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Message no. 1
From: "XaOs [David Goth]" <xaos@*****.NET>
Subject: "My hands are registered as lethal weapons!" (was RE: Spell
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 00:25:47 -0500
> Possessing martial
> arts beyond
> a defined level also requires you to register too, even today...

The tone of this comment is not directed at you, Paul: Where the hell does
this idea come from? Just like in another thread, someone talks about boxers
having to register their hands as lethal weapons. Am I the only one who
thinks this sounds like BS?

I can see it in a movie, or a cartoon, but not in 'real life'?



-XaOs-
xaos@*****.net
-David Goth-
Message no. 2
From: Rick Musci <Chocobo219@***.COM>
Subject: Re: "My hands are registered as lethal weapons!" (was RE: Spell
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 02:11:16 EDT
In a message dated 10/5/98 10:29:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, xaos@*****.NET
writes:

> Paul: Where the hell does
> this idea come from? Just like in another thread, someone talks about
boxers
> having to register their hands as lethal weapons. Am I the only one who
> thinks this sounds like BS?
>
> I can see it in a movie, or a cartoon, but not in 'real life'?

Well, like it or not, its the truth. Black belts in martial arts are required
to register as lethal weapons in most urban areas in the U.S.A. They do have
reason to be, I'd just like to know what prompted the law.

Steel Katana
Message no. 3
From: Jett <zmjett@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: "My hands are registered as lethal weapons!" (was RE: Spell
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 03:01:54 -0400
Rick Musci wrote:
>
> In a message dated 10/5/98 10:29:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, xaos@*****.NET
> writes:
>
> > Paul: Where the hell does
> > this idea come from? Just like in another thread, someone talks about
> boxers
> > having to register their hands as lethal weapons. Am I the only one who
> > thinks this sounds like BS?
> >
> > I can see it in a movie, or a cartoon, but not in 'real life'?
>
> Well, like it or not, its the truth. Black belts in martial arts are required
> to register as lethal weapons in most urban areas in the U.S.A. They do have
> reason to be, I'd just like to know what prompted the law.
>
> Steel Katana

Doesn't surprise me. THese days, no one wants ANYONE to have anything
that could possibly be dangerous. In MA, you have to register pepper
spray. Forget getting a permit to carry a concealed weapon without a
drekload of paperwork, background check, etc. NOte that I'm a strong
proponent of the right to keep and bear arms, even if the amendment is
misinterpreted. I think it's everyone's right to be able to protect
themselves and their homes without the government butting in.


--Jett, who needs to stop drinking Surge and reading NRA pamphlets at
the same time.

<*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*>


"I'll make this clear, that I'm just here for backup. And to offer the
occasional advice or insult."
--Jett, on being an NPC

Behold the mighty sonic scream of the Jett!

http://www.scifi-fantasy.com/~zmjett/shadow.htm
Message no. 4
From: anakin <anakin@**.NET.AU>
Subject: Re: "My hands are registered as lethal weapons!" (was RE: Spell
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 20:49:13 +0000
Interesting point there, not something I have ever experienced here (Australia)
do any other countries have similar laws to that and do martial arts schools have
to register as well or just those who rank above a certain level. I know from
experience that having a black belt can mean a wide variety of things depending
on who taught the person.

Anakin

Rick Musci wrote:

> In a message dated 10/5/98 10:29:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, xaos@*****.NET
> writes:
>
> > Paul: Where the hell does
> > this idea come from? Just like in another thread, someone talks about
> boxers
> > having to register their hands as lethal weapons. Am I the only one who
> > thinks this sounds like BS?
> >
> > I can see it in a movie, or a cartoon, but not in 'real life'?
>
> Well, like it or not, its the truth. Black belts in martial arts are required
> to register as lethal weapons in most urban areas in the U.S.A. They do have
> reason to be, I'd just like to know what prompted the law.
>
> Steel Katana



--
Don't just do something- Stand There

All Pigs fed and ready to fly

Each day is better than the next!

ICQ# 12697398
Message no. 5
From: Sean McCrohan <mccrohan@*****.OIT.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: "My hands are registered as lethal weapons!" (was RE: Spell
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 07:48:22 -0400
Quoting XaOs [David Goth] (xaos@*****.NET):
> > Possessing martial
> > arts beyond
> > a defined level also requires you to register too, even today...
>
> The tone of this comment is not directed at you, Paul: Where the hell does
> this idea come from? Just like in another thread, someone talks about boxers
> having to register their hands as lethal weapons. Am I the only one who
> thinks this sounds like BS?

To my knowledge (that is to say, 'based on what my hapkido instructor
has told me'), the 'register your lethal hands' thing is a myth. However,
it /is/ true that a boxer, or an experienced martial artist, will be much
more likely to be prosecuted for battery (and, I suppose, might even be
charged with assault with a deadly weapon, though I don't know about that),
because in order to argue for self-defense, you have to be able to tell the
court 'I had to hurt him because I had a reasonable and valid fear of
death or grievous bodilly harm'. That's easy to do if you're overweight and
haven't exercised in ten years, hard to do if you're Evander Holyfield.
In general, someone who's a skilled fighter is expected to be able to
defend themselves and remove themselves from a situation with more control
and less force than someone who's untrained, and if they DO maul someone,
it's assumed that they did it because they WANTED to do it, not because
they had to.
On the bright side, being an expert can have some advantages.
"I was in fear for my life, your Honor, because in the position from
which he was choking me, I would have passed out within approximately
three and a half seconds if I had not taken immediate action. If he
had not let go immediately when I fell unconscious, brain damage or
death could result."

--Sean

--
Sean McCrohan (mccrohan@**.gatech.edu) | "He uses his folly as a stalking
Grad Student, Human-Computer Interaction | horse, and under the presentation
Georgia Institute of Technology | of that he shoots his wit."
http://www.lcc.gatech.edu/~smccrohan | _As You Like It_, Act 5 Sc 4
Message no. 6
From: Sean McCrohan <mccrohan@*****.OIT.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: "My hands are registered as lethal weapons!" (was RE: Spell
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 07:56:31 -0400
Quoting anakin (anakin@**.NET.AU):
> Interesting point there, not something I have ever experienced here (Australia)
> do any other countries have similar laws to that and do martial arts schools have
> to register as well or just those who rank above a certain level. I know from
> experience that having a black belt can mean a wide variety of things depending
> on who taught the person.

A VERY wide variety of things. In some arts, it represents a year
and a half of training, in others, five to ten. In Kendo, for instance,
which admittedly is a weapon art, and admittedly doesn't use 'belts' (but
does use ranks, and gives them more or less the same names as most Japanese
hand-and-foot arts), shodan (equivilant to a first-dan blackbelt) means
you know the basics, and now you can start the REAL art. Even that takes
one-and-a-half to two years to reach.
'Black belt' isn't the end...it's the beginning. Everything before
that, in most arts, are student ranks. After that, you're a practicioner
in your own right, but there's still PLENTY of variation in skill levels :)

BTW, I'm still disbelieving this 'register your hands' thing. Can
anyone provide some actual references, like specific passages in state laws?

--Sean

--
Sean McCrohan (mccrohan@**.gatech.edu) | "He uses his folly as a stalking
Grad Student, Human-Computer Interaction | horse, and under the presentation
Georgia Institute of Technology | of that he shoots his wit."
http://www.lcc.gatech.edu/~smccrohan | _As You Like It_, Act 5 Sc 4
Message no. 7
From: Fixer <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: "My hands are registered as lethal weapons!" (was RE: Spell
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:30:44 -0400
On Tue, 6 Oct 1998, XaOs [David Goth] wrote:

->> Possessing martial
->> arts beyond
->> a defined level also requires you to register too, even today...
->
->The tone of this comment is not directed at you, Paul: Where the hell does
->this idea come from? Just like in another thread, someone talks about boxers
->having to register their hands as lethal weapons. Am I the only one who
->thinks this sounds like BS?
->
->I can see it in a movie, or a cartoon, but not in 'real life'?

It's a fact. I have a friend who has done it. Thankfully, I've
never had 'official' training from him, so I've never had to register.

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 8
From: "XaOs [David Goth]" <xaos@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: "My hands are registered as lethal weapons!" (was RE: Spell
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 11:51:17 -0500
> It's a fact. I have a friend who has done it. Thankfully, I've
> never had 'official' training from him, so I've never had to register.

That's funny. One of the typical evidences of an urban legend. "A friend has
done it." In other words, second hand reports with no substantiation. Ever
consider that he was BS'ing you? Have you seen his registration papers? I
wonder if it's something that they give you like a drivers liscense? Or is
it just filed away in some courthouse in case you happen to need it? I
suppose it be a lot like your registration for a pistol or whatever. Did
your friend get a serial number tattooed on his hands?

Wait! I think I saw that in a movie once. This guy came out of a freezer on
a motorcycle with something on the fingers of both of his hands. I think it
said "M-E-A-T L-O-A-F".



-XaOs-
xaos@*****.net
-David Goth-
Message no. 9
From: "XaOs [David Goth]" <xaos@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: "My hands are registered as lethal weapons!" (was RE: Spell
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 11:55:31 -0500
> Well, like it or not, its the truth. Black belts in martial arts
> are required
> to register as lethal weapons in most urban areas in the U.S.A.
> They do have
> reason to be, I'd just like to know what prompted the law.

No, actually they have reason to be careful when defending themselves.

Fact 1: Black belts are HIGHLY varied in the qualifications needed to be
given one. What community is going to try to establish legal standards for
them?

Fact 2: Many martial arts do not issue belts, although they may be
exceedingly skillful.

Fact 3: It is possible to receive "unofficial" training (whatever that
means), and no governing body will ever know. (What, when you get in a
fight, do they test you then and force you to register your body parts if
you're too good?)

The whole idea is simply ludicrous.



-XaOs-
xaos@*****.net
-David Goth-
Message no. 10
From: Micheal Feeney <Starrngr@***.COM>
Subject: Re: "My hands are registered as lethal weapons!" (was RE: Spell
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:22:55 EDT
In a message dated 98-10-06 12:57:19 EDT, you write:

<< Wait! I think I saw that in a movie once. This guy came out of a freezer on
a motorcycle with something on the fingers of both of his hands. I think it
said "M-E-A-T L-O-A-F". >>

That was Eddie, in the Rocky Horror Picture show, who was played by Meat Loaf
himself, the rock star, proud artist of "Bat out of Hell". Its cause Meat had
that tattoed on his hands already, not because it was part of the movie.

<<Mike now determines to get off this topic before grid sec lauches that Carp
FOBS on him....>>
Message no. 11
From: Brian and Shannon Seagroves <bcsnskm@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: "My hands are registered as lethal weapons!" (was RE: Spell
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:46:31 -0000
-----Original Message-----
From: Shadowrun Discussion [mailto:SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET] On Behalf
Of XaOs [David Goth]
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 4:56 PM
To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
Subject: Re: "My hands are registered as lethal weapons!" (was RE: Spell
L...



.

Fact 1: Black belts are HIGHLY varied in the qualifications needed to be
given one. What community is going to try to establish legal standards for
them?
Fayetteville North Carolina for one
.

Fact 3: It is possible to receive "unofficial" training (whatever that
means), and no governing body will ever know. (What, when you get in a
fight, do they test you then and force you to register your body parts if
you're too good?)
No but if you are a Martial arts instructor in town they will figure it
out( :

The whole idea is simply ludicrous.
Wish it was...I feel like a real idiot when I have to inform someone that
"I am a martial arts instructor, my hands are deadly weapons"

--
Brian Seagroves

" No Ma'am, it's not a beenie, it's a beret"
Message no. 12
From: Brian and Shannon Seagroves <bcsnskm@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: "My hands are registered as lethal weapons!" (was RE: Spell
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:56:44 -0000
-----Original Message-----
From: Shadowrun Discussion [mailto:SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET] On Behalf
Of XaOs [David Goth]
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 4:51 PM
To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
Subject: Re: "My hands are registered as lethal weapons!" (was RE: Spell
Legality Ratings [was Upcoming Releases])


That's funny. One of the typical evidences of an urban legend. "A friend has
done it." In other words, second hand reports with no substantiation. Ever
consider that he was BS'ing you? Have you seen his registration papers? I
wonder if it's something that they give you like a drivers liscense? Or is
it just filed away in some courthouse in case you happen to need it? I
suppose it be a lot like your registration for a pistol or whatever. Did
your friend get a serial number tattooed on his hands?
Actually...it depends on the jurisdiction you are in...in Fayetteville for
example...I have to carry a standard concealed weapons permit..while in Bath
Maine I was just required to register at the local police station..

--
Brian Seagroves
"No Ma'am, It's not a beenie,it's a Beret"
Message no. 13
From: Adam Getchell <acgetchell@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: "My hands are registered as lethal weapons!" (was RE: Spell
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 11:53:06 -0700
>> Possessing martial
>> arts beyond
>> a defined level also requires you to register too, even today...

I'm not registered.

>The tone of this comment is not directed at you, Paul: Where the hell does
>this idea come from? Just like in another thread, someone talks about boxers
>having to register their hands as lethal weapons. Am I the only one who
>thinks this sounds like BS?

Yes, it sounds like a marketing ploy.

>I can see it in a movie, or a cartoon, but not in 'real life'?

It is/was true in Japan.

> -XaOs-

--Adam

acgetchell@*******.edu
"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability in the opponent." --Sun Tzu
Message no. 14
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: "My hands are registered as lethal weapons!" (was RE: Spell
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:04:38 +0200
According to Sean McCrohan, at 7:48 on 6 Oct 98, the word on the street was...

> To my knowledge (that is to say, 'based on what my hapkido instructor
> has told me'), the 'register your lethal hands' thing is a myth.

Doesn't it depend on the definition of what a permit is needed for? If the
permit says "weapons" then you look up the definition of "weapon" and
see
if it includes items that are part of the human body...

(Of course, lawyers will likely argue over this, but this is the way I'd
resolve it...)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Love don't live here anymore.
She had to move out when Cobain shot himself.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

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