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Message no. 1
From: Shiro BsquLadat shirogr@*****.com
Subject: Munchkinizing
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 11:02:38 -0700 (PDT)
I am an honest to God GM and player that has
only been in the Shadowrun game for a year but in that
time i have done a lot of munchkinizing to consider
myself amd my players master of the kind.So here is a
Munchkinizing challenge to the rest of the community:
How can you make a beginner character (fresh out of
creation) to have a martial art skill at 13 with 6
maneuvers?
And one for the spellworms:My mage has only been
given 4 karma but he has spellcasting 9 and summoning
7!How can that be?
The time limit is 7 days.
(Manolis Skoulikas is excluded from this challenge.No
hard feelings,right mate?)

And for all of you out there who may get offended by
this post,I say that I don't use these tricks in game.
Munchkinizing is an art form!


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Message no. 2
From: Keith Duthie psycho@*********.co.nz
Subject: Munchkinizing
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 07:23:13 +1300 (NZDT)
On Mon, 16 Oct 2000, Shiro BsquLadat wrote:

> How can you make a beginner character (fresh out of
> creation) to have a martial art skill at 13 with 6
> maneuvers?

Confuse the GM until he'll agree to anything? Or perhaps you paid 30 build
points for maneuvers, and took improve ability (your martial art) as a
physad power 7 times to enhance your skill rating of 6.

> And one for the spellworms:My mage has only been
> given 4 karma but he has spellcasting 9 and summoning
> 7!How can that be?

You cheated, and/or did something creative involving specializations, a
lvl3 mnemonic enhancer, and über-high willpower and charisma.

--
Understanding is a three edged sword. Do you *want* to get the point?
http://www.albatross.co.nz/~psycho/ O- -><-
Standard disclaimer: Opinions expressed in this message are unlikely to
be mine, let alone anybody elses...
Message no. 3
From: Jean-François Major maje123@*******.com
Subject: Munchkinizing
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 15:16:46 EDT
> How can you make a beginner character (fresh out of
>creation) to have a martial art skill at 13 with 6
>maneuvers?

Well, spend all your build points on maneuvers, buy the adept power 6 times,
install a Reflex Recorder on martial arts for another point, and take a
geasa to offset the loss. That seems to be the only way. One problem
though: if my memory is correct, you cannot take a geasa to offset Magic
loss by bioware, since you don't actually lose magic: only, your body has a
hard time channeling it. So either you or your player is wrong, or I can't
see the way to pull that off.


> And one for the spellworms:My mage has only been
>given 4 karma but he has spellcasting 9 and summoning
>7!How can that be?

Summoning at 7 is pretty easy: "I take Conjuring 5 (Summoning 7).
For Spellcasting, I don't know. It would, of course, require specialization
in Spellcasting, and maybe the use of a sustaining focus of a spell (wich I
never heard of) that would augment a skill such as Sorcery.

Well, I guess it's time to wait for the answer.

Jean-F. Major
Major2000@*******.com
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Message no. 4
From: Marc Renouf renouf@********.com
Subject: Munchkinizing
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 15:35:21 -0400 (EDT)
On Mon, 16 Oct 2000, Shiro BsquLadat wrote:

> How can you make a beginner character (fresh out of
> creation) to have a martial art skill at 13 with 6
> maneuvers?

Your munchkinizing is weak. You may roll 13 dice, but you do
*not* have a skill of 13. The difference is mighty, and I see an awful
lot of would-be munchkins confusing the issue. For one thing, you can
only add Combat Pool equal to your *skill,* not the number of dice you
roll. So physads who buy scads of extra dice with powers can still only
add 6 CP dice to an attack.

Marc Renouf (ShadowRN GridSec - "Bad Cop" Division)

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ShadowRN FAQ <http://hlair.dumpshock.com/faqindex.php3>;
Message no. 5
From: Arie a.j.denhollander@*******.utwente.nl
Subject: Munchkinizing
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 01:40:30 +0200
Shiro BsquLadat wrote:
>
> I am an honest to God GM and player that has
> only been in the Shadowrun game for a year but in that
> time i have done a lot of munchkinizing to consider
> myself amd my players master of the kind.So here is a
> Munchkinizing challenge to the rest of the community:
> How can you make a beginner character (fresh out of
> creation) to have a martial art skill at 13 with 6
> maneuvers?

A skill at 13 for a starting char? That's very improbable,
getting lots of dice however isn't that hard really.
Hmm for instance let's take a rating 5 skillwire, a dedicated chipjack
with a rating 10 wildcat soft which has a DIMAP 4 or 5 option
and a CED 5 of course, throw an Encephalon and a Cerebal
booster 2 in and you should get to a grand total of around
23 dice, but some of those are from pools, and that level
10 soft may be too expensive to fit into the million.
Or how about the ambidextrous monowhip adept with 7 skill
dice, improved whips rating 5, enhanced articulation and
a reflex recorder. With a decent combat pool 26 dice.
Throw in an aptitude whips with that and there you have
a munchkin.


> And one for the spellworms:My mage has only been
> given 4 karma but he has spellcasting 9 and summoning
> 7!How can that be?

Then your GM is a pancake for not changing the mnemonic enhancer
to knowledge skills only.

> The time limit is 7 days.
> (Manolis Skoulikas is excluded from this challenge.No
> hard feelings,right mate?)
>
> And for all of you out there who may get offended by
> this post,I say that I don't use these tricks in game.
> Munchkinizing is an art form!


regards,

Xerxes
Message no. 6
From: Alfredo B Alves dghost@****.com
Subject: Munchkinizing
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 21:44:31 -0500
On Mon, 16 Oct 2000 11:02:38 -0700 (PDT) Shiro BsquLadat
<shirogr@*****.com> writes:
> I am an honest to God GM and player that has
> only been in the Shadowrun game for a year but in that
> time i have done a lot of munchkinizing to consider
> myself amd my players master of the kind.So here is a
> Munchkinizing challenge to the rest of the community:
> How can you make a beginner character (fresh out of
> creation) to have a martial art skill at 13 with 6
> maneuvers?

Since you didn't say "no house rules", the easy way is to allow starting
characters to have up rating 13 skills. :P~

> And one for the spellworms:My mage has only been
> given 4 karma but he has spellcasting 9 and summoning
> 7!How can that be?
> The time limit is 7 days.
<SNIP>

Same explanation above applies here as well. ;P~

--
D. Ghost
Profanity is the one language all programmers know best
- Troutman's 6th programming postulate.
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Message no. 7
From: Sebastian Wiers m0ng005e@*****.com
Subject: Munchkinizing
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 21:58:53 -0500
-----Original Message-----
From: Shiro BsquLadat <shirogr@*****.com>

: How can you make a beginner character (fresh out of
:creation) to have a martial art skill at 13 with 6
:maneuvers?

I'll go with Marc onthat one; you can't. Its obviously easily make a
physad with a (specialized) skill of 7, 6 manuevers from that (and maybe
some OTHER martial skill(s)), and 6
levels of improved unarmed combat. That's not a skill of 13, however, and
"only" allows another 7 combat pool dice.

: And one for the spellworms:My mage has only been
:given 4 karma but he has spellcasting 9 and summoning
:7!How can that be?

Trivail. You could have started with summoning 7 and spellcasting 7.
Presuming your willpower is 9 (doable for an albino gnome with an edge,
iirc), raising spellcasting (an active concentration) to 8 costs 4 karma, as
does raising it to 9. A mnemonic enhancer rating 3 reduces each "raise" to
1 karma cost. How did you spend the other two points? Hopefully raisng
spell defense or even just your general sorcery skill...

:Munchkinizing is an art form!

Not when its so simple as just reading the rules and doing what they say,
like shown above.

Mongoose
Message no. 8
From: George S Waksman gsw13@****.com
Subject: Munchkinizing
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 23:18:56 -0400
On Mon, 16 Oct 2000 11:02:38 -0700 (PDT) Shiro BsquLadat
<shirogr@*****.com> writes:
> I am an honest to God GM and player that has
> only been in the Shadowrun game for a year but in that
> time i have done a lot of munchkinizing to consider
> myself amd my players master of the kind.So here is a
> Munchkinizing challenge to the rest of the community:
> How can you make a beginner character (fresh out of
> creation) to have a martial art skill at 13 with 6
> maneuvers?
> And one for the spellworms:My mage has only been
> given 4 karma but he has spellcasting 9 and summoning
> 7!How can that be?
> The time limit is 7 days.
> (Manolis Skoulikas is excluded from this challenge.No
> hard feelings,right mate?)
>
> And for all of you out there who may get offended by
> this post,I say that I don't use these tricks in game.
> Munchkinizing is an art form!


If munchkin creation is an art form, you sir are a starving artist

I think that your 13 skill, 6 manuever beginning character is both a
cheat and a wuss, cheat or no, I will out do him on four levels

1: A guy with Heavy Weapons 4 and an LMG doing a 10 bullet suppresive
fire into the meter he is in. You go nowhere.

2: A Giant with muscle aug. 4, Ranger-X bow, Str. Min 15 and dikote
arrows. Resisting a base damage of 20M at near-sniper ranges is not easy
even if you have military armor.

3: A troll with a riot shield, combat axe, and pole arm (axe) skill 5(7)
now if I use 7 combat pool then I have 14 dice looking for 2's and even
if you have 26 looking for 6's and probability is on my side buddy.

4: If you want sheer dice quantity I can do that with reach too. Start
with PhysAd, Edged(tomahawks) 5(7), Off-hand Edged(tomahawks) 5(7), get
reflex recorder Edged(tomahawks) and Off Hand Edged(tomahawks), Enhanced
articulation, and take 5 levels of the adept increase Edged (tomahawks)
and Off-Hand Edged(tomahawks) and we have a chracter who can weild two
dikoted tomahawks for (Str+1)S with 20 dice and 7 combat pool allowed,
but that is all he can do, pretty limited neh?

Personally I would take option one over all the rest because it allows
for the most variation otherwise, but I would rather have a chracter who
is more useful and less flat than some UberMunchkin in melee combat.

Why is it that so many people think that someone who is really good at
melee combat is a good munchkin, I would personally take a good gun over
any melee munchkin any day. If you are good at melee that's cool, but if
you never fight melee, that's better.


/*
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"War ist dien Hobo Feuer" <---- If my german is wrong correct me
*/
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Message no. 9
From: Lady Jestyr jestyr@*********.html.com
Subject: Munchkinizing
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 18:11:41 +1000
>A skill at 13 for a starting char? That's very improbable,
>getting lots of dice however isn't that hard really.
>Hmm for instance let's take a rating 5 skillwire, a dedicated chipjack
>with a rating 10 wildcat soft which has a DIMAP 4 or 5 option
^^^^^^^^^

Can't buy gear at Rating > 6 at character startup (p.270, SR3)...
otherwise, nice plan.

Lady Jestyr
~ Hell hath no fury like a geek with a whippersnipper ~

* jestyr@*****.com | URL: http://staff.dumpshock.com/jestyr *
Message no. 10
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Munchkinizing
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:40:29 +0200
According to Shiro BsquLadat, at 11:02 on 16 Oct 00, the word on the
street was...

> I am an honest to God GM and player that has
> only been in the Shadowrun game for a year but in that
> time i have done a lot of munchkinizing to consider
> myself amd my players master of the kind.So here is a
> Munchkinizing challenge to the rest of the community:
> How can you make a beginner character (fresh out of
> creation) to have a martial art skill at 13 with 6
> maneuvers?

I don't think you can... You can only have one maneuver for every 2 skill
points, and starting characters can't get their skill over 6 (7 if you
include specialization). Someone is bound to mention the adept power
Improved Ability, but that only adds dice, it does not increase the skill
level -- 13 dice is possible with a skill of 7 plus 6 extra dice, but
you'll only have 3 maneuvers.

You could get to 6 maneuvers if the GM allows you to spend skill points on
extra maneuvers, though, but it's an optional rule.

--
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It was a warning shot that missed.
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Message no. 11
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Munchkinizing
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 16:07:41 -0700 (PDT)
> >A skill at 13 for a starting char? That's very
improbable, getting lots of dice however isn't that
hard really. Hmm for instance let's take a rating 5
skillwire, a dedicated chipjack with a rating 10
wildcat soft which has a DIMAP 4 or 5 option
> ^^^^^^^^^
>
> Can't buy gear at Rating > 6 at character startup
(p.270, SR3)... otherwise, nice plan.
> Lady Jestyr

There is that.

I have a starting character who has 12 skills that he
can use at an effective rating of 12 each (although he
can only use one at once). He can even carry 9 of them
at one time (although the CED is only linked to one
chipjack, so only 3 of the skills (clustered softs)
can be used at rating 12 without switching chips, the
others at 6). Still, that ain't bad, considering that
10 of those 12 skills are non combat and 8 of the 12
normally don't have pools associated with them (the
pooled skills being computer, car, assault rifles and
launch weapons). I think having biotech, athletics,
stealth, demolitions, interrogation, etiquette,
negotiation and electronics effectively at rating 12
for a starting character is pretty nice.

And I don't even think it's munchkinous. Remember,
it's only munchkinous if PLAYED that way. :)

No, really.

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

Can you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

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Message no. 12
From: Manolis Skoulikas great_worm@*****.com
Subject: Munchkinizing
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 10:22:36 +0300
Shiro BsquLadat wrote:
> So here is a
> Munchkinizing challenge to the rest of the community:
snip
> (Manolis Skoulikas is excluded from this challenge.No
> hard feelings,right mate?)

As if I was ever gracious and non-vindictive!
In one hour you will be entering a world of unfathomable hurt!
The prison of Yedi kule in awakened Salonika is waiting...
So are the hairy sweaty sex starved inmates.

>
> And for all of you out there who may get offended by
> this post,I say that I don't use these tricks in game.

That;s only becauser I don't let you! :)

But after today you'd wish I had! :)

> Munchkinizing is an art form!

Hail to this!

Let me add:
In your campaigns it is also the only means of survival!!!!:)
(he once measured his campaign threat ratingin the SRComp
and he ceremoniously got "You got a great campaign there, but
we don;t want to be in it!!"

the wiz (an ex munchkin(?) and a present victim of this madman!) :)

Further Reading

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Thwap!