon
Date: Thu Apr 26 15:15:01 2001
From: "Brother Justice" <brother_justice@*******.com>
> >From: "abortion_engine" <abortion_engine@*******.com>
> >And, just for the record, Oscuro's other name is /Darke,/ with an E,
which
> >BJ knew perfectly well, but, unlike me, was too nice to mention. :)
>
> And for once, I'm actually on the level of the Engine. Originally I had it
> posted that way, and for that exact reason you stated, I did actually
change
> it. It's scary how well you know me Engine. Very scary.

Just doing my job, fair sir. :)
Message no. 10
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gallandro Chicago)
Subject: Mr Dark & Dragon
Date: Thu Apr 26 15:50:01 2001
OK, not sure this will be of any help, but lets see.

In Earthdawn, there is a dragon called Vetrivan, who was corupted by Horoi,
or a horror. He is refered to as The Dispoiler of the land.

When I read the reports in Aztlan, I immediatlty thought of him. Of course I
could be terribly wrong, but teh similarities are there. Anyway, I am not
sure this is any help, but i do my best.

Gallandro
Is Half of nothing better or worse than all of nothing.

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Message no. 11
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Bryan Pow)
Subject: Mr Dark & Dragon
Date: Thu Apr 26 20:25:01 2001
Mr Dark
Firstly, is he still alive (or his replacement)?
Is he still active?
Does he still hold a position of power in Aztlan?
Why does he work for the horrors?
How did he find out about them?

The Evil Dragon
Who the hell is he?
Message no. 12
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Mister Incognito)
Subject: Mr Dark & Dragon
Date: Sat Apr 28 06:35:01 2001
Gallandro Chicago wrote:

>In Earthdawn, there is a dragon called Vetrivan, who was corupted by >
>Horoi, or a horror. He is refered to as The Dispoiler of the land. When I
>read the reports in Aztlan, I immediatlty thought of him. Of > course I
>could be terribly wrong, but teh similarities are there.
>
>Anyway, I am not sure this is any help, but i do my best.

Wasn't he killed off in the new LRGames ED book 'Barsaive at War'? Only just
got it so I can't remember for certain and I've lent it out. Was ED even
created by the time the Aztlan SB came out? I know it started after SR so
I'm not sure. The whole thing sounds like something thrown in for conspiracy
value with no real story behind it.

Anyway. The chief Horror in ED, Whats-his-name the Dragon Hunter, likes
going around hunting dragons, as the name suggests, cocooning them and
turning them into horror constructs. Hhmmm, horror controlled dragons.
Something new to throw against the PC's. And since normal dragons are awake
in the 2050's the horror tainted one should have woken up as well.
<insert_EvilGMGrin.jpg>

Bryan Pow wrote:

>Mr Darke Firstly, is he still alive (or his replacement)? Is he still
>active? Does he still hold a position of power in Aztlan? Why does he work
>for the horrors? How did he find out about them?
>
>The Evil Dragon Who the hell is he?

There's no 100% canon statement on whether he's alive or not. IIRC the SR
writing kinda implies that he dies but it doesn't actually say that he did
or anyone saw him die. One train of thought is that the new mystery resident
on ZurichOrbital that was from Aztechnology might be Darke. Who knows.

Not really. In the trilogy he screws up the crossing for the Horrors getting
a lot of evil powerful things *really* pissed at him. He loses Aztechnology
a highly expensive Cyberzombie, several high ranking mages and what seems
like whole companies of Jaguar Guards. Unless he wanted to die horribly, he
probably crawled into a dark hole and pulled it in after himself.

He doesn't seem to hold a position of power in Aztlan. In Corporate Download
after Darke screws up monumentally and dissapears it says that the Blood
Mage faction loses a lot of ground in the Aztechnology internal political
battles. Since they've lost their patron on the board of directors the blood
mages lose a lot of their influence. Our group plays them as having to creep
back into the shadows on the edges and operate more quietly now that they've
lost a lot of their political power.

Why'd he work for them? Probably because he was a sick bastard to begin
with. He saw them as being able to a) give him masses of power when they
arrived b) not eat or torture him in horrible ways. Since it mentions in a
couple of books that very low level horrors can come through in the late
2050's the larger horrors probably used them as messengers. That or the old
quasi-mystical standby that they came to him in his dreams, seeking out
susceptable and like-minded individuals to work with. Hah, sounds like a
dating form.

Evil SBH (Single Black Horror) seeks like-minded human for depraved fun in
the earth area. Must be influential, evil, with a strong immoral desire for
power, no conscience would be a bonus. I enjoy world domination, torture,
inflicting pain and muzak on people and other varoius fun activities. If
interested drop by, just passed the metaplane of fire, turn left at the
citadel and straight on over the chasm, you can't miss the place.
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Message no. 13
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Phil Smith)
Subject: Mr Dark & Dragon
Date: Sat Apr 28 07:45:01 2001
>From: "Mister Incognito" <misterincognito@*******.com>
>Wasn't he killed off in the new LRGames ED book 'Barsaive at War'? Only
>just
>got it so I can't remember for certain and I've lent it out.

Yep, saving Earthdawn, and the horror inside him wreaks a bit of havock on
the Threan army before leaving. However, because this is a LRGames turn of
events, it doesn't mean that he isn't still alive in Wizkids' Sixth World.

>Was ED even
>created by the time the Aztlan SB came out?

ED came into being in *checks* well my rulebook says '94 on the back. But
that doesn't really mean anything; I'm pretty sure ED started before that.
Either way, they were around the same time, and which ever came first the
plots can still be interlinked.

>I know it started after SR so
>I'm not sure. The whole thing sounds like something thrown in for
>conspiracy
>value with no real story behind it.

What makes me hesitant about linking Vasdenjas to Atzlan is that he is a
thinker, not the kind to do something about politics, however, a couple of
thousand years with a horror inside you can change your perspective on
things somewhat.

>Anyway. The chief Horror in ED, Whats-his-name the Dragon Hunter, likes
>going around hunting dragons, as the name suggests, cocooning them and
>turning them into horror constructs. Hhmmm, horror controlled dragons.
>Something new to throw against the PC's. And since normal dragons are awake
>in the 2050's the horror tainted one should have woken up as well.
><insert_EvilGMGrin.jpg>

Humm, Dragons wake up in stages; Loftwyr and Dunklezahn are small players
compared to those who are still to come when the mana levels get high
enough. And besides, I've found from experience that if you give your PCs a
dragon to fight then they will stop playing and start refusing to make
resistance tests in protest; its not as if they stand a chance of winning.

Phil

We are the unruly everyman.
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Message no. 14
From: shadowrn@*********.com (aaron chappell)
Subject: Mr Dark & Dragon
Date: Sat Apr 28 10:15:01 2001
The horrors name was verjigorn(m?)


Gwylly, Eleven Physical Adept and Roving
Troubleshooter(quit litterally)

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Message no. 15
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Simon and Fiona)
Subject: Mr Dark & Dragon
Date: Sat Apr 28 22:45:01 2001
-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Smith <phil_urbanhell@*******.com>
To: shadowrn@*********.com <shadowrn@*********.com>
Date: Saturday, April 28, 2001 9:50 PM
Subject: Re: Mr Dark & Dragon


>Humm, Dragons wake up in stages; Loftwyr and Dunklezahn are small players
>compared to those who are still to come when the mana levels get high
>enough.

Not necessarily. Maybe the strongest dragons are the ones that are able to
operate with the smallest trickle of mana, the weaker ones need to be gorged
with mana before they can exist in the mundane world. Or maybe it has
nothing to do with potency, Lofwyr and Dunklezahn just chose to wake up a
bit earlier, choosing to take their risks in a low-mana environment in order
to get a head start on their brethren. Or they could just be light sleepers.
Message no. 16
From: shadowrn@*********.com (abortion_engine)
Subject: Mr Dark & Dragon
Date: Sun Apr 29 00:05:00 2001
From: "Bryan Pow" <powbr323@*******.otago.ac.nz>
> Mr Dark
> Firstly, is he still alive (or his replacement)?

Debatable. Purposely left ambiguous.

> Is he still active?

No. His faction has fallen out-of-favour as the Horrors regroup after their
failure at the Bridge. Actually, the real reason is because FASA is getting
as far away from ED-tied plotlines as possible, and someone loony decided to
make Aztlan into the nice guys. [On the surface, at least. Who knows what
lurks beneath the facade?]

> Does he still hold a position of power in Aztlan?

Debatable. Purposely left ambiguous.

> Why does he work for the horrors?

Because he was offered limitless power in exchange, most likely, or whatever
it was that he wanted most from life. Or perhaps he was simply an angry man,
who felt a kinship to the Horrors, who wanted to give life a little of what
it took from him. The reasons are as varied as the possibilities of pain and
weakness; this is the nature of the Enemy.

> How did he find out about them?

Most likely, either through Astral travel to a Corrupted metaplane - "Oops.
This isn't where I meant to go...oh. Hi there. You look...evil." - or
through the Horrors contacting him, either in dreams - likely - or through
an agent, a minor Horror or a Horror construct.

> The Evil Dragon
> Who the hell is he?

Vestrivan is best read about here:
http://www.fasa.com/earthdawn/EDDragons.pdf

The section on Vestrivan begins on page 118 of the PDF file, which is page
116 of the book itself.
Message no. 17
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Mr Dark & Dragon
Date: Sun Apr 29 05:50:01 2001
According to abortion_engine, on Sun, 29 Apr 2001 the word on the street
was...

> No. His faction has fallen out-of-favour as the Horrors regroup after their
> failure at the Bridge. Actually, the real reason is because FASA is getting
> as far away from ED-tied plotlines as possible, and someone loony decided to
> make Aztlan into the nice guys. [On the surface, at least. Who knows what
> lurks beneath the facade?]

I somehow don't think we'll see Aztlan as the nice guys any time soon...
It could be a good plot twist to have them be the _good_ guys, even for a
while, but even without the Horrors I don't expect them to ever become the
_nice_ guys.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If there are vegetarian hamburgers, why isn't there beef lettuce?
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L++ E W-(++) N o? K w+(--) O V?
PS+ PE(-)(+) Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++(-)>$ tv+ b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 18
From: shadowrn@*********.com (abortion_engine)
Subject: Mr Dark & Dragon
Date: Sun Apr 29 16:05:06 2001
From: "Gurth" <Gurth@******.nl>
> According to abortion_engine, on Sun, 29 Apr 2001 the word on the street
was...
> > No. His faction has fallen out-of-favour as the Horrors regroup after
their
> > failure at the Bridge. Actually, the real reason is because FASA is
getting
> > as far away from ED-tied plotlines as possible, and someone loony
decided to
> > make Aztlan into the nice guys. [On the surface, at least. Who knows
what
> > lurks beneath the facade?]
>
> I somehow don't think we'll see Aztlan as the nice guys any time soon...
> It could be a good plot twist to have them be the _good_ guys, even for a
> while, but even without the Horrors I don't expect them to ever become the
> _nice_ guys.

Well, I'm thinking mostly about the /tone/ of Corporate Download, which just
felt...to nice, I suppose. Just a gut feeling.

On a completely unrelated note, does anyone else have trouble getting unread
marks to appear before Gurth's posts? I have to manually enter all of the
unread marks, and I don't know why; it works fine for every other person I
reply to. *shrug*
Message no. 19
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Mr Dark & Dragon
Date: Mon Apr 30 13:45:09 2001
According to abortion_engine, on Sun, 29 Apr 2001 the word on the street
was...

> > I somehow don't think we'll see Aztlan as the nice guys any time soon...
>
> Well, I'm thinking mostly about the /tone/ of Corporate Download, which just
> felt...to nice, I suppose. Just a gut feeling.

Perhaps it was written by someone with a bit of a pro-Aztechnology view?

> On a completely unrelated note, does anyone else have trouble getting unread
> marks to appear before Gurth's posts? I have to manually enter all of the
> unread marks, and I don't know why; it works fine for every other person I
> reply to. *shrug*

Mongoose used to have this problem with my posts. Back then I figured it
was something my mailer did to my posts that conflicted with his mailer;
however, these days I use a completely different mailer (on a completely
different OS) and now you're having the same trouble... I have no idea
what's causing it, but I'm pretty certain it's not something I can fix on
my end...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
If there are vegetarian hamburgers, why isn't there beef lettuce?
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L++ E W-(++) N o? K w+(--) O V?
PS+ PE(-)(+) Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++(-)>$ tv+ b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 20
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Sebastian Wiers)
Subject: Mr Dark & Dragon
Date: Mon Apr 30 19:20:01 2001
Mongoose used to have this problem with my posts. Back then I figured it
was something my mailer did to my posts that conflicted with his mailer;
however, these days I use a completely different mailer (on a completely
different OS) and now you're having the same trouble... I have no idea
what's causing it, but I'm pretty certain it's not something I can fix on
my end...

--
Gurth@******.nl

++++++++++++++++

As you can see, I still have that same problem, Gurth. I've come to accept
it as one of those "unanswerable ShadowRN questions". Grounding through
quickenings, pshysad / vs samurai, and why won't Gurths posts quote
propperly...

-Mongoose
Message no. 21
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Graht)
Subject: Mr Dark & Dragon
Date: Tue May 1 09:55:01 2001
At 06:42 PM 4/30/2001 -0500, Sebastian Wiers wrote:
>Mongoose used to have this problem with my posts. Back then I figured it
>was something my mailer did to my posts that conflicted with his mailer;
>however, these days I use a completely different mailer (on a completely
>different OS) and now you're having the same trouble... I have no idea
>what's causing it, but I'm pretty certain it's not something I can fix on
>my end...
>
>--
>Gurth@******.nl
>
>++++++++++++++++
>
>As you can see, I still have that same problem, Gurth. I've come to accept
>it as one of those "unanswerable ShadowRN questions". Grounding through
>quickenings, pshysad / vs samurai, and why won't Gurths posts quote
>propperly...
>
>-Mongoose

Oh, that's easy. His emailer is sending email from the Netherlands, and
your email thinks it's from Holland. Can you blame your poor emailer for
getting confused?

;)

To Life,
-Graht
ShadowRN Gridsec, Nice Guy Division
--

Further Reading

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