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Message no. 1
From: The Powerhouse <P.C.Steele@*********.AC.UK>
Subject: Musings on Psionics
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 1994 15:37:33 +0100
Haven't bothered to comment before now as alot of this was covered last time
the Psionic debate came around. However it seems to be that there are two
ways of approaching the subject which keep the game balanced and within FASA's
guidelines for character creation.

Treat Psi's as magicians with different names. Works like a dream, all their
abilities are equivalent to spells, replace sorcery with a mind focusing skill.
Initiation would give meta-psi powers which could be used to enhace psi powers
psi skills etc <btw you have to use the gradual initiation rules for this>.

The other alternative and the one I prefer if I decided to include this in a
campaign of mine is to go down the skill based path as someone suggested. This
to me is much more in line with the psi's that I'm familiar from popular fiction
and TV. Essentially something like a PSI from Babylon 5.

Here's a few ideas of how I would do it. <N.B. I haven't worked out everything
fully yet so there will be a few ... gaps :) >

First, get rid of the idea of creating a new character creation letter, some
of us like the fact that metas need an A and magic users <human> need an A. Now
get rid of the idea of 3 classes, you can always introduce a 3rd class at a
later stage if you really want to but try and keep the game balanced if you
can, so I'd allow only full or adept psi's.

PSI's chose the same option as a magician would do, I know everybody wants
something different from a magician but the two should balance out. Wierd
variants are up for individiual GM's to come up with if they so wish.

Decide how the powers will work, I favor skill based as these make more sense
and are much more sensible. But that requires a large number of skills, to
keep things balanced I'd make skill cost equal to a concentration which can
accept specialisations. Ie general skill at concentration cost of telekinesis,
specialisation <at normal cost of specialisation> in melee combat.

Now you need some way to limit the power and make more power essentially
available. This is easily done by converting the magic rating into a psi
rating. As psi power increases drain can be more easily resisted, more
abilities become available etc..


Now I know you are all shaking your heads out there as most of you seem to
have some super munchkin psi-god that will be capable of everything in mind.
But as an example I'll try and demonstrate the sort of thing I have in mind.


Consider Bert the grade 3 psi student. His psi rating is 6 + 3 <he has no
cyber and never suffered any burnout>

He has a skill in psi-mind <a made up psi skill which includes telepathy,
thought control, emotion control, read thoughts and other such appropiate
abilities> of 6. He wishes to read the surface thoughts of the Johnson he is
meeting and is close to the person. The GM decides how hard this would be
this would involve things such as the subjects willpower, wether he was actively
trying to hide his thoughts <could be skill based>, wether he has any magical
protection etc... A system could be devised whereby the TN's can be worked
out but I'm still musing the whole idea before I start to do some maths. <As
a guide a quick conversion to the similar spell could be made to provide
guidelines>

The player would treat his skill as a pool and add his grade to the pool. The
GM would make a resistance test for the Johnson using a the number of dice
that Bert took from his skill as a TN <note: do not include grade dice in this
calculation>. What Bert leaves behind he gets to resist drain which would
have a drain code that would depend on the difficulty of the task at hand <GM's
call> and his total psi-power 6+3. In fact drain may not even have to be
resistable if the force <for want of a better word> is less than say 1/2 the
total psi's power.

Well there you can see a very basic but workable psi system. I decided I'd
change some things even as I wrote this, for example I'd not have the skills
with a conentration cost as previous suggested, I'd make it a full skill as
teh amount of things possible with each skill should be large and they are
effectively the psi's spells.

Other things, I'd make it so that psi's had astral perception but not
projection. Projection is more the realm of the mage/shaman as it invloves
dealing with spirits etc something that I wouldn't allow a psi to summon. I'd
also make it that psi's have double essence loss for anything that affects the
brain as all their power is based in there and if you cut bits out then surely
you'll lose that power <N.B. things like dermal plating and wires would still
be ok, but smartguns, eyes, datajacks etc would cause a big time headache>.
Or even outlaw cyberware that affects the brain, any headware and you lose your
powers.

As to what skills the psi should have or should be able to learn well I think
someone made a list of potential abilities. I'd use something akin to this
and then create concentrations, specialisations etc as I saw fit.


What do you all think to this approach, it's still in it's raw stage but if
you really want to go down the psi route I seriously think that skill based
powers are the way to go. Psi's may seem more powerful than the normal mage
but when you consider that they will probably suffer much more from drain, at
least for anything that is highpowered or unless a high graded psi, than a
normal mage and that they cannot project or summon elements/spirits I think it
averages out.

Phill.
--
Phillip Steele - Email address P.C.Steele@***.ac.uk | Fighting against
Department Of Electrical & Electronic Engineering | Political Correctness !
University Of Newcastle Upon Tyne, England |
Land of the mad Geordies | The Powerhouse
Message no. 2
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Musings on Psionics
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 1994 19:32:55 +0100
On Thu, 14 Jul 1994, The Powerhouse wrote:

> Treat Psi's as magicians with different names. Works like a dream, all their
> abilities are equivalent to spells, replace sorcery with a mind focusing skill.
> Initiation would give meta-psi powers which could be used to enhace psi powers
> psi skills etc <btw you have to use the gradual initiation rules for this>.

I like this version, and I'll explain why in a moment.

> The other alternative and the one I prefer if I decided to include this in a
> campaign of mine is to go down the skill based path as someone suggested. This
> to me is much more in line with the psi's that I'm familiar from popular fiction
> and TV. Essentially something like a PSI from Babylon 5.

A skill-based (ie, you spend skill points) can lead to munchkin
characters. A person can take 'A' in magic, and 'B' in PSI, and 'C' in
tech and have 20 points of magic and then spend skill for PSI.
Munchkin.

In addition, to some extent it is skill-like, as there are different
levels of PSI ability (but no concentrations and the like).

I guess that didn't make as much sense as I thought. Basically, I think
using things like Concentrations and Specializations will A)
overcomplicate and B) unbalance the system.

> First, get rid of the idea of creating a new character creation letter, some
> of us like the fact that metas need an A and magic users <human> need an A.
Now
> get rid of the idea of 3 classes, you can always introduce a 3rd class at a
> later stage if you really want to but try and keep the game balanced if you
> can, so I'd allow only full or adept psi's.

Wasn't there some talk about a week or two ago about a Wild Mage? It was
a mage that had very limited powers and minimal access to astral (you had
to spend karma to go astral, if I remember). You had to put a C into
magic to be this. That was the justification (besides role-playing
reasons) for adding a 'C' psionic.

> Decide how the powers will work, I favor skill based as these make more sense
> and are much more sensible. But that requires a large number of skills, to
> keep things balanced I'd make skill cost equal to a concentration which can
> accept specialisations. Ie general skill at concentration cost of telekinesis,
> specialisation <at normal cost of specialisation> in melee combat.

One of the problems is that many, if not most, of the powers that PSIs
have also have similiar if not identical spells. It then becomes very
easy to determine effects either by using spells as a template or the
Grimey's construction instructions. When we start assigning supernatural
powers to mundane skill, it will lead to a world of confusion and a world
of munchkins.

> Now you need some way to limit the power and make more power essentially
> available. This is easily done by converting the magic rating into a psi
> rating. As psi power increases drain can be more easily resisted, more
> abilities become available etc..

A PSI rating, I think, has always been planned, althought he exact
mechanics of how it is calculated (willpower? essence? both? something
else?) has yet to be determined.


____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> I do not necessarily speak for the
\/ Finger for PGP Public Key <=> City of Mankato or anyone else, dammit
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)
Message no. 3
From: Darth Vader <j07c@***.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Musings on Psionics
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 1994 19:09:14 +0100
> One of the problems is that many, if not most, of the powers that PSIs
> have also have similiar if not identical spells. It then becomes very
> easy to determine effects either by using spells as a template or the
> Grimey's construction instructions. When we start assigning supernatural
> powers to mundane skill, it will lead to a world of confusion and a world
> of munchkins.

But dear Robert, psis are mundanes. Psi powers have nothing to do with magic
thei are skills that are based on powers of the brain and are attained through
rigorous training.

--
Strong am I with the Force... but not that strong!
Twilight is upon me and soon night must fall.
That is the way of things ... the way of the Force.

GCS -d+@ -p+(---) c+++ l++ u+++ e+ m++(-) s+/ !n(---) h*(+) f+ !g w+ t+ r++ y?
Message no. 4
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@******.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Musings on Psionics
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 1994 16:20:53 +0100
On Fri, 15 Jul 1994, Darth Vader wrote:

> But dear Robert, psis are mundanes. Psi powers have nothing to do with magic
> thei are skills that are based on powers of the brain and are attained through
> rigorous training.

PSI != MAGIC and I never said it did. PSI is also not just training, it
is training someone that has psionic ability. Not everyone has ability,
just a select few.

____ Robert A. Hayden <=> hayden@******.mankato.msus.edu
\ /__ -=-=-=-=- <=> -=-=-=-=-
\/ / Finger for Geek Code Info <=> I do not necessarily speak for the
\/ Finger for PGP Public Key <=> City of Mankato or anyone else, dammit
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 1.0.1) GAT d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++
n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)
Message no. 5
From: The Powerhouse <P.C.Steele@*********.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Musings on Psionics
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 1994 15:54:51 +0100
In reply to Robert A. Hayden .....

First apologies for overquoting but there has been so much talk on this subject
that no one will be able to remember the original message.

PH> The other alternative and the one I prefer if I decided to include this in
PH> a campaign of mine is to go down the skill based path as someone suggested.
PH> This to me is much more in line with the psi's that I'm familiar from
PH> popular fiction and TV. Essentially something like a PSI from Babylon 5.

RH> A skill-based (ie, you spend skill points) can lead to munchkin
RH> characters. A person can take 'A' in magic, and 'B' in PSI, and 'C' in
RH> tech and have 20 points of magic and then spend skill for PSI.
RH> Munchkin.

No, you're wrong I'm not sure where you got this assumption from but I never
said that people would be able to mix the two. I might not have said that they
couldn't but that is not the same as saying that they could. I would not
allow anyone to mix the two areas <at least not a PC, special NPC's are up to
the GM>.

RH> In addition, to some extent it is skill-like, as there are different
RH> levels of PSI ability (but no concentrations and the like).

RH> I guess that didn't make as much sense as I thought. Basically, I think
RH> using things like Concentrations and Specializations will A)
RH> overcomplicate and B) unbalance the system.

There is certainly a potential for unbalancing the system as a player does not
have to 'learn' spells or the equivalent Psionic power. However when that is
balanced with the higher cyberware costs for headware and the inability to
project <could be possible as an initiation power but it's something I'm not
happy with> or summon spirits of any type <should never be available in my
mind> I think you will find that the system balances.

Basically there would be a skill for each division of PSI power with associated
concentrations and specialisations. Whereas for magic there are just two core
skills, conjuring and sorcery with magic theory used for spell design etc.

I would demand a skill per category and in adition something similar to magic
theory which would combine the research aspects of all branches of PSI power.

PH> First, get rid of the idea of creating a new character creation letter, some
PH> of us like the fact that metas need an A and magic users <human> need an A.
PH> Now get rid of the idea of 3 classes, you can always introduce a 3rd class
PH> at a later stage if you really want to but try and keep the game balanced if
PH> you can, so I'd allow only full or adept psi's.

RH> Wasn't there some talk about a week or two ago about a Wild Mage? It was
RH> a mage that had very limited powers and minimal access to astral (you had
RH> to spend karma to go astral, if I remember). You had to put a C into
RH> magic to be this. That was the justification (besides role-playing
RH> reasons) for adding a 'C' psionic.

You could do this but I'd strongly advise sorting out full psi's and adepts
before you worry yourself about 'wild' psi's. You also misinterpreted my
statement, I was saying that there is no need for a new character creation
letter, ie F. Keep things the way they are, they do work after all :)

<Other stuff deleted as I have to go>

Basically I still think the skill method is the way to go, force points wouldn't
mean bugger all to PSI's, as everyone keeps saying PSI's are not mages. Oh and
another point I forgot to mention is that I wouldn't allow PSI's to bond magical
items. Wether they could develop their own items is another question.


Don't discount a skill system though, it is radically different and if
implemented correctly can still provide a balanced system as anything else that
is being proposed, if done properly and run with a good GM there should be no
munchkinism.

Phill.
--
Phillip Steele - Email address P.C.Steele@***.ac.uk | Fighting against
Department Of Electrical & Electronic Engineering | Political Correctness !
University Of Newcastle Upon Tyne, England |
Land of the mad Geordies | The Powerhouse

Further Reading

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