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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Tim Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Munchkin games..was RE: Physads and something or other..
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 18:21:26 -0800
On Sat, 4 Jan 1997, Spike wrote:

>
> Did you find RIFTS to be one of the most munchkinous?
> Some of the later sourcebooks for that game are totally over the top....
> --

But you see, there's a difference, in RIFTS you're SUPPOSED to be
munchkinous! :)

It's a rule somewhere..:)

(Although one of my favorite characters is fairly low powered, and HIS
most prized possession is his Holo-Camera and the disks of pictures from
all their adventures)

~Tim
Message no. 2
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Munchkin games..was RE: Physads and something or other..
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 21:59:15 -0500
At 06:21 PM 1/4/97 -0800, you wrote:
>On Sat, 4 Jan 1997, Spike wrote:
>
>>
>> Did you find RIFTS to be one of the most munchkinous?
>> Some of the later sourcebooks for that game are totally over the top....
>> --
>
>But you see, there's a difference, in RIFTS you're SUPPOSED to be
>munchkinous! :)
>
>It's a rule somewhere..:)
>
<grin>

While I agree with the sentiment whole heartedly, I do have to agree with
some one else who in another mail (already deleted, sorry) tried to defend
the game, saying that you're simply dealing with different power levels.
And he's correct. When it comes down to it, Munchkins aren't so much a
collection of numbers, as it is an RP style (or rather, lack of RP style).
I had one game of SR where, in an effort to tone down munchkinhood, I banned
many weapons, cyber, etc to get a low powered campaign. What I ended up
with (and this was because I let the players make their characters at home)
was a group that went in the opposite direction. I had a group of feebs who
were basically all fixer wannabees... I had one guy go so far as to take
30+ contacts, including Governor Shultz, Kyle Morgans greatest enemy, and
pretty much a high ranking official for every mega-corp, the Yaks, and the
Mafia...

Not a fighting skill or useful streetwise skill among five different
characters...

And they STILL had no personality... The one guy with the mega-contacts had
a few feeble excuses as to where his contacts came from, but it was lame...

The biggest problem that I personally have with Rifts, and teh whole
palladium system, is that the game is WAY too number intensive, and with
most players who are heavily into RIfts, there is little, if any, RP. The
game is all combat and numbers...

Granted, I've seen this happen with SR too, but It seems much more prevelant
with the palladium games.

Of course, once more we're simply talking about Munchkinism and why it
happens again, so I won't go into that once more. I'll simply say that
Munchkins are lured to the thought of Big Guns and lots of numbers...

Of course, one of the coolest games I ever participated in was a Palladium
game... Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles... Lots of role play, cool hand to
Hand combat, and a decent GM, so that helped...

Hmmmm, I'm babbling... I'll shutr up now...

Bull

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= =
= chaos@*****,com =
= =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

"Good Lord! I've heard of this - Cat juggling!"
-Steve Martin, "The Jerk"
Message no. 3
From: Tim Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Munchkin games..was RE: Physads and something or other..
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 19:03:07 -0800
On Sat, 4 Jan 1997, Bull wrote:

> At 06:21 PM 1/4/97 -0800, you wrote:
> >
> >But you see, there's a difference, in RIFTS you're SUPPOSED to be
> >munchkinous! :)
> >
> >It's a rule somewhere..:)
> >
> <grin>
>
> While I agree with the sentiment whole heartedly, I do have to agree with
> some one else who in another mail (already deleted, sorry) tried to defend
> the game, saying that you're simply dealing with different power levels.
> And he's correct. When it comes down to it, Munchkins aren't so much a
> collection of numbers, as it is an RP style (or rather, lack of RP style).

My biggest problem with RIFTS (we cycle through SR, WoD, and RIFTS, and
have fun playing all of them..course MAGE and SR are favorites...) is that
there are SO MANY 'numbers' and most of them mean absolutely nothing. In
a lot of cases, your attributes have little or no effect on the game at
all (except P.P and P.S.). Which is a big contibuting factor to the
munchkin syndrome. It's got a really wide open and high potential
environment/background..but a flawed system.

[snip 'tons of contacts' - been there, seen that]

>
> The biggest problem that I personally have with Rifts, and teh whole
> palladium system, is that the game is WAY too number intensive, and with
> most players who are heavily into RIfts, there is little, if any, RP. The
> game is all combat and numbers...
>
> Granted, I've seen this happen with SR too, but It seems much more prevelant
> with the palladium games.
>

The difference with SR is that at least you have more built in
rule-systems that make the numbers MEAN something and impact the game, not
to mention facilitate role-playing a bit more.
I think part of it is that there are a whole lot fewer things that make up
a SR character (at least game-system wise), and they mean a whole lot
more, which gives the player a better handle on role-playing that
particular PC. It's just a nice, simple, playable system... Guess thats
part of the reason we all like the darn thing..:)


>
> Bull
>

~Tim

Further Reading

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