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Message no. 1
From: "Thomas W. Craig" <Craigtw1@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Munchin Mages (was: About...
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 16:16:06 -0500
I have a note about Quickened spells. A spell cannot be grounded through a
quickening, since a quickened spell has no physical aspect; like foci and
spell locks. A quickened spell can be dispelled or attacked though, but the
target number for the attacker is the amount of karma spent to quicken that
spell. The minimum amount of karma spent to quicken the spell is the actual
force of the spell. The maximum karma spent to quicken a spell is twice the
force of the spell.
Tom Craig
Message no. 2
From: Craig S Dohmen <dohmen@*******.CSE.PSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Munchin Mages (was: About...
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 17:08:13 -0500
On Wed, 22 Feb 1995, Thomas W. Craig wrote:

> I have a note about Quickened spells. A spell cannot be grounded through a
> quickening, ...

*Checks his calendar* Yep, we're overdue. :)

--Craig
Message no. 3
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Munchin Mages (was: About...
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 20:54:59 -0500
>>>>> "Thomas" == Thomas W Craig <Craigtw1@***.COM> writes:

Thomas> I have a note about Quickened spells. A spell cannot be grounded
Thomas> through a quickening, since a quickened spell has no physical
Thomas> aspect; like foci and spell locks.

Wrong.

Here we go again :).

Grounding requires a channel or connection between astral space and the
physical world. This includes, but is not limited to, spell locks and foci,
and all dual-natured entities (including astrally percieving mages).

A quickening is a channel between astral space and the physical world. If
it weren't, then the quickened spell would dissipate as it would be cut off
from the source of power.

Therefore you can ground through a quickening.

The difference between grounding through a spell lock and a quickened spell
is that spell locks have a Force of 1 and quickened spells will usually
have a much higher Force.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> | Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain types
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox | of skin.
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! |
Message no. 4
From: Sean Sheridan <sean@**.WISC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Munchin Mages (was: About...
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 01:26:02 -0600
Just a quick comment about quickened spells Mr. Rat. A quickened spell
CANNOT have a spell grounded through it. A quickened spell is a spell that
self sustains. It has no material component that can ground through with
a spell. Foci have the foci, anchored spells have the object they are
anchored to, mages, percieving and projecting, have their bodies.
In other words, say you have a mage who's casting heal. He's sustaining the
spell over 10 rounds. You couldn't ground a spell through the sustained
Heal spell. Or an invisibility spell. You could fight the spell, destroy
or weaken it, but you couldn't Fireball the unfortunate mage and company
from astral space unless he was open to it.
Sean
Message no. 5
From: MR DELIVAN S HARDERS <YUBM21A@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Munchin Mages (was: About...
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 03:52:37 EST
Stainless Steel Rat wrote;
>A quickneing can be grounded through since it is a channel between astral
>space and the physical world. (This is highly summurized from his
>original statement).

If states in the Grimoire that anchorings and quickenings can only be
defeated or dispelled. The spell has no true physicality like a lock or
other focus, it is pure magical energy, so channeling wouldn't make sense
in that respect. I admit that the Grimoire is not clear on this however.

-Reaver
Message no. 6
From: pran r mukherjee <pran@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Munchin Mages (was: About...
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 04:16:10 -0400
On Thu, 23 Feb 1995, Sean Sheridan wrote:

> Just a quick comment about quickened spells Mr. Rat. A quickened spell
> CANNOT have a spell grounded through it. A quickened spell is a spell that
> self sustains. It has no material component that can ground through with
> a spell. Foci have the foci, anchored spells have the object they are
> anchored to, mages, percieving and projecting, have their bodies.
> In other words, say you have a mage who's casting heal. He's sustaining the
> spell over 10 rounds. You couldn't ground a spell through the sustained
> Heal spell. Or an invisibility spell. You could fight the spell, destroy
> or weaken it, but you couldn't Fireball the unfortunate mage and company
> from astral space unless he was open to it.
> Sean
>

One word to this: Bravo! (Ok, a couple more words...) It's all true.
Message no. 7
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Munchin Mages (was: About...
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 19:01:40 +0930
Once upon a time, MR DELIVAN S HARDERS wrote:
>
> If states in the Grimoire that anchorings and quickenings can only be
> defeated or dispelled. The spell has no true physicality like a lock or
> other focus, it is pure magical energy, so channeling wouldn't make sense
> in that respect. I admit that the Grimoire is not clear on this however.
>

It's been too long since I checked the Grimoire, but I thought you could
ground through _active_ anchorings. They have a physical presence (you have
to anchor to something), and an astral presence.

I agree you can't ground quickenings, but quickenings aren't too hard to
break.


--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
Message no. 8
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Munchin Mages (was: About...
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 10:44:02 +0100
>a quickened spell has no physical aspect; like foci and
>spell locks.

Spell locks do have a physical presence. Mundanes just ignore them, which is
why they can't touch with them -- because it's a spell lock, their mind just
blanks out that necklace.


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Oooh! Smells like a job for ... TOILETMAN!!
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y?
Message no. 9
From: John Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Munchin Mages (was: About...
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 12:17:18 +0100
> I have a note about Quickened spells. A spell cannot be grounded through a
> quickening, since a quickened spell has no physical aspect; like foci and
> spell locks. A quickened spell can be dispelled or attacked though, but the
> target number for the attacker is the amount of karma spent to quicken that
> spell. The minimum amount of karma spent to quicken the spell is the actual
> force of the spell. The maximum karma spent to quicken a spell is twice the
> force of the spell.

Please Tom dont start this again :) *evil laugh* we all knao that there
are those of us who believe in grounding through quickenings and those of
us who dont - its like the PhysAd question :) Well here goes nothing,
Your canot discount the danger a quickened spell poses by just saying that
it has no physical presence, it has a magical link to the mage - it is
linked to his aura, that is why it can boost the mages attributes. This
link makes it possible to ground spell through it - naturally you'd have
to destroy it first, just as one would ground through a focus.

--
"Believe in Angels." -- The Crow

GCS d>- H s+: !g p? !au a- w+ v-(?) C+++ UA++S++L+>++++ P-- (aren't we all?)
L+>+++ 3 E--- N+ K W(+)(---) M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5+ !j(-) R+++(--)
!G tv(++) b++ D+ B- e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(----) y?
Message no. 10
From: John Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Munchin Mages (was: About...
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 12:38:44 +0100
> In other words, say you have a mage who's casting heal. He's sustaining the
> spell over 10 rounds. You couldn't ground a spell through the sustained
> Heal spell. Or an invisibility spell. You could fight the spell, destroy
> or weaken it, but you couldn't Fireball the unfortunate mage and company
> from astral space unless he was open to it.
> Sean

IMHO :) You are wrong Sean, a sustained spell can be used as a grounding
gate. As for your example, this doesnt apply to heling spells because their
duration is permanent and not sustained - it just takes a bit longer to cast
them.

--
"Believe in Angels." -- The Crow

GCS d>- H s+: !g p? !au a- w+ v-(?) C+++ UA++S++L+>++++ P-- (aren't we all?)
L+>+++ 3 E--- N+ K W(+)(---) M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5+ !j(-) R+++(--)
!G tv(++) b++ D+ B- e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(----) y?
Message no. 11
From: John Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Munchin Mages (was: About...
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 12:42:50 +0100
> Stainless Steel Rat wrote;
> >A quickneing can be grounded through since it is a channel between astral
> >space and the physical world. (This is highly summurized from his
> >original statement).
>
> If states in the Grimoire that anchorings and quickenings can only be
> defeated or dispelled. The spell has no true physicality like a lock or
> other focus, it is pure magical energy, so channeling wouldn't make sense
> in that respect. I admit that the Grimoire is not clear on this however.
> -Reaver

Could you please give us a page/paragraph reference for that ?

--
"Believe in Angels." -- The Crow

GCS d>- H s+: !g p? !au a- w+ v-(?) C+++ UA++S++L+>++++ P-- (aren't we all?)
L+>+++ 3 E--- N+ K W(+)(---) M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5+ !j(-) R+++(--)
!G tv(++) b++ D+ B- e+ u++(-) h*(+) f+ r- n!(----) y?
Message no. 12
From: Craig S Dohmen <dohmen@*******.CSE.PSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Munchin Mages (was: About...
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 12:30:47 -0500
On Thu, 23 Feb 1995, Sean Sheridan wrote:

> Just a quick comment about quickened spells Mr. Rat. A quickened spell
> CANNOT have a spell grounded through it. A quickened spell is a spell that
> self sustains. It has no material component that can ground through with

Yes you can! I have this straight from the mouth of the Dark Lord and
one of the guys writing the Neo-Aranchists Guide to Magic.

--Craig, who only gets interested in the magic topics. :)
Message no. 13
From: Sean Sheridan <sean@**.WISC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Munchin Mages (was: About...
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 11:48:54 -0600
Just to be sure, are you saying you can send a physical spell through
the quickened spell or just break it. And if so, where does that fit
in with the rest of the rules on magic...
I've always prided myself on being the only one at the table who's even
managed to read all the way through the magical rules sections, let alone
get a full grasp on it all. OH MY WOUNDED PRIDE!!
Anyways, if the Dark Lord said it, its gotta be true... but I think I need
some heavy explanations to back up the understanding of it. I don't believe
in just saying Game Balance and waving your hands...
Sean
Message no. 14
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Munchin Mages (was: About...
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 13:50:31 -0500
>>>>> "Sean" == Sean Sheridan <sean@**.WISC.EDU> writes:

Sean> Just to be sure, are you saying you can send a physical spell through
Sean> the quickened spell or just break it.

Almost. When you attack an active spell (I'm ignoring other dual-natured
entities at the moment) with another spell, it's a resisted test, Force vs.
Force. If the attacking spell defeats the active spell, the remaining force
grounds out into the physical world iff the active spell has a physical
manifestation. If there's no physical manifestation, the remaing force
dissipates. Note that ``physical manifestation'' means a manifestation on
the physical world. It does NOT mean a physical object. A manifested spirit
is not a physical object, and neither is an active spell lock, else
firearms would have normal effects and non-mages could pick up active spell
locks.

Sean> And if so, where does that fit in with the rest of the rules on
Sean> magic...

With everything else, in the laws of sympathy.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> | Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain types
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox | of skin.
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! |
Message no. 15
From: Luc <rjwate01@********.SPD.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Munchin Mages (was: About...
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 08:09:02 EST
>
> Yes you can! I have this straight from the mouth of the Dark Lord and
> one of the guys writing the Neo-Aranchists Guide to Magic.
>
> --Craig, who only gets interested in the magic topics. :)
>
that is when NAGM comes out but this considers the rules in Grimoire II

I say that you can't ground through quickening because you are creating a
"permanent" circuit of karma in astral space, basically creating a spell
spirit, and because it isn't linked to a physical item you can't ground a
spell from astral space to "real space".

Luc
Message no. 16
From: Luc <rjwate01@********.SPD.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Munchin Mages (was: About...
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 08:52:30 EST
> Anyways, if the Dark Lord said it, its gotta be true... but I think I need
> some heavy explanations to back up the understanding of it. I don't believe
> in just saying Game Balance and waving your hands...
> Sean
>
I actually think it would unbalance the game towards unintiated mages. Foci
can be taken off and put away when there is a chance of astral mages who would
ground out spells on it (and foci always astrally active see SRII pp. 139
"Attacking Through a Focus"). The quickening ability can only be turned off
by attacking it as if it was a spirit of rating equal to karma invested (and
yes even if you casted it yourself!). Also quickened spells can be killed
while foci can't be "killed" from astral space.

Luc
Message no. 17
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Munchin Mages (was: About...
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 1995 00:32:17 +0930
Once upon a time, Luc wrote:
>
> I actually think it would unbalance the game towards unintiated mages. Foci
> can be taken off and put away when there is a chance of astral mages who would
> ground out spells on it (and foci always astrally active see SRII pp. 139
> "Attacking Through a Focus"). The quickening ability can only be turned
off
> by attacking it as if it was a spirit of rating equal to karma invested (and
> yes even if you casted it yourself!). Also quickened spells can be killed
> while foci can't be "killed" from astral space.
>

Not true... There's the metamagic ability of dispelling (to kill spells
without fighting them), and you can attack foci, thus destroying them,
instead of grounding through them (which also destroys them).

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
Message no. 18
From: Luc <rjwate01@********.SPD.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Munchin Mages (was: About...
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 10:31:47 EST
>
> Once upon a time, Luc wrote:
> >
> > I actually think it would unbalance the game towards unintiated mages. Foci
> > can be taken off and put away when there is a chance of astral mages who would
> > ground out spells on it (and foci always astrally active see SRII pp. 139
> > "Attacking Through a Focus"). The quickening ability can only be
turned off
> > by attacking it as if it was a spirit of rating equal to karma invested (and
> > yes even if you casted it yourself!). Also quickened spells can be killed
> > while foci can't be "killed" from astral space.
> >
>
> Not true... There's the metamagic ability of dispelling (to kill spells
> without fighting them), and you can attack foci, thus destroying them,
> instead of grounding through them (which also destroys them).
>
but only if you are of a higher initiate grade than the (either force of spell
or number of karma put in it)...

Luc

ps i don't think dispelling works on foci cause they aren't spells (don't have
grimoire ii handy)
Message no. 19
From: Craig S Dohmen <dohmen@*******.CSE.PSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Munchin Mages (was: About...
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 12:49:12 -0500
On Fri, 24 Feb 1995, Luc wrote:

> I say that you can't ground through quickening because you are creating a
> "permanent" circuit of karma in astral space, basically creating a spell
> spirit, and because it isn't linked to a physical item you can't ground a
> spell from astral space to "real space".

Ah, but it *is* linked. After all, you have to quicken the spell _on_
something. As someone else pointed out, this object can serve as the
material link. The way I picture it, a spell (or focus) creates a sort
of hole from astral space to the material plane. When a spell grounds,
it travels through the hole until it hits something at the other end.

--Craig

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