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Message no. 1
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: My first magician
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 18:51:58 -0500
You know, I've been playing this game since 1990 and I've never played a
magician character before. Ever. Not even an adept. Just never bothered
with magic much, since muscle and speed were always so much fun for me.

Well, I just recently got the chance to get involved and actually play in a
game of SR2 here this afternoon and I decided to change directions. Thus
was born my first magician. My problem is I don't know if he's really any
good for anything but medical duty (well, I do so know -- no, not really,
though the sleep spell has already paid off in game time). He's very much
geared towards non-lethal response (also something different for my
characters). Anyway, I wanted to throw his stats out so that any of you
more magically-oriented types could see if I made any glaring mistakes in
putting him together. I'm just throwing out stats, not equipment lists and
stuff. Please let me know what you think.

Shadowrun 2nd Edition generation, Priority system
A - Magic, B - Attributes, C - Resources, D - Skills, E- Race

Thomas Magick
Witch / Nature Magician (Totem/Idol: the Great Mother)

REAL NAME: Thomas Ian McAllister CURRENT ALIAS: Thomas Magick
SPECIES: Homo sapiens sapiens GENDER: Male
DATE OF BIRTH: 17 March 2028 PLACE OF BIRTH: Amarillo, TX, CAS
HEIGHT: 178 cm (5'10") WEIGHT: 80.4 kg (177 lbs)
EYES: Hazel HAIR: Dark brown

GOOD KARMA: 0 KARMA POOL: 1

CASH RESERVES: 3,615 ¥

ATTRIBUTES SKILLS SPELLS

Body 3 Biotech 4 Bind 3
Quickness 4 Conjuring 3 Chaotic World 3
Strength 3 Etiquette (Medical) 2 Heal 6
Charisma 4 Etiquette (Street) 1 Mana Bolt 3
Intelligence 6 Firearms 1 Sleep 5
Willpower 4 Magical Theory 2 Stabilize 5
Essence 6 Sorcery 6
Magic 6 Unarmed Combat 1
Reaction 5
Initiative 5 + 1D6
Combat Pool 7
Magic Pool 6

If anyone actually wants the personal history (how I justified skills and
such), let me know. Basically, he's a paramedic who didn't much like the
way DocWagon ran their business (though the background's still a little in
flux while my GM and I hammer on it).

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 2
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: My first magician
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 19:07:23 -0500
----------
> From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>



> though the sleep spell has already paid off in game time). He's very
much
> geared towards non-lethal response (also something different for my
> characters). Anyway, I wanted to throw his stats out so that any of you
> more magically-oriented types could see if I made any glaring mistakes
in
> putting him together. I'm just throwing out stats, not equipment lists
and
> stuff. Please let me know what you think.

<snip stats>

While he has potential for medical duty, as befits a Priest of the Great
Mother, perhaps you can also look at him as fire support. Sure, since
you're playing SRII the sammy is going to throw a lot of lead before you
get a chance to act, but try Binding your opponents, or dropping a Chaotic
World on them. Its much easier for your sammies to hit their targets when
their minds are blown by magic. Don't neglect your conjuring ability,
either. IMO, one of the greatest advantages a shaman character has is his
ability to conjure spirits of the land. While some people will argue for
elementals, I think that nature spirits have their own special charm. Try
a few Wind spirits, which can be conjured damn near anywhere outside, and
have them play with your enemies.

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bard to the Lady Mari
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars
ICQ 8108180 AIM: Nexx3
How many Druids does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
Doesn't happen. Druids screw in stone circles, not lightbulbs.
--------[Geek Code Block]-----------
GED/GSS d- s++:+ a-- C++ W w+ PS+.5 PE- Y+ t+
5+ X+ R*+.5 !tv+ b+.5 DI+ D- G e h !r-- !y+
-------[End Geek Code Block]-------
Message no. 3
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: My first magician
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 20:31:00 -0500
>While he has potential for medical duty, as befits a Priest of the
>Great Mother, perhaps you can also look at him as fire support.

He'll be going there, fire support that is. I was just so dadgum impressed
with myself for actually putting together a magician, I felt the need to
crow about him a little.... <beams>

The session this afternoon had to be abbreviated because one of the guys got
got paged in to work, so we called it a day early. My plans for this guy
are to act as a balance for the slightly hyper ork sammy (and the really
twitchy human sammy) and try to keep the body count down (Thomas's weapon of
choice is an Ares Squirt loaded with a DMSO/Narcoject cocktail...at 200Y a
dose, that crap's expensive...). I'm a little ticked that I didn't get to
rifle through some of the crates of medical supplies in that warehouse to
see if there was any of the stuff in there.

>Sure, since
>you're playing SRII the sammy is going to throw a lot of lead before you
>get a chance to act, but try Binding your opponents, or dropping a Chaotic
>World on them. Its much easier for your sammies to hit their targets when
>their minds are blown by magic.

That was the general notion there, too. I've only played this guy the one
time so far, so I've not had a chance to really explore what he can do (but
I've got his personality down already...he's sort of the anti-mage, doing
everything he can do knock down the stereotypes people have of magicians.
"Thomas Magick, how the hell are ya?!" and that sort of thing).

Thanks for all the advice, though, Nexx...I really do appreciate it.

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 4
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: My first magician
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 20:43:40 -0500
----------
> From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>

> >While he has potential for medical duty, as befits a Priest of the
> >Great Mother, perhaps you can also look at him as fire support.
>
> He'll be going there, fire support that is. I was just so dadgum
impressed
> with myself for actually putting together a magician, I felt the need to
> crow about him a little.... <beams>

(laughs) Well, I guess I can forgive a Texan for crowing about his own
accomplishments. That character flaw seems to be bred into them. <g>


> twitchy human sammy) and try to keep the body count down (Thomas's
weapon of
> choice is an Ares Squirt loaded with a DMSO/Narcoject cocktail...at 200Y
a
> dose, that crap's expensive...).

For real fun, try a DMSO\LSD cocktail. It will likely be a bit cheaper,
and should serve as a non-magical version of that Chaos spell.

> Thanks for all the advice, though, Nexx...I really do appreciate it.

Keine problem, mi amigo. Happy to do it (how is that for butchering a
couple languages?

> ---
> (>) Texas 2-Step
> El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bard to the Lady Mari
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars
ICQ 8108180 AIM: Nexx3
How many Druids does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
Doesn't happen. Druids screw in stone circles, not lightbulbs.
--------[Geek Code Block]-----------
GED/GSS d- s++:+ a-- C++ W w+ PS+.5 PE- Y+ t+
5+ X+ R*+.5 !tv+ b+.5 DI+ D- G e h !r-- !y+
-------[End Geek Code Block]-------
Message no. 5
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: My first magician
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 20:51:43 -0500
>> I was just so dadgum impressed with myself
>> for actually putting together a magician, I felt the need to
>> crow about him a little.... <beams>
>
>(laughs) Well, I guess I can forgive a Texan for crowing about his own
>accomplishments. That character flaw seems to be bred into them. <g>

It's part of our insufferable charm.

>> (Thomas's weapon of choice is
>> an Ares Squirt loaded with a DMSO/Narcoject cocktail...at 200Y
>> a dose, that crap's expensive...).
>
>For real fun, try a DMSO\LSD cocktail. It will likely be a bit cheaper,
>and should serve as a non-magical version of that Chaos spell.

Will have to look into that.

>> Thanks for all the advice, though, Nexx...I really do appreciate it.
>
>Keine problem, mi amigo. Happy to do it (how is that for butchering a
>couple languages?

I doubt I could have done it myself.

Now for the fun project: Converting my oldest Shadowrun character over to
SR3 rules....

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 6
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: My first magician
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 21:40:28 -0500
----------
> From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>

> >(laughs) Well, I guess I can forgive a Texan for crowing about his own
> >accomplishments. That character flaw seems to be bred into them. <g>
>
> It's part of our insufferable charm.

Insufferable something...

> >For real fun, try a DMSO\LSD cocktail. It will likely be a bit
cheaper,
> >and should serve as a non-magical version of that Chaos spell.
>
> Will have to look into that.

Do. Its too great an idea to be wasted.

> >Keine problem, mi amigo. Happy to do it (how is that for butchering a
> >couple languages?
>
> I doubt I could have done it myself.

It is said that bards have a special way with words... <g>

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bard to the Lady Mari
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars
"The Kelti said of themselves that they did not lie, but they sometimes
took a very long way around in getting to the truth, with frequent stops
at interesting spots along the way."
-Morgan Llywelyn "The Horse Goddess"
Message no. 7
From: XaOs <xaos@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: My first magician
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 00:13:41 -0500
> I'm just throwing out stats, not equipment
> lists and
> stuff. Please let me know what you think.

Warning, possible munchkin, min/max analysis ahead. (Just working with what
I'm given).

> Shadowrun 2nd Edition generation, Priority system
> A - Magic, B - Attributes, C - Resources, D - Skills, E- Race

Based upon the karma costs for advancement, I generally put Skills above
Attributes. You start off a bit weaker, but end up stronger faster.
(Possible correction of that initial weakness would be some Increase
[Attribute] +4 spells).

> Thomas Magick
> Witch / Nature Magician (Totem/Idol: the Great Mother)

Hmmm...Great Mother in Amarillo, Texas? I suppose this'd be covered in your
background.

> REAL NAME: Thomas Ian McAllister CURRENT ALIAS: Thomas Magick
> SPECIES: Homo sapiens sapiens GENDER: Male
> DATE OF BIRTH: 17 March 2028 PLACE OF BIRTH: Amarillo, TX, CAS
> HEIGHT: 178 cm (5'10") WEIGHT: 80.4 kg (177 lbs)
> EYES: Hazel HAIR: Dark brown
>
> GOOD KARMA: 0 KARMA POOL: 1
>
> CASH RESERVES: 3,615 ¥
>
> ATTRIBUTES SKILLS SPELLS
>
> Body 3 Biotech 4 Bind 3
> Quickness 4 Conjuring 3 Chaotic World 3
> Strength 3 Etiquette (Medical) 2 Heal 6
> Charisma 4 Etiquette (Street) 1 Mana Bolt 3
> Intelligence 6 Firearms 1 Sleep 5
> Willpower 4 Magical Theory 2 Stabilize 5
> Essence 6 Sorcery 6
> Magic 6 Unarmed Combat 1
> Reaction 5
> Initiative 5 + 1D6
> Combat Pool 7
> Magic Pool 6

You'll generally find spellcasting easier with a higher Willpower, and you
can do with a lower Intelligence. (A reason why Dwarves should really be the
best mages...NOT Elves).

I'm curious why you'd even have Unarmed Combat and Firearms skills at 1. (Of
course, I haven't gone and calculated the odds of Quickness 4 dice at +4 TN,
vs. 1 skill die).

> If anyone actually wants the personal history (how I justified skills and
> such), let me know. Basically, he's a paramedic who didn't much like the
> way DocWagon ran their business (though the background's still a little in
> flux while my GM and I hammer on it).


I liked your comments in a later post about you contradicting stereotypes. I
have a tendency to do that with my characters. (Funny though how people
sometimes count that as poor role-playing).

-XaOs-
xaos@*****.net
Message no. 8
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: My first magician
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 08:03:39 -0500
>Warning, possible munchkin, min/max analysis ahead. (Just working
>with what I'm given).

Happens that way sometimes. <g>

>> Thomas Magick
>> Witch / Nature Magician (Totem/Idol: the Great Mother)
>
>Hmmm...Great Mother in Amarillo, Texas? I suppose this'd be covered in your
>background.

Wiccans and other pagans are everywhere. I used to live next door to a
couple; very interesting people. I got the notion for this out of TARGET:
UCAS where one of the narrators of the Boston segment was a nature magician
following the Great Mother. She's not limited to Germany, you know.

>You'll generally find spellcasting easier with a higher Willpower, and you
>can do with a lower Intelligence. (A reason why Dwarves should really be
the
>best mages...NOT Elves).

Possibly my own min/max attitude...lower the Intel and my Reaction goes down
(holdover from my "really fast sammy" days). I like Reaction, Reaction is
Good, Reaction is my friend.... <g> I'm sure you know the mantra.

>I'm curious why you'd even have Unarmed Combat and Firearms skills at 1.
(Of
>course, I haven't gone and calculated the odds of Quickness 4 dice at +4
TN,
>vs. 1 skill die).

I didn't either. Part of his background (training w/ DocWagon).

>I liked your comments in a later post about you contradicting stereotypes.
I
>have a tendency to do that with my characters. (Funny though how people
>sometimes count that as poor role-playing).

Joke them if they can't take a f...waitaminnit, that's not right....

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 9
From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: My first magician
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 12:07:00 -0700
-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Date: Monday, August 24, 1998 6:07 AM
Subject: Re: My first magician


>>Warning, possible munchkin, min/max analysis ahead. (Just working
>>with what I'm given).


Ditto

>>You'll generally find spellcasting easier with a higher Willpower, and you
>>can do with a lower Intelligence. (A reason why Dwarves should really be
>the
>>best mages...NOT Elves).
>
>Possibly my own min/max attitude...lower the Intel and my Reaction goes down
>(holdover from my "really fast sammy" days). I like Reaction, Reaction is
>Good, Reaction is my friend.... <g> I'm sure you know the mantra.
>

Eh, I figure, if your reaction ain't double digit, why worry about it?
Just be real good at what you DO do, don't worry about doing it fast. Now,
intelligence I like on its own; perception is your friend, if you spot trouble
befor it spots you, you don't need to be fast.
(This coming from sobody who has palyed a 17 + 4d6 elf samuria, and a 3+1d6
troll air elementalist)

>>I'm curious why you'd even have Unarmed Combat and Firearms skills at 1.
>(Of
>>course, I haven't gone and calculated the odds of Quickness 4 dice at +4
>TN,
>>vs. 1 skill die).
>
>I didn't either. Part of his background (training w/ DocWagon).

Considering that (whatever Mike might say in the BABY) 1 is totally
incompetant, you either don't have enough skill or don't need it at all (your
defaults could "fake it"). A skill of one costs one karma point; that 1 skill
point could raise some other skill to 4-6, whcih costs MANY karma points.
Classic min/maxing, sure. Then again, which would doc wagon rather employ; a
decent conjourer who might drop his gun, or a really good conjurer, who never
uses that gun?
If you do need a combat skill, Unarmed makes more sense; patients are not
always co-operative.

Mongoose
Message no. 10
From: Steve Collins <einan@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: My first magician
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 13:29:06 -0400
>Wiccans and other pagans are everywhere. I used to live next door to a
>couple; very interesting people. I got the notion for this out of TARGET:
>UCAS where one of the narrators of the Boston segment was a nature magician
>following the Great Mother. She's not limited to Germany, you know.
>

Actually none of the magical archetypes are. Druids are all over the
place as well. I find it amusing that through a wierd series of events I
ended up on the board of directors as a founding member of a druidic
religous group founded in NH.

Steve
Message no. 11
From: Wiebke & Birger Timm <WiebkeT@********.DE>
Subject: Re: My first magician
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 14:51:14 +0200
Nexx wrote:

> Keine problem, mi amigo. Happy to do it (how is that for butchering a
> couple languages?

*grin* Sounds good! It's that kind of weird stuff that comes out of my mouth
when I play computer games (which often are English)... Sounds so funny when
you use English words within a German sentence...:-)

Blix
Message no. 12
From: David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: My first magician
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 14:36:54 -0400
On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, Steve Collins wrote:

->Actually none of the magical archetypes are. Druids are all over the
->place as well. I find it amusing that through a wierd series of events I
->ended up on the board of directors as a founding member of a druidic
->religous group founded in NH.

I, for one, would love to hear this story. Perhaps it would make
an interesting SR adventure interpreted correctly.

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 13
From: Bai Shen <baishen@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: My first magician
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 22:30:10 -0400
> > twitchy human sammy) and try to keep the body count down (Thomas's weapon of
> > choice is an Ares Squirt loaded with a DMSO/Narcoject cocktail...at 200Y a
> > dose, that crap's expensive...).
> For real fun, try a DMSO\LSD cocktail. It will likely be a bit cheaper,
> and should serve as a non-magical version of that Chaos spell.

Hyper works real good as well.-grin-
--
Bai Shen
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
http://www.series2000.com/users/baishen
UIN 3543257 (Don't ask to join if you aren't going to send me anything.)
Message no. 14
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: My first magician
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 21:35:00 -0500
>> For real fun, try a DMSO\LSD cocktail. It will likely be a bit
>> cheaper, and should serve as a non-magical version of that Chaos
>> spell.
>
>Hyper works real good as well.-grin-

But I don't want them moving around, Bai.

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 15
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: My first magician
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 21:51:27 -0500
>>Possibly my own min/max attitude...lower the Intel and my Reaction
>>goes down (holdover from my "really fast sammy" days). I like Reaction,
>>Reaction is Good, Reaction is my friend.... <g> I'm sure you know
>>the mantra.
>
>Eh, I figure, if your reaction ain't double digit, why worry about it?

You play your way, I'll play mine. I like it a little higher if I can get
it that way.

>>>I'm curious why you'd even have Unarmed Combat and Firearms skills
>>>at 1. (Of course, I haven't gone and calculated the odds of
>>>Quickness 4 dice at +4 TN, vs. 1 skill die).
>>
>>I didn't either. Part of his background (training w/ DocWagon).
>
>Considering that (whatever Mike might say in the BABY) 1 is totally
>incompetant, you either don't have enough skill or don't need it at all
>(your defaults could "fake it").

No, a 1 isn't totally incompetent. Not having a skill is being totally
incompetent. And I tend to disagree that defaulting to something on the
skill web could "fake it" with a +4 to the TN. I tend to prefer a minimal
skill in something to no skill at all; it's worked for me in a lot of games
for a lot of years, so I see no reason to change it now.

>A skill of one costs one karma point; that 1 skill point
>could raise some other skill to 4-6, whcih costs MANY karma points.

Yep. OTOH, I didn't feel like running this guy the same way as I've run
other characters (and I've been min/maxing for decades...).

>Then again, which would doc wagon rather employ; a decent conjurer
>who might drop his gun, or a really good conjurer, who never uses that gun?

A very good sorceror who rarely even pulls the gun from its holster unless
the situation gets really dire.

>If you do need a combat skill, Unarmed makes more sense; patients are
>not always co-operative.

True enough.

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 16
From: Duncan McNeill-Burton <dmcneill@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: My first magician
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 22:54:49 -0400
Pat Goodman didst sayeth:
>>> For real fun, try a DMSO\LSD cocktail. It will likely be a bit
>>> cheaper, and should serve as a non-magical version of that Chaos
>>> spell.
>>
>>Hyper works real good as well.-grin-
>
>But I don't want them moving around, Bai.


If they're doped up on hyper they won't. They sound of their own footsteps
would be excruciating. Thus they scream, which gets even louder, so they
scream louder, and so on.

Or how's this...cut some corners and mix the stuff with Drano, or the 2060
equivalent. It's a lot meaner, but it's cheaper, and should confuse the
hell out of the coroner.

Later-

Duncan McNeill-Burton
-Tech Priest in Training
-Violent Felon for Hire
-Pipe-wielding Sociopath for Fun
http://attila.stevens-tech.edu/~dmcneill
"Your eyes shiver and you grit your teeth,
You've sold you soul now cold blood's how you get relief."
-Ice-T, The Syndicate
Message no. 17
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: My first magician
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 22:01:30 -0500
>Or how's this...cut some corners and mix the stuff with Drano, or the 2060
>equivalent. It's a lot meaner, but it's cheaper, and should confuse the
>hell out of the coroner.

Yeah, but that misses out on the "non-lethal response" aspect of the
character.

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 18
From: Duncan McNeill-Burton <dmcneill@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: My first magician
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 23:07:44 -0400
Pat Goodman didst sayeth:

>>Or how's this...cut some corners and mix the stuff with Drano, or the 2060
>>equivalent. It's a lot meaner, but it's cheaper, and should confuse the
>>hell out of the coroner.
>
>Yeah, but that misses out on the "non-lethal response" aspect of the
>character.


That it does...but it was more of a tangential suggestion. Think of it as
another on the list of 101 fun things to do with DMSO...if you're a
psychotic killer.

Later-

Duncan McNeill-Burton
-Tech Priest in Training
-Violent Felon for Hire
-Pipe-wielding Sociopath for Fun
http://attila.stevens-tech.edu/~dmcneill
"Your eyes shiver and you grit your teeth,
You've sold you soul now cold blood's how you get relief."
-Ice-T, The Syndicate
Message no. 19
From: Bai Shen <baishen@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: My first magician
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 23:59:09 -0400
> >>> For real fun, try a DMSO\LSD cocktail. It will likely be a bit
> >>> cheaper, and should serve as a non-magical version of that Chaos
> >>> spell.
> >>Hyper works real good as well.-grin-
> >But I don't want them moving around, Bai.
> If they're doped up on hyper they won't. They sound of their own footsteps
> would be excruciating. Thus they scream, which gets even louder, so they
> scream louder, and so on.

True.

> Or how's this...cut some corners and mix the stuff with Drano, or the 2060
> equivalent. It's a lot meaner, but it's cheaper, and should confuse the
> hell out of the coroner.

That's evil. I like it.-grin-
--
Bai Shen
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
http://www.series2000.com/users/baishen
UIN 3543257 (Don't ask to join if you aren't going to send me anything.)
Message no. 20
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: My first magician
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 23:43:01 -0500
>Pat Goodman didst sayeth:

Patrick, please. "Pat" is reserved for family, and most of them still call
me "Patrick." I get a little twitchy when non-family use it. Nothing
personal. Thanks.

>>>....mix the stuff with Drano, or the 2060 equivalent. It's a
>>>lot meaner, but it's cheaper, and should confuse the hell out
>>>of the coroner.
>>
>>Yeah, but that misses out on the "non-lethal response" aspect of the
>>character.

Which, incidentally, he's very adamant about. He understands that on a run,
sometimes the other guy has to go down permanently, but that's what samurai
are for. He'll deal with his conscience on that score after the run, but to
this point he's never killed another sentient being.

Which is going to make the first time, when it comes, a real bitch....

>That it does...but it was more of a tangential suggestion.

Understood.

>Think of it as another on the list of 101 fun things to do with
>DMSO...if you're a psychotic killer.

Or the paramedic cleaning up after said psychotic killer. <adds notion to
list>

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 21
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: My first magician
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 03:13:07 EDT
In a message dated 8/24/1998 1:29:01 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US writes:

>
> ->Actually none of the magical archetypes are. Druids are all over the
> ->place as well. I find it amusing that through a wierd series of events I
> ->ended up on the board of directors as a founding member of a druidic
> ->religous group founded in NH.
>
> I, for one, would love to hear this story. Perhaps it would make
> an interesting SR adventure interpreted correctly.

David is not the only person interested in hearing about this one Mr. Collins.
Perhaps you could forward a bit of this tale to me as well... :)

-K
Message no. 22
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: My first magician
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 23:17:13 -0500
On Mon, 24 Aug 1998 14:34:43 -0700 Adam Getchell <acgetchell@*******.EDU>
writes:
>>How this could be turned into a Shadowrun. Well I suppose a religous
>>schism might not be as friendly thing as it was and could turn violent
>>with both factions hiring runners to bring down the other, but other
than
>>that nothing much comes to mind.

>Oh, the Ritual Sorcery that would fly before, during, and after such a
>split. What a great adventure idea!
>
>>Steve
>
>--Adam
<SNIP Sig>

You could have a Dog Shaman Lodge, a Cat Shaman Lodge, and a Rat Shaman
Lodge have it out between each other. Oh how the fur would fly ... =^.^=

It may be interesting actually to have two large Magical Groups with a
great deal of tension between them when a third player comes in and tries
to play one off the other by making it look like one pulling runs against
the other. Additionally, the third group could play on internal schisms
within the groups trying to further weaken both by causing them to
splinter (at the same time) in addition to rying to retaliate anainst
perceived slights. Of course if the either or both of the groups find
out what the third group's been up to, there'll be hell to pay! I think
major Magical groups reserve calling in ALL their members for Ritual
Sorcery for special occassions such as this ...

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

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Message no. 23
From: Andrew Gwilliam <andrew@********.NET.UK>
Subject: Re: My first magician
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 09:40:36 +0100
Duncan McNeill-Burton wrote:

> Pat Goodman didst sayeth:
>
> >>Or how's this...cut some corners and mix the stuff with Drano, or the 2060
> >>equivalent. It's a lot meaner, but it's cheaper, and should confuse the
> >>hell out of the coroner.
> >
> >Yeah, but that misses out on the "non-lethal response" aspect of the
> >character.
>
> That it does...but it was more of a tangential suggestion. Think of it as
> another on the list of 101 fun things to do with DMSO...if you're a
> psychotic killer.
>
> Later-
>
> Duncan McNeill-Burton
> -Tech Priest in Training
> -Violent Felon for Hire
> -Pipe-wielding Sociopath for Fun
> http://attila.stevens-tech.edu/~dmcneill
> "Your eyes shiver and you grit your teeth,
> You've sold you soul now cold blood's how you get relief."
> -Ice-T, The Syndicate

I prefer using gamma-scopaline, why kill when you can stun, disorientate and
then question them afterwards with a high degree of truth guaranteed due to the
truth serum capabilities.


KO
Message no. 24
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: My first magician
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 06:54:06 EDT
In a message dated 8/24/98 9:49:35 PM US Eastern Standard Time, remo@***.NET
writes:

> >> For real fun, try a DMSO\LSD cocktail. It will likely be a bit
> >> cheaper, and should serve as a non-magical version of that Chaos
> >> spell.
> >
> >Hyper works real good as well.-grin-
>
> But I don't want them moving around, Bai.

If you don't want them to ever move at all, do the following ... burst fire of
cocktail filled pellets, the first two contain DMSO, the third contains -MOTOR
OIL-, death is almost a certainty (I assigned a damage of 8D), onset is
usually a minute or so, and damage continues due to organ failure.

I pulled this on the characters about a year ago, they did not like it at all.
But they were fighting a rigger at the time, and motor oil is something he had
lots of.

-Herc
------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
Message no. 25
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: My first magician
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 06:58:16 EDT
In a message dated 8/24/98 10:07:59 PM US Eastern Standard Time, remo@***.NET
writes:

> >Or how's this...cut some corners and mix the stuff with Drano, or the 2060
> >equivalent. It's a lot meaner, but it's cheaper, and should confuse the
> >hell out of the coroner.
>
> Yeah, but that misses out on the "non-lethal response" aspect of the
> character.

You could always stick with just standard tranq /DMSO cocktails then. Modify
a pair of squirt guns so that they are wrist guns. I managed to beat one of
the pc mages (Grade 8 at the time, IIRC), with a non-initiate street mage who
decided that tossing mojo around a power site was stupid so she pump-faked
him. She would go through the motions of tossing a spell at him, he'd prep
for the incoming spell, and then she would shoot him with the wrist squirt.
She managed to shoot him 3 or 4 times, before the fight was over with, and she
did not die, and they eventually became pretty good friends.

-Herc
------ The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
Message no. 26
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: My first magician
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 07:16:47 EDT
In a message dated 8/24/98 11:43:16 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
baishen@**********.COM writes:

> > Or how's this...cut some corners and mix the stuff with Drano, or the 2060
> > equivalent. It's a lot meaner, but it's cheaper, and should confuse the
> > hell out of the coroner.
>
> That's evil. I like it.-grin-

You want something truly evil, use the liquid filled pellets again, fired on
Burst Fire, the first two contain DMSO, the third has Hydrogen Peroxide.

What do you think of it?

-Herc
------ The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
Message no. 27
From: Alfredo B Alves <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: My first magician)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 06:07:25 -0500
On Mon, 24 Aug 1998 23:08:43 -0700 Mongoose <evamarie@**********.net>
writes:
<SNIP>
> Having NEVER injected anything, (or in fact used many drugs with
noticable
>and recorded effect) I'm gonna ask an abstract question:
> Wouldn't the time required for circulation (30sec-3min, IIRC,
depending on
>injection point) delay impact of almost ANY blood transported (or to an
extent
>airborn) drug to the point where it would be usless as a "weapon" in
face to
>face confrontation? They would be fine for snipers, or subduing low
threat
>opponents, but when facing a tweeked out samuria with a gun, can you
really
>relly on your juice hitting his brain before his bullets hit yours?

What happens when you shoot the sam in with DMSO/* in the head/throat
area? Won't the delivery to the brain be damn near instant? If so, the
speed would be a matter of the evenness of the distribution.

<SNIP>
>Mongoose

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

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Message no. 28
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: My first magician)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 13:11:47 +0100
And verily, did Alfredo B Alves hastily scribble thusly...
|What happens when you shoot the sam in with DMSO/* in the head/throat
|area? Won't the delivery to the brain be damn near instant? If so, the
|speed would be a matter of the evenness of the distribution.

Only if you hit him in the carotid artery, and you don't need to inject it
you're using DMSO.... It has no other purpose in this situation other than
to carry stuff quickly through the skin into the blood supply.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 29
From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: My first magician)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 08:50:43 -0400
> > Having NEVER injected anything, (or in fact used many drugs with
> noticable
> >and recorded effect) I'm gonna ask an abstract question:
> > Wouldn't the time required for circulation (30sec-3min, IIRC,
> depending on
> >injection point) delay impact of almost ANY blood transported (or to
> an
> extent
> >airborn) drug to the point where it would be usless as a "weapon" in
> face to
> >face confrontation? They would be fine for snipers, or subduing low
> threat
> >opponents, but when facing a tweeked out samuria with a gun, can you
> really
> >relly on your juice hitting his brain before his bullets hit yours?
>
> What happens when you shoot the sam in with DMSO/* in the head/throat
> area? Won't the delivery to the brain be damn near instant? If so,
> the
> speed would be a matter of the evenness of the distribution.
>
Sorry I missed the beginning of this, and please ignore
if someone has made the point already but...

Not all chemical agents are delivered via the
bloodstream when injected. In fact the nastier chemical weapons are not.
There's a reason they call it NERVE gas. It hits your nerves. The
chemical is carried through the nervous system (remember its an
electrochemical system the hauls chemical transmitters up and down the
nerves.). This (obviously) is a hell of a lot faster than the blood
stream.
So you really can die in 10 seconds or so.
Message no. 30
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: My first magician
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 09:10:30 -0500
>> >Hyper works real good as well.-grin-
>>
>> But I don't want them moving around, Bai.
>
>If you don't want them to ever move at all, do the following ... burst
>fire of cocktail filled pellets, the first two contain DMSO, the third
>contains -MOTOR OIL-, death is almost a certainty (I assigned a damage
>of 8D), onset is usually a minute or so, and damage continues due to
>organ failure.

But I don't want them dead, either. It violates his personal beliefs about
the sanctity of life, for one. For another, if you make a run on a corp and
kill a lot of their people, they might just get pissed off and send more
after you; leave them alive but unconscious, and the corp will still be made
that you made the run against them, but won't be so inclined towards
revenge. For a third, as has been said many times, dead men tell no tales,
but live ones can be made downright talkative.

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 31
From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: My first magician)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 11:32:59 -0700
>> Wouldn't the time required for circulation (30sec-3min, IIRC,
>depending on
>>injection point) delay impact of almost ANY blood transported (or to an
>extent
>>airborn) drug to the point where it would be usless as a "weapon" in
>face to
>>face confrontation?

>What happens when you shoot the sam in with DMSO/* in the head/throat
>area? Won't the delivery to the brain be damn near instant? If so, the
>speed would be a matter of the evenness of the distribution.


That would depend on whether you hit a blood vessel that was carrying
blood to the brain. For obvious reasons, those tend to be buried as deeply
as possible. Their are some large veins (heartbound blood) near the surface,
but the arteries (outbound blood) tend to be deeper. (I think if you got
stuff in the eye, or up his nose, it would be very fast, yes.)
{This raises an interesting point; any toxins that affect the heart
probably would be quite swift in their effect. I think most nuerotoxins do
affect peripheral nerves as well as CNS, and could cause heart attack. Are
their any drugs known to cause heart failure through direct effect (not CNS
suppression)? The heart attack damage in Shadowtech (platelet factory) is
quite nasty. I wouldn't depend on a coagulant, but its a pretty sick idea,
and not hard to do.]
In any case, getting those hits would be a matter of skill, so should the
firearms test affect onset time of drugs delivered via gun-type weapon?
Also, do most folks stage damage from drug-guns up, or just apply the base
damage of the drug, if there are any net successes after dodging? We did, as
I figured staging represented better delivery, but it might make more sense to
use it to reduce onset time as above.

Mongoose
Message no. 32
From: bryan.covington@****.COM
Subject: Re: My first magician)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 12:46:43 -0400
> >What happens when you shoot the sam in with DMSO/* in the head/throat
> >area? Won't the delivery to the brain be damn near instant? If so,
> the
> >speed would be a matter of the evenness of the distribution.
>
> That would depend on whether you hit a blood vessel that was
> carrying
> blood to the brain. For obvious reasons, those tend to be buried as
> deeply
> as possible. Their are some large veins (heartbound blood) near the
> surface,
> but the arteries (outbound blood) tend to be deeper. (I think if you
> got
> stuff in the eye, or up his nose, it would be very fast, yes.)
>
Again assuming it was a blood distributed toxin.

> {This raises an interesting point; any toxins that affect the
> heart
> probably would be quite swift in their effect. I think most
> nuerotoxins do
> affect peripheral nerves as well as CNS, and could cause heart attack.
> Are
> their any drugs known to cause heart failure through direct effect
> (not CNS
> suppression)? The heart attack damage in Shadowtech (platelet
> factory) is
> quite nasty. I wouldn't depend on a coagulant, but its a pretty sick
> idea,
> and not hard to do.]
>
Here's a thought. Load a DMSO cocktail with a massive
amount of surgical coagulant. InstaStroke. I think I'd rather be shot.

> In any case, getting those hits would be a matter of skill, so
> should the
> firearms test affect onset time of drugs delivered via gun-type
> weapon?
> Also, do most folks stage damage from drug-guns up, or just apply
> the base
> damage of the drug, if there are any net successes after dodging? We
> did, as
> I figured staging represented better delivery, but it might make more
> sense to
> use it to reduce onset time as above.
>
There is no way to stage up the damage of the drug. It
will do what is supposed to, whether you hit him in the foot or in the
eye. Time however might matter. Since no hit locations exist, staging
could reduce onset time in the same manner as the extended tests
("taking the time") by using the listed onset time as a base and
dividing it by successes.
Message no. 33
From: Steve Collins <einan@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: My first magician
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 16:12:46 -0400
>In a message dated 8/24/1998 1:29:01 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
>fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US writes:
>
>>
>> ->Actually none of the magical archetypes are. Druids are all over the
>> ->place as well. I find it amusing that through a wierd series of events I
>> ->ended up on the board of directors as a founding member of a druidic
>> ->religous group founded in NH.
>>
>> I, for one, would love to hear this story. Perhaps it would make
>> an interesting SR adventure interpreted correctly.
>
>David is not the only person interested in hearing about this one Mr.
>Collins.
>Perhaps you could forward a bit of this tale to me as well... :)
>
>-K
>
ohhhhh Mr Collins what're you trying ta do make me feel old :)

I already sent it to the list :) retitled Witch Wars
Message no. 34
From: Duncan McNeill-Burton <dmcneill@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: My first magician
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 18:48:46 -0400
Mike Bobroff didst sayeth:

>In a message dated 8/24/98 11:43:16 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
>baishen@**********.COM writes:
>
>> > Or how's this...cut some corners and mix the stuff with Drano, or the
2060
>> > equivalent. It's a lot meaner, but it's cheaper, and should confuse
the
>> > hell out of the coroner.
>>
>> That's evil. I like it.-grin-
>
>You want something truly evil, use the liquid filled pellets again, fired
on
>Burst Fire, the first two contain DMSO, the third has Hydrogen Peroxide.


I like that. But why not just mix the DMSO with the peroxide? Saves
paintballs, since you only need to shoot one. Though with the silly new
dodging rules, having three paintballs full of fizzy death is more useful.
And shooting three of the mix means that the target won't get hit with just
the peroxide and merely end up pissed of and damp.

Later-

Duncan McNeill-Burton
-Tech Priest in Training
-Violent Felon for Hire
-Pipe-wielding Sociopath for Fun
http://attila.stevens-tech.edu/~dmcneill
"Your eyes shiver and you grit your teeth,
You've sold you soul now cold blood's how you get relief."
-Ice-T, The Syndicate
Message no. 35
From: Bai Shen <baishen@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: My first magician
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 23:02:07 -0400
> > > Or how's this...cut some corners and mix the stuff with Drano, or the 2060
> > > equivalent. It's a lot meaner, but it's cheaper, and should confuse the
> > > hell out of the coroner.
> > That's evil. I like it.-grin-
> You want something truly evil, use the liquid filled pellets again, fired on
> Burst Fire, the first two contain DMSO, the third has Hydrogen Peroxide.
> What do you think of it?

Dunno. I don't remember what the final effect of that is.
--
Bai Shen
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
http://www.series2000.com/users/baishen
UIN 3543257 (Don't ask to join if you aren't going to send me anything.)
Message no. 36
From: Andreas Hausjell <a.h.a@***.NET>
Subject: Re: My first magician
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 09:33:42 +0200
> > > > Or how's this...cut some corners and mix the stuff with Drano, or
the 2060
> > > > equivalent. It's a lot meaner, but it's cheaper, and should
confuse the
> > > > hell out of the coroner.
> > > That's evil. I like it.-grin-
> > You want something truly evil, use the liquid filled pellets again,
fired on
> > Burst Fire, the first two contain DMSO, the third has Hydrogen
Peroxide.
> > What do you think of it?
>

Try a cocktail of Hyper, kamikaze, viagra, aspirin, DMSO, whiskey and
coke. Lets await the side-effects.

---
Sent through Global Message Exchange - http://www.gmx.net
Message no. 37
From: Andreas Hausjell <a.h.a@***.NET>
Subject: Re: My first magician
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 16:28:13 +0200
> If you do need a combat skill, Unarmed makes more sense; patients are
not
> always co-operative.
>
> Mongoose
>
There is another positive point with the unarmed combat. You don't have to
carry a weapon with you.
Scapegoat
PS: alcohol is not the answer, but you can forget the question with alc.
---
Sent through Global Message Exchange - http://www.gmx.net
Message no. 38
From: Wiebke & Birger Timm <WiebkeT@********.DE>
Subject: Re: My first magician
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 15:12:37 +0200
Andreas Hausjell wrote:

> Try a cocktail of Hyper, kamikaze, viagra, aspirin, DMSO, whiskey and
> coke. Lets await the side-effects.

You forgot birth control pills and sleeping-pills...

Blix
Message no. 39
From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: My first magician
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 11:59:32 -0700
>>Considering that (whatever Mike might say in the BABY) 1 is totally
>>incompetant, you either don't have enough skill or don't need it at all
>>(your defaults could "fake it").
>
>No, a 1 isn't totally incompetent. Not having a skill is being totally
>incompetent. And I tend to disagree that defaulting to something on the
>skill web could "fake it" with a +4 to the TN. I tend to prefer a minimal
>skill in something to no skill at all; it's worked for me in a lot of games
>for a lot of years, so I see no reason to change it now.

Say you have a strength of 3 (supposedly average, but in many situations
not so
great).
You roll 3 dice in uarmed combat, normal TN 8. You'd likely get 1
succes, or none. 2 if you are lucky. You would bothc one time in 216.
Say you have unarmed skill at 1. You would roll one die in unrame
dcapmbat, plus (maybe) 1 combat pool. . You'd likely get 1 succes, or none.
2 if you are lucky. You woul bothc eithe 1 time in 6, or one in 36.

Given those results, I'd say
A) You can fake a skill of 1 OK, even if you are "average".
B) A skill of 1 is completely incompetant, given the chances of a botch.
C) Any skill level you can pick up for 1 karma doesn't really reflect
training; it reflects passing fancy

This may not be the role-played intention, but it is the numeric result.
I don't buy skills at 1, even with karma; I raise them to 2 right off, and use
those quite rarely until they hit 3. Fortunately, in SR3, this doesn't cost
quite as much (usually 2 karma less). YMMV. IMO, any skill where you have a
.5% chance of major mistake is still not truely "competant"- I have must
electroncis
(household) 3, because it's not funny when I goof (ZAP), so I don't do it 1 in
36 times. Its REALLY not funny when your "house" happens to have 3 phase 240
volt current.... Of course, I have been playing with elctricity since I was
10, so skill 3 is reasonable, even though I'm not a trained electircian. I
find I know enough to fix hardware in my computer, sometimes, but I'm
DEFINATELY "faking" that with a default (and it does take a long time).

I can't see any runner depending on rating 1 skills, or anybody having
them as
part of thier employment requirements

Mongoose
Message no. 40
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: My first magician
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 13:03:59 -0600
Mongoose wrote:
/
/ >No, a 1 isn't totally incompetent. Not having a skill is being totally
/ >incompetent. And I tend to disagree that defaulting to something on the
/ >skill web could "fake it" with a +4 to the TN. I tend to prefer a minimal
/ >skill in something to no skill at all; it's worked for me in a lot of games
/ >for a lot of years, so I see no reason to change it now.
/
/ This may not be the role-played intention, but it is the numeric result.
/ I don't buy skills at 1, even with karma; I raise them to 2 right off, and use
/ those quite rarely until they hit 3. Fortunately, in SR3, this doesn't cost
/ quite as much (usually 2 karma less). YMMV. IMO, any skill where you have a
/ .5% chance of major mistake is still not truely "competant"- I have must
/ electroncis
/ (household) 3, because it's not funny when I goof (ZAP), so I don't do it 1 in
/ 36 times. Its REALLY not funny when your "house" happens to have 3 phase 240
/ volt current.... Of course, I have been playing with elctricity since I was
/ 10, so skill 3 is reasonable, even though I'm not a trained electircian. I
/ find I know enough to fix hardware in my computer, sometimes, but I'm
/ DEFINATELY "faking" that with a default (and it does take a long time).

Remember, that the result of an "oops" is up to the GM. It can be bad
(you get elecricuted, resist damage), or it can be annoying (you short
out the lock, it's impossible to bypass now), or it can be humorous
(you're shocked and jump back 15 feet, leaving your shoes behind you.
Other than the fact that your hair is standing on end, you're fine.).

Given that my RL Computer B/R skill is a 1 doesn't stop me from
fiddling with my computer, I haven't killed it yet. Tho I did freak it
out when I reversed the connection to the hard drive I installed.

A skill of one doesn't mean doom. Go for the entertainment value :)

-David
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm

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