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Message no. 1
From: Mon goose <landsquid@*******.COM>
Subject: Multiple engines- what is the point?
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 15:19:06 PST
In all this discussion of multiple engines for SR vehicles, I see two
basic ideas:

1)put multiple engines in to have different modes available.

This is common in todays electric prototypes. It is easy to make a very
effecient gas engine if all you want it for is charging a set of
batteries. This is done toget around thelimitationsoftodaysbatteries,
mostly, but a few systems that provide extra power forhill climbing have
been tried.

Such adaptations are not really needed for SRvehicles- plenty of
improvements are available for SRelectric vehicles that thier
performance can easily reflect the inclusion of any such system. The GM
can easily interpolate any lacking mods, like if you want your electric
vehicle to use fuel cells and run on gas, a likely prospect.

Vehicles with true duel mode opperation, and thus two signiture ratings,
etc, would have cost and design problems similar to raiseng signature in
other ways. Again, the GM could make such things availble with any
stats he wants, or just use the given design ratings, but say it is from
a different effect than listed.

2) Multiple identical type power plants for extra power / speed.

This is moot. What is the difference between a car with two 4 cylinder
engines and one eight cylinder with double the displacement? The two
seperate engines will be heavier, with more total moving parts and less
efficiency.

Large aircraft, boats, and tracked vehicles often have more than one
power plant because it works sensibally with thier motive systems. You
can get options when designing such vehicles that raises speed and other
cahacteristics that having multiple power plants would give.

The rules don't well simulate such large vehicle loosing one power
plant, but then, vehicle damage in r2 has MUCH worse flaws than that.



Mongoose / Technological progress is like an ax in the hands
of a psychotic - Einstein

get sucked into -The Vortex- Chicago's shadowland BBS
http://www.concentric.net/~evamarie/srmain.htm


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Message no. 2
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Multiple engines- what is the point?
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 12:48:36 +0100
Mon goose said on 15:19/16 Nov 97...

> 1)put multiple engines in to have different modes available.
>
> This is common in todays electric prototypes. It is easy to make a very
> effecient gas engine if all you want it for is charging a set of
> batteries. This is done toget around thelimitationsoftodaysbatteries,
> mostly, but a few systems that provide extra power forhill climbing have
> been tried.

Two different engines have also been used in some armored vehicles, most
notably the Swedish Str-103 MBT which has a diesel engine for cruising and
conserving fuel, and a gas turbine for when extra power is needed. Of
course, that tank is unusual in more than one way :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
So what if we're making a scene now?
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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Message no. 3
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Multiple engines- what is the point?
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 17:46:02 -0500
In a message dated 97-11-16 18:27:16 EST, landsquid@*******.com writes:

> This is moot. What is the difference between a car with two 4 cylinder
> engines and one eight cylinder with double the displacement? The two
> seperate engines will be heavier, with more total moving parts and less
> efficiency.

I agree with you here squid-man, but except for the bike in Akira (which is
just cool to have), multiple power-plants in engines is kind of goofy. Oh
yeah, there is another alternative, the Bergen Land-Train.

> Large aircraft, boats, and tracked vehicles often have more than one
> power plant because it works sensibally with thier motive systems. You
> can get options when designing such vehicles that raises speed and other
> cahacteristics that having multiple power plants would give.

Somehow, I think you just keep missing the idea. We (Mike and I) are looking
for more official ideas or at least more ideas in general, on multiple power
plants because we are looking for something different than stock SR. Please
remember/pay attention to something. I have mentioned the "Winternight Wars"
more than once. That should be the clue.

> The rules don't well simulate such large vehicle loosing one power
> plant, but then, vehicle damage in r2 has MUCH worse flaws than that.

Yeah, but what we are looking for is the truly cool tech, the stuff that can
-only- exist in science fiction/science fantasy. Sure, we could just say "it
works this/that way" and be done with it. But our players want more than
that. Most of them have been getting B/R skills and Tech skills now that R2
is out. It's cool to watch them develop more and we want to help them enjoy
things as much as possible.

-K
Message no. 4
From: Mike Bobroff <AirWisp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Multiple engines- what is the point?
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 02:06:33 -0500
In a message dated 97-11-17 23:03:13 EST, Ereskanti@***.COM writes:

> Yeah, but what we are looking for is the truly cool tech, the stuff that
can
> -only- exist in science fiction/science fantasy. Sure, we could just say
"
> it
> works this/that way" and be done with it. But our players want more than
> that. Most of them have been getting B/R skills and Tech skills now that
R2
> is out. It's cool to watch them develop more and we want to help them
enjoy
> things as much as possible.
>
> -K
>

Yes, especially when Winternight has so many more toys and has so many nifty
ones at that (though don't tell the Imperial Japanese Navy that - they may
become jealous) ...

Mike
Message no. 5
From: Mon goose <landsquid@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Multiple engines- what is the point?
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 02:43:39 PST
>I agree with you here squid-man, but except for the bike in Akira
(which is
>just cool to have), multiple power-plants in engines is kind of goofy.
Oh
>yeah, there is another alternative, the Bergen Land-Train.
>

Well, It makes a LOT of sense that an electric vehicle might have drive
motors for each wheel, but my point was it make little differnece in
GAME terms. Just go with speed and acceleration improvements, and
assume the power plant(s) are as big and numerous as needed. Admittedly
less fun,though. :)

> Please remember/pay attention to something. I have mentioned the
>"Winternight Wars" more than once. That should be the clue.

Winternight, eh? I remember tham being much more into weapons
engenering than vehicles. Obviously they use vehicles, and a lot of the
new avanced rigger gear would provide an alternative to using "loki's
domain" while maintaining communication, and maybe a shared sense of
"religious" values. But I get the point.

>Yeah, but what we are looking for is the truly cool tech, the stuff
that can -only- exist in science fiction/science fantasy. Sure, we
could just say "it works this/that way" and be done with it. But our
players want more than that. Most of them have been getting B/R skills
and Tech skills now that R2 is out. It's cool to watch them develop
more and we want to help them enjoy things as much as possible.
>

Well, that's a noble goal. I would'nt worry to much about abiding by the
limits on R2's tables, then- they seem to be oriented towards folks kit
bashing stock parts and doing hop ups and factory projects, not folks
developing whole new technologies.

I know many view it as unusably complex, but GURPS vehicles has a lot to
recomend it. Conversion of stats could be tricky, but I would't sweat
it to much, as long as you came up with relative numbers that worked in
your game. Speed and acceleration atleast should not be to tricky, and
GURPS handles multiple power plants quite well. And you can get TRUELY
wacky if you want.


Mongoose / Technological progress is like an ax in the hands
of a psychotic - Einstein

get sucked into -The Vortex- Chicago's shadowland BBS
http://www.concentric.net/~evamarie/srmain.htm


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